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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2013 : 14:20:06
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Hi all
Hi all,
I humbly request that people on this discussion forum would stop talking about their specific symptoms as doing so sends out a giant meme and acts as a powerful nocebo to those who read such posts. SteveO, in his book, warned against joining online discussion forums which discusses symptoms as it is counter productive and impedes recovery.
Don't talk about your symptoms, talk about what is going on in your life.
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“Living up to an image that you have of yourself or that
other people have of you is inauthentic living – another unconscious role the ego plays.” -- Ekhart Tolle |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2013 : 14:29:44
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| If the purpose of the forum is in part for people including newcomers to get help and to understand whether their symptoms might be psychogenic in origin, how can you ask people not to discuss their symptoms? That doesn't seem fair, to me anyhow. |
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Birdie78
Germany
145 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2013 : 14:45:57
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I fully agree in that for many TMSers the symptoms are contagious and therefore can comprehend your wish, I experienced that on my own (getting additional symptoms being described here).
But: when not to talk about the concrete manifestations of TMS in this forum, where else? I also found the benefits (people who are in the same boat and have had the same symptoms and were able to overcame then) overweights the danger of nocebo.
Anyway, for people susceptible to nocebos these are lurking nearly everywhere: no matter if you're at the hairstylist or watching TV or talking to some realtives suffering from bad pains and hearing that their doctors recommended surgery. I am very sensitive to "pain storys" and being frightened by them way too easy. But I guess, at least in my case, learning how to overcome the fear of catching another bad symptom will benefit the healing- and learning process much more than avoiding every possible nocebo.
And I find this forum to be very different from other forums in which merely the symptoms are discussed. That's why I left the firbomyalgia-forum because I couldn't stand the "I have this and this and this pain", "well, I have this and this symptom, too! Which kind of medication can help?"-discussions any longer and that really left me with a feeling of helplesness (omg, I have a crippling and baffling disease!).
I further fully agree that the symptoms should not be discussed on their own without discussing the context and getting to the very roots of the TMS (and I guess that's exactly what we're doing here and what makes a big difference to other symptom-related forums)
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
Edited by - Birdie78 on 06/11/2013 14:48:55 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2013 : 19:18:47
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If you have symptoms go to a doctor. We are not doctors. SteveO lists dozens of TMS symptoms in his book.
*************************
“Living up to an image that you have of yourself or that
other people have of you is inauthentic living – another unconscious role the ego plays.” -- Ekhart Tolle |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2013 : 19:47:47
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Shawn,
You must realize your request isn't going to fly. I think the real question is why you're putting up such a post since your have to understand it's not practical...
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2013 : 19:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
If you have symptoms go to a doctor. We are not doctors. SteveO lists dozens of TMS symptoms in his book.
Well Ace1 is of course, and Dr. Z., but the bigger point is that even without being able to diagnose, experienced people here can ask questions and give guidance to people to whom the concepts may be new. In fact this is half of what goes on here, I would say, and it seems appropriate to me. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2013 : 06:14:29
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The reason I put up the post, Art, is that SteveO states in his book: Don't join an online forum that discusses symptoms as it makes matters worse. He further states that talking about symptoms is itself TMSing. Ace1 and Dr. Z, although doctors, cannot diagnose you over the internet.
*************************
“Living up to an image that you have of yourself or that
other people have of you is inauthentic living – another unconscious role the ego plays.” -- Ekhart Tolle |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2013 : 06:32:02
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| I cannot imagine a TMS forum where people especially newcomers do not discuss their symptoms. Shawn if nocebo is an issue for you maybe you need to avoid those threads? |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2013 : 10:48:22
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Hello Shawn,
The forums that steve talks about are the one that willow in their suffering and have no clue about the basic cause. In this forum, this is not the case. You actually are not supposed to shy away from something that is scary to you bc that only sensitizes you more. You want to be able to encounter it and it not cause you grief. You have to be aware on how it affects you going into it. The awareness is key.
In the beginning you may want to do this deconditioning process in increments or slowly. I think the more you "restrict" yourself to life the more it will affect you in the long run. Remember it is really the intensity of your thinking that is the basic problem, not really anything around you. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2013 : 15:51:58
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
The reason I put up the post, Art, is that SteveO states in his book: Don't join an online forum that discusses symptoms as it makes matters worse. He further states that talking about symptoms is itself TMSing. Ace1 and Dr. Z, although doctors, cannot diagnose you over the internet.
*************************
“Living up to an image that you have of yourself or that
other people have of you is inauthentic living – another unconscious role the ego plays.” -- Ekhart Tolle
HI Shawn,
I can't say it any better than Ace, And of course no one is diagnosing anyone. People come here because they are suffering. The first question they almost always have is, I have XYZ symptom. Has anyone here had the same symptom and treated it successfully as TMS I just don't see a problem with that. It's how I got here, and countless others. You'd be restricting newcomers to abstract concepts that wouldn't have much meaning.
FWIW, I generally urge people to get a medical opinion first and foremost. It's Sarno's first rule, and one we should all heed. |
Edited by - art on 06/12/2013 15:52:45 |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 14:13:14
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Shawn:
I generally agree with Peter although obsessing about symptoms is a dead end. It is important to understand that TMS isn’t just about back pain and stiff necks. It is also important to understand that once you are convinced that a symptom is being caused by emotional stress it is often replaced by another symptom. After joining this forum because of my chronic back pain I had an accident and recall that while in the emergency room I noticed my back was completely pain free. This was proof that there was nothing wrong with my back (something that I strongly acknowledged) . However, shortly afterward I had intense groin pain which was completely new and had nothing to do with my accident. Several months passed before I realized, helped no doubt by reading about symptoms on this forum, that this new pain was also TMS.
PS: Great ET quote!
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 14:43:19
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Newbies are always going to need help solving symptoms. That's always where overcoming anxiety starts. So, asking new posters not to talk about their symptoms is silly.
If it's a "nocebo" for anyone at this point, they should't come here.
The end of symptom-discussion is the finish line... not the starting line.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 14:55:37
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Bryan, just curious as to why keep on calling TMS "anxiety"? This is the TMS Help Forum and TMS covers a lot of other symptoms besides anxiety. You mentioned you had been to all the other "anxiety" boards, how did you happen to settle in at the TMS board.? Wouldn't it be more logical for you to discuss anxiety at an anxiety forum, that focuses on that topic since it's your issue? Just honestly wondering and not trying to start anything new with you.
Best wishes on your ongoing TMS recovery. Sorry to hear you're haveing a rough week, Happy Father's Day!
Cheers,
tt/lsmft
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 18:11:37
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Bryan, just curious as to why keep on calling TMS "anxiety"? This is the TMS Help Forum and TMS covers a lot of other symptoms besides anxiety. You mentioned you had been to all the other "anxiety" boards, how did you happen to settle in at the TMS board.? Wouldn't it be more logical for you to discuss anxiety at an anxiety forum, that focuses on that topic since it's your issue? Just honestly wondering and not trying to start anything new with you.
Best wishes on your ongoing TMS recovery. Sorry to hear you're haveing a rough week, Happy Father's Day!
Cheers,
tt/lsmft
TMS almost always involves some manifestation of stress, which broadly speaking means anxiety. Many professionals now refer to what sarno calls TMS as stress disorder, stress illness, psychophysiologic disorder, autonomic overload disorder (which means stress)... |
Edited by - art on 06/14/2013 18:12:26 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 18:45:59
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| We need an apocalyptic battle once and for all between the Sarno and Weekes teams to settle the never-ending debate. The losing side has to go to another forum. Agreed? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 19:25:21
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quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
We need an apocalyptic battle once and for all between the Sarno and Weekes teams to settle the never-ending debate. The losing side has to go to another forum. Agreed?
I've got a better idea, dump sarno altogether and call it the Weekes Board or the Ace Board or the Hillbilly Board? What's TENSION got to do with it anyway.
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 19:30:36
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quote:
Originally posted by art
TMS almost always involves some manifestation of stress, which broadly speaking means anxiety. Many professionals now refer to what sarno calls TMS as stress disorder, stress illness, psychophysiologic disorder, autonomic overload disorder (which means stress)...
As usual, Art nails it.
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 19:41:40
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More "mental stress" in my life....more pain and symptoms for me. TMS is the term used to describe the process of physical manifestations from some sort of repressed emotional stimulus, is it not?
Stress, fear or anger ( or whatever negativity ) is the input.....and TMS is the output..yes?
So it's easy to see why people refer to it as anxiety......I can definitely relate to that.......I'll be joining team anxiety.....which is stupid to have to choose when it's really the same thing.
Let me get my dueling glove.
or we could finish this like real men.......2 days of drinking and arm wrestling.
TT......I know this is a crazy suggestion and I'm likely to be ridiculed for the rest of my life...BUT.....could tension be interlinked with anxiety??????? Just maybe?
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Edited by - Darko on 06/14/2013 19:45:37 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 19:45:20
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| Well I guess it's the party atmosphere that keeps 'em coming back. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 19:48:52
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quote:
I've got a better idea, dump sarno altogether and call it the Weekes Board or the Ace Board or the Hillbilly Board? What's TENSION got to do with it anyway.
what a load of garbage!
I prefer "Darko's forum of infinite wisdom and awesomeness"....has a nice ring to it.....and my ego approves.
D
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Edited by - Darko on 06/14/2013 19:50:07 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 19:50:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Darko
TT......I know this is a crazy suggestion and I'm likely to be ridiculed for the rest of my life...BUT.....could tension be interlinked with anxiety??????? Just maybe?
Darko, why don't you look it up in your sarno and tell us what he has to say about it, I'm going down to the hot-tub, to arm wrestle with some babes. |
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