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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
 Posted - 05/06/2013 : 16:16:29
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The more I learn about TMS / MBS, the more I recognize it in other people around me. I don't think I am imagining it, I might not be right in all cases but in some it is so obvious. I find it frustrating sometimes that many of them reject the idea in their particular case, although I can fully understand why. In a surprising low number of cases it is plain disbelief in the theory, in others it is either some sort of defense for not having to deal with the things they are really bothered about or the believe that they are not emotionally bothered. The funny thing is that most of them believe that in my case TMS could be true, but stay convinced that in their particular case it must be structural. I love the moments of doubt in their eyes though when I connect the start of their symptoms to a certain event in their lives :)
My urge to convince people has become smaller, as it is with people who just quit smoking trying to talk others out of it, but it tends to rise when people I suspect highly start to complain to me about their unexplainable pains and won't accept my opinion on the matter, instead they run around in the usual circles (pills, chiropractors, physiotherapists etc.) without any improvement.
What are your success rates with this? I believe all one can do is plant some seeds and hope one day a few of them germinate. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2013 : 16:50:56
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| I know exactly what you mean, gigalos. When a doctor diagnosed me with fibromyalgia 4 years ago, I joined a fibromyalgia support forum. I really did not know what this was at that time. Within 2 months, I realized that these people were all hysterical. They were constantly running to all sorts of doctors, taking unbelievable amounts of strong medications, and getting more blood tests almost every week. They also regarded themselves as a select club of individuals who had the misfortune of being in constant pain and their constant lament was "nobody understands what I go through!!". I said screw that. Then I found Dr. Sarno and almost immediately realized that I had TMS. Of course those are the worst cases. In real life, we see less serious cases all the time. I think that most people are really resistant to the idea that they have TMS. I think a lot of people, including myself, know deep inside that they have emotional problems. But we think that, since these only cause emotional pain, we can live with it although it causes us some consternation. However, more people are coming to see that the body and mind don't make much of a distinction between physical and emotional pain. I for one, became much more motivated to recover from my emotional issues when I realized that this was causing me pain that was indistinguishable from physical pain. Surprise, surprise!! However, most people will stay in denial if they can. I have never been successful convincing other than 1 or 2 people that they might consider that they have TMS. I keep tyring because those 1 or 2 people are worth it. |
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Sam908
70 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2013 : 18:15:27
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| My success rate in this department has been dismal. Like yourself, I see TMS all around me, but experience has taught me not to mention it. The two folks who introduced me to Dr. Sarno's books are presently suffering excruciating TMS pain. When I remind them that it might be TMS, they adamantly reject the suggestion, both of them taking the position that while TMS is quite real, their situations are not TMS, but structural (though the doctors have stated otherwise) and require surgery. |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2013 : 20:32:39
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
... I joined a fibromyalgia support forum...
Chickenbone:
Do you think that FM (fibromyalgia) is a real disease or is it only a diagnosis for those with a lot of unexplained symptoms? Could it be a separate, more serious form of TMS? There don't seem to be many FMers on this forum who have been successful using Sarno's ideas. |
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 07:20:42
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I believe I had what could have been thought of as fibro. I had extreme chest/rib/back/neck/hip pains, was tired all the time. Also hysterical.
My brother and mom had suggested Sarno to me. The tms idea was great for me but now my brother and mom obviously have their own TMS stuff that they reject. They both agree I have TMS but not them.
I do not try to convince anyone anymore. A part of our personality's wants to help these people but we must understand it would probably hurt us more. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 07:41:52
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| I think that Fibromyalgia is the worst form of TMS, kind of like a "whole body" TMS. I know that not everyone is like me, but I went from a diagnosis of fibromyalgia to almost complete freedom from pain in about 3 years, with fits and starts. I still have a lot issues to work on, because I am still prone to developing chronic pain - I have that personality. I now have some effective tools to keep it at bay while I working on the underlying issues. So I consider myself living proof that it can be done. Recently, medical science, in their infinite wisdom, declared fibromyalgia an autoimmune disease instead of just a collection of symptoms. |
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GTfan
USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 08:52:46
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Well, I had posted a bunch of stuff on a health forum trying to help others that were going through groin pain like I have. Apparently, all my posts were deleted and I recieved a message telling me to please follow forum rules and not to promote books, blah blah blah. Now its not letting me log in, so I guess I got banned.
Its just unbelievable how unreceptive people are to the idea of TMS.
You’ll fall down, you stumble, you land square on your face. And every time that happens, you get back on your feet. You get up just as fast as you can, no matter how many times you need to do it |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 09:23:37
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| Gtfan many forums are simply a front end to clinics and methods. They are simply used as an advertisement tool. I think I know the forum you are referring to and I am not surprised. |
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 11:02:28
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Thanx for the responses guys, I see I am not the only one experiencing it.
The best arguments I use..
- "Ever had a headache from stress or other emotional issues? Ever heard about people having a stiff and painful neck or shoulders? Ever experienced pain in your gut from it? Ever heard about people developing ulcers from stress?? Well, if the mind can do all that, why can't it cause other discomforts as well??"
- the Sarno argument about specialist being unable to distinguish between MRI's of people with and without back pain.
- My own story so far...
- asking people when they got a symptom and let them think about what happened in their life at that time.
any others?
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 11:26:19
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From what I read in SteveO's book, Dr. Sarno actually recommended against trying to tell anyone and convince them of what they have. Someone needs to be seeking an explanation before they will be willing to listen to one. My wife has TMS and sees my progress right in front of her eyes but is completely unwilling, thus far, to consider it might apply to her as well even though I have tried explaining it.
In short, as much as I would like to help others, I don't try telling anyone about TMS unless they are willing to listen and/or ask me what I've done. |
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KristenG
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 11:54:59
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Ditto what all of you have said. My boyfriend believes whole-heartly that TMS is my problem, but when I point it out in him, it is always structural. I was really getting frustrated with him for a while but decided to just let it go. The one time I almost had him was when he used the placebo effect as a reason why spontaneous healing can occur in people. I asked him if he really believed that. He replied that he did. I said then why is it so difficult to think the opposite is true (nocebo)? If the mind can make it can make it go away, why couldn't it bring on pain just as easily. He didn't have any answer for that. That was the day I decided to let it go and let him think about it for a while.
I was thinking recently how it has become so much easier to recognize TMS in others. As tempted as I have been, I never mention it. It is like anything else, you can't make someone heal until they are ready. You have to open to the idea.
Kristen
Worry is the misuse of imagination. |
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apace41
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 12:33:30
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quote:
Originally posted by icelikeaninja
A part of our personality's wants to help these people but we must understand it would probably hurt us more.
I think ice makes a great point here. Why are we compelled to try to convince others that they are suffering from TMS when they don't want to be convinced? The goodist personality? Something more base, i.e., wanting someone closer to us than a message board to understand and "get it?" Regardless, the reasons may or may not be the "right" ones and may or may not help us or hurt us in the longer run.
Andy |
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 12:42:28
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hmmm, I guess you have a point there. I know I am most open to things I discover/find out myself. It takes a lot of dead ends and fall backs to finally accept someone else's opinion.
I like the pla-/nocebo argument. I'll add it to my list in case somebody sincerely asks me about TMS. |
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apace41
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 12:58:22
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quote:
Originally posted by gigalos
hmmm, I guess you have a point there. I know I am most open to things I discover/find out myself. It takes a lot of dead ends and fall backs to finally accept someone else's opinion.
I like the pla-/nocebo argument. I'll add it to my list in case somebody sincerely asks me about TMS.
I suppose my view, Gigalos, would be that throwing the idea out there to someone to see if they have interest is a worthwhile endeavor. If you really have to "sell" someone, it probably isn't in either of your best interests.
My opinion only (of course).
Andy |
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bobspez
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 13:08:29
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I actually reponded to your ehealth forum post, but when I went back your post was gone. I bought the Sarno Divided Mind book because of your post, then found his youtube videos and this forum... Funny that none of the posters there who were pushing supplements got banned.
Bob
quote:
Originally posted by GTfan
Well, I had posted a bunch of stuff on a health forum trying to help others that were going through groin pain like I have. Apparently, all my posts were deleted and I recieved a message telling me to please follow forum rules and not to promote books, blah blah blah. Now its not letting me log in, so I guess I got banned.
Its just unbelievable how unreceptive people are to the idea of TMS.
You’ll fall down, you stumble, you land square on your face. And every time that happens, you get back on your feet. You get up just as fast as you can, no matter how many times you need to do it
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 13:16:59
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quote:
Originally posted by apace41
quote:
Originally posted by icelikeaninja
A part of our personality's wants to help these people but we must understand it would probably hurt us more.
I think ice makes a great point here. Why are we compelled to try to convince others that they are suffering from TMS when they don't want to be convinced? The goodist personality? Something more base, i.e., wanting someone closer to us than a message board to understand and "get it?" Regardless, the reasons may or may not be the "right" ones and may or may not help us or hurt us in the longer run.
Andy
agree, interesting question to ask myself. I must say I felt some tension at the times I tried to convince someone. I think it was fear or anger, or both.. good point
I also agree that the person in need of the TMS diagnosis may be pointed to the TMS possibility, but needs to put his own energy in convincing himself whether it is what he is suffering from, not mine. |
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apace41
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2013 : 14:23:55
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Sort of like:
"You can lead a TMS sufferer to his inner child, but you can't make him engage."
Or something like that.
Andy |
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cakeflowfatt
28 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2013 : 15:22:30
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I see it in many people
Just this past week my coworker called in because of his back
he has it periodically. This particular time he was flying in 2 days with his family to his son's wedding in the Carribean.
He is the alpha male type so he was doing everything for the trip. Even putting together trip packets for everyone (passports, copies of papers etc)
I don't bother to discuss TMS with him. Ben working a long time with him and some people you just know how they would react.
I have mentioned and loaned Sarno's book to others. Most have been the 'Thanks but I got the surgery types'
CFF
-Trying to forgive, let go, sleep, and make my spoiled inner child grow up |
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2013 : 08:12:41
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I believe I remember SteveO saying something about this, where the TMS message is simply too threatening to people's egos for them to accept it. I think a lot of the times people just want to be heard. I see this as being true for most of the Fibromaylgia people, as well as myself. I had doctors tell me that my symptoms were probably psychosomatic before I heard about TMS, but I found this to be very frustrating. I never got the sense that these doctors understood what I was going through. The only reason I think I actually gave TMS a try was because a friend of mine reviewed my entire medical history, and found a bunch of success stories online that were very similar to what I was going through. I felt like she understood my symptoms, so I was able to lower my barriers. In the end, I really needed someone to understand what I was going through. It is amazing what simply listening to what a person has been going through can do to making them more open to TMS.
My Video Success Story
www.thankyoudrsarno.org
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2013 : 09:08:10
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I believe that SteveO actually coined the word "TRACORDIFICATION", about being listened, which is pretty cool. Here's a link to a good TMS discussion from the wiki:
http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/seeking-the-grail.529/ |
Edited by - tennis tom on 05/11/2013 09:15:00 |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2013 : 10:45:07
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Tom, that's a great link. Cheers for posting.
Gigalos, I completely understand this urge having passed through a brief evangelical phase but it has completely faded. I still see it in folk but pass on the attempts to share. Some people are more open than others and with them I'll chat about emotions and stress. I find most are amenable to the idea that we all hold tension somewhere but I don't stray much farther than that. |
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Topic |
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Selling the idea of TMS
