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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
 Posted - 03/27/2013 : 17:57:45
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| Your welcome chickenbone. Keep working , but please be patient. If I expected to get better in the time frame your looking at, I would have never recovered. Trust me, if I heard you were perfect by now, I would be suspicious. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 18:02:06
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Rik,
People forget things all the time. Names, dates, directions. If the mind was wired for infinite memory, we'd have photographic memories.
Use it or lose it is real for most people, despite your example of muscle memory.
There's also part of the equation where we replace the association with something else.
So, I don't really see any real-world evidence that we're permanently hard-wired, either.
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kalo
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 18:35:47
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The trick is how do you unlock the unconcious to come to the surface..
I know what bothers me conciously, but, unconcious, I don't know...
Ugh, back to the OCD going around and around...
Kalo |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 18:54:05
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| Thanks, Dr. Alexander, For the first time in a long time, I feel that perhaps psychotherapy has something to offer me. In the past, before reading about the recent advances in neuroscience and the discovery of "neuroplasticity" of the brain, I thought that these neural circuits laid down by my early life experiences were unchangeable. I didn't think psychotherapy could help much because, although I would have a understanding and knowledgeable person to relate with, these memories couldn't be manipulated. I am very encouraged reading about EMDR and Coherence Therapy. I read several books about the recent advances in Neuroscience before reading your book and information on EMDR. I also read on your site the introduction to Coherence Therapy. They all seem to be very much in sync with the recent scientific advances. It made a lot of sense to me. Of course, I have some concerns like getting a therapist with whom I can relate and who has a good understanding of the topic. Perhaps I can do some phone sessions first and that can help me to decide if it will be worth it to travel for more intense therapy. |
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 23:25:37
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Rik- I find myself oscillating between just wanting to ignore many of your posts, and feeling the need to respond simply because other people are reading them. I fear that much of what you have to say is potentially harmful to others, as it is so loaded with cynicism and dismissal of anything which is outside your range of experience or knowledge set- as such, I feel compelled to comment, not because I think it has any chance of helping you, but it may help others. As an example, you state that becoming aware of past hurts is merely a distraction and will stall people’s recovery. I wonder how recovered you are? Do you still experience pain (physical or emotional), or has your approach got you to a pain free place? A great many people (both on and off this forum) have found psychological peace and a recovery from pain by doing exactly what you call a distraction. I have seen many of these people in my work, as did Sarno, Steve O, Nicole, etc, etc. Each day of my working life, I see people who are creating much better lives for themselves (and ultimately for their kids as well) by exploring their past experiences, and then undergoing processes which alleviates the emotional pain. This is a common and normal experience for therapists who use particular transformative approaches (but not part of the normal experience for psychologists who stick with counteracting therapies, such as CBT and its progeny- perhaps this is you?).
I am also an enthusiastic follower of Echart Tolle, and consider him to be just the most recent of enlightened beings who have been reiterating the same messages for eons. However, I am yet to meet a person (not one) who has become enlightened (as evidenced, in part, by being totally free of emotional and physical pain) as a result of reading one of his books. The enlightenment, which is the natural conclusion to living fully in the present, does not come about as a result of reading or following other people’s teachings, including Tolle’s. I have certainly seen ‘the perennial philosophy’ lighten people’s burdens (my own included), but I have never seen it result in someone becoming enlightened and ego free (and problem free) as Tolle etc appears to be. Rare people like Tolle arrive at this place via their own unique experiences in life, not through following a guru or reading a book (not that reading his books are useless- they aren’t, but they just wont result in what he has).
What I have seen repeatedly, however, is people succeeding in the far more modest goal of becoming pain free (mostly, or entirely) and (mostly, or entirely) free of psychological pain which has dogged them for their lives. It is not only possible, but it happens on a regular basis when people undergo processes which facilitate this progression. You want to call such successes a ‘placebo effect’, however this only highlights your own lack of understanding of mind/body issues, as well as your own emotional issues which manifest as cynicism and denial. I don’t have a problem with you being where you are at in your life at this moment (its your journey, not mine), but as stated, I do have a concern for the impact which this has on other people. If my recovery from 18 years of TMS pain is a placebo, then I say ‘bravo! Bring on placebos’, and perhaps others can be so lucky so as to experience their own ‘placebo effect’ (which, by the way, don’t last- I have now been pain free for around 13 years- pretty good placebo effect- ditto for my and Sarno’s patients who get and stay better).
Are people really condemned to be scared of black dogs for their whole life? I can think of a woman I worked with a few years ago. She was in her 80’s, and had been sexually abused as a child. For her entire life, she had felt dirty, unworthy, bad- these feelings were easily trigger by cues relating to her memory. Using EMDR with her, she was alleviated of these feelings, and her black dog’s bark could no longer frighten or upset her. Another placebo effect? (if so, it was one she was certainly grateful for). What would have happened to her if she had have read your posts and got the idea that exploring such experiences is merely a diversion? She would have lived her few remaining years in the same torment that she spent most of her life in. And I have seen literally hundreds of other people who have been released from the hold which distressed emotion has had on them for most of their lives. More placebo effects? There’s plenty of it going around mate.
You strike me as an evidenced-based kind of guy (well, selectively, anyway). On the basis of accumulated research evidence, EMDR was recently acknowledged and recommended by the World Health Organisation as a first line treatment for trauma. Because of its accumulated evidence, it has been accepted as having the highest level of evidence possible by most of the psychological and psychiatric associations on the planet (many –most?-of the other hundreds of available therapies have not achieved this status), all on research-based evidence, which does include methodologies which control for placebo effects.
EMDR is only one example of transformative psychotherapies which are apparently launching a reconsolidation process. It is clear that other therapeutic approaches are also effective in achieving transformation, e.g Coherence Therapy, NLP, Gestalt, etc. Just because they are outside of your range of experience does not mean they don’t exist. You may not be impressed by reconsolidation, but there are many leading neuroscientists who are, e.g Jaak Panskepp and others. These are people who are actively working in the neuroscience field. You have taken only the smallest look you can at what Ecker is saying, just enough to equip you with what you think is an ability to knock down the science behind it. This is not a scientific attitude or approach, and only displays a closed mindedness, which is not even consistent with scepticism (ie. withholding a conclusion until the evidence is in- aka- open mindedness). Still, despite the advances in imaging technology, very little is known about the brain with absolute certainty. The same is true for reconsolidation, as it is for all of neuroscience. It is clear that many psychotherapeutic approaches work- and none of them work for reasons that are clearly understood from a neuroscience perspective. This only demonstrates the incomplete state of knowledge regarding the brain, and not the inadequacy of effective psychotherapies. The study of reconsolidation is no different. In condemning this field of study, you are standing outside of what neuroscience currently knows about memory formation, and the ability to alter distressed emotions. Effective psychotherapy has been doing this for over a century; and pre-psychology, no doubt there were effective ways of doing this in traditional cultures. People like Eric report to being able to do it themselves. The neuroscience is only slowly catching up with the reality of therapeutic change; and you are way behind the game in terms of the (albeit incomplete) neuroscience. Poohoo it as much as you like- it does not change the reality that people all over the globe are being regularly helped by therapeutic processes (even though you don’t understand or endorse them).
James |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2013 : 06:10:10
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Nice post Dr. Alexander, thanks for taking the time to contribute to this site, it's greatly appreciated. I find Rik's posts here perplexing also, one moment he's proselytizing and the next he's criticizing, he seems extremely torn. I've suggested to him several times, when he's asked for suggestions and help, that his issues probably stem from fear of aging, but have gotten no response. He just keeps starting new threads.
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TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
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Edited by - tennis tom on 03/28/2013 06:11:33 |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2013 : 10:04:28
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| Dr. Alexander, thank you very much. I appreciate you answering Rik's comments. I had chosen to just ignore them but do believe they are potentially harmful to some folks, especially those who haven't reached a relatively pain-free state. I wish him well on his journey though. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2013 : 12:19:45
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| Thank-you Dr. Alexander, for your post. Excellent information. |
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Mind-Body chronic pain site
