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Birdie78
Germany
145 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2013 : 14:15:33
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I like to compare the two different approaches (reconditioning <--> reconsoilidation) with the picture of a pathway. Reconditioning in my understanding means there's a pathway I don't want to use any longer so I build up a new pathway by driving along as often as possible. That needs lot of repetition. In the result the new pathway is used but the old pathway still does exist and can theoretically - when a trigger is big enough - be reactivated.
Reconsolidation means that the old pathway is taken down and instead of it a new pathway is build up. So the old pathway doesn't exist any longer.
Please correct me if I understood something wrong.
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 14:49:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Birdie78
I like to compare the two different approaches (reconditioning <--> reconsoilidation) with the picture of a pathway. Reconditioning in my understanding means there's a pathway I don't want to use any longer so I build up a new pathway by driving along as often as possible. That needs lot of repetition. In the result the new pathway is used but the old pathway still does exist and can theoretically - when a trigger is big enough - be reactivated.
Reconsolidation means that the old pathway is taken down and instead of it a new pathway is build up. So the old pathway doesn't exist any longer.
Please correct me if I understood something wrong.
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie
you did good Birdie
remember both paths are very good for there needs
they both work and that matters |
Edited by - eric watson on 03/21/2013 14:51:18 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 15:54:41
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| Eric I think I understand what your trying to say. You can change your thought on an issue that bothered you or traumatized you and in some cases that instantanous change of thought is all that is needed for it not to cause further problems, correct? I still call it reconditioning, but as I stated before I think this happens in some people bc they don't need the repetition bc their minds are more suggestible. So the person's mind has a new reaction to that thought even though it took very little work . So although technically it may be called something else, in my mind for all practice purposes the process is the same. If the person is able to "flip" as you have said from the first time around, good for them, they don't need the repetition. On the other hand, more stubborn minds will need the repetition. If my understanding above is not what you mean, please explain more. Thanks. |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 21:07:14
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Very good Ace1
although a lot of times even the stubborn minds can change if they don't try to refuse the process at the time.
See if they don't refuse they can be flipped.
but, if there like I was and have done tried a million things it could work but it would be better for those to do tms therapy with the tensive thinking therapy and then go for this flip ya know.
Were all the same there, tms therapy, not taking from but adding to the best system in the world.
Remember its always best to know sarno from front to back and the anger management therapy as in tensive reduction and affirmations calming the nerves then move to these more extensive therapies
As alix said he did it in reverse- he didn't get Sarno then he studies the other therapies and came back to the forum and then understood sarno.
We have to open our eyes to see what we don't see in all these systems.
I thought Sarno was simple till I got here and seen that many didn't just get it but the reason I went to it so fast was I had done extensive study in all the other styles.
See if you like, venture to these sub modalities if you like.
and not to say these both styles aren't conditioning anymore than frames or reframes are the same in generals there ace, yes.
the flip can be done on people in an instant
it can be done over a period of time
if you flip a now problem such as tms
then you have to do more flips also sometimes
but sometimes an instant change will be triggered because of facing and discharging the most definite negative emotion
If you ask me what’s the most definite negative emotion, id say what is it that bothers you most about your life?
but if you do the tensive thinking and affirmation therapy with the TMS therapy along with reconsolidation therapy then a system in that therapy would be a flip
See it really helps distinguish the bad memories from facing
our problems and people wouldn't have such fear
of looking back at their fears.
Clare Weekes has a facing style that works for many but what if her facing is too much for a man that has seen the thoughts of a war veteran.
Everyone here should know TMS therapy and your tensive thinking
and calming therapy with the reconsolidation if they
want to face the past - if it really bothers them and some as you know ace are frightened by spiders as much as a PTSD person is with the thoughts they have to carry.
its just 1 style - the flip been around for 40 yrs. now or more
Your therapy - AceI, it’s a frontrunner in the expansion of the
TMS world of knowledge therapy - I’m trying to keep it simple
when someone says this is brain overload
I can’t go into the exact how - there's as many sub modalities as frames reframes and conditioning like personality's
Folks need make it simple don't over rush and be calm.
Do 1 system at a time and build their minds
to this powerhouse of knowledge we have been blessed to receive.
1 system at a time, 1 step at a time and learn with the heart
the heart not the mind will show you the way
I think you see my point right
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Edited by - eric watson on 03/22/2013 06:57:53 |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 22:17:16
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remember guys im not talking about Dr Alexander's system as the flip is his system its just 1 element of many systems
if you want the DRs systems they will tell you as much as possible
I've never thought you could get it all in a book or 1 set of teachings till I got sarnos book. but for a lot that's not enough anymore than you can put
the ideas of all the different personality types there but there are parallels and when they cross
and work I work em. were not to limit ourselves in our learning's and never limit yourself on great tms teachers
as long as there base is sarno there really heading in the right direction
we have to let these guys blossom right
we've heard so much about how to do this and that
now we start to tell you and you want us to make it simpler
cant always be that simple but sarnos healing back pain is that simple and as the other tms systems are simple
learn add subtract but keep sarnos 12 reminders and key elements
do tensive thinking therapy and use your affirmations
if you want to learn the sumodalities work its in nlp - emdr - and fastereft and many other systems- you guys want more well heres more right
but we got to say ok where do I start
remember all the tms teachers will show you where to start
just don't try to get them debating whos right when really they both are |
Edited by - eric watson on 03/22/2013 06:13:27 |
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2013 : 04:37:32
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Birdie- you got it (according to my understanding). Conditioning involves creating new neural pathways which then compete with the existing problematic ones. The old ones may be triggered again by certain experiences. Reconsolidation involves activating the old neural pathway, then eradicating the emotional component of it-so it no longer emotionally hurts. Clearly, transformative therapies are only one way of having reconsolidation experiences. Normal life can throw them up; some self help strategies can do it as well (as Eric details); and even some counteractive therapies can chance upon reconsolidation experiences.
Ace1- if you want more detail, i'd suggest you read some of the neuroscience behind it- try Ecker et al's book- Unlocking the Emotional Brain (2012). Be warned though general readers- it aint a self help book and is really written primarily for psychologists and therapists etc. I am currently preparing an article which discusses reconsolidation for The Neuropsychotherapist- will let you know when its available on their website.
James |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2013 : 06:46:36
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Dear Dr. James thank you for your response. I have to say that the reconditioning I mention in my keys, does resolve the pain. Now the details of how this works I think is somehow related to a bringing down the set point of a revved up mind, in terms of neural circuits however I cannot comment. I just a patient do what I told her and in 1.5 months, most acute symptoms were gone. For others reading, remember that everyone based on their mental suggestability has different time frames and thats ok. Thanks again.
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2013 : 11:46:59
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| Ace, I may be one of the people you are talking about. After doing the Keys for as little as 2 weeks, my symptoms were abating. Most importantly, the fear of the symptoms was much less. After about 6 weeks, most of my symptoms were completely gone. New symptoms would appear temporarily, but because the fear of symptoms was gone, I would just laugh at them and they would disappear fast. IT is really amazing how it worked. And my recovery from pain has lasted for 4 months so far and I can almost say that I know the pain won't come back as long as I allow (make space for)the feelings and emotions that were responsible for the pain. Of course, I still have the sleep problems that I have had all my life, at least back as far as 2 years old. Long before I had TMS. I think my mood problems are caused by my sleep problems. When I sleep ok, the world is good, when I sleep badly, the world is dark and dangerous. This is where I think I may benefit from EMDR. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2013 : 12:03:00
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| Yes chickenbone your right I am referring to people like yourself and also the ones that take longer. Dr James mentions the reconditioning does not get rid of pain, but I disagree on many levels because It has happened to me and countless others in my experience. I think we may be talking about the same process but we have different terms for it. Chickenbone I just think you need to use the affirmations longer and the keys longer to help overcome your sleep problem. If you had this problem since age 2, you will need usually a longer time to change this. As your tension set point comes down, then your symptoms will continue to reverse of the order they first appeared. My first tms symptom was the need for glasses and therefore I assume this will be the last for me to go. My eyesight has gotten a lot better, but I still have some ways to go. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2013 : 15:51:41
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| One beneficial side effect of repeating affirmations is that when you do it, you are in the NOW. You quiet your mind chatter. There is no future and no past. Just the affirmations. That has the same effect as a mantra in meditation. |
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How do you work with it?
