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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2013 : 22:47:02
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quote:
Originally posted by kalo
[quote]
...Many people here will say that Anxiety is equivelent to TMS, but, I believe it is not and is a LEARNED behavior...It is not a chemical imbalance either like some believe..
Kalo, this statement is confusing me, are you sure this is what you meant to say? Dr. Sarno says ANXIETY is a TMS equivalent. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2013 : 23:04:01
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Chickenbone, I suggested to you that you may be able to do skype or phone sessions with a TMS practitioner such as SteveO or Nicole, have you looked into that? When I worked with Don Dubin now deceased, he said he usually never had to do more than a dozen sessions to get the TMS message across. I'm acquainted with a number of psychotherapists and none are interested in TMS, if I needed therapy I would not waste any time or money on one that is not TMS savvy. Most of the therapists in my parts are "paid for buddies" or have their eye on the meter.
It sounds like the "therapist" who gave you the NOCEBO about being bi-polar was fishing for something to placate you. The key was that he said it "could be" BP. That's not a Dx, that's a fishing expedition.
I've noticed lately a lot of people using terms like BP, dyslexia, AD very loosely, when I know there is nothing intrinsicly wrong with them, but it's the fashion today to discuss such disorders for primary and secondary gains. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2013 : 23:32:13
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TT, thanks for your response. I think you appreciate my general frustration with therapy. It was only because of Dr. Alexander and his book that I even considered going back to therapy again. I am most definitely encouraged, but have some reservations. I did note your suggestion of Skype therapy and have been thinking seriously about it. It may provide a good start by giving me some direction. Can you give me some contacts, if you know of any. Sorry, you may have done this on another thread, but I don't know where it is.
On another thread, I asked RikR about his opinion on meds and BP disorder. He replied that BP is the most misdiagnosed disorder in all of Psychiatry. I am sure he is right. I was not completely successful getting off my antidepressant. Whenever this happens, I get depressed and start thinking I may have BP and it might be hopeless to get off meds completely. I think I want to get off them more than anything. My husband knows a lot about BP and doesn't think I have it. You are right about the Psychiatrist who "suggested" BP and the meds. He did not help me at all. I will be sure to avoid Psychiatrists. I didn't know enough to avoid them when I first entered therapy. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2013 : 23:45:31
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I am sorry Tom but I am not buying the Don Dubin almost never had to do more than a dozen sessions. It is because he would sell 12 sessions at a time and people would often not pursue for another 12 sessions.
Phone sessions are not enough IMO. There is no way you can get deep into repressed issues. Body language is really important. Maybe it is better with Skype when you see the other person but I doubt.
I went nowhere with my "24" sessions with Don. Same story for my friend that had "12" sessions with him. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 00:05:46
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
... There is no way you can get deep into repressed issues. Body language is really important.
...I went nowhere with my "24" sessions with Don. Same story for my friend that had "12" sessions with him.
Dr. Sarno says you do not have to delve into your repressed issues to get over TMS--you only have to understand the theory. Dr. Sarno's theory can be explained in only a few sessions. Don Dubin helped me and I did some of my sessions by phone. Sorry it didn't work for you and your friend but that is a small sample. I'm only a sample of one but I believe what Don told me, he seemed to have enough "business" and I don't see any reason he would lie about it. I think we're talking about apples and oranges here. Some people's issues are more deeply rooted, but for your average person understanding the fundamentals of the theory is enough. Chickenbone lives in Panama and doesn't want to travel, so phone or skype seems to be the best alternative.
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Edited by - tennis tom on 03/21/2013 00:06:52 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 00:33:53
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Tom, Don was not lying. That's a strawman argument, I never implied that. Don was simply interpreting people not coming back after 12 sessions as cured. As far as Don knew, my friend and I were cured. Both him and I thanked Don for his help and that was it. There was never any kind of follow up.
Also, Tom, Don was indeed trying to look into repressed issues (that he missed), he wasn't trying to explain the theory.
Seriously, if all you need is to understand TMS and to get a little bit of reinforcement if that is not enough, everybody would be cured. You need more than that.
Chickenbone is incredibly TMS savvy already with a very high level of self-awareness and I think it will require more than some fluffy phone conversation to get to the core of her issues. |
Edited by - alix on 03/21/2013 01:00:41 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 04:43:15
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| Dear James, I guess I wasn't asking to learn the technical details, more so I was trying to bring it to the light that the process that one must go through to overcome tms seems to be virtually the same (whether using the term reconsolidation or reconditioning) and that really the differences between these terms are so minute and are of technical interest, that they don't matter when going through the process of recovery. Is this what you think on the matter? If not could you please state what you think the important difference is for those on this forum to understand for their recovery. Thank you |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 07:22:36
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| To me, "reconsolidation" was kind of implying something happening at the emotional / limbic level, (outside of our conscious control to MAKE happen), while "reconditioning" implied to me a more "behavioral", consciously controlled / willpower-like approach. Just the way I took it, which may or may not be what various posters have intended, but language is generally a very imprecise thing! - RSR |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 08:02:05
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Alix, you hit the nail right on the head. I have no more pain. In a sense, you could say that I am cured of TMS, but only because I have learned all about TMS, so the strategy of giving me pain instead of emotional discomfort is not active. Now, because I chose not to have TMS symptoms, I am dealing with the painful issues even though I still don't have a clear picture of exactly what they are. Does this make sense?
However, the underlying cause of my TMS is still not resolved, I have just chosen to experience the symptoms of the problem mentally instead of physically. The MORE the pain, the LESS the emotional discomfort: the LESS the pain, the MORE the emotional discomfort.
I need to resolve my core issues or else I will be vulnerable to TMS episodes in the future givig the right circumstances. Maybe Dr. Alexander can tell me if he thinks phone consultation might help. I get the impression that EMDR needs to be done in person. |
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kalo
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 09:46:02
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Kalo- i hear your pain and confusion. The problem with a lot of therapies is that you can pour it out and pour it out, and nothing comes of this (other than having spend a lot of time and money- as you detail).
Dr. Alexander, thank you for the response. The only thing confusing is if Therapy is a waste of money, then why does Dr. Sarno refer 20 percent of his patients to seek therapist to get better. In listening to The Divide Mind, he gives examples of clients who had to dig in their childhood to figure out why they had pain. This is where it all gets confusing to me.
quote:
Kalo, this statement is confusing me, are you sure this is what you meant to say? Dr. Sarno says ANXIETY is a TMS equivalent.
Hi TT,
Well, what I meant is anxiety is a learned behavior is for me I have been thinking "FEARFUL" all my life. I learned it as a way to cope.
I suffer Hypochondria and that is a form of anxiety. It is a learned behavior. I know SteveO talks about getting rid of his back symptons only for it to be replaced with Anxiety.
I belive that is TMS, but, for most people who have suffered with fearful thinking all their lives, it then becomes learned. You learn to thinking fearfully. I hope that made sense 
Kalo |
Edited by - kalo on 03/21/2013 09:48:54 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 10:32:15
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| Kalo, thanks for the reply, Chickenbone's most recent post is the same thing I would say to you. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 11:01:13
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| Rsr. My need to be in a rush was a learned strained habit. I was not aware of it anymore, so you could call it unconscious if you would like. I had to recondition myself to this. Obviously the technque he decribes is very similar to what i did ( you have to remember that there is always a conscious part of your treatment otherwise you would never be able to treat yourself). Therefore, for the purpose of healing, I don't see a difference between recondition vs reconsolidation, except that the latter is more technical and may confuse some on this board. Maybe there is something I'm missing which is why I am asking dr Alexander to clarify the terms. This is not for my own learning purpose in anyway, but to make it clear to others. For Dr Alexander and I, we have no need to be on this board except to help others since we have already fixed own own problems for the most part. |
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kalo
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 11:21:00
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TT QUOTE: Kalo, thanks for the reply, Chickenbone's most recent post is the same thing I would say to you.
And that is...Don't believe everything you read
Kalo |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 11:53:32
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Thanks, Ace ... I guess, as I grapple with my own understanding of this, is that reconditioning (like using affirmations) works for "learned strained habits" as in your personal example of "being in a rush" whereas reconsolidation is more for "losing the emotional sting which goes with either repressed or unconscious traumatic memories, or repressed negative aspects of our current experience."
I guess when you say "Obviously the technque he decribes is very similar to what i did" I was confused by that, because I thought the *TECHNIQUE* you used was more based on affirmations, whereas the *TECHNIQUES* that Dr James has been talking about have more to do with *depth therapy approaches" such as EMDR etc. And those seem very different to me. Perhaps when all is said and done, the REWIRING of the brain will look the same, in the (healed) end, but the actual techniques for getting there ARE quite different?
In practical terms, the "technique of getting there* is of great importance to those of us still in the process of "fixing our own problems." I do note that Dr Sarno talked about the "3 parts of the TMS/Stress beaker" ... PERSONALITY factors, (like rushing, perfectionism), PAST factors (like past traumas) and CURRENT life stressors ... And perhaps each of these are best addressed by different approaches/techniques, depending on the individual ?
thanks again for helping to clarify things! - RSR |
Edited by - RageSootheRatio on 03/21/2013 11:55:32 |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 12:00:48
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Let me help DR. Alexander and Ace1, both my friends, to clear an issue
reconciliation is when you quickly eradicate a negative emotion that has been bothering you for years and it can lead to pain reduction-
I have talked about reconsolidation many times in my post here I just called it reframing-(Reframing is a general term ok so youd have to ask which post and what type of reframe) but mostly facing -releasing and a calming of the nerves thru meditations and affirmations is great but but sometimes the releasing will be impossible without the submodalites
that's what I call reconsolidation - reframing which is a form of nlp swish.
The names don't matter but in a way they do- see Dr. Alexander calls it reconsolidation because that's what the DR. that worked with the PTSD patients called it and when we have different Drs. with different knowledge their systems are named accordingly- Does it work is what matters and yes a flip or reframe or swish or reconsolidation do work with wonderful results and proven in the field. I use it all the time to help people, yesterday was my first time that I couldn't get a flip to occur and it was only because sometimes if not all the time we build walls that can only be overcome by trust, then reconditioning- then reconsolidation if needed.
Dr. alexander says talk to a therapist because you cant just tell a person to do a flip or reconsolidation- it has to be showed. Ace if you don't want to study these steps cause I know your a busy person then id love to show you a simple flip so you can know how fast and simple it can be- it works and is different than reconditioning
and we all know we are different but this style Dr. james talks of has again been proven extensively to get rid of distressing emotions
now reconditioning is where we would say like aces affirmations for 30 days with all out heart and soul then reap the benefits and also losing the tensive thinking as ace describes so great is reconditioning
the reframing as I have called it will be instant within an hour a life long issue can be discharged or it can mean the reframe of learning aces style so as in general reframes they are in that group the same- a reframe is when you get a better outcome right
the reconditioning takes 30 to 90 days.
sometimes a simple swish can help tons but look at all the negative things we have from the past- its like dominos though - when we knock 1 down the others begin to fall
and as we already know we don't have to know that 1 big repression as long as were hitting at the negative emotions then that's appropriate enough
Dr. Ace. and Dr.alexander compliment each other
They both are here to help- Thank god for these power houses of knowledge for with out them how would we know what the medical world is doing as in whose there for us- Ace1s keys have been a powerful antidote for the cure, but remember that we don't understand doesn't make it less effective
ask away guys im here to help
I want to clear the air for two guys that
are just to good for us even to compare
always learn how to clear your tensive thinking first
but remember others have to learn both styles- I did
see DR alexander is helping in all areas as ace is its just two schools that compliment each other- I know
Note- reconsolidation and nlp are different cause of the Drs that teach two systems with some aspects the same and others different ok |
Edited by - eric watson on 03/21/2013 13:28:44 |
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kalo
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 12:31:59
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quote:
reconciliation is when you quickly eradicate a negative emotion that has been bothering you for years and it can lead to pain reduction-
Hi Eric,
Thanks for explaining reconcilation..Please, forgive me, but, how do you it?
Ugh, I am probably the only one not understanding...
Kalo |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 12:46:26
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as I said kalo
I cant explain it to ya
id have to show you or direct you
I think Dr. Alexander explained it well as anyone could
see Dr. alexander has walked the rd. to healing from tms too
trust him guys- he's not here to confuse- he just knows some big words that wouldn't hurt to look into
he as much as ace and myself are expanding the way to help
in the tms world |
Edited by - eric watson on 03/21/2013 12:47:28 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 13:05:41
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Thanks Eric, I completely agree. It is all complementary. I did recorded affirmations and FasterEFT and really benefited from both. As long as you put your heart into it and don't approach those methods with cynicism and skepticism "just to try", you will benefit. I truly felt the reconsolidation happening.
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2013 : 13:14:49
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you got it alix
completely correct |
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How do you work with it?
