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balaenoptera
Germany
15 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2013 : 13:39:50
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As I understand, balto (impressive story) and some others on the forum had tremendous success in combining the ideas of Sarno and Claire Weekes. I have read and reread the Mindbody Prescription, I have read Hope and Help for your Nerves and listened to some of Weekes audios (which you can download here: http://www.junior-anxiety-depression-exchange.org.uk/Relax.html).
I think she must have been a marvelous lady. Her voice (even in low quality audio) sounds so compelling and empathetic. Her work was all about anxiety and panic. I have some questions on how to transfer her ideas to pain, or if I got the message at all. And I am also wondering how to combine Sarno’s way with hers.
The main points I got:
1. Just accept, never ever fight against anxiety, fear, pain or depression
2. View your reactions or sensations as normal reactions of your sensitized and conditioned mind and body
3. Don’t try to switch off or to run away or to distract from your feelings or sensations, don’t force yourself to relax. Relaxation will come with practice.
4. Rather just let go, try to float in anxiety/feelings/pain.
5. Never ever test yourself. If you test yourself, setbacks (which will always occur until fully recovered) will defeat you. Testing adds again tension and stress.
6. Just practice. If you just practice there is no urgent demand, no tension. Setbacks can be viewed as normal, telling that you only need more practice.
7. Be patient with healing, it takes time.
I think these are the main issues. Correct me if I missed something. I interpret the “never fight” that you also never should become obsessed with healing? Like, you should not search the whole internet for the best book, the best solution, or read ten books about TMS. In the beginning this surely is what you have to do, to find the knowledge (in Sarno’s sense), to get confirmation, to find the methods that suit you. But at some point this again adds endless tension, right?
I have problems with the floating. I can imagine how to float in anxiety, fear or other feelings. Claire Weekes also said: “look right through the panic, the cure lies on the other side”. I have no clue how to transfer that to a constant pain, to a muscle or joint. Any suggestions?
The knowledge factor in Sarno’s approach fits to Claire Weekes’ because it enables the acceptance.
But Claire Weekes approach is more in the here and now. She doesn’t mention anything to become aware of your underlying emotions or your rage. And this I think is the main difference. Is it useful to dwell in the past? To analyze your feelings and traumas from ten or more years ago? Isn’t that in contrast to let things just go? Something that pulls you more down? Is it better to narrow that down to current issues?
I am very much open for suggestions on how to combine the two approaches, because I think both are helpful.
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:43:26
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Balae:
You should call these your keys to healing!
I read somewhere that a good way to handle anxiety, fear, rage, etc. is to detach yourself from the drama. Take the view of an outsider that is oberving you. Does the observer think that your behavior is justified? Does the observer understand why you are reacting in that way? What would the observer say to you?
Thanks for sharing your wisdom!
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 19:38:55
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quote:
Originally posted by balaenoptera
I have problems with the floating. I can imagine how to float in anxiety, fear or other feelings. Claire Weekes also said: “look right through the panic, the cure lies on the other side”. I have no clue how to transfer that to a constant pain, to a muscle or joint. Any suggestions?
The knowledge factor in Sarno’s approach fits to Claire Weekes’ because it enables the acceptance.
I actually find the word "floating" quite helpful.
This is how I interpret it: when you feel pain, your first response usually is to fight it, tense up against it. This just adds to the pain. It also activates your nervous system, so that the pain continues.
So instead, try to relax into the pain when you feel it. As Weekes says, this is different because it is the OPPOSITE of what you've been doing, and of what it feels natural to do. So instead of fighting, tensing against the pain, you must accept/relax/ float.
I've actually found this much more helpful than Sarno's "talk to your brain" suggestion, or his idea that you just have to remind yourself that it's TMS and it will go away.
Oh, also, Weekes emphasizes that it will take TIME to go away. Also key for me, so I don't get discouraged. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 20:30:44
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quote:
Originally posted by balaenoptera
I have problems with the floating. I can imagine how to float in anxiety, fear or other feelings. Claire Weekes also said: “look right through the panic, the cure lies on the other side”. I have no clue how to transfer that to a constant pain, to a muscle or joint. Any suggestions?
Bala, we all don't like pain, but you have to realize the different between tms pain and normal physical injury pain. Broken leg, nasty cut, hit your head falling down the stair, dob bite, tooth cavity... real physical pain hurt but they all different from tms pain is that they don't produce FEAR. They hurt, they bother us, the pain may be too intense to sleep, too painful to move... yet we don't fear them, because we know exactly what they are, what caused them, and they WILL heal.
TMS pain caused fear. We don't exactly know what caused them, we have lots of doubt, we affraid the pain is a sign of something is very wrong, we affraid it will turn into something worst, something permanent, something incurable... that fear of what is going to happen is what keep them alive.
Understand that you have fear, understand that the pain symptom is creating this fear. Understand that if you can somehow stay calm and like Peregrinus said, be an observer, the fear, to panic feeling will subside. Make up your mind that you will not fear it, then just "float". Float is like acknowledge that you, the pain, is there but I'm not paying you any attention. I know you are harmless if I don't fear you. then go on doing something else with your life.
When fear thought come, just dismiss it. Just gently let go of it, don't fight it, just let go, let go... then keep your mind focus on something else. Find something for your mind to focus on intensely, something that can keep your mind's attention and displace those fear thoughts. Do it in a gentle, peaceful, and calm way.
With practice, with enough time, it will become a habit. You will become a professional ANTS killer. (ANTS stand for automatic negative thoughts).
Goodluck Bala.
You wrote beautifully, I could never write like that. Thanks.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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balaenoptera
Germany
15 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 04:30:17
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Thank you for your encouraging posts!
I think I got your point. I hope I can practice it, seems to be a big challenge to stick to it. I am in constant fear/anxiety and have constant unpleasant sensations/pain. Only the intensity is varying. Sometimes the anxiety is more prominent (or first), sometimes the sensations/pain. However, it all started with the unpleasant sensations two years ago.
Besides this approach, did you also journal? If so, what was/is most helpful for you?
- Just writing about what comes to your mind?
- Looking out for (traumatic) events in the past that might have contributed to or build up your personality traits?
- Looking back just so far as to around the onset of your symptoms?
- Or just writing about the current stressors in your life?
@peregrinus
quote:
Take the view of an outsider that is oberving you. Does the observer think that your behavior is justified?
Doesn't that force you to negatively label your behavior? Like, oh this guy is totally exaggerating, he must be a fool. Or do you mean that in the sense of discovering how you constantly label yourself negatively?
@balto
quote:
You wrote beautifully,
You're kidding  . Because I am not fluent in English, I have to think every sentence all over, which takes me a lot of time. Anyway, thank you for the compliment, seems it is worth the effort.  |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 08:11:38
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Balaen:
Adopting an observer's point of view will inevitably indicate that you are in conflict about something. You are identifying an issue that you have. The issue is usually your identity or at least the identity you have assumed. Slights, insults, embarassments, rage are all caused by assaults on this identity. If this identity is false there is no need for such reactions.
If you read the posts here between the lines you will discover that most participants are "set off" by challenges to an assumed identity. Detaching yourself will allow you to see whether or not you are such a person.
I think that "Floating" is the same as detachment and observation. |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 09:27:20
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balaenoptera,
You've summed Claire Weekes up beautifully. I'm one of those who's combining approaches and while it is early days, I feel it'll be successful.
All wonderful answers thus far. My understanding of floating with reference to pain is well described by Gail. I journalled a lot in the beginning but less so now. It's hard to say how much that has contributed. While it hasn't diminished my pain, it certainly hasn't harmed me. I don't think you need to go looking for trauma, if it's there then you may want or need to work through it. Claire Weekes didn't believe it was necessary but current neuroscience suggests to the contrary. Search for posts by Dr. James Alexander and chickenbone for insightful thoughts on this.
Must echo Balto's comment. Your English is excellent. |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 09:40:30
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Claire Weekes work was primarily designed for panic disorder where the symptoms are brief and transitory. It was not as effective for chronic symptoms other than to educate patients not to fear them.
It does little to deal with core issues of anxiety or TMS.
Weekes work was a way to stop the secondary anxiety caused by the story the patients tells themselves about the symptoms...also good for TMS. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 09:56:57
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speak for yourself RikR, I and countless people I know have completely cures ourself from tms, anxiety, panic, chronic pain, gerd, cfs, .... by using her teaching. Many people on this forum also cure or greatly reduced their symptom by following her method.
Somehow her method just didn't click with you.
The only thing I can think of that maybe you're too intelligent or your high education somehow made you think that you need something more "advance", more "complex", mor "high tech" than what she taught.
Mindbody is so simple to cure of, but you can only understand that feeling when you're cure. People make it into something so horrible, so complex, so "freudian"...
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 10:03:13
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Bala, I didn't get good result with Journaling so I quit doing it. Journaling somehow just brought back bad memory and my mind tend to relive those memories and create new symptoms.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 10:56:03
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I'm with Balto.
I'll also take my cue from the countless people here who healed from tms using Claire Weekes' methods. The archives are full of them. |
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balaenoptera
Germany
15 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 12:59:38
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I guess most of what can be achieved is in yourself. The work of Sarno, Weekes and others is invaluable, but it is “only” the starting point. As long as the basics are met (understanding the process, acknowledge that it is psychological and conditioned…) the biggest work is that of yourself, a strong dedication for example. And that might be the reason why some method works for one but not for the other. You could even call it a matter of taste. If you want to exercise but hate running you can try biking. But you shouldn’t state that running is of no use for anyones health, or that biking is the only sport that is good for health.
My TMS has a lot to do with fear and anxiety, and such the Sarno/Weekes approach is most appealing to me. I don’t know if I will succeed but I will give it a fair try. |
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 16:58:14
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| Very well said. |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 17:45:54
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Balto
Maybe what you had is anxiety - it can cause pain |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2013 : 20:46:22
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quote:
Originally posted by RikR
Balto
Maybe what you had is anxiety - it can cause pain
Three surgeons wanted to operated on my back Rik.
I've been to the hospital and doctors for - Anxiety & panic attack, agoraphobia, ptsd, depression, suicidal, headache, IBS and other digestive problem, CFS, tintinus, tennis elbow, shoulder pain, knee pain, backpain, sciatica, toe pain, gout, hip pain and clicking noise, kneck pain, rash and hive, pimples and other skin problem, tinnitus, chest pain, heart palpitation, sensitive to noise, sensitive to bright light, SAD, eye pain, ear pain, arthritis in fingers and knee, burning sensation in different parts of the body, pins and needles, buzzing muscle, burning mouth & tongue, unexplain dental pain, burping , belching, gas, nightmare, insomnia, sleep walking, sleep talking, night sweat, night terror awakening,...
None of them can help me. Sarno's and Claire Weekes' combined cured me.
Your doubt is what keep you in pain.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2013 : 12:59:53
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There is very little difference between what Weekes and Sarno actually prescribe as far as action to take. As Plum pointed out, numerous success stories around here directly quote Weekes, while dozens of others quote her methods without knowing it.
You'll find some posters here attacking others for not being Sarno purists, but the fact is... Weekes was Sarno's predecessor. I'll bet if we could ask Sarno, he'd tell you he was directly influenced by her work.
They both offer brilliant advice... Weekes just simplifies the message a bit, and calls TMS by a different name. (Anxiety.)
Look at Ace's keys to healing. Most of the are right out of Weeke's methods or take-offs.
Acceptance, floating, not straining... these are all concepts Weekes was pusing for years against an industry dead set on drugging people.
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gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2013 : 13:14:16
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Something I notice as I re-read her book is that she repeatedly emphasizes, this is not your body. Your body is fine. You will feel fine again. It's just like Sarno's message.
The only difference is that he stresses the role of the subconscious, while she does not. His approach is Freudian while hers is cognitive-behavioral.
Oh, and he focuses more on back pain while she focuses on the physical symptoms of someone with anxiety or panic attacks. But they are all physical symptoms caused by something psychological, rather than a physical problem. |
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Dr. Zafirides
189 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2013 : 19:36:06
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Bala,
What a beautiful post to read. Don't ever doubt your strength. This forum is testament to the resilience and strength of the human spirit.
You can AND WILL feel better if you put in the time.
Thank you again for a beautiful post.
Kindly,
Dr. Zafirides |
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balaenoptera
Germany
15 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2013 : 05:16:57
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For those of you that have been following this path: Did it happen to you that severe setbacks occur? Maybe right in the beginning when you seriously try to follow? Fear and/or pain got worse in the beginning? If so, how did you cope with it? What were your thoughts and reactions?
I know, if it happens, this must be some self-defense of your old habits which don’t want to let you go. Or fear of the unknown. Like, even if this situation is horrible, at least you know it, but you don’t know what’s coming and that produces fear. What helped you most in such situations?
Thank you again for your encouraging and inspiring contributions!
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2013 : 07:19:19
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quote:
Originally posted by balaenoptera
For those of you that have been following this path: Did it happen to you that severe setbacks occur? Maybe right in the beginning when you seriously try to follow? Fear and/or pain got worse in the beginning? If so, how did you cope with it? What were your thoughts and reactions?
This happened very often at the beginning, and this is the biggest reason many people give up so soon using her method.
In the beginning we sometime don't see result right away for whatever reason. And it is very natural for human mind to produce doubt and discouragement. So now beside fear we also have doubt and discouragement, and this will intensify the symptoms a bit. Then if this doubt and discouragement go on a little longer it may produce self anger, you may got piss off and loose your belief in Weekes' teaching, and that will also make the symptoms worst.
The key to success is to stick with it, to give it "time" for our brain to reset and start healing. Dismissing fear is a new habit you have to practice and practice and some more practice. It always seem difficult at first, but if you keep practicing dismissing fear thought, if you keep floating, if you just be patient and really really living in the NOW, one day it will just click and you can literally feel the pain melt away.
When we took that first puff of ciggarette, we choke, we cough, and it taste terrible. When we first took a sip of that beer, it taste bitter, it caused hangover, it made us dizzy. Well, after a while people just love them. With practice many people find smoking and drinking are comforting to them, something used to choke them now became their friends.
Same with dismissing fear thoughts. There will always be resistance from our brain when we try to acquire a new habit. But when it became a habit it will just be a part of our "true" self. And dismissing fear is a very useful habit in our fight against MB ills.
So just keep floating, just keep practicing removing fear thoughts, and remember to give yourself enough time for it to work. It a wonderful world waiting for you on the other side of FEAR.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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Barbara Carroll
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2013 : 12:10:57
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Can u talk more about floating?
Thank u
Barbara |
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Claire Weekes and Sarno
