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pspa123
672 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:09:46
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Yes, I think it is to a certain extent. Anything is an improvement. It certainly is a way to achieve Ace's keys. I am not 100% successful but let me give you a few examples:
If I discuss with somebody, I listen and don't try to formulate an answer in my head while the other person is speaking.
If I empty the dishwasher, I make a point of paying attention to what I am doing. I take my time, look at the shiny glasses etc... There are a myriad of little tasks throughout the day that you can use to stop thinking.
Try it.
I certainly agree it's good to chill out at times and turn the mind down or off, however one prefers to do that -- meditation, exercise, mindfulness, whatever. But I don't think not thinking is a particularly desirable goal for a vibrant, vital human being in an overall sense. Maybe it's just semantics, but I think there is an artificiality and lack of humanity to the state to which you seem to be aspiring. It doesn't sound healthy to me -- where does it leave your real, emotional self if you're just focusing on how the coffee tastes all the time? Do we need to run THAT far from ourselves to achieve freedom from pain? I hope not. |
Edited by - pspa123 on 03/14/2013 14:11:57 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:16:18
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Ace is so correct when he said it is essential to do everything with ease, patience, and avoid being in a rush. To me this point is VERY KEY!!! Ace is also correct when he says that when there are symptoms we want to DO SOMETHING to stop them, but that simply is not possible and will actually make matters worse. We must learn to embrace the "isness" of the moment, not reflecting on the past or projecting into the future, but to accept the situation we currently find ourselves in and don't get ourselves worked-up. (And yes, I fail at this at times but a pull myself back into the present moment) Along with Ace, I have posted numerous resources on this forum to help those who are suffering along with this. And yes, it takes practice, practice, practice! Even after you begin to master these mindfulness practices the symptoms will not immediately go away, but they will have a smaller impact on your life and, despite the pain, you will move along in live with amazing comfort and ease.
Reflect on the following words from Ekhart Tolle:
At worst, and this is also very common, the present moment is treated
as if it were an enemy. When you hate what you are doing, complain about
your surroundings, curse things that are happening or have happened, or
when your internal dialogue consists of shoulds and shouldn'ts, of blaming
and accusing, when you are arguing with what is, arguing with that which is
always already the case. you are making Life into an enemy and Life says,
“War is what you want, and war is what you get.” External reality, which
always reflects back to you your inner state, is then experienced as hostile.
A vital question to ask yourself frequently is: What is my relationship
with the present moment? Then become alert to find out the answer. Am I
treating the Now as no more than a means to an end? Do I see it as an
obstacle? Am I making it into an enemy? Since the present moment is all
you ever have, since Life is inseparable from the Now, what the question
really means is: What is my relationship with Life? This question is an
excellent way of unmasking the ego in you and bringing you into the state of
Presence. Although the question doesn't embody the absolute truth
(Ultimately, I and the present moment are one), it is a useful pointer in the
right direction. Ask yourself it often until you don't need it anymore.
*************************
“Living up to an image that you have of yourself or that
other people have of you is inauthentic living – another unconscious role theego plays.” -- Ekhart Tolle |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 03/14/2013 14:19:42 |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:25:43
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| I agree with you Pspa. I really don't want to hear that the only way to get rid of TMS is to create terminal boredom in my life. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:28:49
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
I agree with you Pspa. I really don't want to hear that the only way to get rid of TMS is to create terminal boredom in my life.
Mebbe I just don't "get" it, but in one of these mindful, observant, being "present" states, can one for example have real, spontaneous relationships? Laugh hysterically? Cry? Get pissed off? And yeah, in my opinion strain or no strain sometimes it's just human to get pissed off and not a recipe for pain necessarily. |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:29:12
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quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
quote:
Originally posted by alix
Yes, I think it is to a certain extent. Anything is an improvement. It certainly is a way to achieve Ace's keys. I am not 100% successful but let me give you a few examples:
If I discuss with somebody, I listen and don't try to formulate an answer in my head while the other person is speaking.
If I empty the dishwasher, I make a point of paying attention to what I am doing. I take my time, look at the shiny glasses etc... There are a myriad of little tasks throughout the day that you can use to stop thinking.
Try it.
I certainly agree it's good to chill out at times and turn the mind down or off, however one prefers to do that -- meditation, exercise, mindfulness, whatever. But I don't think not thinking is a particularly desirable goal for a vibrant, vital human being in an overall sense. Maybe it's just semantics, but I think there is an artificiality and lack of humanity to the state to which you seem to be aspiring. It doesn't sound healthy to me -- where does it leave your real, emotional self if you're just focusing on how the coffee tastes all the time? Do we need to run THAT far from ourselves to achieve freedom from pain? I hope not.
Aye, it does sound like a pointless form of martyrdom, and dare I say another flavour of perfectionism. Give me the throb and pulse of emotions. I would grow weary of myself without them. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:30:36
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
I agree with you Pspa. I really don't want to hear that the only way to get rid of TMS is to create terminal boredom in my life.
Well, I think at least according to Dr. Sarno and James Alexander, and what I understand of Nicole although I have not read her book, that is not the only way. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:44:07
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Well, then I am not sure you get or approve of Ace's keys then. I am pretty much reformulating his keys.
But yes, there is no need to think for an hour everyday of what a slob your son is or how incompetent your boss is. It is strain. Analyze your thoughts for a moment. It is mostly random useless chatter most of the time. Reserve your brain for better things. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 14:51:49
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pspa123 and chickenbone
If you don't want to follow Ace's keys then don't. If you find healing and relief in another way then let us know about it by posting your success stories. We are all happy to read success stories. Ace, however, gives full credit to Dr. Sarno for his recovery.
Shawn
*************************
“Living up to an image that you have of yourself or that
other people have of you is inauthentic living – another unconscious role theego plays.” -- Ekhart Tolle |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 15:00:12
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None of these paths are exclusive.
For me healing rests on authenticity and sincerity. First with ourselves, and then this naturally radiates into our lives. This will look and feel and be different for each of us and god bless that. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 15:39:55
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| Plum, I agree with you. On a lot of forums, I encounter the "It is impossible for anyone to get over (fill in the blank) without doing (fill in the blank) that worked for me". We are all so different and complicated that I don't think there will ever be a "one size fits all" prescription for recovery. Ace's Keys are excellent guidelines (although there is one Key with which I totally disagree and couldn't do even if I wanted to). They definitely helped me in a huge way. In fact, after using them, most of my TMS symptoms went away, at least the most crippling ones. Of course I have other issues I am dealing with like health anxiety in general and sleep issues. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 15:40:29
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Hi guys.
You think straining is fun because you all are so used to it (as I was). You are in a healing process and when it becomes second nature then you will be able to laugh and do whatever you want and be just fine because you will do it in a nonstrained way. You will never test your limits and do the crap that led to your illness in the first place. You will even be able get away with an occasional strain bc your set point is somewhere different from where it is now. I can't see how anyone in pain is having an exciting vibrant life. You will start to see what I'm talking about once you are into this deeply. It's a lovely way of living, but outside the norm in our society. My way, baltos way, Shawn and Alix's way is the true healing way, and what I think applies to most illnesses. Now I do not feel that other methods do apply to other illness. Just based on my observations. |
Edited by - Ace1 on 03/14/2013 15:42:51 |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 15:56:19
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| Ace1 love, you're not wrong. I do understand everything you say about strain and such. I think what rubs me up the wrong way is the emotional flatness. Accepting the limitations of cyber-communication, there can be a coldness to the advice. Actually I completely embrace what Alix speaks of. I came to love the inherent reverence of every day acts because in so doing we weave magic into our days. I also agree that pain spills a dark stain into an otherwise vibrant life. I'm not so sure we're really opposed. You like vanilla, I like chocolate. Let's not let taste get between us. Your keys are sound, I would never have reposted them otherwise, but grant some of us our spice. We'll find our set point within this flavour. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:26:25
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To be mindful is very enjoyable. To me it reminds me of when flying small planes or riding a motorcycle. You have to be totally mindful of what you are doing and it is liberating. There is no time to pay attention to your brain chatter in those circumstances.
I had the best conversations with my daughter ever. In the past I would vaguely pay attention to what she was saying and sometimes I would cut her off in the middle of a sentence. But to be mindful of what she is saying and realizing that she is an intelligent person is priceless.
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:31:31
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| Is playing basketball passionately, caring very much if you win or lose, and not just for the sake of playing, experiencing the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat as they say, a "strain"? |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:36:14
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| Pspa the key is caring VERY much, which is a strain and unfortunetly they is no way around that. I think you understand. The thing is that with practice it really isn't that important anymore. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:43:29
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pspa, playing basketball is the ultimate mindful experience. You are in the now. You are not thinking about the past or the future. Try to keep it that way when you get back in your car.
What is so negative about the brain chatter is that parts of your brain takes it like it is really happening and reacts accordingly.
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Edited by - alix on 03/14/2013 16:45:48 |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:43:49
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
Plum, I agree with you. On a lot of forums, I encounter the "It is impossible for anyone to get over (fill in the blank) without doing (fill in the blank) that worked for me". We are all so different and complicated that I don't think there will ever be a "one size fits all" prescription for recovery. Ace's Keys are excellent guidelines (although there is one Key with which I totally disagree and couldn't do even if I wanted to). They definitely helped me in a huge way. In fact, after using them, most of my TMS symptoms went away, at least the most crippling ones. Of clourse I have other issues I am dealing with like health anxiety in general and sleep issues.
Indeed. Be it Black Elk or Buddha, Bach or the Blues, each way has its charm and integrity and appeal depending on one's mood. To pretend otherwise is a deceit. I sense you appreciate my pagan depths more than most and certainly your words speak of soul. This element is lacking and in the wanting we fall foul of dogmatism. The narrative matters. And so we tumble over words...
(and we chafe to know the key that vexes! Strain be damned, this is sport).
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:45:15
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| So one should only care so much but not very much about things one is passionate about? |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:51:28
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quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
Is playing basketball passionately, caring very much if you win or lose, and not just for the sake of playing, experiencing the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat as they say, a "strain"?
Drive a wedge between feeling and life and the human is extinguished. What the hell is this, 'Stepford Wives Healing'? We're not misunderstanding, we have blood in our veins. Speak to this, speak to the human and watch the healing escalate. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2013 : 16:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
pspa, playing basketball is the ultimate mindful experience. You are in the now. You are not thinking about the past or the future. Try to keep it that way when you get back in your car.
What is so negative about the brain chatter is that parts of your brain takes it like it is really happening and reacts accordingly.
I agree with you, but Ace on the other hand seems to be saying caring too much about the outcome is stressful. But it's that very act of caring so much that gets us lost in the game in the first place. |
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