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pspa123
672 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2013 : 19:46:27
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| Lia we cant know if its tms or not. Is there an objective concrete physical finding that closely correlates with the pain? Does the pain seem to move around? Is it worse with stress and anxiety? These are some of the questions to ponder. A no yes yes in response to the above would be suggestive of psychogenic pain. |
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 07:05:46
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Lia,
If you are too anxious to decide if it is TMS and slowly work through it, maybe you should have a MRI done to reassure you. I didn't and trusted the opinion of my physical therapist, but this is a personal choice. The most we can do is state our suspicion whether it is TMS, based on what you tell us. If I read your story I think the chance is high, but I can't guarantee it 100%.
As you already paid for your treatment, you could at least explore the 'work through it' option with your therapist in a controlled environment, while in the mean time you keep TMS responsible and work on the keys to get better.
If it is TMS and you follow the keys, I don't expect the pain to dissappear instantly, although it could give an instant relief that might surprise you. You have to build confidence in your own body and mind. Acknowledging TMS is one step, finding the things that feed or makes you repress emotions (the cause) is step two. Step three, if necessary, is developing other ways of thinking and acting patterns in daily life.
Just an example of step two:
What kind of dancing do you do, how much time do you normally spend on dancing? Beside the fact that you like to dance obviously, are there any factors that put pressure on you doing it? Could it be that you push yourself very hard. Is there some kind of social pressure for you to get better? Was there a healthy balance between enjoyment and working hard on getting better for you? Try to be real honest to yourself. Maybe the dancing itself has something to do with the cause (non-physical), maybe you can conclude it has nothing to do with it. It is just an exercise of exploring any potential hidden causes (emotions) of physical discomfort.
take care
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lia
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2013 : 18:13:56
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Hi all,
i haven't responded for a while but i just got two MRIs for both of my knees and the results say i have inflammation on my knees. my doctor said there's an indication of knee joint effusion and subluxation of the patella. i'm not sure what these mean but he said in simplier terms it's basically a mild patella dislocation (hence why i hear clicking in my knees when i bend them) and inflammation.
so does this mean my knee pain is due to real structural abnormality and not TMS?
quote:
Originally posted by gigalos
Just an example of step two:
What kind of dancing do you do, how much time do you normally spend on dancing? Beside the fact that you like to dance obviously, are there any factors that put pressure on you doing it? Could it be that you push yourself very hard. Is there some kind of social pressure for you to get better? Was there a healthy balance between enjoyment and working hard on getting better for you? Try to be real honest to yourself. Maybe the dancing itself has something to do with the cause (non-physical), maybe you can conclude it has nothing to do with it. It is just an exercise of exploring any potential hidden causes (emotions) of physical discomfort.
take care
i'm sorry i didn't respond in such a long time. i thought about your questions and i do like dancing but i only like doing choreographed dances. what i mean is, i started dancing because i wanted to do a form of exercise in order to improve my health. a year ago i started having some health problems which did make me very depressed for half a year. but when i was dancing, i used it as a form of exercise and i was just randomly dancing while looking at videos of people dancing. i didn't really enjoy doing that and i felt pressured to exercise everyday. i forced myself to do it anyways for the sake of my health. soon my knee pain started and that was what really broke me because not only did i not improve my health, i even developed knee pain.
i'm thinking maybe it's because i didn't enjoy dancing like that so my mind created knee pain so i could stop doing something that i felt forced to do? my MRIs did show structural abnormalities though. at least that's what my doctor (or radiologist rather) told me |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2013 : 18:24:48
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| Don't rely on a radiologist. They just do a mechanical reading of the MRI, and virtually any MRI is going to show SOMETHING (although as I recall you are fairly young). At the very least, you need a clinician to tell you if the findings potentially mean anything in relation to pain, then you can make a better assessment of whether they are just incidental (as many or even perhaps most findings are)or signficant. By the way my left knee has been clicking/cracking for decades and does not bother me at all, so I wouldn't make too much of a clicking noise. |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2013 : 18:26:24
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lia you can call me and ill go over the issue with you ok
no problem, free |
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lia
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2013 : 19:49:20
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quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
Don't rely on a radiologist. They just do a mechanical reading of the MRI, and virtually any MRI is going to show SOMETHING (although as I recall you are fairly young). At the very least, you need a clinician to tell you if the findings potentially mean anything in relation to pain, then you can make a better assessment of whether they are just incidental (as many or even perhaps most findings are)or signficant. By the way my left knee has been clicking/cracking for decades and does not bother me at all, so I wouldn't make too much of a clicking noise.
you're right. i am very young actually, i'm only 16.
i went back to read your comments and you said "I started to have doubts, getting an MRI which found acute synovitis (inflammation of the joint lining) as well as a large effusion (swelling, fluid, etc.) as well as some other stuff that seems less likely to be a real source of pain". that is exactly what my MRI report says. except i'm slightly confused because originally i was diagnosed with tendonitis and now it's synovitis. they're both inflammation but it's two different things.
if i'm not wrong i think you started treatment of TMS on your knees again right? how's it going?
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lia
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2013 : 19:53:53
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quote:
Originally posted by eric watson
lia you can call me and ill go over the issue with you ok
no problem, free
i followed your advice and picked up healing back pain by sarno. i will get the great pain deception and also the divided mind. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2013 : 21:21:01
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| Lia, I think you need a clinician such as a rheumatologist or physiatrist to assess the nature and extent of your swelling. I mean from what you said it could be trivial or it could be enormous. Does your MRI report also mention synovitis, which is more specific than general swelling (effusion) and is specific to the joint lining? At 16 and absent a specific traumatic injury it seems highly unlikely you have done any significant damage to your knees, so unless a clinician tells you there is something very clearly wrong (it seems highly unlikely but there can be rare systemic causes of inflammation) I would probably start with the assumption that it was a psychogenic thing. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2013 : 22:17:01
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Hi Lia,
You're story sounds like the typical person with TMS that I've heard here a thousand times. You've had all the tests and seen docs and gotten conflicting DX's and big bad NOCEBOS. If you can see a TMS doc, do so for an unbiased dx, there will be lists of them in my sig below.
You are VERY intelligent for someone your age AND that may be contributing to your symptoms, reading and listening to too many conflicting "scientific sounding" opinions. You had the intelligence and luck to discover TMS, a huge alternative to current medical "thinking". Since this is the TMS board, go with the TMS protocol. Read about TMS and you decide what course you need to follow.
My educated guess, based on reading your posts, is that the percentages are very high in favor that it is TMS, about 80%.
So, JUST DO IT! You've had plenty of rest.
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
Edited by - tennis tom on 04/01/2013 22:34:02 |
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lia
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2013 : 15:50:56
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thanks tennis tom. your post was very encouraging. and pspa123, my MRI report does mention synovitis. it says there's minimal joint effusion which is suggestive of synovitis and that there's a mild lateral subluxation of the patella. the MRI report on my other knee mentions those plus bursitis.
i have one question. when resuming physical activity, does the pain worsen before it gets better? |
Edited by - lia on 04/02/2013 16:07:34 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2013 : 18:11:50
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quote:
Originally posted by lia
i have one question. when resuming physical activity, does the pain worsen before it gets better?
Yes it can, too many variables depending on your state of mind and the activity. If you're dancing with someone who stresses you out it may worsen, if you're walking alone in a relaxing environment it may go away in 15-20 minutes like mine does. TMS is the volume control for the pain. Try it and let us know.
G'luck!
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
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Edited by - tennis tom on 04/02/2013 22:01:49 |
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patellar tendonitis
