| Author |
 Topic  |
|
plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
 Posted - 01/29/2013 : 03:22:52
|
8. The problem is really a mental strain (hyped up, excited, on edge, or uneasy feeling) that is discharged into a physical strain or bracing related to a perceived stressful situation/negative thought. It is somewhat a type of automatic habit and mode that you go into.
The primary problem is the mental strain but the physical strain plays a role too. Therefore do things with ease, if you start to get the start of a symptom, don't strain into it more or try to force the affected area to function (it's hard for me to fully explain this, but you should be able to understand). Accept the symptoms and work on the mental strain.
You will think that the way you react is normal (and that you are not in a hyped up mode) because it is so habitual, but if you have symptoms, it is there.
Also, it is your goal to prevent the strain or reaction/mode in the first place, because after you strain the resultant pain/symptoms do linger for a bit before they dissipate even if you try to relax. |
|
|
plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 03:55:45
|
I was listening to Claire Weekes (such a beautiful soul) for the first time last night. I almost fell out of bed laughing the first time she said 'utta utta acceptance' so I'm dedicating this thread to Sylvia, her great sense of humour and her thread on this very subject that you can find here:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8080 |
 |
|
|
Cath
116 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 04:44:08
|
This is SO my problem, but as Ace says it is the norm for me. Sometimes drawing releases me from it, and I know that running when I was really fit also gave me the release my mind needed. But trying to exercise in my current state just increases the strain.
Recently, I emerged from my almost hermt-like existence and started to interact more with other people. I have missed the conversation, and am enjoying getting to know new people again, but I find it very hard to relax in other people's company. My mind is super-hyped after conversations with them, and I find myself going over them again and again in my mind.
I really value the time I spend alone, but also realise that I do need the company of others. It's hard to remember a time when I wasn't hyped up for some reason or another. |
|
|
|
Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 07:36:18
|
| This is a very important point bc it does explain why animals and very young children can be sick. If it was some unconscience process then it would not explain this population. This is why trying to find out what is causing pain from the past is futile, but just may be helpful to see why your sensitized. I think everyone on this forum who has recovered has said this. This is why in my opinion journaling is not that helpful unless you use it to decondition yourself to something, just like Eric did when his dog was injured. |
|
|
|
plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 07:50:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
This is a very important point bc it does explain why animals and very young children can be sick. If it was some unconscience process then it would not explain this population. This is why trying to find out what is causing pain from the past is futile, but just may be helpful to see why your sensitized. I think everyone on this forum who has recovered has said this. This is why in my opinion journaling is not that helpful unless you use it to decondition yourself to something, just like Eric did when his dog was injured.
Beauty of a comment.
I'm faring very well with this approach. Tis early days for me and I'm deriving not only benefits but also faith and courage. |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 12:25:31
|
| The problem is, as I see it, is that we are getting a lot of contradictory pieces of advice from people on this message board, even from those who have "recovered." Don't journal vs journal. Don't do this versus don't do that. ACE1 says "journaling is not that helpful" while Nicole swears by it. So what gives? The professionals need to get together and send out a common, non-contradictory message or admit there is NOT a one size fits all method of recovery. |
|
|
|
alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 12:34:30
|
| Shawn, I completely agree. I did a lot of journaling with plenty of "vomit" as Nicole describes it and I had no result. The second time around, I did no journaling and was successful. Not that my experience is typical, but the mental work 100% of the time was key. |
|
|
|
plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 13:35:43
|
Shawn, I do love a man who shoots from the hip.
I'm backwards to breakfast with it all.
I really do appreciate the whole horses for courses thing but hell I'm starting to find it hard to tell my **** from my elbow. Need help. Apply to: I don't know whether I'm Arthur or Martha, P.O.Box Nuttsville, Pass the Wine would you, UK. |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 14:49:28
|
Shawn,
I'm not recovered yet, so take it for what it's worth.. but I'd say the answer is clearly B. (There is no one size fits all.) However, I have seen progress since I simplified my approach.
I think Ace is very on track with his points of healing... and it's not a coincidence that I'm a bigger believer in the works of people like Claire Weekes than Sarno. Sarno is a brilliant man, and his work furthered the work of Weekes and others, but he essentially just told us that anxiety can manifest in your back, which the mainstream doesn't want to accept.
To me where Sarno fits in is that he gives yet another example of it not being physical... and another example of how losing the fear of symptoms is truly the key to healing.
All of the "distraction" stuff is fine, and may or may not be true.. but it doesn't really matter. I'm of the belief that 95% of those suffering with anxiety (TMS) are not doing so because of a specific childhood trauma or one specific "repressed" emotion. They're suffering because of a lifetime of bad habits learned, stress, fear of symptoms, negative emotions, etc.
I think some of the TMS approaches can be helpful in learning about ourselves. That can assist in making the behavioral changes needed to heal. But at the end of the day... it's like Ace says in today's tip... mental strain turned into physical strain somewhere along the line, and we have to unwind it. For some, journaling may indeed help. It did very little for me. But some swear by it. So, we simply can acknowledge that we have one goal to achieve... yet all get there slightly differently.
Strip away most of the chatter and these TMS books people keep writing are just slight variations on what Claire Weekes told us decades ago. We have a sensitized body and must allow it to heal. |
Edited by - bryan3000 on 01/29/2013 14:50:19 |
|
|
|
chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 14:53:30
|
I can really relate to Ace #8. The one thing all of us TMSers have in common is a turbo-charged central nervous system. Something I really had to realize about myself is that my reactions and the way I go about things is not normal. I expend much more energy on even the littlest things than most people do. I generate much more stress. I constantly have to see that I am doing this and deliberately slow down, get less intense, and stop the excessive mental strain. Sometimes, I even need to take a break and do something relaxing, do affirmations, listen to music or meditate for awhile. It is really amazing how this mindfulness helps to keep the pain away.
Cath, I have a bit of social phobia also. Admitting that to myself was really difficult since I often regarded others as not worth the bother. I can deal with people pretty well individually, but have always rather disliked parties. When I used to drink alcohol, I would just have a few drinks to get rid of the social phobia. However, I don't drink at all anymore because it is not good for my health. So sometimes going to parties where there is excessive drinking can be a pain trigger so I need to pick my spots carefully. |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 15:03:30
|
| Don't get wrong Bryan, I have made lots of progress also and am very functional. If you saw me you would assume I was symptom free, despite the fact that I am quite a depressed person on the inside. I think ACE1's list is quite helpful and I refer to it daily. His commentary on the keys, however, are a bit confusing and I wish he would not elaborate too much on them and let us interpret what they mean. |
|
|
|
Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2013 : 21:26:34
|
That doesn't make sense Shawn. If I wrote them I think I understand what they mean the most. My commentary is to try to clarify, not confuse. If you don't understand, ask what exactly it is you don't understand and I would be happy to make it clearer as I have done in the past. In cases were the author is unavailable or unwilling to comment, in those cases people have to try to come up with the best interpretation they can of what the author means. This is not the case here.
In terms of professionals getting together, I don't think you can ever get a group of people to get together on this 100%. As you can see Nichole's theory of the basic problem is different than mine, so I don't think she and I will agree completely. Maybe there are different ways to heal, but I wonder if the ones fixed without fixing the daily strain are just placebo cures. I can't really say for sure. |
|
|
|
plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 04:17:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
Shawn,
I'm not recovered yet, so take it for what it's worth.. but I'd say the answer is clearly B. (There is no one size fits all.) However, I have seen progress since I simplified my approach.
I think Ace is very on track with his points of healing... and it's not a coincidence that I'm a bigger believer in the works of people like Claire Weekes than Sarno. Sarno is a brilliant man, and his work furthered the work of Weekes and others, but he essentially just told us that anxiety can manifest in your back, which the mainstream doesn't want to accept.
To me where Sarno fits in is that he gives yet another example of it not being physical... and another example of how losing the fear of symptoms is truly the key to healing.
All of the "distraction" stuff is fine, and may or may not be true.. but it doesn't really matter. I'm of the belief that 95% of those suffering with anxiety (TMS) are not doing so because of a specific childhood trauma or one specific "repressed" emotion. They're suffering because of a lifetime of bad habits learned, stress, fear of symptoms, negative emotions, etc.
I think some of the TMS approaches can be helpful in learning about ourselves. That can assist in making the behavioral changes needed to heal. But at the end of the day... it's like Ace says in today's tip... mental strain turned into physical strain somewhere along the line, and we have to unwind it. For some, journaling may indeed help. It did very little for me. But some swear by it. So, we simply can acknowledge that we have one goal to achieve... yet all get there slightly differently.
Strip away most of the chatter and these TMS books people keep writing are just slight variations on what Claire Weekes told us decades ago. We have a sensitized body and must allow it to heal.
Claire Weekes has saved my bacon.
I'm indebted to you and hillbilly for putting me onto her. Since reading and listening to her my pain levels have dropped dramatically, my fear is dissipating and I actually feel like I may be getting my life back.
Her approach works for me. I had no expectations that it would when I picked up her book. I honestly thought it would just be another one to add to the massive library of books-read-in-the-hope-of-healing. Not so.
What I love about Ace's keys is that they work too. I don't give a fig about the politics: I care about healing.
I've mentioned in eric's thread on journaling that writing in that way has been a lifelong passion. At 14 I remember keeping a journal called my secret thoughts. So this is nothing new or untried. The focus may have bern different, i.e. overcoming pain, but the method remains the same.
We're all different and the beauty of this forum is that many views and experiences are shared. Long may that prevail. |
|
|
|
Cath
116 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 04:38:28
|
Hi Chickenbone - I didn't realise I had this "social phobia" until I started to analyse myself because of reading Sarno. I have always dreaded situations where there were large groups of people I wasn't acquainted with. These days, I still make myself go out and join in with people, but I'm not comfortable doing it. I also stopped drinking alcohol about 5 years ago, and stopped exercising regularly. I do believe that both these things were helping me to relax previously (my pain began after some very stressful periods in my life around that time).
Brian, what you say makes a lot of sense to me. I haven't read Claire Weekes, but I will make a mental note to put it on my reading list. Ace's number 8 is bang on the money for me. Journalling has made no difference at all to me, but taking the time to try to relax, and enjoy life without getting too hyped up about anything gives me a small result. I still get hyped up now and again, and my yearning for perfectionism doesn't help, but I'm hoping that one day, I will be successful in de-sensitising sufficiently to be pain-free.
Cath |
|
|
|
balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 04:51:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Don't get wrong Bryan, I have made lots of progress also and am very functional. If you saw me you would assume I was symptom free, despite the fact that I am quite a depressed person on the inside. I think ACE1's list is quite helpful and I refer to it daily. His commentary on the keys, however, are a bit confusing and I wish he would not elaborate too much on them and let us interpret what they mean.
Shawn, I think you have a very analytical brain and you're suffering from information overload. You read too much, you search too much, you doubt too much.
Life is simpler with less choices :)
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 05:24:03
|
Actually Balto, I am not reading any TMS related material these days. Currently I am reading a new biography on Prophet Muhammad written by Lesley Hazleton who describes herself as an agnostic Jew.
But that does not take away from the fact that we are most definitely getting contradictory advice on this message board. I am merely point out an indisputable fact. You cannot ask people to suspend all rationality. |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 05:26:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
My commentary is to try to clarify, not confuse.
The thing is, ACE1, is that your commentary is confusing. Perhaps, like me, you don't like criticism, but I am telling you as someone who reads complex material on a daily basis, your commentary is not helpful and at times perplexing. I am going to stick with your keys but disregard your commentary.
Forgive me for my occasional outbursts and snippiness as it is my depression talking. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 01/30/2013 07:04:31 |
|
|
|
eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 06:11:51
|
i caught myself through awareness always being tensed
if i set doun to write i was tensed thinking about what the next
thought would be -then i caught myself doing it one day-
i was like why am i in such a hurry all the time
where am i in a hurry to get to
why am i doing this to myself-
it was sub-conscious-i didnt even know
i was doing it then through awareness and
mindfulness i started to see how bad it
really was-i mean it was terrible and
i didnt even realize it-
then i started to slow doun and think about focus
no wonder my focus was off-i wasnt never really in the moment
so i started to appreciate the present-
and it seemed as if the day slowed doun-i got so much more done
and the days stopped flying by.
this is really a time saving and
life saving concept on top of calming
your nervous system doun.
number 8 is a powerful tool in our recovery-
if not the most powerful
my mind was always in a strain going 0 to 50
was no problem - i never thought i was getting enough done.
when i slowed it doun mentally and physically-
i got tons more done and felt better too.
and finding out the way i reacted to things was scary
lord was this really me-the reactions were very habitual
and a habit i broke-again this key is powerful
when you learn and study tms healing you will know
first hand that what ace has here is not at all confusing
its very direct and to the point-if you dont understand it
then learn what it is your missing-its not about how
many studys you have done-its if those studys work.
-thanks plum and ace |
Edited by - eric watson on 01/30/2013 06:43:45 |
|
|
|
Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 09:13:02
|
Hi shawn, you'll see that once your cured you can still debate and not take it personally. I was thinking the same thing balto said. Take his advice it'll help you heal. Maybe you don't fully understand my list if you don't understand my commentary. Like I said, see what it is exactly you don't understand and ask. It is very hard to explain this process in words
Eric got it down packed. He explains the concepts beautifully. See when you understand the list, you understand the accompying commentary. I still have to say just bc you understand, doesn't mean you'll heal fast. It still takes a lot of time the more severe your tms.
|
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 09:33:19
|
| My personal situation is way too complex to describe here. My symptoms are actually the least of my worries. I am severely depressed and don't have much of a will to carry on. I am afraid that beyond the psychical suffering I have endured, the psychological damage has had a greater impact on me. I have come to the point where I ask myself, "Ok, when I get better then what?" I am unable to answer that question and that inability to do so is frightening. Surely, as a physician, you are able to detect the signs of depression. I am living through it and it is not pretty. |
|
|
|
balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2013 : 09:44:28
|
My thought is: our body is a machine. The brain is the control center and it's optimal goal is to help us human survive. The brain take input from our thought and our emotion, it interpret those inputs and then instruct the body to react to those input. When our thought/emotion is negative, the brain think we are in danger and it produce physical,chemical, electrical changes in our body to get ready for fight or flight. When it received continuous or chronic or intense danger signal, the flight or fight signal intensified and then at some point produce tms/anxiety symptoms.
If we stop input those "danger" signal the process will end. And if we do thing to promote relaxation, happiness, peace then our body will heal faster.
Many part of our body can produce symptoms without any instruction from our brain. It does that automaticly as if it has a memory of its own, when a past "danger" signal happen again, the body part just produce symptoms on it's own. This for me explain conditioning.
We touch a boiling pot of water and our hand automaticly pull back, the hand do that without any instruction from our brain. This explain why we sometime got stomach symptoms when we eat some food that in past we "thought" is the cause of our symptoms. There are time I thought I'm allergic to all kind of foods, foods that I used to eat my whole life without any adverse effect.
My thought is doesn't matter what method you believe in our use, doesn't matter which "expert" you believe in, as long as some how you can stop putting negative thoughts into your mind, as long as you can some how live a life with as little negative emotion as possible, you will one day get rid of 80, 90% of your symptoms. The rest are just conditioning.
For me the best way to de-condition is to slow down, really slow down everything. Convince and explain to myself the left over symptoms are just conditioning. There are many tools out there to help with this: Mindfulness, "Living in the Now", affirmation...
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Ace of the Day - Day 8
