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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 01/23/2013 : 09:47:32
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| I think it was personally chicken **** of you to call on Dave to delete Nicole's thread to you when you were on the hot seat. You had no qualms about attacking her--but when your ox was being gored the shoe was on the other foot. You could have deleted your posts if you want to but to erase mine and others is revising history. Now you can go running to Dave again and have this one deleted too. Nicole's value to this forum would have been proven (and hopefully may still be) if she'd been given a chance to help. She was attacked from the start and was never given that chance. She did nothing different here any different then all the other TMS "experts" do, linking to their websites, books and materials. And, I find it shameful that her "expert" TMS colleagues here did not speak out on her shabby treatment here. It was just a matter of Bryan's not liking her style--she spoke from the heart and didn't window dress it with Hollywood slickness. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 10:25:06
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| Lets let this post fade into nothingness. There is nothing in this post to help anyone. I would suggest -Lets forgive and not reply to this to make it dissapear faster. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 10:46:22
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Ace,
Thank you, I agree, I had already written a page, but wont post it.
peacemaker Ace, well done.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 11:46:29
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Forgive me for posting so much Ekhart Tolle of late, but I am reading his book "The Power of Now" and it is filled with much richness and wisdom. Perhaps his following words may help in this particular situation so I share them with you here and bold the most relevant parts:
Is nonresistance also to be practiced in the external conduct of our lives, such as nonresistance to violence, or is it something that just concerns our inner life? You only need to be concerned with the inner aspect. That is primary. Of course, that will also transform the conduct of your outer life, your relationships, and so on.
Your relationships will be changed profoundly by surrender. If you can never accept what is, by implication you will not be able to accept anybody the way they are. You will judge, criticize, label, reject, or attempt to change people. Furthermore, if you continuously make the Now into a means to an end in the future, you will also make every person you encounter or relate with into a means to an end. The relationship - the human being - is then of secondary importance to you, or of no importance at all. What you can get out of the relationship is primary - be it material gain, a sense of power, physical pleasure, or some form of ego gratification.
Let me illustrate how surrender can work in relationships. When you become involved in an argument or some conflict situation, perhaps with a partner or someone close to you, start by observing how defensive you become as your own position is attacked, or feel the force of your own aggression as you attack the other person's position. Observe the attachment to your views and opinions. Feel the mental-emotional energy behind your need to be right and make the other person wrong. That's the energy of the egoic mind. You make it conscious by acknowledging it, by feeling it as fully as possible. Then one day, in the middle of an argument, you will suddenly realize that you have a choice, and you may decide to drop your own reaction - just to see what happens. You surrender. I don't mean dropping the reaction just verbally by saying "Okay, you are right," with a look on your face that says, "I am above all this childish unconsciousness." That's just displacing the resistance to another level, with the egoic mind still in charge, claiming superiority. I am speaking of letting go of the entire mental-emotional energy field inside you that was fighting for power.
The ego is cunning, so you have to be very alert, very present, and totally honest with yourself to see whether you have truly relinquished your identification with a mental position and so freed yourself from your mind. If you suddenly feel very light, clear and deeply at peace, that is an unmistakable sign that you have truly surrendered. Then observe what happens to the other person's mental position as you no longer energize it through resistance. When identification with mental positions is out of the way, true communication begins.
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 13:02:31
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Tom,
The thread was removed due to your personal attacks. I think everyone knows where you stand at this point, and we're all ready to move on. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 14:10:45
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Dear Bryan my friend,
RUBBISH! The thread was removed because YOU requested it be removed. Nicole the mother of five and prominent TMS author and practitioner didn't feel compelled to request your unfounded attacks on her TMS credentials and credibility be removed. Nice try at rewriting website history.
I bet if Dr. Sarno himself, volunteered to help people here, the same treatment would be accorded him.
Peace,
tt/lsmft |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 14:19:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Lets let this post fade into nothingness. There is nothing in this post to help anyone. I would suggest -Lets forgive and not reply to this to make it dissapear faster.
Yes, keep stuffing the anger, where should it be stored now, butt, arm elbow? Maybe this site should be renamed the "TMS Help to Enable Repressing and Suppressing". Unfortunately, the person who is due the forgiveness, Nicole, has been driven out of the Kingdom. |
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 14:31:46
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tennis tom, you need a vacation man. Really. Stop straining, start relaxing.
If you leave the forum for a week, all will still be well, and find it's level. The world will still turn.
No problem at all.
Nicole doesn't need you, I mean, has she told you she does?
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Edited by - Sylvia on 01/23/2013 14:37:14 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 15:26:00
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Tom,
I requested the thread be removed because it was the third thread Nicole had created about herself, and this time it had my name in the heading. I requested it to be deleted becasue it was a distraction to what we are all trying to accomplish here. However, Dave responded to me that he had deleted it, but said he had done so due to personal attacks. (You called me names repeatedly, degraded my character, attacked my marriage, etc.)
I'm personally grateful to Dave for deleting the thread so we can get back to regular life here. She made two other threads about herself which still exist if you need a place to post about her. I'm also assuming you can contact her directly.
Many have spoken up on this issue and many were not comfortable on both sides.
This is not about me, and I urge you to let this subject die. On that note, I'm done contributing to this thread.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 23:04:24
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Bryann, It's hilarious how YOU attacked a bonafide TMS practitioner forcing her to leave just like YOU did with StveO and then portray yourself as the victim. Have you forgotten the SteveO incident? He became one of the best contributors to this board and if you hadn't of done the same to Nicole she would have been a great asset to this board too. I fail to see what your contribution here is except for a bunch of 'atta boys. You seldom share anything of your TMS issues. I contacted SteveO and cajoled him into returning after YOU chased him away, then you left and come back and pull the same stunt. Then you pretend to be the innocent injured party, nice try but anyone around here who's been following this melodrama can attest to that. You have no compunctions about attacking genuine TMS survivors who come here to help and tell their story using the ruse of a technical rule.
It's amusing to hear you speak of the boards credibility, what's your agenda? It's a message board! It's Trafalagar Square, it's yesterday's newspaper. Credibility with who? This is not going to be the Johns Hopkins newsletter. Are you going to require those who post here to present their Harvard and UCLA doctorates?
As for attacking your marriage, lies again, are you a speech writer for a politician, if not you should be. After YOU attacked my tennis abilities, I merely asked how was your marriage, since as I recall that was your TMS issue the first time you left the board after the affair SteveO--see how this message board stuff works?
You accuse me of bringing Hitler into this--LIE--I never mentioned his name and I defy you to find it. Thanks for letting me have the last word. Now you can go wake Dave up and cry to him that I called you names again. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 01/23/2013 23:07:49 |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 01:29:22
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Interesting how Dave himself has not gotten involved in this discussion. Maybe it just complicates things.
Mala
Mala Singh Barber. I'm on facebook. Look me up
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 05:18:45
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tennis tom,
Has SteveO ever stated that you are the reason he posted on this forum?
He's a big boy, a big handsome muscular boy, he also seems full of confidence and self-determination. Certainly no weak and wilting flower that needed your cajoling. I don't really know what cajoling means, is it like good humored manipulation?
Why take responsiblity for what Steve does or doesn't do. Or for that matter what Nicole does or doesn't do. I'd think Nicole's Mom has influence on her, but you?
Here is an awesome word of the day
DETACHMENT
Turn the focus on yourself, which I am now going to do. |
Edited by - Sylvia on 01/24/2013 05:20:08 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 09:16:24
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| Sylvia, the carrier pigeons have been released Eastward to Ohio and the Tri-States, hopefully they will make it through the windmill blades at Cabazon, over the Sierras and the Rockies--we'll see. |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 13:52:15
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What happened here? I see my name and "cajoling" next to it. I tried to follow here, but it doesn't make sense. There's something about me and a TMS expert named Nicole, and then Ace saying to forgive. Then a deleted thread.
Then I read down to where Sylvia bells, Sylvia bells (it's Christmas time in the city), said that I was no wilting flower. You can't be weak if you bring the TMS message. It ruffles feathers and rattles cages to believers and nonbelievers alike. It's a highly rejected concept and attacked on every level. If you talk about TMS, you had better have a cup on, it gets nasty. I recently had some lady email me to rip me to shreds about TMS. She said it was insane and that I was hurting people with this ignorant message. She said she had had 5 back surgeries, and that it didn't work because the surgeon had done it wrong, but that he would get it right next time. That same day I received another email from someone who had healed with my book. So, the protective mechanism is still working as Dr. Sarno had insightfully described.
People who obviously have TMS, often say they don't have it, they fight tooth and nail to keep their physical symptoms. Those who think they have TMS, often fight tooth and nail to stick to their own version of healing, so they can remain in pain. I don't even know what tooth and nail means but it sounds cool.
Not everybody is ready to heal. I've stated this in threads in the past, and I've spoken to several TMS docs, including Dr. Sarno, about this problem. The pain is there to protect the anger and emotional pain. Their own version of healing prevents them from healing. That's why I used that Klopfer example in my book on page, 134. It's not that they're doing anything right or wrong, just that they move with greater caution, and are not yet quite ready to take that painful leap, for many reasons that I wrote about. The only "control" they have in their lives is their pain, talking about healing, or controlling other people. If they lose that control, they will have to face those very dangerous emotions that their TMS is protecting.
I went through the same phases, and the point is, that, intolerance and the fighting of any offers of help, or solutions, simply means that the person is not yet ready to heal. It is the only control they have left, a buoy in a vast ocean of confusion and fear.
No one wants to give up their current hold on emotional safety. Message boards, and talking to others, is a means of sharing the deep pain and fear. These are good things. Even if some information passed back and forth is not true, forums still serve their purpose in connecting, and in easing fear. The danger in boards is that they can keep people in perpetual suffering, but that only means that they aren't quite ready to let go. That's ok, every person "needs," and if it provides a need, then it's a good place to safely land. It all comes back to that word tracordification. To gather allies in life, as to never feel isolated and alone, which is our deepest fear.
As far as me, I never knew this board existed because I was researching and writing for 10 years. I wanted people to know that their suffering could end, so I began write a book. At the very end of my book, I wanted to put a list of TMS help sites in an Appendix so that people who needed to feel as though they weren't alone in their fears could connect with others. I was happy to see a site actually called "TMSHelp." So I put it in the back of the book along with a list of other places that people could go visit to lean on other people. Our deepest wounds are only healed through others.
So I wanted to write it down to show people a way out. It was a noble cause and still is. There's no money to be made in TMS, only Dr. Sarno made a profit on his books, and he deserves it. He's the man. TMS books are losers as far as sales, but the reward back in those thousands of people who feel better, who get their lives back, is worth it.
When I came here to help I was met with rejection. I was accustomed to it because I had been working with TMS in thousands of people through the years. I had seen many things (but there are always nice surprises to keep it interesting). Even people who want help can be offended by the kindest of gestures, and so the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
My mission was, and always will be, to help people. So I knew I had better back out of this site, and move on to people who were ready to heal. Each in his/her own time. But I began receiving emails from people here to please return, that it was only one person who objected to me coming in and mentioning I had a book, that may help them. The emails began to increase daily, "please come back, your words are resonating with me, it's only one person who objected to you being there and mentioning your book." I didn't pay attention to what the one person was saying because I had seen it before and it doesn't bother me. I simply didn't have time to argue with a new book, and I didn't want precious time wasted on more conflict. Even the owner of this site didn't object to me talking about my book, he had some type of problem with the hyperlinks was all.
It's a catch-22. How do you help people with your work if you can't mention it? Since information is the key to healing, how do you give information if you can't point toward the information? It was a stalemate. Then came Tennis Tom.
Tom, got hold of me and told me to come back to TMSHelp, that people will benefit from all the research I had done, and from the stories of people I had already helped. He has been kind and open and honest to me. I only returned because of him. He assured me that people didn't care if I mentioned my work, and that it was only one person who objected. I wanted to help, so I began posting again. I hope what I have said here has helped some people. I know that there are people who have healed from what I have written, and have moved on, because they've told me. You don't see them any more here. Many were lurkers afraid to get criticized for saying something that would get them chastised by a few people. It can be a sensitive personality, and the basis of the disorder itself is based in anger. It's a toxic cocktail.
The goal remains the same, to help people. I received many emails about doing an audio book, so I'm working on one now and I don't have time to post here much, I'm sorry. I want to get this beautiful TMS message out to many more people, so I'm working on ways to go bigger. Dr. Emmett Miller recently told me that he is going to put my book into his healing library. That is a high honor because he's one of the first mindbody MDs in the country, and has one of the best healing libraries in the world. He emailed me a few days ago, "You know that Sarno guy is right, that's what I see in my practice also."
There's much more going on also, but it's important to me that everyone who wants to heal has a chance. I still receive emails from people who come here to heal, and I enjoy them all. The greatest thing about writing a book is meeting all the good people. Dr. Sarno is right again, these people are very good people, and I admire them in their quest to cope through a dynamic life. I think I may have made $50 here for 2oo hours of responding. Anyone can email if they need help, I try to answer all of them, but it has become overwhelming to get to everyone. But I will try to help.
As far as Tennis Tom. His self deprecating humor is refreshing in an uptight world of pain and control and seriousness. He truly wants to help people, and he's doing some things outside of this forum to help others heal, that he won't release me to say because he's not into it for notoriety. If anyone has been helped by anything I've ever said here, it was because of Tom.
Steve
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 14:15:21
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Steve, you rock.
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 14:40:35
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We all have a big ego, some bigger than the other, but that is where most of the problems come from IMO.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 14:49:24
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The adverbial phrase “tooth and nail” (originally “with tooth and nail”) literally means “with the use of one’s teeth and nails as weapons; by biting and scratching,” according to the Oxford English Dictionary.
But, as the OED notes, the expression has almost always been used figuratively to mean “in the way of vigorous attack, defence, or action generally; vigorously, fiercely, with one’s utmost efforts, with all one’s might.”
In fact, the OED‘s first published reference to the phrase is figurative.
In A Dialogue of Comfort and Tribulation, which Sir Thomas More wrote while awaiting execution in 1535, he created a fictional conversation between Anthony, a wise old man, and Vincent, a young man fearful that invading Turks might kill him if he didn’t betray his Christian faith.
Anthony argues that some men love the delights of the world so much that “they would faine kepe them as long as ever they might, even with tooth and naile,” but thereby lose the greater gifts of heaven.
We seem to have a thing about teeth and nails, which show up in other figurative expressions.
A few toothy ones are “show one’s teeth” (show hostility), “get one’s teeth into something” (begin serious work on it), and “lie through one’s teeth” (tell a deliberate whopper).
Some phrases featuring nails are “bite one’s nails” (be nervous), “drive the nail home” (clinch an argument), and “hit the nail on the head” (get to the heart of the matter).
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 14:51:30
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BaltO, that's exactly right. All problems stem from ego, the more dominating and controlling it is, the more the body reacts organically, and the more others around suffer.
But we can never completely rid it, we will all have one, the pain lessens when we understand it and try to diminish it.
The question is, "why does it dominate?"
Plum, it takes a rocker to know one, |
Edited by - SteveO on 01/24/2013 14:53:28 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 15:56:15
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveO
When I came here to help I was met with rejection.
Steve
What? When? Where? We want you here Steve. Honest to God, we want you to be here!!!!!!!!!!! If I could scream it through the computer I would. Please stay with us and forget the negative people who don't appreciate the good work you do. |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 16:12:08
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(Quote -Steveo)- TMS books are losers as far as sales, but the reward back in those thousands of people who feel better, who get their lives back, is worth it.
(Quote-Eric)- steveo brother to me your books worth all the money in the world-and your words are how i healed-THANKS FRIEND-
YOUR BOOK IS A WINNER STEVE -A WINNER.
YOUR A PIONEER YOURSELF STEVE-no-body else at the time that you were healing and helping others after you healed has ever done what you have done.and for TENNIS TOM without him rooting me on and telling me direction i never would have known so much about you STEVE-well i had the advantage of having you to be my first re-ply when i was broken in half with pain.
im sorry this happened here bryan.your a good person.im not in this argument ,but i think steveo said it best-
were here to heal-we get mad-thats part of the mechanism working fine-now lets turn that mechanism around with forgivness.
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Edited by - eric watson on 01/24/2013 17:24:54 |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 16:21:27
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"The holiest of all spots on earth is where an ancient hatred has become a present love."
~ A Course in Miracles
Can we all be friends now please?
Blessings and peace. |
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Note to Bryan
