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lmcox
24 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2013 : 11:20:48
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Just wanted to throw this out there in the "Interesting" column. Recently I came across a book called "Brain Lock," by Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz. He studies OCD (and to a certain extent, anxiety), specifically the part of the brain that "overheats" and causes repetitive thoughts, etc. He's also written several other interesting books, including "You Are Not Your Brain," which I am currently reading and highly recommend.
I know, you're thinking "I don't have OCD, I have chronic pain," but here's what I think is interesting-- Dr. Schwartz studied thousands of OCD patients, and a certain number of them had a type called "Purely Obsessional OCD," which is when you have the obsessive thoughts but not the compulsive behaviors that relieve them (like hand washing/ checking/ hoarding/ picking/ etc). Here's a link to purely obsessional ocd on Wikipedia if you feel like reading more about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purely_Obsessional_OCD
Is it not true of most of us that our mind/ body syndromes could be thought of as a form of "Pure O," where your thoughts are stuck on the pain syndrome? For instance, when you have a pain in your back, how many times a day do you think about that pain? I know, this could be a "chicken / egg" type argument, but since Dr. Schwartz talks about ways to cool down your brain to get it to not throw out thoughts like this, I thought it would be an interesting discussion at least.
So--what if we started treating our mind-body syndrome/ pain symptoms like an OCD attack, basically saying "I know this is this one part of my brain overheating and causing this symptom in my body." Maybe this added awareness would bring us closer to being able to master that out of control part of our brains once and for all. That would mean that the only real problem we have is a part of our brains that just heats up and locks into place, and if we can master that, a life free from the mind/ body symptoms is not far behind. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 11:27:03
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| It is interesting. I have had OCD (mostly O) for most of my life, LONG before I had pain. Is it just another manifestation? I don't know. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
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bjackson034
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 12:07:36
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| I had something interesting happen to me awhile back, after my back pain went away, I started developing OCD symptoms two weeks later. Treating it in the same way, I was able to get rid of the OCD symptoms as well, then a week later, I started getting wrist pain! The OCD was just another symptom imperative. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 12:15:24
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| OCD is a label doctors use, but it is in fact a fake diagnosis. I don't know if we are allowed to say Bull-**** on here or not, but that is what the label OCD is. As I wrote in my previous post, fads in psychiatric diagnosis come and go and have been with us as long as there has been a psychiatry. OCD is just another fad diagnosis that doctors use and patients latch on to. |
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lmcox
24 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 12:37:23
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The purpose of my mentioning it was actually not to latch on to the fad diagnosis, Shawn. It was to call attention to this specific part of the brain that Dr. Schwartz researches-- the part that gets "stuck" in place, and the (extremely helpful) realization that in fact, your mind and your brain are different, toward the ultimate goal of using your mind to control some of the unhelpful signals your brain might be throwing out (like pain signals, or thinking about pain, or obsessing about a diagnosis-- sound familiar?. He gives examples of CBT exercises that can be done to become aware of these thought patterns and break the cycle.
So, in no way was I trying to get anyone to say "I'm OCD" or to get stuck in or defined by a label. I was just suggesting a resource that might be helpful for the group. Let's not get off track here-- we all share the same goal of wanting to lead productive, healthy lives, using whatever tools are available to us, correct? |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 13:03:38
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| I have a tremendous amount of obsessional thinking. To me, the label is pretty accurate and I view it as descriptive, not pejorative or life-defining. I do agree people get too hung up on the DSM labels and that diagnosis can be abusive. E.g., I have a child who is truly autistic -- cannot speak for example -- but I see the term thrown around now to cover anyone who is even quirky. And stuff like executive function disorder is absurd too. The medicalization of normalcy. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 13:40:11
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quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
I have a tremendous amount of obsessional thinking. To me, the label is pretty accurate and I view it as descriptive, not pejorative or life-defining.
How would you know yours is any worse or better than anyone else other than some doctor telling you so? We all have obsessions, so the label of OCD is, for the most part, meaningless unless the medical establishment wants to say that everyone has OCD. I highly recommend the book "Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Health" by Dr. H. Gilbert Welch, Dr. Lisa M. Schwartz, and Dr. Steven Woloshin. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 01/20/2013 13:40:47 |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 13:40:31
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When I started examining why I do what I do, I remembered a lot of stuff from childhood. I used to count a certain wall cabinet in the tunnels. I knew that when it reached a certain number, we would be out of the tunnel. I did this with a lot of things. Perhaps it was just what kids do "Are we there yet?" kind of impatience.
My brother had to touch his closet before going to sleep. I had to play a certain chord on the piano before leaving it. I guess we felt we'd be jinxed if we didn't do this.
There are so many things that could be diagnosed as OCD that are no quite that, same with bi-polar. I once took a bus to buy up every post-it pad in a certain Staples before it was discontinued because I liked the design. I didn't need to buy 40 pads, couldn't really afford it but this is something bipolar people do (overspend) but I am not bipolar. I think we all have touches of things listed in the DSM.
I am all for diagnoses, without a diagnosis, there is no treatment...but I notice that it is in style now to be bipolar (or have PTSD)...and I get annoyed at everyone claiming to have these two disorders, I don't know if it's a cool thing to have this now or an attention getter. I was quite shaken after the hurricane, what I saw, things burning down, watched in horror, and my friends said "You have post traumatic stress disorder". No, I was shaken up and it lasted a while. They argue it was a slight case...you can make a case for anything.
If I am not expressing myself well, maybe this example will help. My neighbor's niece was in the World Trade Center when it collapsed and she died. My neighbor 10 years later claims she has PTSD and this has become her whole being, she is not even trying to enjoy her life, hasn't received professional help. It's a self diagnosed copout to me and something to cling to...she was never happy before so this serves some kind of purpose. |
Edited by - susan828 on 01/20/2013 13:42:22 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 13:45:33
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| Once you know a bit about the history of these diagnostic fads then you will understand why the medical establishment, especially the professional pill pushing psychiatrists (aka legalized dope pushers), desire to place a label on almost everything we do so that they can then prescribe a pill or some other expensive "treatment" program on us. As the book "Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Health" by Dr. H. Gilbert Welch, Dr. Lisa M. Schwartz, and Dr. Steven Woloshin states, "the conventional wisdom is that more diagnosis—particularly, more early diagnosis—means better medical care. The logic goes something like this: more diagnosis means more treatment, and more treatment means better health. This may be true for some. But there is another side to the story. More diagnosis may make healthy people feel more vulnerable—and, ironically, less healthy. In other words, excessive diagnosis can literally make you feel sick. And more diagnosis leads to excessive treatment—treatment for problems that either aren’t that bothersome or aren’t bothersome at all. Excessive treatment, of course, can really hurt you. Excessive diagnosis may lead to treatment that is worse than the disease." |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 01/20/2013 13:51:16 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 13:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
I have a tremendous amount of obsessional thinking. To me, the label is pretty accurate and I view it as descriptive, not pejorative or life-defining.
How would you know yours is any worse or better than anyone else other than some doctor telling you so? We all have obsessions, so the label of OCD is, for the most part, meaningless unless the medical establishment wants to say that everyone has OCD. I highly recommend the book "Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Health" by Dr. H. Gilbert Welch, Dr. Lisa M. Schwartz, and Dr. Steven Woloshin.
I don't agree with that reductionist thinking. Sure it's a spectrum, and everyone has some obsessions just as everyone can be depressed sometimes and everyone can be anxious sometimes, but that doesn't mean the labels are meaningless or that at the far ends of the spectrum it isn't correct to speak of disorders. There are clearly people for whom obsessional thinking is a major problem and disproportionate. I know this about myself, people who know me well clearly see it, and it has nothing to do with any doctor's opinion really. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 13:55:05
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Once you know a bit about the history of these diagnostic fads then you will understand why the medical establishment, especially the professional pill pushing psychiatrists (aka legalized dope pushers), desire to place a label on almost everything we do so that they can then prescribe a pill or some other expensive "treatment" program on us. As the book "Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Health" by Dr. H. Gilbert Welch, Dr. Lisa M. Schwartz, and Dr. Steven Woloshin states, "the conventional wisdom is that more diagnosis—particularly, more early diagnosis—means better medical care. The logic goes something like this: more diagnosis means more treatment, and more treatment means better health. This may be true for some. But there is another side to the story. More diagnosis may make healthy people feel more vulnerable—and, ironically, less healthy. In other words, excessive diagnosis can literally make you feel sick. And more diagnosis leads to excessive treatment—treatment for problems that either aren’t that bothersome or aren’t bothersome at all. Excessive treatment, of course, can really hurt you. Excessive diagnosis may lead to treatment that is worse than the disease."
Yes, I agree about overdiagnosis, but as I said, that doesn't mean all diagnoses are invalid. Because way too many people are called autistic doesn't mean there is no such thing as autism, for example. There is, I know it first hand. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 13:57:16
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| I would be the first to agree with you about overprescription of psych drugs, by the way. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 14:58:14
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Hi Shawn,
I don’t think the question: “How would you know yours is any worse or better than anyone else other than some doctor telling you so” is important. More importantly how the obsession affects you personally. Are you worried about it? Do you have anxiety and frustration over your obsession? Does your obsession take you to unsocialistic extremes that isolate you? I think the measurement of one’s obsessions is relative to each of us.
I think each of us has to find out what “their normal accepted behavior” is, and then benchmark their particular obsession against this. I agree we tend to cling to acronyms and vogue diagnosis, but where else would you start?
I recently desensitized my worry about my perfectionism with my first bout of successful journaling. After 15 pages of writing about the “Whys” and “Hows” of this trait, I came to the realization that it was not so important an issue. Indeed every single action of every minute of my life has been blessed and hurt with some measure of perfectionism. Perfectionism is one of the costs of me being alive and thriving.
So going forward I know what to do, I need to be aware of this cost like I would with money. I need to estimate how much grief a task is going to bring beforehand. I need to slow down and give myself more time to do things. But most of all I need to accept perfectionism as a gift and use it wisely. To get to this conclusion I had to journal by focusing on the whys and how my perfectionism affected me. And now I feel quite content to have this trait.
Hi pspa123,
You are like me in your job very analytical and accurate. Is your obsessiveness just part of your make up and nothing to worry about? Could you just recognize it as blessing?
Footnote: Thanks Balto for planting the seed that perfectionism was overrated.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 15:07:19
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| Andy hi how are you doing? I think most of the time what you say is right, it's just me and I certainly am not defined by the label as I posted before, but there are times when it's intrusive and couner-productive and I wish I could shut it down or tone it back a little. For example, the organizational obsession extended to silly things can be a bit much. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 15:54:14
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I would be interested in knowing the definition of "perfectionism" as it is used many times on this message board and Dr Sarno also uses it as one personality trait people prone to TMS tend to possess. Here is an online quiz to see if you possess perfectionist characteristics:
http://stress.about.com/library/perfectionism/bl_perfectionism_quiz.htm
Here is my result:
"You're Not A Perfectionist
"You are definitely not a perfectionist. In fact, you're quite laid back. You may even benefit from striving a little more in your life--you may be surprised at what you can do! Just be careful to focus on the enjoyment of stretching yourself and growing, rather than worrying about the results too much. The following resources can teach you a little more about perfectionism, and about reducing stress in your life." http://stress.about.com/library/perfectionism/blc.htm
Yes, the medical establishment now has a label for everything we do no matter what it is. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 01/20/2013 15:59:44 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 16:21:36
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LOL I am perfect and don't need any pills!!
You're A High Achiever
You strive toward perfection, but you have a healthy understanding of what is and isn't possible, and you're able to enjoy the journey without getting overly hung up on the results. Good for you! You may find the resources below of interest in case any perfectionistic tendencies begin to creep in, or to help the perfectionists in your life learn to relax and accept themselves. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 17:33:35
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Hi Shawn, pspa123, I am doing very well thanks.
I took the test also, with the same results as last summer. I also believe I will always have this trait. But look at the progress I have made that is apparent in what I posted earlier. Here is my report card:
You're A Perfectionist
You probably already know that your perfectionistic tendencies cause you stress and complicate your life in some ways, but you probably don't realize the extent of perfectionism's negative effects on your lifestyle and stress level. The resources below can explain more about perfectionism, and give you resources for changing. I highly recommend you begin the journey now. Don't worry if it takes a little time to change your patterns; any progress made can benefit you from now on.
This summer when I read from SteveO’s book that perfectionism could be bad for me was a revelation to me, I was quite upset at the time in disbelief. I did several different tests, and they came back positive and above average the same as above so I haven't changed.
My main denial was that it could do me harm. Since then I have spent hours trying to reconcile what the definition means to me. So Shawn, in a nutshell my new definition is now: “perfectionism is a gift to be used wisely”.
Psps123, yes I have done the same regarding tidiness, try embracing it as an asset with fun in your heart, perhaps make scale rules about the level effort you need to apply for certain tasks. I’ll email you one of my tidy reflections about my tool box.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 20:10:54
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quote:
Originally posted by susan828
...I think we all have touches of things listed in the DSM.
...but I notice that it is in style now to be bipolar (or have PTSD)...and I get annoyed at everyone claiming to have these two disorders...
...I don't know if it's a cool thing to have this now or an attention getter.
...my friends said "You have post traumatic stress disorder". No, I was shaken up and it lasted a while. They argue it was a slight case...
...you can make a case for anything.
...My neighbor 10 years later claims she has PTSD and this has become her whole being, she is not even trying to enjoy her life, hasn't received professional help.
...It's a self diagnosed copout to me and something to cling to...
...she was never happy before so this serves some kind of purpose.
Agree wholeheartedly, you expressed yourself exceedingly well. |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 20:37:09
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Why thank you, Tennis Tom! By the way, there was an article on The NY Times on Thursday about the metal used in hip replacements. Apparently it had problems. You can find it online. I would imagine they're not using it anymore.
I know you said you might have to have that done someday so good to know the specifics. I went to see a neighbor in the hospital today. He had it done Friday and was already walking with the PT person, doing a few stairs. It seems like this is easier than knee replacement. Everyone I know who had the hip done had no problems at all.
I hope you don't need it done though :-) |
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TMS/ OCD Connection
