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stevep
106 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2013 : 15:51:09
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| I don't come around here that often anymore after having been feeling so much better. I try to forget that it ever existed. I am a little confused by this question though. Sarno states a good few times in his works that a person can lift/bend/etc til their hearts desire. That the body is an incredibly strong machine. I have to admit that I still have lingering thoughts that lifting with "bad form" can lead to injury. Is it true that it can, just not chronic injury? Is that what I'm missing here? |
Edited by - stevep on 01/14/2013 15:52:50 |
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Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 16:12:47
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Stevep. I have asked exercise physiologists about this, and their response is as follows:- when we lift weights, we can do so either by exerting large powerful muscles, or by exerting smaller less powerful ones. Their view is, 'why strain smaller muscles when we can use more powerful ones to do the same job?'. This then leads on to 'correct' ways of bending, lifting etc; which then leads on to an almost health fascist approach to using your own body, and a great deal of fear (and cueing yourself into an expectation of injury etc), which Sarno is rightly critical of.
As such, it probably makes sense to just use your body in whatever way feels ok to you- if you cant lift something without straining yourself and pulling a muscle, then dont do it; if you can lift it without harm, then do it. If you want to use your larger, more powerful muscles to do the lift, then bend and lift 'correctly' (according to OH&S principles). But, do remember that there has never been established a connection between physical exertion (or structural pathology) and chronic pain- how you use your body ("correctly" or "incorrectly") is probably irrelevant to the experience of chronic pain (according to the research which TMNS theory draws upon).
This was driven home to me recently- a day after i scattered my recently deceased father's ashes, i lifted a plant pot and got a burst of back pain which stayed with me for the next 2-3 days. I have lifted many similar weights in the past without experiencing any pain at all. So, was it just a random fluke that this pain followed the emotional strain of dealing with my father's remains? I suspect not. Were i not aware of TMS, i could conclude from the experience that i had lifted the plant pot "incorrectly"; that i need to be really careful about how i lift; that i need to be anxious about lifting; that i need to view my body as weak and fragile, etc. Instead, the pain went away in 2-3 days and hasnt returned. My guess is that i caused a minor muscle tear from the lift- why did i tear the muscle from a relatively normal action which followed an emotional strain? David Schechter (a mind/body physician) confirmed to me that muscles suffering from ischemia (due to the TMS dynamics of keeping unconscious distress in the unconscious) are more vulnerable to muscle tears due to the decreased blood and oxygen supply- they are already compromised. So to me, it seems pretty clear that my burst of psychophysiological pain followed a significant emotional strain as well as a minor physical strain. The 'pain industry' would have us focus on the physical strain, with notions of correct ways of lifting etc; but they miss the more important factors, which are emotional. If you want to become or remain pain free, focus on the emotional strain (and especially the fact that our mind/brain is creating the pain in order to distract us from emotional/psychological material which is very threatening.
James |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 16:21:56
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| Wow very thorough answer. Good stuff, I'll have to read it a few times. Thank you... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 16:36:43
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If it's too heavy to lift--you couldn't lift it.
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DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod
=================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 17:15:14
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| I think James is right on. I think a muscle that is o2 deprived is more prone to injury bc it is not in its optimal state. If let's say you have severe pain in your back, if you try to fight the pain specifically and go lift the heavest thing, it will probably cause more pain. Now if you wait till you resolved the pain and lift something heavy you will have no problem. |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 17:47:11
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| Sounds pretty right on. Like I said, I've been feeling good lately, but still had some reservations about certain exercises. Specifically back squats. I did some today and feel fine. Just starting light though. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2013 : 19:00:11
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| Propreoception gone awry. |
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barberboy
Canada
14 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2013 : 05:10:41
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You're preaching to the choir stevep. I've been training with weights for over 20 years now & I know exactly how you feel. I can deadlift over 400lbs for reps & feel totally fine but somedays, I bend over to tie my shoes & I get a huge, painful, spasm that can last for days. All this does for me is to cement the thought that the pain is totally psychological in nature. Try not to fear the pain & keep on training.
Stay strong. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2013 : 19:55:14
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I really liked your answer, James. I have fallen into the "pain industry" trap in the past, but only temporarily.
I especially liked it because it is probably the most common sense answer about pain and exercise that I have heard yet. There doesn't seem to be much common sense in medicine today.
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Can I hurt my back from lifting incorrectly?
