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Jilly
USA
40 Posts |
 Posted - 12/06/2012 : 12:00:52
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Hi Peregrinus, Will do...I hug her lots ! I'll let her know this is a special hug, from a special friend  She is simply an amazing young girl  |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 14:26:31
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Hi Balto,
Originally posted by Peregrinus:
you should try to identify the source of the emotions (past and present) that are causing your TMS.
Balto comment:
“No tms doctor suggested this. It is almost impossible to identify the source.”
Balto, I think your statement is too categorical and would be misleading to a newcomer for we all have differences with our emotions and reasons for TMS. In HBP Dr .Sarno gives quite a few examples of how patients related their pain with specific life events to help effect a cure.
Trying to identify our sources of stress is a major part of what we do here, and I have been very successful in doing this by journaling past issues as well as daily reflection and honesty. “Almost impossible” statement implies we shouldn’t even try.
Dr Sarno found that it wasn’t always necessary to find the exact source of stress, and Jilly seems to understand this by stating “It’s not crucial to find the root cause”.
I think Peregrinus’s quote above is dead on.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 12/06/2012 14:33:25 |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 16:51:31
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Hi Andy,
I think trying to identify what stressed you out is good at tms/anxiety prevention, not treatment. It may help you figure out how to not stress out if the same event happen again but it is not needed to get rid of your symptoms. For several reasons:
if something happened 10, 20, or 30 years ago, how do you know which emotions is responsible for your back pain, which one for pain the kneck pain, which one caused the panic attack...? Try to look for it would just make you more frustrated and lead to more stress. Some people getting worse doing that because they have to relive past negative events all over again.
If you believe in Sarno's therory, he said the tms symptoms is there to distract you from some negative emotions. If it fail to distract you then it will cease to exist. Now think about it, how can symptoms distract you? It has to hold your attention right? How does it hold your attention? It hold your attention by creating fear and health worry. So if you can stop fearing it, if you can stop worry about your health and no longer pay attention to the symptoms, the symptoms will just disappear. You don't need to identify what emotion that caused the symptom.
Whatever you did that helped you, great! Of course if you know your source of stress and are able to remove it would be very benefitial to your health but it won't cure your tms.
I know you're sick of me saying this but: no more fear, no more pain. If you still fear your symptoms, nothing will work, nothing.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2012 : 18:56:30
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Hi Balto,
Isn’t it typical of TMS to have two people recover in very different ways?
As I stated above I agree you don’t specifically have to pinpoint your stress. But you do have to believe that stress is causing your pain. If your stress remains hidden it will continue to hold your attention by not surfacing and keeping you in the pain cycle.
So it isn’t just fear of symptoms that holds your attention. TMS will find any devious way to distract you from the real issues you need to face. Did you ever read my post called: “Now I’m being silly” from last March? Although I wrote it in jest much of it seems true, and it’s my version of how TMS works.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7290&SearchTerms=now,Im,being,silly
Incidentally my fear of symptoms disappeared once I ran through my pain in 2000, as you know I am very active. I think your “Fear message” applies very much to the new people here, I am sure they benefit.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 12/06/2012 18:57:31 |
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Jilly
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 09:36:14
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| WOW ! Thank You guys so much for all of your insightful work ! I am working towards being pain free and I already see fantastic results...I read Andy's piece from last March and its wonderful ! I am learning so much from all of you...keep talking ! I am definitely a work in progress but I am so happy to be on track. |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 10:11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Jilly
WOW ! Thank You guys so much for all of your insightful work ! I am working towards being pain free and I already see fantastic results...I read Andy's piece from last March and its wonderful ! I am learning so much from all of you...keep talking ! I am definitely a work in progress but I am so happy to be on track.
jilly im glad this is helping you-just remember to stay the course with your journaling as you have learnt and dont fear the pain-we dont divide those two tecniques-they worked fine for my recovery and everyone elses i can think of-if i was to just not fear the pain and not journal about my emotions,then how would i learn how to re-lease tension-not fearing is a powerful concept but we cant forget the emotions that have caused that pain-(sure one being fear) but what about all the surpression that led to repression other than fear that we are holding in our bodys -we need to look at them , accept,reprogram with positive affirmations then re-lease and by doing this we get those uh-huh moments that give us faith to stay the course,and in time heal |
Edited by - eric watson on 12/07/2012 10:13:41 |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 16:51:09
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(quote-balto)
Whatever you did that helped you, great! Of course if you know your source of stress and are able to remove it would be very benefitial to your health but it won't cure your tms.
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balto all thru sarnos books ,all the recovery storys were about people that learnt their source of stress (,or at least worked at finding it)-as we know its the hunt that helps-stop fearing it ,and obtained a cure-how do you say knowing the cause of stress or tension which is the pain not in effect a cure-
how do you explain the lady that was in severe pain and after going to a meeting for people in her situation ,she went home in pain and started crying and crying because the repression was breaking thru to consciosness
(the only case sarno had seen that proved his theory)
and then in that moment the repressed thought broke thru and she was instantly healed-
i dont get what your saying balto-
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Edited by - eric watson on 12/07/2012 17:00:46 |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2012 : 07:37:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jilly
Hello I am new and have a question...I applied the techniques for TMS to think psychologically instead of being distracted by the pain.
It happened to be a headache and I felt my irritation/frustration at my daughter who was simply sitting at her computer. As unreasonable it was of me to feel this at her...I felt it, I didn't stuff it and talked to my subconscious and said " AH HAH ! caught you, not going to work..." I sat with the feeling till it slowly dissolved and distracted my self with computer work. The next thing I knew it was GONE POOF ! Well-ahhh !
Today I have pain in my upper back it moved from my low back. What do I do? It is way more intense today and the techniques are'nt working.  
Jilly,
this is awesome. you need not do anything else. You have recognized the pain is a message, you sat with it, you released it. Keep doing what you are doing. I do this and have been very successful at it.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2012 : 08:11:50
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I'm not very good at clearly expressing what I want to say in English, sometime it frustrated me. Whatever I posted I've learn either from experience or from many mindbody teachers in the West and in the East. It worked for me and I've seen it worked for countless other people. You shouldn't believe in what I said, you should analyze and think about it, if it benefit to you and your health, use it, if not then forget it. There is no side effect in using it. :). If you disagree in anything I've posted, let agree to disagree. Mindbody is in its infancy here, there are many school of thoughts and many different or conflicting theories out there. We just have to do our best to pick and choose what may help us.
Many of my mindbody teachers told me that most if not all human's negative emotions have either anger or fear at its core. Anger is the emotion we have at something already happened. Something in the past. Fear is the emotion we have when we anticipate something unpleasant is going to happened, it is our perception about the future that produce fear. Many don't consider stress as emotion, it is just a stage in our mind where we are in between anger and fear.
Anger and stress triggered stress symptoms. If we can quickly elliminate anger and stress as soon as the symptoms appear, the symptoms usually cease. But if we dwell on our anger and/or if our stress became chronic, stress symptoms become tms/anxiety symptoms and it will become chronic and stay with us even if we could elliminate anger and stress. Symptoms remain because of fear. Our survival instict due to million years of evolution automaticly produce FEAR when it senses that our body is in pain or out of balance. In order for us to heal we have to successfully remove that fear. Because fear will continue to instruct our body to tense up and restrict blood flow, it will instruct our body to release all these stress hormones and produce all kind of symptoms. If you fail to remove FEAR, you will not heal. Successfully removing fear will elliminate 80, 90% of your symptoms, the rest is all conditionings.
Stress will produce new symptoms, but fear is what keep those symptoms alive. Elliminate stress from your life will prevent new symptoms from happenning but it will not elliminate existing symptoms. We have to remove fear. If you want to identify the source of your stress, if you want to "hunt" the source of your symptoms, that's up to you. But removing fear should be your priority.
If you really think about it, all the mindbody methods that were taught by all these mindbody experts all try to achieve the same thing and that is to remove fear, remove the "what if" from our mind. When we have no more fear, no more health worry, we're cured.
very very simple: negative emotions created symptoms, symptoms created fear, fear instructed our body to tense up and releases hormones that keep the symptoms alive, symptoms produce more fear,.... you are in a symptoms - fear loop.
- We use mind power, positive affirmation, visuallization to help replace fear thoughts with positive thoughts. We brain washed ourself to create a new perception about our health.
- We use yoga and meditation to take back control of our mind, we become an observer of our thoughts and guide our mind to be more passive, peaceful, and to remove unwanted thoughts from our mind (removing fear thought). The calming effect of meditation help us realize that our health condition is not so bad, with TIME we will heal.
- by just reading mindbody books we can heal too. If we believe in what we've read, if we can accept the diagnosis, once we able to accept the diagnosis that our symptoms are benign and it caused by our emotion, most people loosed their fear and heal. Sarno called this "book cures".
- if we do nothing, sometime by just continue with our normal activities is enough to heal. We notice that the symptoms don't get worse, don't increase even that we continue to be active, slowly with TIME, we loose our fear of it and heal.
whatever method you want to use, once it can elliminate fear from your mind you will heal. What's left is just conditioning that you need to work on.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2012 : 18:44:39
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Hi Balto,
I have nothing further to add that I have not already said that would enhance the value of this commentary.
Regards Andy
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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Jilly
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2012 : 14:33:24
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| Thanks to all...I need to work on the fear component. |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2012 : 20:25:33
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Jilly,
One thing you said, stuck me suddenly when out for a walk yesterday. Something about your daughter "sitting at the computer" pushed one of your buttons. I find this happens to me a lot with my sixteen year old. Particularly when she does something she learned from watching me and it is something I don't like about me and I am trying to change! I hope that helps.
I think most of us that have succeeded with this (or succeeded to a degree that we are mostly comfortable, most of the time) agree that
-1- You need to accept you have TMS
-2- decide you want change it
-3- Work on changing it
the "work on changing it part" is were we diverge. that said, try different stuff, many things work, it all depends on you, and keep what works.
Based on the fact that you are so aware, you are willing to "be with it", and are having different symptoms, you are light years ahead of 85% of folks on the planet! I learned all that over they past 7 years of counseling and continue to practice to get better every day! And I am very happy where I am at.
That all said, keep this in mind
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it,
no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense." Buddha
feel free top contact me if you wish.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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Jilly
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2012 : 12:13:03
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Hey Matthew .. thank you so much for the insight:
" I find this happens to me a lot with my sixteen year old. Particularly when she does something she learned from watching me and it is something I don't like about me and I am trying to change!"
I am working on that very concept because I recently learned I am a mirror reflecting and the object I am gazing at reflects back how I feel about the object of my gaze. So I am trying to figure out what it was that got me to react internally. So far all I came up with is my own teenage angst (general-global) staring back at me...any ideas ? THXS in advance |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2012 : 13:24:12
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Hi Jilly and Matthew,
Jumping back on this thread with new thoughts, I feel the same way as you both regarding the last two posts. I think our buttons can be pushed by any number of things from our past. I like to imagine that our psychological make up is the sum total of every minute of our lives up to this point in time.
There is possibly a million things that potentially could upset us like our 16 year olds. When Dr. Schubiner explained this in detail in his book and videos, I was comforted by discovering the way our brains work regarding the conscious vs. sub-conscious, thereby understanding I was normal.
My 40 year old son and 4 year old grandson can at times push my buttons! When my grandson jumped all over our new couch the other day pulling my triggers gallore, I corrected him while forcibly focusing that I was angry and entitled to be so, but now to calmly move on and don’t bare a grudge.
Cat, I agree Pain Deception and HBP was all I really needed. Schubies’ book was great until I got to those exercises, but it was my fault I couldn’t do them for some reason unknown to me.
Jilly, Matthew is right you are doing very well, good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 12/10/2012 13:26:19 |
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Jilly
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2012 : 14:08:16
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Thanks Andy,
Sometimes it feels as though I am floundering ... but I am making progress !
Thank you all so much for your insights... it is helping  |
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Jilly
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2012 : 14:16:53
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P.S. Andy, where are you doing the wind surfing, wind surfing, wind surfing...did I mention... WIND SURFING !
I know of a lovely place to WIND SURF North Shore,Maui Kanaha
check the web cam below
http://www.mauiwindcam.com/streaming/kanaha/ |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2012 : 20:48:42
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Jilly,
Thanks for the web cam link, I had to load Quicktime Player, and when I first viewed the live windsurfing my heart did a big TMS throb-throb!
Last time I was at Kanaha was 2005, when I broke my foot on wave jumping. The joy of windsurfing made me so positive I walked on it for two weeks assuming it was a mere sprain! My attitude to my wife was: ”Honey it’s OK, I hurt my foot on the last wave jump on the last day of windsurfing for the year”. I had the whole winter to recover without missing one day of fun.
Locally in California I go to Lake Isabella, Lopez Lake, Rio Vista on the Sacramento Delta.
Thanks for the cam, I now have a link, I'll be there in April.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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Jilly
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2012 : 05:39:22
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Andy,
Your'e welcome! Glad you enjoyed ! Check those other tabs and you can see windsurfing all over the island ! I lived on Maui for 9 yrs, past mile marker 17 on the way to Hana. LOVED IT !
P.S. Isn't that interesting, regarding your ankle pain...you pushed it aside to wind surf ! That's what I'm learning to do with back pain ! Pay no attention to it, but in your case there was a true injury. |
Edited by - Jilly on 12/11/2012 05:41:31 |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2012 : 17:37:47
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Hi Jilly,
Thanks, I now have a desktop icon for the cam, as I have to have a windsurfing fix every day, obsessive I know!
My son used to live in Hawaii, he is now a marine mammal specialist, but started at the Hilton on the Kona coast as a Dolphin trainer. He is in Florida presently taking further degrees at Harbor Branch University, but shares our love of Ha. He can’t wait to get back to paradise, and we can’t wait to visit him.
Yes my broken foot was reverse TMS, as the pain was real and the reasons for the pain were also real, ouch. Not everything is TMS; question everything, because only you know your body the best.
Aloha
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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New to TMS
