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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
 Posted - 11/26/2012 : 08:36:25
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I am having a bit of a setback these days (yes, it happens to everyone) and I was reading the TMS wiki page this morning. I read that, "By understanding how current stress contributes to TMS symptoms we can begin to limit their affect on our overall health." The article further stated, "TMS symptoms can be triggered by stress without us even realizing that we are under a lot of stress."
This is quite an incredible statement to make -- that we are under stress and not even aware that we are. I think we have been educated with the idea that we have to feel a certain way in order to be under stress. Pain, or other symptoms, are not always thought of as an indicator of stress in today's mainstream medical establishment, although I think things are slowly changing. Some people can have incredible pain in their body and yet adamantly deny that they are under stress even though their bodies are screaming -- STRESS STRESS STRESS!!!!!!!!
If you are not under stress of some kind it is probably because you are already dead and have not laid down yet for your eternal rest.
I invite you all, and myself, to read this post --titled "The role of triggers: Holidays and headaches" -- by TMS Dr. Howard Schubiner: http://www.unlearnyourpain.com/blog/mbs-blog-18-the-role-of-triggers/
We must ALWAYS remind ourselves that current stressors are, according to Dr. Sarno, one of the three major sources of TMS symptoms. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 11/26/2012 08:37:45 |
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PJ77
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 08:40:52
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Hi Shawnsmith
Thank you for your post.
Might be an obvious answer but what are the other 2 sources of TMS symptoms? |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 08:48:13
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| Dr. Sarno says that the other two common sources of TMS symptoms are past trauma and personality traits, which he lists in his books, such as being a do gooder, worrier, perfectionist and overly overconscientious etc.... |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 11/26/2012 08:50:14 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 09:35:27
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| I read Dr shubiner's book in the past and its funny but in his article it says to use affirmations to decondition yourself to triggers, which I fully agree and think is a key to recovery. I never got that message from his book however and I felt the major thrust of his book was journaling and meditiation more so. Just wanted to bring this point up and ask if others felt this way too. |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 10:25:24
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Ace1:
I'm not sure I know what a trigger is! Every morning I sit down to get my shoes and socks on (not in that order) and when I get up my back is intense pain. Is that a trigger?
All the best. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 11:08:57
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| I think somehow where your going has more to do with your pain then the benign action of tying your shoes. Its getting ready for what ever it is your about to do. So your trigger is getting up in the morning to get ready. You have somehow hyped your self up to this situation countless times (to hurry or whatever) and now you just get hyped up automatically. This is where the deconditioning has to occur for you to heal. Dont worry about trying to force yourself to be able to tie, b/c I'm sure there are other times in the day were you can do it much easier. So, obviously, the mere action of tying your shoes is not the problem |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 11:19:18
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Ace1:
Thanks for the advice!
This all started a few years before I retired and back then I was really under a lot of work related stress. So it makes sense that I didn't want to think about what was going to happen that day. Now that I'm retired the ugly stress is gone and I spend my time doing things I enjoy. However, as you suggest, it may be a case of conditioning. Perhaps each morning I should say to myself that I'm going to have a swell time today!
Thanks again. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 12:01:34
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| Sure, let me know how it goes, use an affirmation like Im calm and relaxed and I'm having a swell time today. Notice I used the present tense. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 12:50:51
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Hi Shawnsmith,
I also seem stuck, like Peregrinus I am retired and have the lowest daily stress for years. To reduce stress further I have spent the last year lining up my finances and medical programs for the future. Everything should be rosy, but it’s not, and very hard to pinpoint what is really wrong. I recently posted “Look at your three Pees”.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7787.
Being critically honest with myself I have all three to cope with, with “Present events” consisting of mediocre, low level stuff that most people would laugh at, so I am trying to laugh also, as we will always have this type of daily stress to deal with.
I must admit my attention has been drawn to my new activity of weight training, so most of my TMSing is only posting here. Clever stuff this TMS-distracting me from doing the work by occupying me with a new hobby!
Peregrinus and PJ77, did you read my post about conditioning below, that early morning waking up was the trigger? See below:
Hi PJ77,
Having gone through many layoffs, (through no fault of my own!), I used to wake up with terrible guilt-anxiety, based on looking for a job and income worries. It was always worse on Monday mornings. My 45 years of conditioning to go to work was really in my face.I retired recently and I had exact same anxieties. What I did to correct this quirky trait was one Monday morning go on the back porch and spend the whole day reading a book on a comfy chaise-longue. I forced myself to stay there until I had finished, thinking affirmations all day long. It was a really a very good book and fun reading, I remember how nice it was basking in the California sun.
I replaced anxiety with pleasure. I no longer have this problem. I think affirmations normally take longer to be effective, but this shows how powerful they can be.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 11/26/2012 12:52:40 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 13:32:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus
Ace1:
I'm not sure I know what a trigger is! Every morning I sit down to get my shoes and socks on (not in that order) and when I get up my back is intense pain. Is that a trigger?
All the best.
So you are getting ready for work and go to a job that you hate and a boss you would love to punch in the face. BUT, you have to pay the bills, be responsible and be nice to the boss all day even though you inwardly resent all of this.
"But wait," you say, "I love my job and I have a great boss!"
To which I reply, thou dost protest too much.......
Know what I'm sayin?
We can be in such great denial and resist the truth of what it really taking place. We lie to ourselves constantly. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 15:52:31
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Hi Peregrinus,
Whether Shawn is right with his boss comment or Ace suggesting your getting hyped up for the day’s events are key suggestions, and it could be a mixture of both.
If your pain repeats like you say: “Every morning”. You definitely have a trigger of perhaps unknown origin. This is socks and shoes related for some reason. I don’t think it matters where the trigger came from or what the trigger is. IMHO
Tomorrow morning, put your socks and shoes on as usual, ignore the pain, but focus on those days of stress you had at work, truthfully affirming this is where your pain came from, and it’s not going to spoil your day’s activities of bike riding and drawing. To make this stick take your shoes and socks on and off repeatedly. It’s all about reconditioning your sub-conscious archives.
This may sound strange, but is the sort of things I have been doing lately, and feel better for it.
When leaving a stress full job to drive a 90 mile commute, I used to collapse when turning a specific stairwell at work. Just recognizing that this was caused by over work and a long drive I got rid of it. As Shawn says my denial was at a subconscious level.
Shawn, in the last years of my working career, I had a saying that I repeated to myself often:
“My job, my one and only job was to keep my job”. I never hit the boss and survived, but repressed I surely was.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 16:43:35
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I agreed with Ace1, it probably conditioning that Peregrinus is having. Morning coffee used to be my trigger, my conditioning. I love coffee and 4,5 cups a day with no problem. When I got tms/anxiety, one sip is enough to trigger a full blown panic attack or some sharp pain somewhere on my body.
Even when I got rid of my tms pain and my constant anxiety, coffee still trigger attacks. I overcame it by keep drinking it (exposure therary) at the same time telling myself: "coffee is panic trigger, but I'm not affraid, coffee is just pavlow's bell and panic is my saliva, nothing to be affraid of, just enjoy my coffee".
In a couple weeks the coffee no longer trigger my panic and I'm back to 3, 4 cups a day now with no problem.
When you sit down or bent down to put on your shock and tie your shoe, your brain interpret that as you are about to enter a dangerous situation and it produce fight or flight respond, or pain, or panic... You got to "tell" your brain you're no longer in danger and you're not affraid of the pain. You are healthy and at peace, and eventually your brain will listen.
Goodluck Peregrinus
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 17:04:49
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Hi Andy:
It doesn’t make any difference what I’m doing while seated in the morning: the second I get up
POW! I actually avoid sitting right after I get up just to avoid the pain. If I take a warm shower upon waking the back isn’t as sensitive. I’m certainly not straining myself sitting at the table and drinking my Murchie’s English Breakfast Tea. When I used to commute (about 60 miles) I would be in great pain getting out of the car.
I’m going to try following Ace’s recommendation and give myself a little pep talk after waking and then I’ll try to repeatedly sit and get up as you suggest.
How important is it to be able to identify the stress that is causing the TMS? My work stress is a thing of the past and I have forgiven all the numbskulls I had to deal with. I suspect that the stress of realizing that I’m not immortal is now driving my TMS. I also believe that this new stress was set off (about 8 years ago) when I learned I had heart disease and needed to have stents implanted.
All the best!
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 18:30:44
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| Ok this may be different than what most people say. In my perticular case if I was, let's say, in pain in my back going to work, if I were to bend with that already painful back, It would definitely hurt more. In this case I was in pain BEFORE I tried to bend and I was in pain because I was conditioned to the situation of going to work. Therefore, in this particular case, to just bend over and over was counter productive and not dealing with the root cause. Now if you were fine completely and pain free and it only hurt to bend, then in that case you may be conditioned to the bending in itself and then it may be helpful to do what was stated above in the other posts In my particular case, if I was pain free from an emotional standpoint, I had no pain with bending. Dr sarno says to do things you were afraid to do only after the pain was gone, just try to be normal, don't challenge the pain, get to being pain free first then you'll see that you'll naturally be able to do anything you want. I know some have overcome tms by challenging, but I wonder if they had a life change (job change, divorce etc) and now the only thing that was holding them back was fear of having a weak back etc, so they do more and they overcome. Another possibility is placebo, like how physical therapy works for some people. |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 19:47:52
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| i changed my conditioning to triggers by awareness-when i caught something that caused pain and i knew it shouldent, then; just by knowing that i caught the trigger(and that it was tms conditioning) was enough for me to heal |
Edited by - eric watson on 11/27/2012 01:41:44 |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 20:12:43
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Balto:
I didn't see your post earlier. What you say makes a lot of sense. I was never able to "connect the dots" and see this behavior as conditioning. I feel better already thanks to you, Ace1 and Andy.
Thanks for the help! |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 21:06:57
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Hi Ace1,
I believe I am the other person with a different view.
I am assuming Peregrinus’s pain is spontaneous and triggered by conditioning. He stated when he gets up his back is in intense pain. Some way he has to connect this with his emotions, what better time than when the actual pain occurs or right when it subsides? It does not have to be challenging, and I agree it should not be so. He has to gently deal with this pain any way to get on with his day, so why not use this opportunity.
Cseaser Milan uses this technique of instant recognition correcting dogs on the Dog Wisperer. I know we are not dogs-sorry!
Ace, I’ve come to terms with the reason for my back recovery when I challenged my pain by running through the most severe sciatica pain in 2000. I do agree you should not challenge pain, but I was desperate and had minimal TMS knowledge at the time. I can only assume I recovered for the last 12 years because it was my first realization of the “Truth and belief of TMS logic” or was it a 12 year placeboe? I don’t care, I’ll take any reason.
Peregrinus, I hope this helps? We really have a lot in common. We are retired and cynical. We are trying to put our stress jobs behind us even though we think we have. And my immortality became apparent when my appendix burst two years ago. I truly value the remaining time I have left, that’s why I am here.
Regards to both
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2012 : 05:18:55
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| Hi guys, I'm not saying he shouldn't tie his shoes, he should try to be normal. But does a normal person tie and untie his shoes 10 times? I also fully agree with balto, he said after his symptoms were gone, he was then only conditioned to drinking coffee, so at this point he ONLY had symptoms associated with drinking coffe, so coffee in this case definitely had to be deconditioned by the method he described. What I am saying though is if you are in pain already just apron waking up, but not just with an action or specfic substance then the main thing to decondition is the emotional situation, just like Andy did in when he sat in the sun. It would not be the right thing to try and use the affected body part more and more, just to use it or beat it. I did it this way at first and it impeded my progress |
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LuvtoSew
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2012 : 07:25:08
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Just reading all the posts, fear is a huge thing, and of course the bad stress, as we always have stress in our life, but its the stress we feel we have no control of, and sometimes when reading through these it sometimes sounds like pain maybe our friend, (not a good frined of course, like smoking was my best friend-was always there for me) but seems we all are very conscious of people, and yes i know I suffer from all 4 of these
do gooder, worrier, perfectionist and overly overconscientious
but we can't change can we, I do worry less now.
my husband who really should be in pain isn't, but he could careless what people think, and he is self imployed but stil has to please his customers, but when he gets pain he just ignores it and keeps on where I'm a whimp. |
Edited by - LuvtoSew on 11/27/2012 07:27:34 |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2012 : 07:34:00
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
I agreed with Ace1, it probably conditioning that Peregrinus is having. Morning coffee used to be my trigger, my conditioning. I love coffee and 4,5 cups a day with no problem. When I got tms/anxiety, one sip is enough to trigger a full blown panic attack or some sharp pain somewhere on my body.
Even when I got rid of my tms pain and my constant anxiety, coffee still trigger attacks. I overcame it by keep drinking it (exposure therary) at the same time telling myself: "coffee is panic trigger, but I'm not affraid, coffee is just pavlow's bell and panic is my saliva, nothing to be affraid of, just enjoy my coffee".
In a couple weeks the coffee no longer trigger my panic and I'm back to 3, 4 cups a day now with no problem.
When you sit down or bent down to put on your shock and tie your shoe, your brain interpret that as you are about to enter a dangerous situation and it produce fight or flight respond, or pain, or panic... You got to "tell" your brain you're no longer in danger and you're not affraid of the pain. You are healthy and at peace, and eventually your brain will listen.
Goodluck Peregrinus
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience.
this is a great reply balto-... for anyone suffering from tms |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2012 : 10:40:30
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Ace1,
I very much agree with Balto’s post also. Especially the term “exposure theory”. To get as much exposure as possible repetition is a great tool. A new person in denial is reluctant and does not know how to deal with triggers, so meditating the emotional stress while repeatedly taking shoes on and off two or three times would help. I don’t think it would be necessary to do it ten times though or beat up on my pain as you say.
I speak for myself when I say I would like to be normal, but I’m not. I have written, thought and acted many strange things over the years to deal with TMS and other personal problems. I remember when I gave up smoking I took to sucking cough sweets in great amounts to help with the craving. As a doctor you will understand why I had diarrhea for a week.Yuk, Yuk, but wait it’s been 43 years since I smoked.
Have a great day, I'm off to the gym.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 11/27/2012 10:42:23 |
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Stress
