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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
 Posted - 11/23/2012 : 20:38:04
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| thanks ace and ace i gotta say this to km118-you got it |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2012 : 08:17:35
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| Correct |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2012 : 09:25:04
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Just something to ponder: http://healthskills.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/safety-behaviours-do-they-maintain-kinesiophobia/
Once TMS/anxiety is accepted, then, as Sarno pointed out, fear will prevent a "cure" more than anything else. A dog will limp on an injured paw, but once healed, the animal has no emotional recall of the injury or anticipation of it recurring.
Humans do, and even though pain is known to be benign, with the acceptance of "knowledge therapy", the disuse or misuse (bracing, guarding, etc.) of the limb, back or entire body will cause physiological and biochemical change in the nerves, muscles and tendons. I think many people, especially those with years of pain, have to learn movement again, and this takes a special awareness. As Sarno says, you have to know what's going on in your body in order to affect a "cure". This means through the entire process of healing.
More attention, I think, and explanation of the "fear of movement" has to be incorporated into many who find themselves "stuck". For many, they have to know why their muscles are still stiff or hurt when restarting movement. Somebody or something has to explain the "why" of it. This is like a subset of the entire TMS/anxiety problem.
Probably stating the obvious to some, but for many in a panic first about the initiation of symptoms, and then about the symptoms again when they accept TMS/anxiety, it is not obvious.
Not even sure this makes sense, but it did to me.
Just my two chips thrown in.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 11/24/2012 09:32:53 |
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LuvtoSew
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 05:04:22
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No it makes perfect sense. Its like being on a merry go round, but with non use muscles do atrophy quickly so one must start out slowly but we do have a tendency to guard which one again causes pain. I do believe in good posture, not stick posture, but slumping is not good,
diabllity will be more prominent in the future with young kids now glued to the computer and TV unless they start making them exercise , they don't even have gym class in high schools anymore do they? Just rambling. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 08:11:01
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| I dont think posture has anything what so ever to do with it, its just when your doing something tedious, like playing a video game, or sewing, typing etc, you get tense bc of impatience, this leads to pain, but usually mistakenly attributed to the posture. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 13:35:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
I dont think posture has anything what so ever to do with it, its just when your doing something tedious, like playing a video game, or sewing, typing etc, you get tense bc of impatience, this leads to pain, but usually mistakenly attributed to the posture.
I was not focusing on posture aspect of the article, but fear or anxiety of movement, something Dr. Sarno insists must be overcome for a "cure".
Not every article is going to form-fit the TMS message, I know, but some have parts that are consistent, in my opinion, with the TMS idea.
As a doctor, you may know why muscles that are tight hurt when moved, after not being moved freely or strangely for sometimes literally years, or when under oxygen depredation, lack of blood flow, or whatever, but lay people do not. This scares the poop out of people who are trying to resume normal activity; then they stop in their tracks and ramp up the fear-anxiety-fear again. Okay, the thought is: the pain is benign, but "why" does it hurt. That's all. Helps to know.
Just saying the pain is "benign" to many, especially those who have been bedridden or unconsciously guarding or splinting a limb or part of their body for many years, for some, is not enough. Unless I am totally wrong, muscles can atrophy or have other changes from disuse or misuse, caused by the blood flow deficit or whatever.
Not one doctor ever told me, TMS doc or otherwise, that if this muscle is in spasm or tight due to tension or lack of blood flow, it will have this effect and you will feel like "X". They either told me I was a hopeless case, the allopathic docs, or, the TMS doc, that not to worry, you are perfectly healthy.
This is part of the TMS personality for some, as perfectionists of sorts. You just want more knowledge; that's all. More knowledge of the "why" is part of the cure.
The posture issue is besides the point. I don't believe it has anything to do with chronic pain, unless you live in a 3X5 box.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 11/26/2012 17:06:55 |
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LuvtoSew
USA
327 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 14:26:17
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Not posture then hey , when I was younger and had no extra money or sometimes ins. and I got an injury, sprain whatever I never went to the dr. I never seen a body worker till my early 50's and then I had money for alt treament and I must say I've gone downhill ever since. I'm the type everytime someone worked on me I got a new problem area,
I figures I was like the weak tower, and had many weak links and thats why I got a new pain area everytime I went to a new bodyworker.
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Edited by - LuvtoSew on 11/26/2012 14:44:53 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2012 : 21:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by LuvtoSew
...I never seen a body worker till my early 50's and then I had money for alt treament and I must say I've gone downhill ever since. I'm the type everytime someone worked on me I got a new problem area,
I figures I was like the weak tower, and had many weak links and thats why I got a new pain area everytime I went to a new bodyworker.
Well, if you ever do any bodywork again I wouldn't recommend Rolfing--maybe Reiki. 
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod
=================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2012 : 08:05:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
More attention, I think, and explanation of the "fear of movement" has to be incorporated into many who find themselves "stuck". For many, they have to know why their muscles are still stiff or hurt when restarting movement. Somebody or something has to explain the "why" of it. This is like a subset of the entire TMS/anxiety problem.
After I got rid of tms/anxiety, for a long time when I sit I still lean my weight on just one side of my hip, I still walk with less weight on one leg than the other, I still lift heavy weight with my leg bent at the "correct" position.... those are just habit, an automatic things my body would do, it's like my muscle have it's own memory bank and they will just do that on their own, without any instruction from my brain. It took me a while to teach myself to walk normal again, to sit normal again...
Good to see you back Back2it
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2012 : 16:43:07
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Hi Back2-it,
I was attracted to your link by the word kinesiophobia. I am nearly 65 and have never lifted weights before, so I recently got a personal trainer at my gym with a view to add weight lifting to my present swim routine. On his business card he has: BS Kinesiology CSUN.
I am unlike km118 who is seeking help with the initial “first fear of movement “that most of us have. However your post reminded me that Dr.Sarno stated we need to know what’s going on with our bodies in order to affect a cure.
I have been surprised about how little I know about how the muscles work to make the body function. I windsurf, do yoga, swim and am very active, and still knew very little about calories carbs and protein. I feel happy with my trainer’s explanations, and can now chat to my three sons who know more about this topic than I do!
The article also gives a good explanation of the difficulties I had starting exercising 12 years ago, and certainly should be considered as part of Dr Sarno’s “knowledge therapy”, Km118 you need to read it.
Thanks for posting it
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Back on Wiki Edu Program day 15
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted later.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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How to get back into an excercise regime?
