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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
 Posted - 10/14/2012 : 19:37:32
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There has been a lot especially by Ace, RSR, Balto & others on this subject & I came across this really excellent article which I hope will be useful.
http://www.shinzen.org/Articles/artPain.htm
One section talks about melting & freezing
Melting and Freezing
I'd like to say a few words about the phenomenon of "melting and freezing." Sometimes as you are observing and opening to the pain, you may experience the pain softening. Sometimes it softens just slightly, flowing like thick molasses or lava. Other times it may become quite fluid and vibratory, expanding and contracting like an amoeba or even breaking up into a shower of champagne bubbles and subtle energy like an atomizer spray. If that happens, enjoy it and concentrate on the vibrations and undulations, letting them relax you, massage you, and take you into a place of peace and safety
A friend of mine lives in Singapore & had breast cancer. She would wake up at 4 am & go meditate among the trees. She talked about feeling bubbles too & said it was wonderful.
Thx to those who have posted for & about me. I will reply shortly.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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Edited by - mala on 10/14/2012 19:44:54 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2012 : 20:09:05
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| Perhaps I am misunderstanding but this link seems to advocate the opposite of what those members are advocating -- this link says to focus ON the pain, and I thought the members were saying the key is NOT to focus on it. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2012 : 20:41:37
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| Yes, you are misunderstanding. Short term more focus, but with the purpose that the pain loses it's usual meaning, thereby reducing suffering. Very fine link, mala. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2012 : 20:59:59
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Well I could certainly use some clarification, because just today Ace1 posted:
"If you are in anyway occupied with the pain, you will lose your ground in treating it."
Isn't meditating focusing on the pain being "occupied with" the pain? I am not trying to be difficult just very confused.
Ace1 also posted this: "3. Giving attension to the symptoms (or challenging) makes you lose your ability to see that your emotionally uncomfortable."
Again, meditating focusing on the pain seems to me to be giving attention to the symptoms. I am really confused how these can be part of the same approach.
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Edited by - pspa123 on 10/14/2012 21:05:56 |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2012 : 21:27:59
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pspa123
I think what Ace means & he can correct me if I am wrong is that you should not be preoccupied with the pain in a way that it causes resistance. Fighting it for example, or straining against it will only cause the pain to worsen. There will always be a certain degree of preoccupation especially if the pain is severe. That's human nature. The focus in the article is different. It explains how to live with the pain without fighting it . It like retraining the brain, a kind of reconditioning if you like to the way we react to the pain.
Mindfulness meditation is a way of focusing awareness on the pain and observing it with precision, while at the same time opening up to it and dropping resistance.
Hope this helps.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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Edited by - mala on 10/14/2012 21:28:22 |
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Birdie78
Germany
145 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 01:58:39
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Pspsa, "focusing" on the pain while meditation just means to be aware of the pain just like being aware of other body-sensations, emotions and thoughts. Watch the pain or other emotions but don't get stuck into like you'd normally do ("oh no, there's a pain, it feels horrible, will it ever go away...ect"). Notice your pain and how it feels and then return to the anchor (normally your breath) and focus on it. If something comes into your mind again (and that will be the case) be aware of it, regard it and label it (as pain, fear, boredom or whatever's catching your attention) and then return to your anchor again. That has nothing in common with focusing on your pain and being afflicted by it like TMSers sometimes tend to do :-) This will help you to calm down and to "educate" your mind.
Kind regards from Germay sends Birdie |
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Cath
116 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 06:54:47
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Hi Mala
Thanks for this, it really helped me a lot to understand why when I have tried to meditate in the past, or simply relax into my pain, that it worsens, and becomes almost unbearable. The sensations it describes around the pain are with me constantly. In the past, when medics, or anyone for that matter have asked me to describe it, I have struggled to put across exactly what it is like. This article has actually helped me to clarify in my own head how my symptoms affect me, and to some extent expels a lot of the fear surrounding the symptoms. The resistance it talks about is the fear. When I have tried to relax into the pain in the past, thus dispelling the resistance, the magnitude of my pain has caused me additional fear. When I tried it again after reading the article, but instead thought about the escalation in pain as being a cleansing process, getting to the root of it, and recognising that it will be only temporary, my fear subsided. Less fear, less pain.
I have in the past thought that meditation or relaxation techniques were not for me, and that it probably was because it was difficult for me to ignore the pain, and that I was focussing on the pain as a result. But this makes me reconsider. I know that I constanly hold tension in my body, particularly around the jaw, neck and shoulders, and trying to relax in one position for any length of time is almost impossible. But perhaps looking at it from a different perspective, welcoming the increased pain for a short time, may help me to ultimately find a way of dispelling it altogether.
I have to say, that I am one of those Sarno followers who has been trying to dispell my pain for well over a year now. In that time, it has never shifted around, as some people talk about, or faded. I have not been able to reduce my meds either. Although, because I have been working on my emotional well-being, I am no longer depressed. I have a coping strategy, and have begun to enjoy my life again. I really feel the need to explore my spiritual well-being, and know that meditation would be good for me, so maybe this is the missing piece (or peace) for me.
Cath
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 18:31:48
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| So I briefly skimmed the article and I really don't agree with it fully. I totally agree with the acceptance part and actually you have to be aware that there is pain in order to know that you are somehow psychologically uncomfortable. It is also true that you can think about the pain and have no resistance and it shouldn't get worse. Focus is to make something the target of your intention and I don't know anyone who has gotten better by just meditating on the pain. If there is someone who has please let me know, bc i dont claim to know everything. I think it is better to just accept it, realize you are in an emotionally uncomfortable situation for some reason (try to see why in the big picture) and just act normal despite the pain while doing affirmations, not for fighting the pain, but to change your comfort with the situation for the future. It is also important not to strain into the first signs of pain, but to try to keep the area relaxed as you are normally functioning as best as you can. You can call this "functional relaxation". |
Edited by - Ace1 on 10/15/2012 18:59:20 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 19:25:51
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| Thank you. I thought these approaches were somewhat different. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 20:34:47
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I think the word meditation is like the word "music" , there are many type of musics and there are many type of meditations. (simple, tai chi, transcendental, mindfulness, walking, mantra, tumo,...) The basic ones help to quiet the mind. Help narrow our thoughts down to one. Help us have some control over what thought we allow to come into our mind. In the more advance technique and with lot of practice one subpose to be able to control what can exist in your mind and what not. One cam make changes to one's emotion or even changes to the body's temperature, blood flow, breathing rate, heart rate... (read Dr Herbert Benson's book)
With practice you can gain control of your thought, you can learn to be an observer instead of a victim. Tms happen to us because our body, our mind sensed something it thought is "dangerous" happened to us. That danger produced fear and trigger fight or flight respond, stress, anxiety, and tms... By doing meditation one can slowly take back control of one's thought and start to observe, start to think logical and start to realize that there is nothing dangerous. Just accept it, just make peace with it, the pain is just a rubber snake, it look scary but it is not real... with time, the mind recognize that the "danger" isn't real or we can live with it, we can have peace with it, and slowly the fear will lessen, the pain will leave...
Make peace with yourself, make peace with your pain and the symptoms will get better.
I have a hardtime doing meditation at the beginning. Lots of crazy thoughts just appear, sometime scary, sometime it make me more paranoid and I have to stop for awhile. With time one will get better result. Just don't force it. We can't "force" ourself to relax or meditate.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2012 : 20:40:26
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Cath. I'm pleased that the article helped. I found it very informative. I too have problems with my neck jaw & shoulders at the moment.
quote:
I have not been able to reduce my meds either. Although, because I have been working on my emotional well-being, I am no longer depressed. I have a coping strategy, and have begun to enjoy my life again. I really feel the need to explore my spiritual well-being, and know that meditation would be good for me, so maybe this is the missing piece (or peace) for me
If its not too personal may I ask what meds you are on. And could you tell us something more about yr coping strategies? That would be so helpful.
Ace,
quote:
I think it is better to just accept it, realize you are in an emotionally uncomfortable situation for some reason (try to see why in the big picture) and just act normal despite the pain while doing affirmations, not for fighting the pain, but to change your comfort with the situation for the future. It is also important not to strain into the first signs of pain, but to try to keep the area relaxed as you are normally functioning as best as you can. You can call this "functional relaxation".
I think if you read carefully you will find that the meditation helps to fulfill most of what you are talking about. By accepting the pain & focusing on it, you stop fighting it. The awareness you bring into the pain actually helps you to relax & accept it. Once you have acquired the skill you can bring it into whatever you are doing in the future thereby making it functional.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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Edited by - mala on 10/15/2012 20:46:29 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2012 : 04:49:06
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Hi mala,
I think it is very important to accept pain not fight it and its ok to be aware of it. It maybe best to say to not be preoccupied with the pain. Your right you don't want to push it away which is fighting. I never however started to think about what shapes and kind of pain it was - I don't see how that is helpful, I think I could see it giving the pain life or taking your attention away from why a situation is emotionally uncomfortable. Like i said if someone has recovered this way i would like to know. Now remember I said that you have to change the way you react to a typically uncomfortable situation. So when in pain now you have to be in peace in that situation instead of the typically uncomfortable state. I liken the pain to a check engine light. You are aware of it. If you focused on it alone or turned it off, the problem would still be there. If you thought the problem was the light itself, you would miss the fact that it was just the messenger. You kind of have to think of it as a simple messenger and you are thankful it's there but your work is not in the light but somewhere else. Once the problem is fixed the light will turn off. |
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Cath
116 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2012 : 08:51:21
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Hi Mala
I currently take a hefty dose of Neurontin or Gabapentin as it's sometimes called. I have ditched all painkillers in favour of this drug which my neurologist informed me works in the brain, and changes your perception of pain (it just takes the edge off by numbing the painful areas). I have tried to reduce my dosage on a couple of occasions, but the pain became too acute, and basically, life wasn't worth living. I also allow myself 2 mgs of diazepam in the evening, which helps to relax the muscles in my jaw and neck, as by early evening they are so tighly clenched, it's impossible to relax them. My aim is to come off these drugs altogether, because I know that taking them is reinforcing the belief that there is something wrong with me, but as yet I have been unsuccessful in this area.
I saw many health professionals before coming across the TMS theory, and as a result I have adopted some other habits, which are also probably not consistent with the TMS theory, but are soothing nonetheless. I take two baths a day. One in the morning to help alleviate any overnight stiffness, and one in the early evening when my pain is at its worst. I put a healthy dose of bath minerals in my evening bath, and afterwards apply magnesium oil to my sore shoulders and neck area. I buy the magnesium oil from a health store, and a physiotherapist told me that athletes use it for stiff muscles. It works very well on my sore shoulders. There are some who may say this is placebo, but placebo or not, it works for me, and is soothing. After my evening bath I take my diazepam and watch TV for a couple of hours before bed. I have also changed my diet over the last couple of years, which I still keep up because it has certainly given me a lot more energy, and is healthier anyway. I don't eat anything white, ie white rice, bread or potatoes, and never eat cakes, biscuits or chocolate. I don't drink alcohol, coffee or tea, and only drink herb tea, or redbush tea. I eat a lot of fruit and veg, and only lean meat and fish. I do however, have dairy, as in probiotic goat's yoghurt and cheese.
During the day, I am very active - walking my dog, cleaning the house, cooking, shopping etc. And any spare hours I have are spent reading or drawing. I cannot read or draw in the evening, as that head bent over my work or book position is too much for my already tired jaw, neck and shoulders. I have tried on many occasions, expecially if I have a particularly good book which I can't put down, but it ususally ends up in a sleepless night, because I just can't relax the muscles however hard I try, not even with deep breathing techniques, which I do periodically throughout the day.
I repeat affirmations, and there is always a copy of SteveO's book or Dr Sarno's on the coffee table, but I realise that I have a way to go before I am completely indoctrinated in the Sarno theory, however much I want to be, because as is often repeated here on the forum, there has to be complete belief, and cessation of old habits, which perpetuate thoughts that there is still something medically wrong.
I have been in talk therapy for the last couple of months, which is really helping me to find myself again. After a lifetime of doing things for other people in my life, I now have the time to do something for myself, and I was at a loss to know what the heck to do, and I think it's helping me to work things out. I am still a work in progress, but I never lose sight of that day when I can say that I have no pain. My first goal is to have just a few waking moments.
Cath |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2012 : 02:20:26
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Cath, thank you for replying in such detail. My doc gave me neurontin many years ago for my back but apart from making me very zombie like did nothing at all. Oh I also gained weight from it nearly 20 pounds. It took forever to lose.
My dentist prescribed me 2 mg Valium 5 days ago for a week for my jaw pain but i only take it at night when sleeping. It knocks me out completely within 10 mins for the whole night & I feel tired the next day so I'm going to talk to him about it when i see him on Friday. Is Valium addictive? Does one get withdrawal symptoms when stopping?
As for all the other things you do, I say keep at it. There is nothing wrong with making yourself comfortable. Its important for your sanity. Have you ever tried tiger balm plasters on your shoulder/neck. They are completely natural & work well for many people.
quote:
I repeat affirmations, and there is always a copy of SteveO's book or Dr Sarno's on the coffee table, but I realise that I have a way to go before I am completely indoctrinated in the Sarno theory, however much I want to be, because as is often repeated here on the forum, there has to be complete belief, and cessation of old habits, which perpetuate thoughts that there is still something medically wrong.
Have you had a professional diagnosis that keeps you from believing that it is tms?
I'm so glad that therapy is helping you.
Take care & hope you are pain free soon.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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Cath
116 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2012 : 06:47:43
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Hi Mala
Neurontin made me feel very drowsy at first, but that side affect wore off after a while. I know it's going to be hard to come off this drug because you have to titrate down slowly, as it often gives a painful withdrawal. So I'm building up the courage to try again.
Valium is very addictive, and my doctor will only prescribe it to those most in need. I believe it's fine in small 2mg doses, and you're not likely to become addicted with this small amount, even if you took it on a regular basis. Sleep is very important to me. I had a long period of sleepless nights, which only helped to increase my pain, and ultimately more anxiety about the pain. So I do everything I can to make sure I have a good 7 - 8 hours of healing sleep every night.
I will look out for tiger balm plasters - I'm always up for anything that is natural and soothing.
I had a TMS diagnosis from Georgie Oldfield, who is the leading TMS Therapist here in the UK. The medics call my symptoms TMJ, Chronic Myofascial Pain, and sometimes Fibromyalgia, all of which are on Dr Sarno's list of TMS. I had already had all the regular medical tests - MRIs etc., but they only found normal wear and tear for someone of my age.
I completed a 6 week TMS course with Georgie at the beginning of this year, which did improve my state of mind, but not the pain. Journalling doesn't seem to work for me either, neither do affirmations. I think my problems need to be heard, and that is why I am trying the talk therapy. It is making me feel a lot better about myself and life in general has a rosier glow to it, so hopefully the pain will fade too, eventually.
I hope you find some relief from your own problems too very soon.
Cath |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2012 : 20:08:09
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I urge you both to be careful with valium even though it's a small dose and you'll probably be OK and it won't be too hard to come off. If you find yourself needing to increase it to maintain effect, that's a warning sign.
I can relate 100 percent to that feeling of muscles being so contracted that they just won't release. I live in that nightmare of neck muscle pain most of the time, even though I know there is nothing "wrong" with it structurally. And like you and others here, the methods that seem to have worked for many others have not worked for me yet. |
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Cath
116 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2012 : 05:07:23
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Hi pspa123
Thanks for the warning about Valium. By the way I have sent you a reply.
Cath |
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mchan
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2012 : 10:55:55
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In the article it says, "But as the result of a long conditioning process, human beings have also developed another part of ourselves, "resistance." Resistance interferes with that energy wave, fights against it, tries to beat it back. Thus deep within our being there is a kind of violent conflict, a veritable civil war between two parts of the same system.
This produces a pressure called "suffering." Since suffering is produced by one part of you fighting with another part of you, there is obviously a deep link between the physical process of learning to experience pain without suffering and the psychological process of becoming more integrated."
Does this mean by ignoring my pain and doing all the activities i normally would, I am creating more suffering by going against it? |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2012 : 18:15:33
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Hi Mala,
I read the whole lengthy article, thanks for posting. It gave me a good understanding of the ‘whys and hows’ of mindfully meditating pain.
I started accepting and viewing my pain differently in April this year, and this article warms me to trying meditating further.
mchan,
In answer to your question:
By ignoring your TMS pain and being active you reduce its power.
You rise above it.
You are saying it is not important.
You are just accepting it.
Three of Dr. Sarno’s daily reminders remind us of your question.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
Part of your suffering is not being active.
Andy |
Edited by - andy64tms on 10/18/2012 18:18:44 |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2012 : 18:19:26
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There is suffering in this world & we will all suffer one way or the other. That is life. There is mental suffering, physical suffering, all kinds of suffering. Siddhartha's parents tried to protect him by creating a world of pleasure within the palace walls & forbade him to go outside .He was married to a beautiful princess & had a lovely baby boy.
But nothing could stop the yearning that he had to know what was happening outside & when he sneaked out, he saw pain, disease & death. When asked about it he was told that suffering was inevitable.
It was then that he decided to give up all worldly attachments & he went in search of truth & enlightenment. Siddhartha became Buddha.
Enlightenment simply means to stop fighting yourself, stop the conflict that is being created by yourself.
That is what meditation is all about. You can have pain but you don't have to suffer.
Not easy but that's the general idea.
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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Acceptance & meditating on the pain
