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balto

839 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2012 :  21:05:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Rage, to me, tms and stress are similar or the same. They both are negative and unpleasant to our health. You can read up more about stress and its effect at: http://www.stress.org/stress-effects/ , It's symptoms are very much the same as tms. I saw many of my old symptoms on that list. (and your's too).

We can be expert in tms, anxiety, stress... but if we don't know how to elliminate, minimize, or accept stress, it will hurt us. I found Dale Carnegie's writing is one of the best in dealing with stress and worry.

------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience.
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tennis tom

USA
4688 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  07:59:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your ability to "heal", if what ails you is TMS, is entirely based on your belief that there is nothing physically wrong with you and that it is all "in your head" or more correctly in your MINDBODY. Dr. Sarno had such a high cure rate, for those he pre-selected to be amenable to this idea, because he could convey the TMS concept with such great confidence and instill belief into his patients. It's the power of suggestion. It's pretty much as simple as that. I've seen this in my own life when I go to a doc for a check-up and they tell me I'm in perfect health. I walk out of the doc's office feeling great!. On the other hand if I'm told by a chiro-quack-ter that there appears to be a tumor on my x-ray (that turned out to be my left testicle) I felt like death warmed-over.

We live in an age where for many of us civilians doctors are our priests and science is our religion. They bestow us with the white-coat imprimatur. TRUTH emanates from the clinical study, the best ones come from the oracle of Europe. We personally have never studied the study but the media choir has give us a synopsis after they have pored over the the truth for at least several martinis--then we swallow a pill for it and go on our happy way--for a while at least, unless we're trapped by our lives and another thing goes wrong--back to the ol' waiting room to wait.

I've mentioned the Good Doctor Sarno to several physicians and even lent them the book to no interest. TMS would mess up the orderly waits in the waiting room--who's got time to hear someone's life story, there are emergencies waiting. The docs know that some of this is in the head, they are the patients who keep coming back, setting up camp and nothing structural can be found wrong with them--they are nutz!

Cheers

Edited by - tennis tom on 10/17/2012 09:38:42
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balto

839 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  08:15:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom

Your ability to "heal", if what ails you is TMS, is entirely based on your belief that there is nothing physically wrong with you and that it is all "in your head" or more correctly in your MINDBODY.


I totally agreed with tt's post above.
All the tms/anxiety books out there, all the techniques out there all try to help us to achieve that one goal.

Our brain is like a computer. When we input good instruction we got good working computer. When we input bad instruction we get bad result, sometime virus and bugs.
We put bad thoughts into our mind and our system will malfunction, good thoughts will cure it.



------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience.
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Ace1

USA
1040 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  08:58:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Makes sense, Arlene Feinblat said that she thought the majority of the people who get better quick realize that there was nothing wrong with them, through dr sarno, when that was their biggest concern in their life and this was enough to free them of their pain. I think for most of the people in this forum this is not enough and they have to go through what I have outlined including the affirmations to get better. It was for sure not enough for me, I needed what I wrote above.
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eric watson

USA
601 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2012 :  18:24:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i know its all in my head. -thats why i work it out in my head and it heals my body-i believe when people hear its all in your head -they think im not making this up-no not that kinda all in your head-its repressed emotions all in your head and body i should say-when their acknowledged or gone thru like ace has outlined and worked on like steveo says and worked at like the good doc and so many others have talked about on this forum then the healing begins-its been told thousands of times-just never taken literally-when we take these great works as the truth/ miracles happen-i know ive studied for years all the greats-hill,carnegie,peale,joeseph murphey, and so forth -i just for some reason couldnt put a finger on it -but sarno did and here we are -thanks for all your help to all the veterans and novices alike-god-bless

Edited by - eric watson on 02/24/2013 20:22:39
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RageSootheRatio

Canada
430 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2012 :  13:31:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ace,

thanks again for your replies to this thread ... I continue to mull over your thoughts at great length actually!

quote:

Rsr how would you abort your headaches at will, was it by just thinking something that bothered you that you may have written down as suggested on the divided mind? You didn't try to relax yourself or make a link to what was bothering you at that time?



Trying to "relax myself" never worked for me ... the "trying" just created MORE stress, actually, and I think I had kind of experience that Dr Sarno talks about in HBP (p 19): Unless the relaxation process succeeds in reducing repressed anxiety and anger, people will develop things like TMS and tension headaches despite the attempt to induce relaxation."

How I aborted my headaches was kind of mysterious to me, actually. I would notice a headache coming on; I would sometimes just review my (previously created) list of things that were enraging/upsetting to me; sometimes I would journal in the moment, about something on my "Sarno list" (ie I wasn't really linking it up to anything that seemed to be bothering me *at the time*... just something on "the list") and then the headache would just be gone, some minutes later. This didn't happen EVERY time, but often enough that it really gave me some confidence I was on the right track!

Since your posts I have been thinking more about how I deal with "tension" .. the mental strain I feel. I am AWARE of the mental strain, and for example, how my tongue is tense. When I try to relax my tongue, it has very little effect, actually. But if I focus on how stressed out I FEEL, how anxious I really am about life, how afraid, and then if I LET that feeling kind of FLOW through my body, rather than trying to NOT feel it, (which is why I think I tense up my tongue, as a way to kind of "block" (repress?!!) the feeling)... then my tongue kind of "automatically" "lets go" by itself, in a way. It's a little hard to explain .. but somehow it needs something deeper than just trying to behaviourally relax the tongue ... I notice that over the last day or two, the "tingling" sensations in my hands and feet have also gotten better, as I let myself FEEL more. I hope this makes some sense!

Thanks Balto, for the link and for your encouragement also. I appreciate everyone's posts on this very interesting thread!

RSR
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eric watson

USA
601 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2012 :  14:15:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
are you basicly reading your journals and remembering your thoughts from your journal and accepting them -then you get re-lief,ive noticed when i re-read my journals i feel better or if i just think about the repressed thoughts ive stumbled upon while journalling or talking or just about to sleep -and i ponder on these ill notice a huge tension re-lease...... as Ace1 said if you have symptoms dont let them bother you....RSR youve been here a while do you have steps like ace does..

Edited by - eric watson on 12/17/2012 18:29:13
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RageSootheRatio

Canada
430 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2012 :  23:10:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unlike some others, I guess I found the journalling suggestions from Dr Sarno helpful. Although I had done a LOT of journalling at other times in my life and since, none of it was really for the express purpose of healing from chronic pain. And it did seem to work for me (reading past journal entries, creating new ones), in terms of aborting headaches. However, I can't say I was ever really "cured" ALL the way, which is what I am trying to do, now! In some ways I think as other things in my life have gotten better, now I also want better and more health, so I am wanting to take things to another level ... I just want MORE! :o) I don't have any "list" of my own, in terms of what will or won't work for me ... I am still very much experimenting to see, and feeling rather uncertain these days, as it is a very high stress time in my life.

Ace1 wrote, in his Recovery story: (which is posted here:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7664 And thanks again for posting it, Ace1!)
quote:

I however based on the way my mind works tried to apply dr sarnos work literally and believed that I didn't have to change anything and all I had to do is ignore the pain and think of the things that were bothering me. Well I found that was really not correct.


I think this is what I didn't understand too, because I also tried to apply Dr Sarno's work literally and as I said, it did seem to work in terms of the headaches, but I never got too much farther than that.

quote:
Ace1 (Recovery Story, continued): I did have to change the way I reacted to things with a sense of more relaxation of my mind. It was also better for me to think good thoughts and good ideas about what was bothering me instead of just thinking of the negative alone. It took me a while to figure this out and thus a couple years had elapsed. I knew my problem had stemmed from my having made myself revved up from always being in a rush, but I didn't know how to reverse it.


It has been more than a couple of years for me, in terms of figuring out that I DO have to change if I want MORE. It is hard for me to understand what the core problem is for me, that results in multiple symptoms... probably a very difficult and traumatic past, chronic hyperarousal, some big internal conflicts I don't know how to resolve, etc etc ... if I have to heal all of that, then I'm not feeling too hopeful this can be accomplished any time soon! But I would definitely say that the more I can let my emotions "flow through" my body, rather than trying to not-feel them by tensing up in one way or another, then it seems I have better days ...

I do wonder whether the whole "secret" is really just to find peace inside, no matter what. :o)

And by whatever means truly works for us, as individuals.

RSR

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Ace1

USA
1040 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2012 :  08:58:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi RSR, the other day I was thinking and I wonder if the following is the way journaling and "the list" dr sarno talks about works in some people. You can tell me if you concur when you look back to your own experience to tell me if you find this to be true. I think what happens is when someone thinks or writes about something that bothers them, but then has more positive thoughts about the experience, or if they are in a more relaxed state, that deconditions the person to that situation. It kind of presents the scary situation in a not so scary setting and it helps the person to get used to the idea. With repeated practice, when the person encounters these siutations again, it is no big deal to the unconscious mind and thus, no need for further symptoms. I think it also move the attention to something else. This along with not being afraid of the symptoms anymore helps the person get better.
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eric watson

USA
601 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2012 :  10:30:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks RSR,that was a blessing. Ace1 i believe you hit the nail on the head with that last question to rsr- man ...talk about understanding-it dont get any better...that is exactly how journaling works for me....and i do have those uh-huh moments while journaling that i know that was a repressed thought,because of the tension re-lease,not all the time but about 4 times in ten weeks -so i know im on the money-thanks again Ace1 for this thread.

Edited by - eric watson on 12/20/2012 15:57:14
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balto

839 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2012 :  06:57:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1

Hi RSR, the other day I was thinking and I wonder if the following is the way journaling and "the list" dr sarno talks about works in some people. You can tell me if you concur when you look back to your own experience to tell me if you find this to be true. I think what happens is when someone thinks or writes about something that bothers them, but then has more positive thoughts about the experience, or if they are in a more relaxed state, that deconditions the person to that situation. It kind of presents the scary situation in a not so scary setting and it helps the person to get used to the idea. With repeated practice, when the person encounters these siutations again, it is no big deal to the unconscious mind and thus, no need for further symptoms. I think it also move the attention to something else. This along with not being afraid of the symptoms anymore helps the person get better.



this sounded like Exposure therapy to me. If we mentally prepare ourself then slowly and frequently expose ourself to the thing we fear or affraid, those fear feeling become less and less.

I found that journaling work great when dealing with difficulty in life (like loosing a job, financial difficulty...) but not when dealing with some issue that create anger (for me atleast). Reliving the event that produced anger in the past usually produce new anger feeling inside me, which is not very helpful. Not until I learned about forgiveness and compassion. I also found that somehow forgive people who did wrong to me is much easier than forgiving myself.

------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience.
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balto

839 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2012 :  15:21:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ace1, what do you think about affirmation only work in one's native language? I have live in the US for years but no matter how much affirmation I do in English, I've found that it didn't work as well as if I do it in my native language. I have not master the English language but I do understand every words I've use but it still don't work. I found that interesting.

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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience.
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Ace1

USA
1040 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2012 :  20:42:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I personally did not like journaling for me it was not a high yield activity to my recovery and I stopwd doing it after trying it a little bit. . I just was speculating on why it may work for some.

Although I don't know for sure, I do think saying it in your native language probably would make sense to be more effective. We are dealing with reprogramming of the unconscious mind and I would think by commanding it with words it knows best would work the best.
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RageSootheRatio

Canada
430 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2012 :  11:51:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ace,

quote:

You can tell me if you concur when you look back to your own experience to tell me if you find this to be true. I think what happens is when someone thinks or writes about something that bothers them, but then has more positive thoughts about the experience, or if they are in a more relaxed state, that deconditions the person to that situation. It kind of presents the scary situation in a not so scary setting and it helps the person to get used to the idea. With repeated practice, when the person encounters these siutations again, it is no big deal to the unconscious mind and thus, no need for further symptoms. I think it also move the attention to something else. This along with not being afraid of the symptoms anymore helps the person get better.


Hmmm.... I had a list of upsetting/enraging /depressing things about my life, and when I read through that list which ended with an accompanying list of what was truly reasonable to expect of myself given that list/ my past, then yes, I felt more self-compassion and was able to "relax" around it in a way.

So I would say that it "released some stress" but at a deeper level than just say, "relaxing" the tension in my face muscles or neck or something like that. It seemed to get through to my autonomic nervous system, in a more helpful way than just releasing some surface muscle tension. Hope that makes sense.

Now that you've gotten me thinking about this, I am wondering if I should go back to USING my "list" more regularly, because I think I have not quite "deconditioned" myself to the chronic (internal) stress of expecting too much from myself.

RSR
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stayfit65

54 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2012 :  12:56:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ace,

Do you think it is harder for someone who has limited alone time due to jobs and family responsibilities to heal? I scarcely have an hour alone every day to focus on these keys...I have made a good bit of progress sine April, but lately it seems like a lot of "steps forward and back." Do you in your opinion think it will take a little longer for someone like me to heal? Is there something good I can listen to in my car that might help me with self affirmations? Like a good CD? Thx everyone!!!
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shawnsmith

Czech Republic
2048 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2012 :  14:57:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1

I think somehow the repeated thought of that it is physical or the need to challenge it is in itself a form of TMS.



Yes, I agree with this observation also. Dr. Sarno has stated over and over again that the symptoms act as a distraction away from hidden emotions generated by personality traits, past trauma and current stresses. If we are obsessing about our symptoms and constantly "checking" our progress to see if we are getting better or not, then we are focusing on the physical and falling into a common TMS trap.

The thought "I am going to bend over now or go for a walk or run etc with a view to challenging the pain" keeps one in a cycle of obsessing about the symptoms because the focus is still on the symptoms and not the underlying source of the symptoms. It is better to have the thought, "I am going to bend over now or go for a walk or run etc because it is good for my overall health, I enjoy participating in these activities and I need the fresh air." If you are doing these things to recover and, as ACE1 said, challenge the symptoms, you are actually undermining your efforts. We have all fallen into this trap.

As Tennis Tom said, "Your ability to "heal", if what ails you is TMS, is entirely based on your belief that there is nothing physically wrong with you and that it is all "in your head" or more correctly in your MINDBODY."

Edited by - shawnsmith on 03/01/2013 06:11:26
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Ace1

USA
1040 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2012 :  17:13:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Exactly Shawn we have all fallen into the trap of challenging our symptoms bc of our tms personalities. Stayfit, yes it will probably take you longer unlike people who gave quit a job etc, but don't let me set you up for a longer time of recovery but it may give you comfort why it may take longer for you as you have a reason why. I don't know or personally haven't listened to a cd on affirmations that I know is good. However the book mind power into the 21st century is very good and is a quick easy read. A cd that is helpful but doesn't have it all in there is the power of now, but it doesn't talk about affirmations.
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tennis tom

USA
4688 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2012 :  18:04:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stayfit65

Is there something good I can listen to in my car that might help me with self affirmations? Like a good CD?



Here's some I listened to while driving or stuck in traffic over and over again until I pounded in the TMS fundamentals and dear Dr. Donald Dubin (now deceased) is on them.

http://www.amazon.com/MindBody-Audio-Program-David-Schechter/dp/1929997086/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


==================================================

DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g

TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale

Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605

==================================================

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti

"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown

"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst

"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto

"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================

"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod

=================================================

TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035


Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm

Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist


Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html

Edited by - tennis tom on 11/05/2012 18:06:10
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Wavy Soul

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2012 :  21:53:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fabulous Ace1 - what a treat to read this after months off the Forum. (Second "your" in #3 should be "you're" - = short for you are - , though!)

Si Balto, es mejor hacer las afirmaciones en su idioma original or at least in both languages.

Hello again, folks. What a long strange trip I've been on. Will post soon, but I think it will be evidence for many of the points Ace1 made here.

Re the doctors thing: I don't see how they CAN start calling things TMS. It's just not as simple as that, for them. They are like the joke at the end of Annie Hall, when Woody Allen says his brother-in-law thought he was a chicken, and no one told him he wasn't because they needed the eggs.

I go to a very nice and intelligent MD, with natural rather than heavy drug leanings, who balances my hormones, and so on. I have had extreme, debilitating fatigue for years which TMS work hasn't resolved, so I definitely do have questions and do blood tests. I need to describe symptoms to her, but then she starts talking about Lymes or something and I say STOP. She is used to my slightly ambivalent-seeming approach, but we find our way with each other, after many years. It would be ridiculous for me to waste my paid time trying to educate her, when I'm there for her very physical-reductionist perspective.

Anyway, hi everyone.




Love is the answer, whatever the question
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Ace1

USA
1040 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2012 :  10:53:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wavy, if you replace my "your" for "you are" in #3, it wouldnt make any sense. Go back and try it and youll see. BTW, Balto is vietnamese, not hispanic. I'm glad you liked my post
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