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robbie86
7 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2012 : 13:01:12
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Hello all. Extremely relieved to find this forum.
I have had very chronic back pain since about March. It all started when I woke up a day after a dance competition... life had been going great until about then. I was excelling at school, having a lot of hobbies and just finishing up an undergraduate degree in Computer Science. All of a sudden, I had a huge pain as I walked towards the shower and found that it really hurt to sit down. I continued to exercise since it didn't seem to affect my strength or movement but the pain got progressively worse to the point where I stopped. When I went to the doctor's office, I was shrugged off and told it was a muscle spasm, given relaxants and ibuprofen and told to come back in a month. A month later, I was told to wait another month before I could finally see my primary care doctor where I had been given piriformis stretches(which oddly enough seemed to work at first). Gradually though, the pain got worse and worse until I could no longer sit. I had one last summer semester and thankfully made it out but I have been really scared to go back to work, have stopped dancing and basically overall have a huge anxiety.
Sometimes I have more pain than at other times, but I notice that when I sit down and write code, I can barely focus because I have this general tight nagging pain in my back. Over the last 3 months or so I've tried absolutely everything, and after having an inconclusive MRI(2 very minor bulging discs) and Xray was puzzled. I had an epidural I was in so much pain for a bit that I laid on the floor for a week.. I think that was about my rock-bottom.
I've since made the diagnosis of TMS about 3 weeks ago.. while I've gotten slightly better since I am trying not to fear things so much, I still find myself obsessing over the problem and am a bit worried since I haven't done any work on projects and have lost touch with most things... have not been very social in quite some time due to depression and also because I can't fully participate in my interests(learning languages, which I would usually do sitting, coding and dancing). I am about to possibly start a full time internship and am in graduate school at night so I am freaking out a bit.. lost an internship this summer although it was very accomodating. I'm just wondering.. has anyone kind of gotten this sort of anxiety of everything and how do you deal with it when you have to sit down to work? Even though no matter how much you I tell myself it is not a structural problem, the pain is pretty distracting. I was also wondering if anyone has gotten the courage to live more or less their normal life since going through something like this. Thanks a lot for listening. |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2012 : 16:24:37
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Did you have a workup? Any advice on TMS given should be assumed the person has been tested. But if you have, it sounds like a garden variety TMS case, Phase-4, After Storm (after competition, and school). The time of retribution for the energy previously demanded.
The piriformis stretches often work short term because the mind is focused on the task. But as with most placebo effects they tend to wear off since the root cause remains.
Everyone has had fears with TMS, it's universal, and is the brain's effective strategy. It wants you to fear, to worry, to lock onto your body in obsessive focus. That's how it handles anxiety and anger.
Some of us have built the courage to live a normal life after harrowing ordeals, and some are trying to. The key is in the degree of belief. You can understand TMS and believe it at the conscious level, but that's only step one. It's when you finally believe it at the unconscious level that it works. And of course that means you have no more fear. That takes belief.
Good luck
Steve |
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robbie86
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2012 : 19:09:09
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Thanks a lot for your thoughtful reply, SteveO! That is very good advice, although I am not sure what a "work up" is. I have been gradually getting slightly better for the last month or so. I start working full time on Monday which I'm a little bit apprehensive about(as I am also in graduate school at night.. which has thankfully been easy and flexible enough that I have had no trouble surviving with... though not studying the way I should) -- I still find myself very distracted by the pain while sitting which aside from lack of concentration causes me to procrastinate more than I used to. I am basically certain now that it is non-structural since I have challenged the pain and sat for long periods of time without it getting worse outside of the general pain; helps for the diagnosis(although in general, i do have more and less severe days).
I recently read a book called "Dissolving Pain"(available on Amazon), and while it is different from Sarno's it has many similarities. I find that the focus exercises help learn to train the brain away from the physical side of things which Sarno advocates. The only difference I am finding is that it does not emphasize addressing emotions and instead focuses on attention and awareness to diffuse the pain. I think both of these have been valuable and since reading have been finding lately that focusing away from the pain, being more empathetic and acting as if there is no pain is actually helping a lot with generally being "functional" again which I guess is the most important in the end.
Well anyway, I am a bit anxious because of the responsibilities I'm going to have soon(after this whole "summer of TMS" taking enough of my life. Although I am greatful to have found this at the time I did! God knows where I'd be at this rate) but there is definitely some improvement. Any coherence there might be in this lengthly post is proof of that. I'm becoming more and more positive that things will resolve themselves over time. Will continue to post progress! |
Edited by - robbie86 on 09/22/2012 19:11:17 |
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robbie86
7 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2012 : 04:31:27
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Hi all. Just wanted to update you again. Turns out I didn't have tms, it was an actual neuropathy. After all of the books I've read(over and over), mindfulness and meditation, letting go, journaling whatever the pain was persistent 24/7. I did figure it was a little funny that after finishing 2 degrees while in the military in 5 years that I would get back pain from "stress"... heh. I decided not to give up after going with the mind body approach for a long time, went back to my doctor and got prescribed an SNRI to deal with the associated depression and possibly the pain. After a week and a half, almost all of my pain and stiffness is gone! I didn't realize how much the pain tinted my experiences, feels really different to be able to just focus. I am not on a high enough dose or have been on long enough for it to work for mood related problems so the only thing I can narrow it out to be would be the meds. Ive tried others like neurontin and muscle relaxants, etc... guess it was just matter of finding the right one :D I'd highly suggest if nothing else works and you've done everything else and are otherwise in good health you consult a doctor about it. Psychiatrists dont yet understand how it works but apparently your brain can just go into overdrive with some chemicals and my pdoc has told me he's had experiences where it has reversed. I'm not trying to put the TMS theory down or something since I do believe it works for many, but there are just some cases that really are physiological or at least caused by something out of whack so it never hurts to keep an open mind.
I know a lot of people with success stories don't come back(although this forum is usually a nice exception) so just wanted to be one of the people who did. good luck everyone! |
Edited by - robbie86 on 11/22/2012 04:51:55 |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2012 : 09:33:19
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| robbie-how long have you practiced tms healing? |
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robbie86
7 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2012 : 10:20:08
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| About a month the first time, 3 months the second. I found that Sarnos methods help to cope with the pain, but never lessoned the actual physical pain I had outside of it being a little less noticable when optimistic/positive. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2012 : 13:40:13
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quote:
Originally posted by robbie86
..Hi all. Just wanted to update you again. Turns out I didn't have tms, it was an actual neuropathy.
... went back to my doctor and got prescribed an SNRI to deal with the associated depression and possibly the pain. After a week and a half, almost all of my pain and stiffness is gone!
Hi Robbie, congratulations on your cure! I'm not very familiar with "neuropathies", I've heard of diabetics having them in their feet. Where was yours? How did your doctor treat your neuropathy or did the anti-depressants take it away? What country are you in?--that's a long wait suffering to see a doc. In the USA, I can just drop in to my doc's office without an appointment and be seen immediately--well after reading a page or two in a magazine.
Happy Thanksgiving |
Edited by - tennis tom on 11/22/2012 13:41:19 |
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robbie86
7 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2012 : 15:21:26
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| Hey Tennis Tom. Thanks, and happy Thanksgiving to you too! I have it in my lower back, but also goes down to my foot and causes a very funny feeling when the bottom of my foot touches the floor. It isn't gone(and the effect of the medicine has diminished a bit), but I have to tiltrate the dose up to about 4x what it is now ideally and there's a lot of relief so its not something to stress about. It is actually just an anti depressant. I was prescribed Effexor. It targets serotonin and norephedrine, although at low doses(current), it only affects serotonin. While both are known as the "feel good" and focus/attention chemicals, it also regulates how nerves send pain sensations but its not yet understood how it works. There are others that are said to be a bit more effective such as Cymbalta but it was a random draw I guess. I was seeing doctors for a looong time but decided to stop for a while and try a completely holistic/mind/body approach. Unfortunately the only health insurance I have at the moment is with the veteran's affairs(although.. hey its fortunate because its much better than nothing outside of the wait times!). Best of luck. Happy Holidays to everyone. |
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robbie86
7 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2012 : 20:43:23
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| About a month the first time, 3 months the second. I found that Sarnos methods help to cope with the pain, but never lessoned the actual physical pain I had outside of it being a little less noticable when optimistic/positive. |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2012 : 19:03:10
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| how are you doing now robbie86-is the pain all gone? |
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robbie86
7 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2012 : 19:55:41
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quote:
Originally posted by eric watson
how are you doing now robbie86-is the pain all gone?
Unfortunately not, but in any case the effexor is the only thing that has helped so far(at least to the point where I can do my work). I will be tiltrating up slowly but it causes an initial fog/disorientation so I have to take it a bit slowly(also, have to get a refill since I wasn't prescribed enough to increase dosage yet -_-) |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2012 : 20:27:27
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quote:
Originally posted by robbie86
quote:
Originally posted by eric watson
how are you doing now robbie86-is the pain all gone?
Unfortunately not, but in any case the effexor is the only thing that has helped so far(at least to the point where I can do my work). I will be tiltrating up slowly but it causes an initial fog/disorientation so I have to take it a bit slowly(also, have to get a refill since I wasn't prescribed enough to increase dosage yet -_-)
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robbie we have our blessings or healings a little at a time-you said you were back to work that a good thing-keep with sarnos program-go back and re-study -maybe you missed something-i havent read steveos post to you yet but he really helped me alot with my recovery-are you going back through sarnos or steves books yet?have you tried the structural program at tms/ppd-if you get all the knowledge you can and dont ever put a time limit on it -i know you will heal-everyone here does |
Edited by - eric watson on 11/28/2012 20:32:51 |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2012 : 08:04:28
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quote:
Originally posted by robbie86
About a month the first time, 3 months the second. I found that Sarnos methods help to cope with the pain, but never lessoned the actual physical pain I had outside of it being a little less noticable when optimistic/positive.
the little less noticeable part in your quote is the small part in reversing beginning to happen -its all those little notices adding up over time that makes for a healing-most people heal in 6 months , a yr ,or even more-stay the course.... |
Edited by - eric watson on 11/29/2012 08:06:38 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2012 : 09:48:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveO
Some of us have built the courage to live a normal life after harrowing ordeals, and some are trying to.
Steve
This is so true. Many people continue to have pain for a long time after giving up their fear of it and thus can live a relatively normal life. Other people, however, are still living with a lot of fear and anxiety and, despite all they have read on TMS, continue to feel trapped.
The question for many people is how do they lead a normal life when their bodies are literally screaming and that every movement they make is very uncomfortable and frankly frightening?
Those who recover say "Ignore the pain and carry on," but that is not always an easy thing to do, especially if their belief in the TMS diagnosis is still a bit shaky. I think that one of the keys resides in how you see yourself. Do you see yourself as sick and need physical treatment, or do your self was being a totally health person and the symptoms are benign?
I feel a bit ashamed to admit it on this forum, especially after dispensing so much advice to others, but after almost 8 years I continue to have large amounts of pain in various parts of my body despite the fact I have read every single book on the topic. I have had many manifestations of TMS, but I generally do not discuss symptoms here as I find it counter-productive, except for the newbies who need a bit of re-enforcement. TennisTom, our resident TMS enthusiast, I suspect also continues to experience hip pain, but he does not give up the fight and truly believes.
People who recover quickly are actually quite rare, (now I am waiting for someone to say they recovered in a few months, but you are still a rarity) and even if they do experience a rapid recovery, it is likely they will have future manifestations because learning about TMS is a life long process, for it is essentially about yourself. |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2012 : 10:47:57
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
quote:
Originally posted by SteveO
Some of us have built the courage to live a normal life after harrowing ordeals, and some are trying to.
Steve
This is so true. Many people continue to have pain for a long time after giving up their fear of it and thus can live a relatively normal life. Other people, however, are still living with a lot of fear and anxiety and, despite all they have read on TMS, continue to feel trapped.
The question for many people is how do they lead a normal life when their bodies are literally screaming and that every movement they make is very uncomfortable and frankly frightening?
Those who recover say "Ignore the pain and carry on," but that is not always an easy thing to do, especially if their belief in the TMS diagnosis is still a bit shaky. I think that one of the keys resides in how you see yourself. Do you see yourself as sick and need physical treatment, or do your self was being a totally health person and the symptoms are benign?
I feel a bit ashamed to admit it on this forum, especially after dispensing so much advice to others, but after almost 8 years I continue to have large amounts of pain in various parts of my body despite the fact I have read every single book on the topic. I have had many manifestations of TMS, but I generally do not discuss symptoms here as I find it counter-productive, except for the newbies who need a bit of re-enforcement. TennisTom, our resident TMS enthusiast, I suspect also continues to experience hip pain, but he does not give up the fight and truly believes.
People who recover quickly are actually quite rare, (now I am waiting for someone to say they recovered in a few months, but you are still a rarity) and even if they do experience a rapid recovery, it is likely they will have future manifestations because learning about TMS is a life long process, for it is essentially about yourself.
i agree shawn -this is so true-its more a way of life with benefits and struggles- |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2012 : 11:40:48
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
quote:
Originally posted by SteveO
Some of us have built the courage to live a normal life after harrowing ordeals, and some are trying to.
Steve
This is so true. Many people continue to have pain for a long time after giving up their fear of it and thus can live a relatively normal life. Other people, however, are still living with a lot of fear and anxiety and, despite all they have read on TMS, continue to feel trapped.
The question for many people is how do they lead a normal life when their bodies are literally screaming and that every movement they make is very uncomfortable and frankly frightening?
Those who recover say "Ignore the pain and carry on," but that is not always an easy thing to do, especially if their belief in the TMS diagnosis is still a bit shaky. I think that one of the keys resides in how you see yourself. Do you see yourself as sick and need physical treatment, or do your self was being a totally health person and the symptoms are benign?
I feel a bit ashamed to admit it on this forum, especially after dispensing so much advice to others, but after almost 8 years I continue to have large amounts of pain in various parts of my body despite the fact I have read every single book on the topic. I have had many manifestations of TMS, but I generally do not discuss symptoms here as I find it counter-productive, except for the newbies who need a bit of re-enforcement. TennisTom, our resident TMS enthusiast, I suspect also continues to experience hip pain, but he does not give up the fight and truly believes.
People who recover quickly are actually quite rare, (now I am waiting for someone to say they recovered in a few months, but you are still a rarity) and even if they do experience a rapid recovery, it is likely they will have future manifestations because learning about TMS is a life long process, for it is essentially learning about yourself.
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2012 : 17:12:13
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I've been contacted by a large number of people who healed quite quickly after reading the good doctor's books, either in the 1990s or more recently. But-----their pain returned and they're in a bigger panic this time. Fast healing, in my opinion, is not necessarily good. It could indicate a placebo reaction, or more likely the calm that follows discovering there's nothing physically wrong. But if their lives remain the same, and they don't take care of their problems, or learn to react a different way to them, they generate the same impulses of information and energy, and therefore the same physiological outcomes.
Healing takes a change, and knowledge therapy is a change, maybe not a significant enough change, for many. The good doctor told me it wasn't "just simple knowledge" but rather the fuller integration of the entire concept. This takes more work for most people and it's normal. Everyone can heal, it takes courage to let go.
I've been getting about 100 emails per month since I published my book. The main concern is they won't ever heal. This fear drives the symptoms, adding fear and therefore anger, playing into the "hands of the brain." You need to see yourself as healed--believe it. Take your healing into your own hands, don't wait for it to knock on your door. This includes anything you need to do to change your life to move into harmony. It doesn't mean paying attention to healing or even an active state of trying to heal. The idea is not to heal, but to set up the new life (new thinking) so that the pain is no longer necessary. It's not about the pain, it's about the life. Heal the life/heart and the pain has no more purpose.
I read a really nicely written post by Shawn Smith (I can't remember where it was) talking about how the brain lies all the time. Yes. It seeks survival, and is the cynical one that doubts the most. The brain is the obstacle in healing.
I don't see it as much as a divided mind, but as a division between the brain and the heart. Thomas Jefferson wrote a famous letter of a conversation between his head and his heart concerning Maria Causeway. The heart never lies, it always knows the truth and longs for it. But the brain often lies, and so the battle between the head and heart; lies and truth, divides the person in conflict.
If you listen to your heart you heal. Whatever the heart desires is what will make you happy, and real happiness heals. This is why I put Jung's work in my book on his work with Intellect vs. Feeling. You can't do both at the same time, they hinder each other. TMSers are intellectualizers, they live in their heads because in their heads their hearts can't be hurt any more. Inside the head is a mix of fear and corrupted memory that filters daily life. Garbage in garbage out. But the heart wakes up every day living in the current moment, not bound by corruption, but by truth. It knows what it wants and tells the brain, but the brain doesn't always listen because it has its own agenda.
To live for the heart is to be happy, and in the moment. It's a great freedom to cast off the shackles of the brain where self doubt and cynicism live. Most of the emails I receive are from people who are stuck in procrastination and at midlife. They fear following their hearts due to the things I mention in my book. But even the very young and the old are stuck in the battle of the head and heart. The head is there also to protect the heart from deeper pain, and so thinks it's doing the heart a favor. But this over-protection steals joy from the heart as it protects it from deeper angst. Knowledge therapy should include convincing the brain to once again allow the heart to feel joy instead of sorrow, love instead of fear.
Someone also recently posted a great UTube of the radical counselor. I think it was Composer? It was hilarious. That's how the heart feels, light and free, only burdened and made heavy laden by the slow to forgive brain. I called it letting the id out to play, but it's the same concept. The heart is silly and pure like a child, protected by a cynical brain. The two work together in tandem to form the person, and as always, balance is the key to a good life.
Light heart and calm mind
Steve |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2012 : 18:10:28
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| Exactly what Steve says is right on. I am very suspicious of a fast cure and they usually come up with something else later. There are of course exceptions but rare. It is all about changing habits which takes time |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2012 : 20:01:46
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| This may be the subject for another thread, but what do you do when the heart cannot heal because there is an unhealable wound from the outside -- in my case, a severely disabled child with no chance of getting better? One can cope of course,but after all the years it still feels like true healing would be artificial. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2012 : 11:05:00
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quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
This may be the subject for another thread, but what do you do when the heart cannot heal because there is an unhealable wound from the outside -- in my case, a severely disabled child with no chance of getting better? One can cope of course,but after all the years it still feels like true healing would be artificial.
Bother I feel for your pain and would like to reach out to ya. Lets put all that FDA stuff aside as we know its perfectly normal to have “Healthy skepticism”
However often times it can paralyze us from the “Truth” in which retrospect would become a stumbling block for our well being. This is what Dr Sarno called programming, if we trust in something or a methodology that is falsified artificial , Esp if we believe within our selves that our conditions and or diagnoses have no “ Hope” to recover . Then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy . Doctors especially ( all the ones w/ long letters after their names). They do that often with folks / families that have disabilities . And we trust them because they are supposed to be the experts that care for our well being . Its ashamed how education , money, and the popular belief system would influence the absolute truth and dictate the real data . Its a sin that paid experts would actually tell parents their is no hope , your child will not recover or get better with their condition. That is the furthertst from the truth with any condition. They tell folks that have parents with dementia ,alzheimer they are brain dead.... totally not true . There is so much to learn how to stimulate the brain rewire , open up other areas and yes even heal damaged areas. ( I will not get into this topic) esp on the TMS forum.
No drug in the world can will accomplish this either . (In fact many block this from happening)
Well oxygen under pressure is considered a drug and that helps aid healing severe brain Trauma but than I would be discussing hyperbaric medicine again another topic reserved for another forum...
Bottom line is we need to educate our-self, in every condition, sickness esp in how much resources are available that we are NOT told about . Lastly do the research and make informed choices .
Jmho those folks that don't just prescribe to the popular belief are the the ones that overcome. Or the parents that believe they can succeed disprove the “ so called” professionals in that field of medicine The world is full of hypocrites that make false accusations and as like the enemies of God ( Satin and all his minions) like to distract us from the “ TRUTH” and keep us held hostage with that “ False Hope”
Again I would love to share more of that Hope with you Brother. You can email me anytime and we can pick it up if ya like to.
My best
Kenny v
Always Hope For Recovery
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Edited by - kenny V on 12/08/2012 11:15:04 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2012 : 16:58:35
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| Kenny I appreciate the thoughts and sentiments. After 20 years trying pretty much everything there is to try, and then some, it's a pretty reasonable if unfortunate conclusion that there really isn't anything to be done. Maybe many years from now the means will exist, but not now. |
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Anxiety, dealing w the pain
