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PJ77
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2012 : 05:20:08
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I have been suffering from TMS for half of my life (am 35 now), although only known it is TMS for the last 6 years. The main symptoms I had were lower back spasms and pain, upper back and neck pain.
Since the first therapist I saw 6 years ago about TMS he pretty much sorted me out within 2 months as the relief alone of knowing it is TMS and not a back condition pretty much sorted me out(I had been told by many specialists that it was slipped discs causing the pain and my back was all over the place).
However I then suffered from anxiety within 6 months of my back pain clearing up and this went on for the last 5 years or so. I went back to the TMS specialist and he said it was the same thing moving around. However despite treatment from him I did not get better, however I could live with it through a positive attitude and it certainly was better than back pain as at least I could move around!
However after a lot of stress at work I suffered from a major back spasm 12 months ago, followed by further spasms every 1-4 weeks.
I then went to the main TMS therapist in the UK and despite going through the programme and following all practices on a daily basis, I have not recovered. In fact over time I would say my condition has got worse and worse, I am at the stage now when I can't stand for longer than 5 mins. It is very very disheartening, I feel I have dealt with all past issues and changed my attitude towards life, but I have just got worse and worse.
Would somebody please help as now doubts do begin to come in whether this really works? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 08:19:29
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quote:
Originally posted by PJ77
...However I then suffered from anxiety within 6 months of my back pain clearing up and this went on for the last 5 years or so. I went back to the TMS specialist and he said it was the same thing moving around.
...However after a lot of stress at work I suffered from a major back spasm 12 months ago, followed by further spasms every 1-4 weeks.
...Would somebody please help as now doubts do begin to come in whether this really works?
You appear to have made the connection between your TMS affective ANXIETY symptom and a stressful workplace, have you considered changing jobs?
Have you read SteveO's TMS book? He suffered a TMS journey of Biblical proportions over many decades and came through. His story is very inspirational, I highly recommend it!
Good Luck
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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PJ77
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 08:34:24
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Hi tennis tom, thank you for your reply.
I am self employed (always have been) so changing jobs is very very difficult - i don't think I could work for anybody the condition I am in - I can barely get to work due to my back, it takes me 4 hours to get ready.
I have ordered SteveO's book, hopefully it will be delivered this week, thanks. |
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 12:07:32
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Echoing TT here...SteveO's book is excellent.
Are there any particular aspects of your self-employment that you consider to be particularly stressful that, if you were to somehow change them, could ease the stress? Could there be other things going on in your life that could have caused the initial major back spasm and you've made a connection to work that is a not-quite-right connection?
What are your primary thoughts and what do you believe primarily? Your conscious mind has a lot of influence over your subconscious mind...if you are in the habit of thinking or saying things that could have a negative impact on your subconscious, you could be swimming upstream...have you tried any kind of relaxation/meditation tied with positive affirmations?
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Dustin |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 12:16:52
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quote:
Originally posted by drh7900
have you tried any kind of relaxation/meditation tied with positive affirmations?
Do you happen to have any good recommendations on this front?
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 15:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by stevep
quote:
Originally posted by drh7900
have you tried any kind of relaxation/meditation tied with positive affirmations?
Do you happen to have any good recommendations on this front?
I'm still actively learning (slowly). So I don't really have any good recommendations yet, but I am growing more and more familiar with the concept of "mind power", though I haven't yet gotten the Kehoe book that Ace1 recommends ("Mind Power Into the 21st Century"). The best thing I can recommend at this point is visualizing something or some place that makes you feel calm and relaxed...maybe listen to some soothing sounds or music, and speak affirmations to your conscious mind in order to persuade your subconscious mind into "attracting" positive things. Things like "I am calm," "I am relaxed," "I am quick to forgive"...things like that. In the research I've done thus far, I have learned that the subconscious mind believes what the conscious mind tells it. It doesn't know truth or fiction...just what you believe. If you believe it, eventually your subconscious will believe it.
Anyone more familiar with the concept, feel free to chime in and correct...my research has been sporadic at best...
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Dustin |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 17:04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by drh7900
quote:
Originally posted by stevep
quote:
Originally posted by drh7900
have you tried any kind of relaxation/meditation tied with positive affirmations?
Do you happen to have any good recommendations on this front?
I'm still actively learning (slowly). So I don't really have any good recommendations yet, but I am growing more and more familiar with the concept of "mind power", though I haven't yet gotten the Kehoe book that Ace1 recommends ("Mind Power Into the 21st Century"). The best thing I can recommend at this point is visualizing something or some place that makes you feel calm and relaxed...maybe listen to some soothing sounds or music, and speak affirmations to your conscious mind in order to persuade your subconscious mind into "attracting" positive things. Things like "I am calm," "I am relaxed," "I am quick to forgive"...things like that. In the research I've done thus far, I have learned that the subconscious mind believes what the conscious mind tells it. It doesn't know truth or fiction...just what you believe. If you believe it, eventually your subconscious will believe it.
Anyone more familiar with the concept, feel free to chime in and correct...my research has been sporadic at best...
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Dustin
Thanks for the response.
I actually just downloaded and tried out this meditation app. Was pretty good and goes along with some of the things you are speaking of. This eBook guide that comes along with it actually says this in one part:
Imagine every part of you is repeating the affirmations with complete conviction and total belief in what you are stating. Even if it feels a bit odd at first, stay with it, as your unconscious mind believes exactly what it is told.
Anyway, if you have itunes, give it a shot. It's free. It's called Meditation 4 Inner Wisdom
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/meditation-4-inner-wisdom/id391915637?mt=8 |
Edited by - stevep on 07/11/2012 17:35:30 |
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 12:17:08
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Thanks stevep...I'll have to check that out!
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Dustin |
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PJ77
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 07:29:33
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| Hi, still having so much trouble. I have read The Great Pain Deception by SteveO, it did help but still struggling as at times I cannot stand up at all due to so much lower back tightness. Anybody please with any ideas? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 09:30:29
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Hi PJ,
Sorry to hear you're not improving. When going to a TMS doctor and getting a TMS dx doesn't help the next step is therapy. Dr. Don Dubin who is now deceased was a TMS psychologist, and he said it did not take more than a dozen sessions to help TMS'ers with stubborn symptoms. I noticed you mentioned having explored your past for the root causes of your TMS pain. But it can also be caused by tensions in the present such as the job stress you mentioned.
Did you see a TMS physician in the UK for your DX? I'm not aware of one there. I know there are TMS practitioners there such as Georgie Oldfield. I would say you need to return to your TMS practitioner or another one until you are better. The other alternative is to keep reading and studying the TMS materials until you're subconscious is convinced or lessening the situations that are stressing you in your daily life. There's also a TMS group that used to announce their meet-ups in London here.
Good Luck
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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PJ77
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 09:41:52
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Hi tennis tom,
Many thanks for your reply. I do think it is the present causing me the stress - I am a worrier and perfectionist and trying to change is proving to be very very difficult. I do feel these are keeping my symptoms alive. I also feel because I cannot move freely this eventually leads to frustration which is only natural and then probably more symptoms.
I am having counselling but she is not familiar with TMS - I cannot find any counsellors who are familiar with it.
I am due to see an EFT therapist this week but not sure whether that will help or not.
I did see Georgie Oldfield for 6-8 sessions but stopped as my symptoms were pretty much on average the same under her. I am debating whether to go back even though to her but its not been long since i was there. I will keep on reading the material but it seems any sort of stress/non positive thought triggers it as well as bending, lifting and sitting on a chair. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 10:13:50
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I would return to Georgie Oldfield since she understands TMS. Maybe you need six or eight more sessions from her. If EFT is that tapping "bizniz" it's voo-doo. Search here, I think it's been mentioned before. Maybe a TMS'er from the UK will know of some other practitioners there. Keep reading and absorbing the TMS KNOWLEDGE! If you still believe bending, lifting and sitting is harmful, your subconscious is not yet convinced it's TMS.
Break on through to the other side! |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 10:15:14
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quote:
Originally posted by PJ77
I will keep on reading the material but it seems any sort of stress/non positive thought triggers it as well as bending, lifting and sitting on a chair.
It sounds like you still haven't accepted that your pain is benign and does not have a physical cause like sitting on a particular chair, lifting or bending. As long as you perceive these things as triggers, you will delay your recovery.
There was a poster not long ago, Lara, who had serious doubts about the diagnosis. At one stage she was told by a particular therapist or doctor that she had a physical problem. She told us she wished she had TMS but insisted now it was definitely physical. It had been confirmed. Lara went away and soon enough she came back to tell us that she had finally found a TMS specialist and was on the road to recovery. I can only assume she was ready to get better. Even with a TMS therapist we can still resist the diagnosis. It can't be forced upon us. We have to make that decision for ourselves when we are good and ready, like Lara.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 10:24:34
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Here's what another poster here said about EFT:
"I tried it for my foot back/pain with a well-known NYC practitioner. Did zip. Don't waste your time or money."
If you search "tapping" here you'll find more on it.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2012 : 11:38:11
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quote:
Originally posted by PJ77
Hi, still having so much trouble. I have read The Great Pain Deception by SteveO, it did help but still struggling as at times I cannot stand up at all due to so much lower back tightness. Anybody please with any ideas?
Stop trying so hard. It seems you are filling your schedule with treatments that you hope will work, and you get frustrated very quickly when they don't.
There is no magic bullet. You must begin a life-long change in the way you think about and react to the symptoms. You must begin a reconditioning process that will take weeks, months, or years to be fully effective. You must do your best to ignore the symptoms.
You are not there yet, perhaps you are not truly accepting of the diagnosis yet. Even if you try to convince yourself that you believe, you cannot "outsmart" the unconscious mind.
Follow Dr. Sarno's treatment suggestions diligently. It is fine to seek out other books and resources, but do not expect that any of them will have the "magic cure" you seek. Only you can modify your thoughts and behaviors, nobody is going to do it for you. |
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 13:05:46
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I haven't tried EFT for the pain...but EFT in general (in my opinion) is not "voo-doo". I think it has the potential to help a TMSer if used correctly.
Of course, this is getting into eastern philosophies of energy flow in the body, meridians, pressure points, etc...but the process if EFT is basically repeating affirmations. In addition to doing the affirmations (such as, "Even though my over-cope and my emotional turmoil manifests as physical pain, I completely and total accept/love/like/etc myself") you tap on pressure points (not too dissimilar to NLP either). I have read somewhere (SteveO's book? Elsewhere?) that stimulating pressure points while repeating affirmations has been shown to help them "sink in" better.
The process looks and sounds hokey...and who knows...maybe it is...but in light of Ace1's mind power recommendations and SteveO's references in his book to quantum mechanics and energy/vibrations/affirmations, I wouldn't rule out EFT as a method of working on those affirmations. It's not a magic bullet, but it IS a technique (Emotional Freedom Technique) to work on affirmations.
Even SteveO mentions EFT in his book, but if I recall it was in a some-people-get-relief-but-not-permanent kind of light. That said, perhaps it's the way it's being used that is the problem. Just my thoughts.
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Dustin |
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PJ77
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 14:16:56
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Hi everyone,
Many many thanks for all your comments and advice. I am certainly considering going back to Georgie for further sessions, but I do agree that trying too hard does not help. Also you are all right when you say a person really really needs to, 100% believe, that there is physically nothing wrong with the problem area, my back in my case.
I was doing well with SteveO's book until I came to page 286 and then it seemed to go pear shape, it states:
"I have seen the pain move quickly when confronted with increased activity and by ignoring it. The area in pain may also need strengthening, not because there is injury there, but it may be weakened due to a lack of bloodflow for prolonged periods. If the spasm is severe enough, the nerve or tissue can be oxygen-deprived, leading to weakened muscles."
This above statement really really messed with me in the head. I seemed to be doing really really well with the book until I read that. It made me think physically my back is weak perhaps because of the lack of bloodflow there, even though the pain moves around with me. It was as if all the information I read was put in doubt that perhaps physically there is a problem there due to weakened muscles. This lead to me having 2-3 really rough days, until I convinced myself that NO my muscles are not weak. Perhaps Steve is stating for those who have been totally bedridden by their pain and due to lack of bloodflow the muscle may have gone weak. But my mind was saying "Steve why did you have to put that in the book - i feel i am back to square one!!??"
I have over the past 24 hours really convinced my self that my back is not weak and what Steve said there does not apply to me - i will physically do more to feel better but there is nothing weak about my back!! I have felt a bit better since then.
I will give EFT a go but she is a behavioural therapist also and I may benefit more from that part.
Best wishes, PJ77
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 19:59:54
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quote:
Originally posted by PJ77
"The area in pain may also need strengthening, not because there is injury there, but it may be weakened due to a lack of bloodflow for prolonged periods. If the spasm is severe enough, the nerve or tissue can be oxygen-deprived, leading to weakened muscles."
I believe what SteveO is referring to here is muscle atrophy. When you use a muscle it grows stronger, when you don't it weakens. The muscle cells and fibers are still there. It's the basic "use it or lose it"--but it's not really lost, it's just shrinking or atrophying from lack of use. The amount of blood restriction that causes TMS excrusciating pain is miniscule but harmless. . A couple of weeks of using it and the muscle strength and tone will effectively return.
The best thing you can do is stick with the TMS program understanding the TMS KNOWLEDGE fully to prevent going into the fear of the unknown mode. As Dave said too much jumping around from treatment to treatment will only frustrate and confuse you, stick with the program until you fully understand the theory and your subconscious absorbs it on a cellular level. |
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PJ77
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2012 : 10:49:06
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Hi tennis tom,
Thank you for clarifying what was in the book. I am daily reading material to get it sunk in at an unconscious level. There are many many ups and downs but I suppose that is part of the process.
Does anyone know however why and bit of stress/tension and I will it straight away in the lower back? The more you try to move your attention elsewhere the more it tries to gain it! |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2012 : 11:08:40
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quote:
Originally posted by PJ77
I have over the past 24 hours really convinced my self that my back is not weak and what Steve said there does not apply to me...
I can't speak for Steve but it seems you may have misinterpreted that passage. To me, the key phrase is "...not because there is injury there..." This underscores the fact that your unconscious mind is still waivering in its belief, looking for reasons to fall back into thinking that something is structurally wrong.
Accept that the pain is benign; the reduction in blood flow did not cause permanent injury. Often we unconsciously alter our physical activities to avoid the area in pain; this results in the muscle being underutilized and therefore it weakens. A severe example is "frozen shoulder" which may start with benign TMS pain in the shoulder, but over time as we avoid physical activity there, the muscle atrophies to the point where physical therapy may be required to strengthen the muscle and restore balance.
If you practice TMS treatment suggestions, then resuming physical activity should prevent the muscles from reaching this point.
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PJ77
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2012 : 07:44:42
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Having felt I have resolved past issues, resuming walking on a daily basis and trying EFT, I am coming to the conclusion that my daily thoughts (which may well be negative without realising they are negative) are causing my symptoms to continue.
What I would really like to know is that can daily negative thoughts (a lifetime habit without realising it) and nothing else (as well as conditioning) be enough on their own for my symptoms to persist? If so is the answer to change all thoughts into a positive result (ie glass half full than empty)? I just cannot move forward as my symptoms are so much up and down - usually down more often.
Many thanks, Pj77 |
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Topic |
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TMS Treatment Not Worked
