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pspa123
672 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2012 : 06:35:23
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I have done a reasonable amount of reading now, and am doing my best to embrace the notion that my neck and leg pain are psychological in origin. However, I have a few questions that remain unresolved, so any advice would be appreciated.
First, regarding the theory. Unresolved emotional conflict, the desire to be good and perfect, rage, etc. surely are part of the human condition and have existed forever. If they are indeed the cause of chronic pain, then why would there be a RECENT epidemic, as there surely is? Shouldn't there have been an epidemic all along? Perhaps this question is answered somewhere but I have not run across it.
Second, also regarding the theory. Is the notion that the immediate mechanism of pain is reduced blood flow something that has been proven, or is it just supposition? And if it's true, wouldn't chronic lack of blood flow to muscles create its own "physical" issues (lactic acid etc.) that might require a more "physical" intervention? Or is it something with no consequences other than the symptoms it produces?
Finally for now, a thought problem. While I have been told by a TMS practitioner that my case is classic, and it makes sense to me, I (like many of you I am sure) also have been told with equal conviction by highly trained people that my problems are physical and that my muscles are in a chronic state of spasm due to forward head posture, etc. (I have been told many other things, but I am able to reject them as having no conceivable basis in reality.) As a result, I keep getting seduced by the logic of various physical interventions aimed at direct treatment of muscle spasm/tension. My latest obsession is NeuroSoma. Even though they don't help, instead of embracing the notion that my problem must lie elsewhere, which I know one must do to improve, I keep falling back on the unhelpful notion that either I did not stick with these interventions long enough, or that I haven't found the right one or the right practitioner yet. I just can't seem to break out of this cycle. |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 10:19:12
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There is indeed a new epidemic of pain, a kind of pain-mania, and there are several reasons for it. The records don't show a pandemic from decades ago. A study done across North Carolina over a period showed the pain had increased 16% over that time period. I think it was 14? Have to look it up.
Unresolved emotional conflict is the main factor behind chronic pain, this has been proven conclusively.
The reduced blood flow as the mechanism is a hypothesis and most likely true based on prior studies and common sense. Yes, chronic lack of blood flow creates its own issues like toxins moving in, weakened muscles, etc. Lactic acid has nothing to do with the process.
Posture has nothing to do with pain.
You have to break from the quackery notion that you need to find "that perfect medical procedure" to heal, or you get caught on the pain-Ferris wheel and suffer needlessly. But it's your life, you own it.
Steve
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 11:24:21
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SteveO, let me first say that I just finished the first three chapters of your book and I'm blown away. By everything. Obviously by your story, but that is not even where I am going with this post. Your chapter on the explanation of the actual psychological process is phenomenal. I skipped it at first and went to the third. And then I came back, and am so happy I did. You broke it down better than anything else I've read in this past 7 months or so. I finally get it (for the most part; I will read again). Thank you.
However this morning my pain was bad. Even worse than normal. Just horrible discomfort in my calf and hamstring. I couldn't lay still. Does this make sense? Is my mind creating this pain at such extreme levels due to my more thorough awareness of my conflicts? I just forced myself to go on a run. I'm typing this on my phone at the park as we speak. It actually feels a little better. I just fear (the worst thing I can do, I know) that it will come back to the same levels once I'm sitting around.
Also, I am finally seeing a TMS doc (rashbaum) here in nyc in a couple days. Any advice? Just let him do his thing? |
Edited by - stevep on 07/03/2012 11:33:31 |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 12:34:39
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Hi Steve, I really like your first name, solidarity brother.
Those first 2 chapters are tough ones aren't they?--packed dense with TMS information. In many ways chapter 1 was the most difficult to write because of the difficulty in trying to summarize all the good doctor's work into 1 chapter. Extremely tough to do and yet still make sense. I'm happy it helped you more deeply understand the process.
Chapter 2 is to give a brief overview of the psychology behind TMS. Both (Jung and Freud) were literary devices needed up front so the readers would understand the foundational aspects before they got into my story. In other words, my story makes more sense if they understand the basics. Many people, including doctors, never heard of TMS until they read my book so it had to be concise and basic. The TMS docs who helped me were concerned that I might lose people in the gritty details of chapters 1 and 2 before they got to the juicy stuff. But I was confident that the TMSers were highly curious and intelligent people who would stick through the details.
My gamble paid off. The readers love the details since this personality is detail-oriented with a thirst for information. It's a classic survival response.
You're not alone in that your symptoms increased while reading it. I've received emails telling me that their pain bounded around in their bodies while reading my story, and then suddenly left. I called this the "TMS exorcism" in the book. Confronted with the truth the brain panics in fear that its cover will be blown. When you get to chapter 5 you'll see how my body reacted when I first began reading Mind Over Back Pain. It's amazing to see the power of the mindbody connection in action.
I don't know much about Dr. Rashbaum but if Dr. Sarno recommends him then the guy must know what he's doing. Please let us all know what he does and says, etc. Most people will never see a TMS doc and are curious as to the process. Plus we know little about Dr. Rashbaum.
Let him do his thing and see what he says. As the heir apparent to the TMS throne I hope he does it justice.
Let us know what happens Steve,
Steve |
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stevep
106 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 12:58:00
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| Will do, and thanks for the reply... |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 13:56:56
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| SteveO, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I definitely need to let go of the illusion that I will find the right physical modality. But in reference to your comment re chronic reduction in blood flow causing muscle issues, is this simply self-correcting when one addresses the root cause, or is any other invention needed or appropriate? |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 16:37:50
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That's a good question. Dr. Sarno practiced for 50 years and saw 500 new patients on average per year. So his experience is unparalleled in the TMS process which he became aware of in the 1970s. He has stated that he couldn't recall one person getting worse from taking his advice and ignoring the pain and becoming more active. So it would seem that it is self correcting if the issues are addressed--no residual problems with TMS healing. I had a paralyzed leg, loss of deep tendon reflexes and motor function, I and healed completely with no residual damage.
The tougher and larger question you raised was about "addressing the root cause." We rarely know what the cause is and so rarely know what to address, exactly. So we do a general approach to TMS which has been called many things like "thinking psychologically" or "TMS healing"...etc. It's more like a shotgun approach to healing since few people have access to or can afford a psychoanalyst to go digging for roots.
We do know some common denominators though that allow us to take this general approach. We know the body is locked in survival mode with TMS, in fight/flight/freeze. So my first approach was to unlock the sympathetic nervous system where the fight/flight originates. This is accomplished through relaxation techniques and meditation and breathing, having more fun, etc...and rigorous activity.
Secondly, the good doctor had coined the phrase "think psychologically." I took that to mean "stop and examine my life...look for any event that may have led up to the increased intensity of my pain." I did that and my list was very long, but being a Type T I didn't want to miss anything by not doing the exercise perfectly. What this process does is to try to uncover the culprit that we aren't aware of--the unknown root cause. Some get lucky and hit on it..I didn't. But it did make me reflect which was cathartic.
So you need to stay active and you need to peruse your mind's eye for any possible cause.
Yelling at my brain didn't work for me, journaling didn't work for me. But I've seen these things work in other people so you can't discount any of them as possible healing tools. In my book I threw the kitchen sink at people when it comes to healing possibilities because I had seen them work in others. What works for one person does not always work for another. I've never seen 2 people heal in the same way. I came to realize that we heal according to how we learn, audio, kinesthetic, visual, etc..no matter which method it is the right brain that does the healing and is valuable in the healing process. It must be engaged.
There are many paths to pain-free. Each person must find their own way because part of the process is in what Jung called "individuation" This is the discovery of Self by wading through imperfection and the transcendence of ego. Letting the little child go and embracing the flaws in the self. Healing is often a journey of self discovery with no map.
We got ourselves into this mess and we can lead ourselves out. But there are generic programs that can help as a beginners guide to happiness and vitality. Good health is not the absence of pain and disease. Good health must also contain a vitality, a thirst for life, love and purpose.
Steve |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 21:07:53
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| In my case I probably don't have to look far for a reason, although I keep denying any connection to myself. 23 years ago now, my perfectly healthy son became severely autistic after a vaccine, lost his speech, regressed behaviorally, and never recovered. Without looking to elicit any pity, life has been extraordinarily difficult ever since, and to function in the real world, both in a demanding job and to care for my other kids, I have found it necessary to suppress a great deal of anger, rage, grief, what have you. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 00:52:32
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Pspa,
I'm sorry about your son. My thoughts and prayers to you both.
After reading that, it seems obvious that anyone would suffer going through so much.
Have you worked through this in therapy, even traditional talk therapy? |
Edited by - bryan3000 on 07/04/2012 00:53:47 |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 01:39:57
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quote:
Yelling at my brain didn't work for me, journaling didn't work for me. But I've seen these things work in other people so you can't discount any of them as possible healing tools. In my book I threw the kitchen sink at people when it comes to healing possibilities because I had seen them work in others. What works for one person does not always work for another. I've never seen 2 people heal in the same way. I came to realize that we heal according to how we learn, audio, kinesthetic, visual, etc..no matter which method it is the right brain that does the healing and is valuable in the healing process. It must be engaged.
I am quoting this because it really is worth repeating. So many people try different approaches and when they don't see the desired results they either think they aren't trying hard enough and/or they go back to seeking a physical explanation and solution. I am supposedly someone who learns by reading and writing. I like the reading bit as long as I can concentrate. This has been a problem for me in the last year. Perhaps another manifestation of TMS. My brain just doesn't want me to take that information on board and is fighting to distract me.
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 01:47:22
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| Pspa123, I work with families where the children exhibit varying degrees of challenging behaviour. The parents are so busy fire fighting and trying to keep themselves together they become quite insular. They feel they can only talk to the people nearest and dearest to them to a limited extent, if at all. How would it feel to have someone there for just you? |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 10:04:15
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| Thanks, Bugbear. We definitely have become insular partly of necessity and partly, to be candid, out of choice. It is too painful to be around "normal" people too much. |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 13:00:32
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Pspa you have been through much, but you should also take a look back further than your son's vaccination. It may simply have been a trigger like it was in my case.
I have never liked the idea of vaccinating healthy people with diseases. It doesn't make sense but everything is a gamble in life.
The same is true for Lasik eye surgery. You should never blow away healthy corneal tissue. I found out the hard way when it blinded me. The same is true for vaccines, you play the odds in life and sometimes they go against you. On the first page of my chapter 11 I listed the top things I hear from people when the have severe or chronic bouts of TMS. # 10 on the list is, 'my child died or is ill."
You can heal, it takes knowledge, patience, and belief.
Steve
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 14:37:03
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| Steve did you correct your vision with TMS treatment? Thanks in advance |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 11:25:38
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I was born with keratoconous, like many people who don't know they have it, and so was never a candidate for laser eye surgery. Keratoconous mimics astigmatism and so often goes unnoticed when determining candidacy for surgery. When the laser hits the eye the disease that is sitting dormant takes off and a progressive thinning of the cornea begins with gradual vision loss that can't be stopped without a corneal transplant.
However, scientists in Dresden Germany came up with a procedure (I think in the 1990s) called Corneal Collagen Crosslinking, CXL, in an effort to stop the progression of keratoconous without a transplant.
The FDA approved a few clinical trials here in the US a couple years ago and Francis Price, MD, in Indianapolis got one of the trials since he's one of the best cornea surgeons in the country. I got into that trial in 2010 and had the CXL. It involves taking the top layer of the cornea off with a scalpel and then saturating the eye with riboflavin, and then bombarding the eye with ultra violet rays for 30 mins. It was very painful but it worked and stopped the disease in its tracks. Then a year later he put plastic Intacs in my eye to reshape the cornea for better lens fitting.
The vision is very poor but the disease was stopped. I think someday I will have to have the transplant but for now the disease has ceased to progress. I would caution anyone who is thinking about laser eye surgery to rethink it, and to anyone who had it, and it worked, that you got very lucky. It is not an exact process and the claims of success are wildly over exaggerated for monetary purposes.
So my vision is 20/80 where it was 20/1000. The surgery set my book back 2 years and cost me a fortune. But it was another lesson learned on the hard road. It couldn't have been healed with TMS healing since it was a degenerative process with loss of tissue.
One reason I tell this story, besides Ace asking, is to show how Phase 4 TMS works so directly. I called Phase 4 "After the Storm TMS." It is the most common timing of TMS and I confirmed this with several TMS physicians. TMS more often appears after the stressful event is over.
The day after my eye surgery I couldn't straighten up. My back had locked up so tight that I was bent over like a waiter bowing down. I had no pain but my brain was letting me know that I owed it for the demands I made of it to get me through the surgery.
My friends who drove me to Indy were laughing of course. We all knew it was TMS. I couldn't help but laugh too at the power of the brain and that I had been writing about this very topic. My friends kept giving me dinner orders and saying sayonara. I laughed, and relaxed and let it go and the next day it was gone. More proof of the nature and truth of TMS.
SteveO
Steve |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 13:38:45
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Dear steve o,
Keratoconus is a severe form of TMS of the eyes, you were not born with it. Please may I refer you to the writings of dr William Bates on www.central-fixation.com. Go to library section the look at the better eyesight magazine. In the search engine look up conical cornea. He cured many eye problems including conical cornea (keratoconcus) with relaxation treatment. Dont let anyone else touch your eyes and work on the recommended strategies by dr bates. Somes it gets lost in the text but all of the strategies by him are to achieve unconscience relaxation and relaxation of the eye (stop the eye from strain). Good luck and feel free to ask me any questions you may have about it |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 20:15:25
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I understand your point. Most things can be healed with mindbody healing. But you cannot add tissue back to a cornea that has thinned with mindbody healing. My eye hit 360 microns of thickness. The only option was to stop the thinning through crosslinking the bonds. "Eye" was basically beyond repair.
I spoke to the surgeon a little about the roots of konous. He showed me how it sits congenitally on the DNA line, and he was right, my father has it and one of my kids has it.
I would be inclined to believe that mindbody healing could prevent konous from occurring and also to slow or stop its progression. I believe in the power of the mind. But my konous didn't begin from tension it began when the laser hit my eye. I also couldn't stop the progression of the disease because the laser had taken that chance from me when it blasted out the majority of the cornea. I didn't have the mental capacity to add tissue back although I do believe there are people who do.
As a TMS author I evaluated every angle for TMS healing but the Lasik surgery had done too much damage too quickly and I was left with blindness or surgery.
I do believe tension can cause konous to erupt in people. Only about 50% of the people who have it will get it and after age 50 it rarely comes out.
Thanks for the links I will look at them but I probably read them already before I made the tough decision for eye surgery. I know of Bate's work. And I do believe as you said here that konous is a severe form of TMS--I have no doubt you are right. This only happened in one eye. I wouldn't let the laser surgeon touch my right eye. I've done relaxation in that eye and it's fine. This is further proof that konous is TMS.
Thank you Ace
Steve |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 04:21:36
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| You have helped so many people, now if I can I will try to help you. Please go back and read the first few paragraphs of you last post above. Doesn't it sound like a back patients argument why tms treatment will not work? Trust me it will work on that eye. It is never beyond repair unless it is taken out of your head. Remember for any tms treatment to work you must first BELIEVE it is possible, then continue with the work which can take up to years. Remember if something is damaged it can heal. Let me know if I can help. |
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new to TMS and feeling stuck
