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avik
128 Posts |
 Posted - 05/22/2012 : 13:58:19
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One of my many, many TMS equivalents has been this on/off neck pain and associated neck spasms (I move quickly and my neck "locks" into a certain position and I cannot move for days). The pain is INCREDIBLY sharp and debilitating.
I have had this for 7 years now. I KNOW its TMS. Or at least I think I do. Ive had an upper Cervical MRI; slight disc herniation in c5/c6 (as expected).
HERES THE THING: I get the spasms during times of doing something physically demanding, which makes me "think" its physical.
This weekend, I was in a GREAT mood, beautiful weather in the park in NYC, playing football, semi-tackled a friend and BOOM, neck spasm. The pain is really bad and just "feels serious".
How do I "talk/journal" my way out of this spasm? How can I prevent future ones if it happens when im in a great mood?? This pain, unlike other TMS related probs, comes from some sort of physical distress or fast movement.
I feel like every other issue ive had, i could work my way out of but a spasm has a "time-frame" to it...you are locked up for a certain number of days.
MOST IMPORTANTLY: how do I treat the pain of the spasm? Do I stretch and do my McKenzie exercises, use ice/heat or anything to alleviate the pain OR< does all of that just feed the whole TMS process?
Ive gotten rid of ALL my other ailments but this one just keeps coming back to get me...
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Edited by - avik on 05/22/2012 14:01:37 |
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lynnl
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2012 : 16:44:04
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That's the ailment that started my TMS experience(s). My neck pain started while I was stationed overseas, in a very stressful assignment, in about 1983. Continued to plague me for about 10 or 12 years. The pain was often so severe and intense that it seemed simply moving my eyeballs would invoke it. Backing a car was especially difficult.
Then in about 1995 after I'd retired from the AF, as I was having an especially bad period, I sought chiropractic help. About 3 or 4 days into the chiropractic therapy and exercises, literally overnight the neck pain gave way to excruciating sciatica. Neck never bothered me anymore. But I quickly got to the point where I would've given anything to have my neck pain back in lieu of the sciatica.
Sounds like your's is a case of the self-fulfilling prophesy now. Somehow you're going to have to mentally disconnect it from the physical in the way you're perceiving it. I know that's difficult since it's occuring coincident with physical activity. But my bet is that's because of your anticipation and fear.
Oh..., as far as exercises, back those many years ago, before my TMS enlightenment, an AF doctor gave me a length of surgical tubing to stretch against in various exercises, e.g. overhead, arms behind the back, arms behind the neck, hands in front and below waist level, etc.
Those helped immensely in the short term, but of course gave no lasting relief.
Lynn |
Edited by - lynnl on 05/22/2012 16:46:02 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 10:28:21
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Don't try to make your pain go away as if it were an enemy to be feared. Just don't let it bother you anymore than you have to. Once you can get through an episode or two without the accompanying fear and worry, I'm betting it will begin to go away.
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2012 : 14:20:36
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Hi Avik,
Have you conditioned yourself to react this way? Football is one of the most active sports, and possibly the most enjoyable thing you do. Because of this TMS has chosen your favorite passion to mess with right now, I see you have had TMS in other areas. When I watched Dr.Schubiner’s movie on his website he recanted that “it’s good that it moves because you have got it on the run”. You also say it comes and goes, I believe this is a good thing.
If you have been checked out by a TMS Dr? How about gently playing football trough your pain? I know this is very hard, and I would be open about this with other players about what you are doing. Then go home have a hot bath and take a pain killer and go to bed. I did similar to this in the year 2000. You can read my sucess2000 storey. You would be telling your pain that you know about it and you just don’t care.
The other time I was successful in getting rid of pain was in my storey here when I crunched raisin bran at 2.30 in the middle of the night.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7197
Sometime you need to reduce the spasms with treatment or pain killers, but tell yourself that it is only a quick fix only to get you to a point where you can focus.
Like you I have had some TMS success, my present pain is with a Charlie Horse on my neck. It’s been there for 20 years. So long that I have a crooked neck and a hard muscle lump that has pulled my vertebrae out of true. I don’t care enough about it to stop me windsurfing, as I believe my real issues are emotional connected to my past family. I would say you also have something else going on emotional not physical.
Good luck in finding what it is.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
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avik
128 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 00:33:17
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quote:
Originally posted by art
Don't try to make your pain go away as if it were an enemy to be feared. Just don't let it bother you anymore than you have to. Once you can get through an episode or two without the accompanying fear and worry, I'm betting it will begin to go away.
I think this might be part, if not all of my problem.
I FEAR making the neck issue worse, by doing too much movement and/or stretching? I FEAR that the spasm will increase in intensity and "lock" me up for even more days, which will prevent me from working, going to the gym, going out etc.
I guess there is a part of me that still believes that there is some sort of nerve damage and that more movement with "irritate" it.
I know many of things that some of you have already posted but I cant seem to apply it to this neck thing.
Do I treat the pain now? Or does that just confirm the pain and perpetuate the whole thing? |
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 05:35:29
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quote:
Originally posted by avik
quote:
Originally posted by art
Don't try to make your pain go away as if it were an enemy to be feared. Just don't let it bother you anymore than you have to. Once you can get through an episode or two without the accompanying fear and worry, I'm betting it will begin to go away.
I think this might be part, if not all of my problem.
I FEAR making the neck issue worse, by doing too much movement and/or stretching? I FEAR that the spasm will increase in intensity and "lock" me up for even more days, which will prevent me from working, going to the gym, going out etc.
I guess there is a part of me that still believes that there is some sort of nerve damage and that more movement with "irritate" it.
I know many of things that some of you have already posted but I cant seem to apply it to this neck thing.
Do I treat the pain now? Or does that just confirm the pain and perpetuate the whole thing?
Good question, Avik. I think I struggle with this, too. In some cases I've seen where Sarno suggests using pain killers to get through the worst bouts of the pain while working on treating the source...or as someone else said of Sarno "a good book, a bottle of wine, and go to bed." but then there are explicit instructions to stop all physical treatments (as a doctor recently suggested to me, including narcotics).
I'm not sure what the right answer is...it may be different for everyone. It may be a matter of how difficult it is for you to focus on the emotions despite the pain. as I understand it, THAT is the key to recovery...recognizing the symptoms for what they are and not allowing them to divert your attention from the "unwanted" emotions of the subconscious. As an "in progress" recoverer, I find that sometimes that helps the pain to subside and sometimes the pain gets too great and I have to change position or something temporarily while I mentally move back to focusing on the real issues at hand. I want to say that's working for me, but I may be wrong...I may be giving way to the pain and letting it prevail as it is intended to do. I still have SOME fear that certain things I do will make it worse, but I continue to push through and defeat that fear. My back pain is very faint when I bend over to pick something up now, but in some sitting positions, it still hurts pretty bad...sounds like TMS to me!
Anyway...here's to hoping you figure out what's right for you and soon declare victory over TMS.
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Dustin |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 12:25:56
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Hi Avik,
MOST IMPORTANTLY: how do I treat the pain of the spasm?
This should read “LEAST IMPORTANTLY”. Try treating your pain with contempt and with the knowledge that it is only a minor inconvenience. I know it is in the forefront and the only thing you are aware of right now, but I understand this is the distraction that TMS uses to get your attention and to remain.
I became more aware of this from Dave a few weeks ago when he kindly said:
“Recovery is not about becoming pain free, which IMO is an unrealistic goal. It is about understanding why you get these symptoms, and not allowing them to control you.”
You can see our chit chat in this thread:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7270&whichpage=2
I came up with a saying “Forget about your pain, so that it will forget about you.” to remind me of this. This excellent thread went into great depths on how we should view our pain, and in summary you should expect to become pain free, BUT it should not become your main concern. You should try to forget about it, and give it as little credence as possible.
How do you do this? Playing football while in pain does a few things:
1. It distracts you, being one of your favorite pastimes.
2. You are telling your pain it is unimportant.
3. You are facing your fear of the pain getting worse.
4. You would be convincing yourself that it is NOT a physical issue.
5. You are not allowing the pain to control you.
6. On a physical level you might be loosening up the spasm and increasing blood supply, but being physical this is of minor importance.
In my opinion any form of activity would suffice, but should rank in your top favorites. For instance a jog around the block might work for you as well.
When I need, I do my own form of Yoga stretching. I believe McKenzie exercises target pinched nerves, which is not TMS theory. In your mind turn your exercise stretches into your own form. I think this is the best time to talk to your brain, when you are in pain, as you pull into each stretch and the mild pain it produces. By the way you can say whatever you want, cussing is allowed.
Hey, I’ve just made up a TMS motto. “When in pain talk to your brain.”
Regarding pain killers, for my low level of pain I use Tylenol PM. By taking pain medication I’m saying. “OK TMS you win for now, I’ll see you tomorrow”. I did this last night as I’ve had two days of stress that ended up in my neck stiffening up and a full blown headache. As you can see I’m back.
Avik, I hope this helps, good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
Edited by - andy64tms on 05/25/2012 12:29:35 |
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avik
128 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 19:09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
Hi Avik,
MOST IMPORTANTLY: how do I treat the pain of the spasm?
This should read “LEAST IMPORTANTLY”. Try treating your pain with contempt and with the knowledge that it is only a minor inconvenience. I know it is in the forefront and the only thing you are aware of right now, but I understand this is the distraction that TMS uses to get your attention and to remain.
I became more aware of this from Dave a few weeks ago when he kindly said:
“Recovery is not about becoming pain free, which IMO is an unrealistic goal. It is about understanding why you get these symptoms, and not allowing them to control you.”
You can see our chit chat in this thread:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7270&whichpage=2
I came up with a saying “Forget about your pain, so that it will forget about you.” to remind me of this. This excellent thread went into great depths on how we should view our pain, and in summary you should expect to become pain free, BUT it should not become your main concern. You should try to forget about it, and give it as little credence as possible.
How do you do this? Playing football while in pain does a few things:
1. It distracts you, being one of your favorite pastimes.
2. You are telling your pain it is unimportant.
3. You are facing your fear of the pain getting worse.
4. You would be convincing yourself that it is NOT a physical issue.
5. You are not allowing the pain to control you.
6. On a physical level you might be loosening up the spasm and increasing blood supply, but being physical this is of minor importance.
In my opinion any form of activity would suffice, but should rank in your top favorites. For instance a jog around the block might work for you as well.
When I need, I do my own form of Yoga stretching. I believe McKenzie exercises target pinched nerves, which is not TMS theory. In your mind turn your exercise stretches into your own form. I think this is the best time to talk to your brain, when you are in pain, as you pull into each stretch and the mild pain it produces. By the way you can say whatever you want, cussing is allowed.
Hey, I’ve just made up a TMS motto. “When in pain talk to your brain.”
Regarding pain killers, for my low level of pain I use Tylenol PM. By taking pain medication I’m saying. “OK TMS you win for now, I’ll see you tomorrow”. I did this last night as I’ve had two days of stress that ended up in my neck stiffening up and a full blown headache. As you can see I’m back.
Avik, I hope this helps, good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain
Andy-thanks for your reply.
I took your advice (this morning) and went to the gym. I love working out so I went and took it somewhat easy.
The pain is now worse.
The sharpness in my neck is so severe that it is downright debilitating. The thought of moving my head to the left side gives me anxiety, let alone playing football.
Im doing everything I can...talking to myself, pushing myself to do things (I just came back from Ikea and was in agony the whole time) and just living life.
The neck problem stops me in my tracks...I cant live my life when my neck is hurting, which is why its probably such an effective form of TMS...
I am still carrying this fear that I have nerve damage and that pushing it too hard will either damage the nerve/spine more or (just as bad) make the spasm worse, keeping me out of work, gym, life, even longer.
I am not the "stay home and bitch/wallow in my pain" type. I am a very active and social person. Which again...is why this darn thing is so effective... |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 22:46:05
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Hi Avik,
Sorry to hear this did not work for you as it did for me. You have my admiration for trying something different. It shows that your will and body are ready, but your sub-conscious is not. TMS is doing everything right by making your pain worse. Try this some other time.
I believe your next step is to convince yourself that there is no nerve damage even if it means visiting a TMS doctor. Investigate your mind and ponder questions about your nerve damage. For example if you really did have nerve damage, then why does the pain come and go? You stated that your spasms are on/off. If you truly had nerve damage wouldn’t the pain stay with you all the time? Only you can find the answer to dealing with the fear on this issue, Balto has a lot of good postings on this subject.
My fear of pain has somewhat been dispelled, since I ran through the pain to recovery. I did have it once though, here is paragraph from my success storey, note the comment about the nerve.
This was the first time I felt confident enough to jog for 7-8 years. I felt no jogging pain at all until later that day. I had done the opposite to convention, Prior to this, years ago I remember jogging around the local park with considerable lower back sciatica pain. I was absolutely convinced that each step caused a nerve to pinch between my vertebrae. At that time I gave up jogging completely. I was now elated and realized that Dr Sarno’s book, mere written words had started to sink in.
I also sense that you are trying too hard and you are setting a time table by mentioning “number of days” and “time frame”. TMS has all the time in the world. You are used to getting immediate results from exercise that you love. You are worried about locking up your neck for days, TMS knows this; so what if you are laid up in bed for a couple of days with a good book and good bottle of wine,(drh7900 quote).
Also physical activity I believe plays a secondary role in dealing with TMS, I do very little these days to combat pain, but all that I have written so far has worked for me, I hope I have not misled you in this area. Dr. Sarno states clearly that we should stop all treatments, yet we have discussed nothing but so far. Logically we have to discuss treatment, pain and exercise to enormous depths before accepting that TMS is in the brain and not physical.
Have a good memorial weekend
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
Edited by - andy64tms on 05/25/2012 22:52:11 |
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avik
128 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 23:06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
Hi Avik,
Sorry to hear this did not work for you as it did for me. You have my admiration for trying something different. It shows that your will and body are ready, but your sub-conscious is not. TMS is doing everything right by making your pain worse. Try this some other time.
I believe your next step is to convince yourself that there is no nerve damage even if it means visiting a TMS doctor. Investigate your mind and ponder questions about your nerve damage. For example if you really did have nerve damage, then why does the pain come and go? You stated that your spasms are on/off. If you truly had nerve damage wouldn’t the pain stay with you all the time? Only you can find the answer to dealing with the fear on this issue, Balto has a lot of good postings on this subject.
My fear of pain has somewhat been dispelled, since I ran through the pain to recovery. I did have it once though, here is paragraph from my success storey, note the comment about the nerve.
This was the first time I felt confident enough to jog for 7-8 years. I felt no jogging pain at all until later that day. I had done the opposite to convention, Prior to this, years ago I remember jogging around the local park with considerable lower back sciatica pain. I was absolutely convinced that each step caused a nerve to pinch between my vertebrae. At that time I gave up jogging completely. I was now elated and realized that Dr Sarno’s book, mere written words had started to sink in.
I also sense that you are trying too hard and you are setting a time table by mentioning “number of days” and “time frame”. TMS has all the time in the world. You are used to getting immediate results from exercise that you love. You are worried about locking up your neck for days, TMS knows this; so what if you are laid up in bed for a couple of days with a good book and good bottle of wine,(drh7900 quote).
Also physical activity I believe plays a secondary role in dealing with TMS, I do very little these days to combat pain, but all that I have written so far has worked for me, I hope I have not misled you in this area. Dr. Sarno states clearly that we should stop all treatments, yet we have discussed nothing but so far. Logically we have to discuss treatment, pain and exercise to enormous depths before accepting that TMS is in the brain and not physical.
Have a good memorial weekend
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain
Andy-
Thanks very much for taking the time to write these replies.
You have not misled me at all; I think my situation (like everyones) is very specific to my life experience/situation and therefore may respond differently to various actions taken.
I do get that I need to stop fighting this thing. I need to stop putting into strict, pre-set parameters (like I do with everything else in my life)and just "be", with the pain.
I am going to start doing this right now...and just do what I can to accept the situation and what will be, will be.
I have two questions for you:
Is it physically possible to have a pinched nerve that doesnt cause pain all the time?
Second, I understand treating the spasm with some stretching and an occasional painkiller is ok if you know you are only providing temporary relief. But, what about doing McKenzie type exercises?
I worry that may be doing these for the long term benefit (not acceptable ala TMS) as opposed to the short-term pain relief (acceptable). To be honest, now that I think of it, im worried about doing basic stretching as well. Reason being, I have developed this "get pain then stretch" routine over the past 10+ years that is so embedded in my TMS that im not sure I can consciously (and sub-consciously)stretch with the thought that its for anything BUT neck pain. Id like to be able to stretch my back and neck daily just for general good health but I am not confident that I can separate it from the above routine, which ive used solely to combat pain.
I guess if I had no doubts about not having a pinched nerve/herniated disc/"weak" cervical vertebrae, then I would not be doing the McKenzie exercises or stretching my neck so vigorously... |
Edited by - avik on 05/25/2012 23:12:47 |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2012 : 13:07:31
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Hi Avik,
I cannot answer your first question, it’s for medical advice and I’m not qualified. TMS is serious stuff and I discourage you from asking medical advice on a forum.
I also have a bias, as when I hear the words “pinched nerves” I automatically think of “pinch of salt”. Have you got Dr. Sarno’s “Healing Back pain”? He discusses this and doesn’t seem too thrilled with the concept. We cannot attach files through this forum, but you can download it from here:
http://www.federaljack.com/ebooks/My%20collection%20of%20medical%20books,%20208%20Books%20(part%202%20of%203)/Healing_Back_Pain_The_Mind.pdf
In this file and you can read his comments about pinched nerves on page 121 pdf or 106 of the book. I don’t feel too guilty downloading it since I have worn out his paperback copy, and have his tapes.
You could also get enlightenment by searching this forum using search or Googling it.
So you are worried about treatment vs. exercise thing, join the TMS club. The conclusion I came to was that both of these are temporary fixes. Here is a quote from one of my past postings titled “How TMS worked for me”.
A specific yoga stretch for my lower back when it starts to niggle has become my routine. This has been done in restaurants, airports, at work, before and after windsurfing, evenings, at night, and occasionally all through the night. I literally switch off my sciatic pain before it gets a hold. I know this stretching might be considered “treatment”, but I have to say “It works for me”. Is this a placebo after 12 years, or am I giving the sciatic nerve a boost of oxygen I ask, or is this just exercise? I just don’t know to this day. You see by inducing the pain on the stretch, I am saying I don’t care about it, that I know why it is there and I am laughing at it without fear.
Since writing this I have re-read in HBP that Dr Sarno is dead against exercises that target specific pain. He even dispensed with his team doing physical therapy research, that’s how strongly he felt about it. I did not get an answer to my placebo question lasting 12 years. We both seem to have the same question, as we are combating our pain.
To be honest my lower back stretching has helped me many times over for twelve years, but has it really done a good job for me? NO, TMS moved to my neck, BUT I have had twelve years of relief. TMS understanding is very difficult.
Avik you may have to copy and paste this link to your browser bar.
Good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
Edited by - andy64tms on 05/26/2012 13:14:03 |
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2012 : 16:34:02
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Avik - regarding your question: "Is it physically possible to have a pinched nerve that doesnt cause pain all the time?"
I can't remember which book it's in (HBP or MBP or maybe both) but Sarno discusses the fact that a pinched nerve would NOT cause any lasting pain. If a nerve is continually pinced, it will go numb...that's the nature of nerves. He references research from a neurologist who wrote a paper called "do herniated discs cause pain" or something similar in which the neurologist draws the same conclusion...pinching a nerve could deaden it...even kill it if it's done long enough, but a disc "pinching" a nerve would not be the source of the pain.
Take all this with a grain of salt as I am pulling it from memory. Your best bet, if you haven't already, is read one of Sarno's books...or two...there's a lot of good information in there. Also, make sure you have ruled out other serious potential causes of pain such as rumors or cancer if you haven't already. But if you don't have a serious medical condition and you have a history that's suggestive of TMS (or heck, if you can get to a TMS doctor) you can follow the plethora of advice available on treating TMS.
I, too, am having trouble with not tracking how long it's taking to recover or monitoring the pain...those are traits that will make it longer to heal, but I am making progress...I'm doing lots of things I haven't done in years out of fear of aggravating my pain. It takes a different amount of time for each person based on history and ability to accept the cause of the pain as psychological...but it works...no reason it won't work for us!
--
Dustin |
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avik
128 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2012 : 18:51:49
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Andy, DrH
Ive read all of Sarnos books, multiple times.
Ive cured myself of a laundry list of TMS equivalents but this thing just has me stumped.
I will continue to read, write and try and forget the pain but when the pain is so bad that the simplest movement brings on searing pain, I dont see how I can just forget. I am trying though...
Andy-can you describe you "Charlie horse" to me?
Lets just assume for a moment that I dont have a pinched nerve and that this is TMS and just oxygen deprivation that ha physically caused a neck spasm.
Why then when I massage this area, does it get MUCH WORSE? This I what cannot understand...
Is this part of the sneakiness/complexity of TMS or, do I simply have a muscle spasm and spasms get worse when you try to manipulate them too much?
I see myself trying to figure this out and expending way too much energy and focus in doing so. After experiencing 15+ years of virtually every TMS equivalent and beating the majority of them, I am hoping that this neck issue is my TMS's last stronghold and that it is simply putting up its best fight before completely "letting me go".
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2012 : 23:39:51
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Avik, I wish I had some good advice or an awesome explanatIon for you. I imagine it must be very frustrating to have read the books and to be cycling through the equivalents as you have. I have only been in my TMS recovery journey for a short time and struggle to make myself do things that I feared would hurt more in the past.
While I'm not saying its easy to do so, fully and completely accepting the TMS theory is obviously the first step. While it sounds like you're most of the way there...it doesn't sound like you're all the way there (can I admit I struggle with this too?). As I have heard others say, as long as there is even the tiniest shred of doubt, it'll keep fueling the fire.
It sounds like the neck pain is one that your brain is successful in using to fuel doubt. Massage won't necessarily increase blood flow and if it's already tense and painful, perhaps it causes the muscles to spasm more,
Do you/have you reviewed Sarno's 12 daily reminders lately. Have you spent any time "meditating" and possibly trying to link the pain to any emotions or even focus on positive emotions? Are there any emotions surrounding the tackle or the game that could allow your brain to take advantage of the physical activities to use as triggers? Remember, that's what Sarno says the physical incidents are...triggers. Any thoughts as you're playing the game that might lend to an inner rage, even if not directed toward the game? Work? Friends? Family? Finances? Health? just because you were in a great mood doesn't mean you weren't suppressing something...as TMSers, that's what we do...we cork the bad emotions and convince ourselves that we are doing great. I'm not necessarily asking for answers...I'm just hoping to help you think of what might have been going on deeper in your mind that could be the reason this physical trigger works so well.
If a doctor checked out your neck and other than the herniated discs (which are normal) there's nothing of concern, I'd say you have something in your inner child raging and trying to surface and your brain is desperate to keep your attention off it. I know how hard it is not to be in a bad mood when the pain is there...I know how miserable it can be to experience pain for well over a decade. But don't focus on the pain...focus on your emotions.
And whether or not your reviewing the 12 reminders...do it again...you've conquered other equivalents..if this is TMS, you can reign victorious yet again.
--
Dustin |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2012 : 14:08:51
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Hi Avik,
I have read all your 74 postings since you joined the forum in 2010. If you don’t mind me saying so a couple of things struck me as being odd, and a few trends come to light.
1. You have lots more experience than I have, as you seem to have had many more ailments to contend with than I. You really should be giving me advice. I think you have done very well many times over, as each one of your successes should have increased your skills and TMS knowledge base. Have each of your previous successes actually been with Dr. Sarno’s methodology or have you just being treating each one with treatment and exercise?
2. Understandably you are focused on the physical and pain issues. From my quick counting 70 of them relate this area of TMS. Are you aware of this?
3. You are a proponent of journaling and lists, is this where you store the emotional stories? You mentioned journaling about good events, as per Dr Schubiner’s exercises. I’d love to read some of them, as this would inspire me to do the same. The point is that every time you write positively you are not focusing on your pain. My “Tears of laughter” storey gave me a real boost, and really put issues in perspective, I had a good laugh for days.
4. I have got tangled up with you in discussions about pain and how to cope with physical issues, so I too am guilty of this. You are now asking me to describe my “Charlie Horse on my neck”. Do you really want to know about the physical aspect of it or how I view the TMS side? Please give me the right answer, as I am only willing to write about one of these, sorry.
I’m not trying to make you feel awkward or embarrass you, I really want to help. Please remember I am not a professional, I'm learning too.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
Edited by - andy64tms on 05/27/2012 14:11:14 |
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avik
128 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 10:37:58
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
Hi Avik,
I have read all your 74 postings since you joined the forum in 2010. If you don’t mind me saying so a couple of things struck me as being odd, and a few trends come to light.
1. You have lots more experience than I have, as you seem to have had many more ailments to contend with than I. You really should be giving me advice. I think you have done very well many times over, as each one of your successes should have increased your skills and TMS knowledge base. Have each of your previous successes actually been with Dr. Sarno’s methodology or have you just being treating each one with treatment and exercise?
2. Understandably you are focused on the physical and pain issues. From my quick counting 70 of them relate this area of TMS. Are you aware of this?
3. You are a proponent of journaling and lists, is this where you store the emotional stories? You mentioned journaling about good events, as per Dr Schubiner’s exercises. I’d love to read some of them, as this would inspire me to do the same. The point is that every time you write positively you are not focusing on your pain. My “Tears of laughter” storey gave me a real boost, and really put issues in perspective, I had a good laugh for days.
4. I have got tangled up with you in discussions about pain and how to cope with physical issues, so I too am guilty of this. You are now asking me to describe my “Charlie Horse on my neck”. Do you really want to know about the physical aspect of it or how I view the TMS side? Please give me the right answer, as I am only willing to write about one of these, sorry.
I’m not trying to make you feel awkward or embarrass you, I really want to help. Please remember I am not a professional, I'm learning too.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain
Andy-
Its not embarrassing or awkward at all, quite the contrary-I appreciate you going back and reading up on what ive written.
Yes, I am quite experienced with this whole thing and have beaten (dont like to compare to anyone else here) one of the most extreme cases of TMS that I have read about and that my TMS doc here in NY has seen. I lost the ability to use one of my legs, hearing in my left ear, extreme fatigue that kept me out of work for months, parasthesia that prevented me from wearing clothing for days at a time, TMJ, chronic IBS for years on end, swollen parotid glands ...not great experiences (and thats the short list).
I have been through my fair share of trauma over the past 15 years and, I was abused as a child.
All that said, I have and continue to be stumped/fooled with this neck issue. It (along with periodic bouts of insomnia)simply does not react to what ive "used" to treat all of my other issues.
I do (for some odd reason) still feel like there is some sort of structural issue, even though it makes no sense for me to think this way because its been here for 8 long years, it CONSTANTLY moves around my neck and back and,I have had the MRIs and have seen the dr's and the worst ive heard thus far is is is "a slight disc herniation".
So, I am constantly asking people what they experience b/c if I can see a similarity in the pain patterns, then I might be able to finally get rid of this thing, psychologically.
I really feel like this is my TMS's last stronghold and that its putting up its final fight (or at least I hope).
So to answer your last question, yes-id like to know about the physical aspect of your neck experience/pain b/c if I can hear/read enough stories that are closely related to mine, then maybe it will "take" in my sub-conscious. This will allow me to say "you see brain, they have the same thing, and its worked for them".
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Edited by - avik on 05/28/2012 10:42:26 |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 14:59:06
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Hi Avik,
This was not the answer I was expecting! I was thinking: “this guy has had so many physical issues; he is overly focused on the pain-physical side”. However early on in Dr. Sarno’s HBP he says it is imperative to convince yourself there is nothing wrong structurally. I see what your direction is.
You must have had your work cut out for you having to deal with each and every ailment over the last 15 years and the fear each event brings. I am lucky, as have had that deep fear, only two times in the last 15 years, I know that shocking spasm fear that monopolizes your total mind and body. TMS is truly talented in how it distributes pain and fear differently, but so are you, look at your list of accomplishments, you are up there with SteveO, have you chatted with him yet?
It would benefit me to review my neck, since I found myself pondering my X-rays yesterday. Go back and read my past posting threads, I had exactly the same questions and feelings as you. I wanted answers.
Charlie Horse doubt from (February 2012):
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7265
Read the feed backs they are pertinent, and I was very comforted by them. I still don’t know whether my neck will ever straighten out, and I really don’t care anymore.
Look at the curvature of the neck pictures on the link.
http://themendingpath.wordpress.com/
On Back2it’s advice I got Martha Petersons Somantics (Hanna) books and tapes. I found them to be the opposite of my Yoga regimen so I nicknamed her routines “Soggy Yoga”. I’m sure they help people, but overly focus on the physical for me right now. I’m keeping an open mind since I have had a very tight body for 20 years now, definitely brought about subconsciously.
I can’t believe Marla is currently having so much trouble, she advised me so well. Part of this syndrome is that it makes you forget your own “best” advice.
Previous to this I had visited my GP about my neck and you might find this thread useful.
Charlie Horse on my neck (March 2012):
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7218
A couple of other things, you used the word “stronghold”. What makes you think your pain won’t move again? Perhaps the last stronghold is in your brain not in your pain.
Avik, I wrote another answer to you about how I view my neck pain. I will put it in a new posting called “Now I’m being silly part 2”
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
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Needs some help making sense of this Neck issue:
