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Composer
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - 05/27/2012 : 13:43:27
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Mala,
You have asserted your own needs, your own identity, and strength in contrary to social expectations often. I really respect you. However, could there exist another Mala who feels some secret shame or thinks she deserves punishment for this success or for "failing" to live up to others' cultural standards or demands? Somewhere long ago...deep down?
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 03:16:57
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quote:
You have asserted your own needs, your own identity, and strength in contrary to social expectations often. I really respect you. However, could there exist another Mala who feels some secret shame or thinks she deserves punishment for this success or for "failing" to live up to others' cultural standards or demands? Somewhere long ago...deep down?
Composer. No this has definitely never been the case. It has never manifested in my thoughts even when I have been journalling. but thanks for thinking about me. There's been anger & frustration at people including my own mother & also my mother in law for being so narrow minded despite their education & exposure to the world. But I have gotten over that. I have also had the support of my younger sister who is married to a French guy. She has 2 beautiful children who are half French half Indian, being raised in HK , speaking Mandarin as well as French & English & live in a world which is so like the United Colours of Benneton. Wonderful.
EileenTM Thanks. I have ben thru the whole thing of being angry & then forgiving my father. Thats done & dusted. IN the past. Another chapter. Must move on & look forward.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 14:26:02
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Hi Mala,
Go back and read some of your previous wonderfully encouraging postings. This is what you wrote to me on 3/14/2012. One of the powers of TMS to make us forget our own beliefs, we have short memories.
“Fortunately the body wants to heal, has a predisposition to heal & will heal given half a chance. So you must start sending signals to your body that will help it to recover. Think positive, think psychological, do meditation to relax. Do anything to take your mind off the pain but most of all find something that will reduce the fear, tension & anxiety in yr mind. That in turn will help the body.”
I think it was Lynnl who said “It’s impossible for fear tension & anxiety to exist when you’re laughing” I tend to agree.
Balto is right look for fun and happiness, you can’t have fear and happiness at the same time.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 08:19:38
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quote:
Originally posted by mala
Balto I am just as stumped & bewildered as you are about how long I have tried to banish this pain from my life. I get what you say about the fear & I have tried various things like yoga, meditation, keeping myself active and busy. I am not fearful person by nature but this pain has turned my world upside down. Andy i have never lived my life conventionally so I believe I am not a fearful person unless it is about PAIN.
When you move to lived with your grandfather in India, you just made up your mind and did.
When you modelling, you just made up your mind and modelling.
When you bought that convertible, you just made up your mind and bought.
You've made up your mind: to be the first girl to ride Vespa in India, to live on your own, to delay marriage, to not having kids,...
Everything you've done in life, you have to made up your mind to do it and accept the consequences. YOU HAVE MADE CHOICES.
With tms/anxiety pain, elliminate the fear of the symptoms is key to getting well.
Now you have to make up your mind to no longer fear your symptoms. You have to make a choice to no longer fear your symptoms. NO matter what happen. If you can do that, you will be cure.
All roads lead to Rome. All treatment methods tried to achieve the same thing: no more fear of the symptoms.
Goodluck Mala. |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 06:37:09
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Hi Mala,
I've been mulling this over.
You said:
quote:
Keep ignoring the pain? Well that is what I have done for so long.
Be more physical? Whenever I do the pain gets worse. I thought it wasn't supposed to. Now the back pain has become Sciatica. Anyway I am still keeping active.
Rest? Ride out a pain episode. I don't really have episodes. The pain i there most of the time. Just waxes & wanes. When it gets really bad I lie down for a while if I can.
I haven't been too successful at being able to abort a pain episode.
I am really unable to think of 'What next'?
Just today I picked up Mind Body Prescription and on pg 169 Sarno talks about Recurrence of Pain.
"Does the pain ever come back? Yes it can- but very infrequently. Follow up Surveys have indicated that. The rate of permanent cure is somewhere between 90 to 95 %'
Well that statement is definitely not true of people here on this forum. Or are we just not able to accept & acknowledge the idea of a psychologically induced physical disorder?
Then there are people who are using other modalities like stretching, meditation, yoga, EFT etc etc which sarno says to avoid at all cost. How does this fit in with his rather purist take on TMS. I know other tms partitioners do include them in their treatment.
Any more thoughts please?
So far, it seems you have tried:
1. ignoring the pain and just doing whatever you want and staying active.
2. Resting when it gets really bad.
3. Journalling (not sure what method, and I think the method DOES matter, but the method you tried didn't work to relieve your pain.)
And so far, you would say, none of these has really worked (?) despite years at this. And this is NOT the outcome you wanted!
This is what I would suggest you think about, or try:
If it were me (and I am thinking through this as if it WAS me because I am wondering if my fatigue problems are TMS or not... long story but I'm not convinced they ARE because I do have a medical dx for something else which is likely contributing, but I digress)... 1. You said that "I haven't been TOO SUCCESSFUL IN BEING ABLE TO ABORT A PAIN EPISODE." OK, but have you been a LITTLE BIT SUCCESSFUL and IF you have, what method were you using, and I would suggest you try more in that direction. I would definitely try to move in the direction of ABORTING a pain episode...
1. THINK BACK OVER THE MANY YEARS YOU'VE BEEN DOING TMS. WHAT HAS ACTUALLY EVER REALLY HELPED YOU???? HAS ANYTHING EVER REALLY SOOTHED THE PAIN? DO MORE OF THAT. GO FOR ABORTING PAIN ! YOU DO NOT WANT PAIN!!
IF IT MAKES IT WORSE OR YOU DOESN'T HELP, THEN IT IS NOT HELPING AND CROSS IT OFF THE LIST !! FOR ME, THAT INCLUDES WHATEVER 'PURIST-SARNO' IS. What matters is that you get help with your pain, not that you follow some "rule" from some book, from some expert who doesn't even know you!!
But be VERY SPECIFIC about what you try ... "journalling" is too vague ... there are MANY different kinds, so I would suggest you be VERY careful as you go down your list crossing things off that are NOT working ...
Then if that doesn't work, you could try using techniques you haven't tried before. For example:
1. TRAUMA RELEASE EXERCISES (TRE). There was a big long thread where I showed my progress using this technique. I stopped doing it for a long while, but the hyperarousal is now back and I am going back to these exercises as of last night and I slept better than I have in weeks if not months! Anyway, the thread about Berceli's TRE is here:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5666
2. ESTABLISH A STRONG MIND-BODY-SPIRIT-LINK FOR FIVE MINUTES A DAY AND THEN TAKE CONTROL OVER YOUR SUBCONSCIOUS MIND, using PAIN TALK, IMAGINING A VICTORY or PICTURING CHANGES IN YOUR BODY. These suggestions come from Scott Brady's book, Pain Free for Life (he studied with Sarno and he is not really a Sarno purist, but frankly, what you are going for is pain-relief, and not puritanism! Who cares?!)
3. TRY A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO JOURNALING
Scott Brady explains his "DEPTH JOURNALLING". I personally use the EMOTIONAL BRAIN TRAINING method of journaling. (Lori from this board suggested it to me WAY back and I do find it the most helpful of all the journaling methods I've ever tried, and of course, there's lots of types.)
4. TRY DIFFERENT WAYS OF GETTING YOUR EMOTIONS OUT! How are you REALLY FEELING RIGHT NOW about being in pain, for so many years???? !!!! how are you actually EXPRESSING all your fear and getting that FEAR OUT OF YOUR BODY? How are you EXPRESSING THOSE FEELINGS? Are you yelling and screaming about them, for example? Are you throwing things? Are you beating a pillow? How are you getting your RAGE about this out?
5. TRY DIFFERENT WAYS OF SOOTHING. How many ways can you soothe yourself? What is truly soothing to you? I must say this is where I don't do very well, but I DO think it is essential!! I DO believe that it IS about the RAGE/SOOoooooooooothe RATIO !! One thing I have tried lately is the Michael Krugman audios for Sounder Sleep and I have been finding those exercises helpful, at times. I also have used EMOTIONAL BRAIN TRAINING for many years, and that overall, has been extremely helpful, for me. Other things I find soothing are: window shopping, going out for breakfast, closing my eyes, etc, and you had once said you enjoyed driving, but obviously your list will be personal to you, and may be different now than any "lists" you've used in the past!
6. TRY WHATEVER ELSE YOU MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT APPEALS TO YOU. For example I am looking into 'somatic experiencing' myself right now (seems related to being more in touch with what is happening in one's body, which I probably need.) But my point here, is just to keep going down a list, trying things to soothe yourself, your feelings, your thoughts, and to ABORT THE PAIN. Your body will keep telling you what it likes and what it doesn't, what IS genuinely working and what isn't.
If you believe you have tried "purist Sarno" all these years, then I think you can safely conclude that it hasn't worked for you! Time to try something else .. maybe just a little LEFT of Sarno! or a little RIGHT! but TRY SOMETHING ELSE !!
Anyway, those are my thoughts for you, since you asked! My suggestion (take it or leave it of course) would be Just to keep trying things until you find something that genuinely works to abort the pain! And not in a stressed out, trying-too-hard kind, MUST GET RID OF THIS PAIN / FEAR kind of way, but more in a reflective, "OK, let's just see if this helps or not" /what is working 5 or 10% better for me? ok, I'll go more in THAT direction, a gentle, sweet kind of way... and if that feels stressful or makes you want to throw up your hands in frustration, or say to me, "But she doesn't understand MY fear around this!!" then EXPRESS THOSE FEELINGS!! (and I'd suggest in a more bodily way than just *writing* for example.)
Good luck .. I really hope things get better for you and you become free of your pain and fear!
RSR
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 12:04:34
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Hi Mala,
I hope you are doing better.
I just read RageSootheRatio’s thread and have to agree. “TRY SOMETHING NEW”, especially if it sooths and gives you happiness.
These are some of the NEW things I am doing lately for myself:
Windsurfing. This is my passion what’s your passion Mala?
Looking at Bruce Lipton and Joe Dispenza videos. This is new for me, and very inspirational.
Last night I listened to U-Tube and 70’s music for a couple of hours. It was good for my soul, I just turned up the bass and raved a little. I know you like Freddie Mercury and the Queen, Mala. Those old songs the nostalgia, they bring up a swelling of emotions and joy and a sense of belonging, which is why people like concerts so much.
Also I am looking at exercising my crooked neck differently. I am going to chiro sites for the specific neck stretches. Sorry Dr. Sarno, I see them as exercise not treatment. These exercises will probably increase my pain and I am not afraid of this.
Thank you RageSootheRatio for your long thread and suggestions.
Get well Mala.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
Edited by - andy64tms on 06/02/2012 13:53:24 |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 04:26:03
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Hi RSR . Great Post. Many thanks. And to you too Andy.
The kind of journalling I have been doing is the format laid out in the TMS Wiki Structured program. I am more of a talker than a writer. I find it easier to express myself orally than in writing. I am not a great fan of journalling & it does not come to me naturally but the structured program got me started & helped me keep going.
I do some yoga breathing as well & was doing well till like I said in my first post the back got worse from sitting cross legged.
About getting my emotions out. I used to shout & scream a lot in my sleep growing up. And I had a lot of rage. I would lash out at the littlest thing & tell people off, throw stuff etc. When I got married, I would have temper tantrums but my husband just ignored them & would tell me sweetly that there was no point. To be fair though he was right. Its just that I had gotten used to being angry at the smallest thing. I realized that there was no longer any need for the anger especially if I was to make my marriage work. So I am a much less angry person now than I ever was.
I love to dance. In fact I had taken up dancing lessons again a couple of months ago but now I've stopped since the pain started. That is something I truly love.
Andy funny that. I did exactly the same thing.Put on some music & danced around the house. the result was a stiff neck the next day which freaked me out but it was still fun.
I also watch a lot of movies at the cinema,. In fact just saw MIB 3 today & enjoyed it thoroughly.
Have I been a sarno purist? I'm not sure. I always stretch, do gentle Yoga, go for a massage when I need to. But there is some conflict in my mind and that makes all those things slightly less enjoyable.
I am in a strange sort of place at the moment. I am not good with pain. I've had it too long without respite. Maybe some people are better at handling/dealing with it. When I hurt I don't want to do anything except Wallow. I have been going around looking at other people a lot. Their posture etc. I've been told that my posture is not good, too much lumbar curve, neck too straight. Tummy muscles not tight enough. And I look at people genuinely laughing enjoying themselves & I wonder if I'll ever be like that again or am I doomed at 53 to spend the rest of my life like this.
I have friends older than I am who are so fit & play sports and I am envious of them. I'm also fed up that people are always asking me about my back. Its embarrassing. Also maybe my perfectionist nature won't accept anything less than a 100% recovery which is not helping either.
I have tried EFT but not the Berceli method. I'll read up on that & find out more.
RSR your advice is solid especially the bit about soothing the pain in a gentler, kinder way & I will keep looking for ways and make it easier on myself.
Thanks ever so much for your post & for yr concern.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 06/03/2012 17:13:59 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 07:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by mala
Some of u may know that i've been around since about 2003, i have had periods when the pain has been less but its always back & this time with a vengeance . Previously it was always back pain. Now I have got back pain with irritation of the sciatic nerve. What has freaked me out was this burning pain in my left foot. I thought I had dropped hot water on it but no such luck. I 've been to the Dr. X ray shows Lots & lots of degeneration at the L4/5, L5/S1 levels & a very very arched back. Same old, same old.
I somehow did this to myself. I had been sitting cross legged doing some breathing exercises. My body does not like sitting cross legged too long so i challenged myself & kept at it for 2 weeks. It somehow irritated the nerve. So much for ignoring the pain & pushing on. I thought it was not supposed to get worse!!!!!!
i've done all the reading, the journalling, the ignoring , the talking to the brain thing. I am now stumped and in a very very frightening place. Yes I am really fearing this now.
Also my insides feel sore & irritated ( Tummy & Uterus area
One thing I have noticed & this is absolutely spot on. I really don't think its conditioning either but the hot, wet weather has always been bad for me. That is April till Sept usually, then it becomes dry & without fail it gets better.
At wits end.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
I look at the above and I see a classic TMs'er. UNderstand Mala, regarding the cross legged sitting, we must utilize a bit of common sense. We're flesh and blood, and if a position is uncomfortable for you because you're not flexible enough (presumably), then you're asking for trouble by forcing it. We must pick our battle wisely.
It's also important to understand that fear is the clay with which we mold our own symptoms. Monitor your thoughts for a few hours and just see how many of them are fearful in nature. Forget all the journaling; it's probably holding you back. What you need in my opinion ...what we all need at least at a certain point...it escape from our own heads. Live as fearlessly as you can. STOP WORRYING AND OBSESSING ABOUT YOUR BODY.
A healthy, pain free life is easily within your reach. Entirely up to you.
Wishing you the best.
A. |
Edited by - art on 06/03/2012 11:09:25 |
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worst its ever been
