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Busted
73 Posts |
 Posted - 05/06/2012 : 20:20:18
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So you know how Dr. Sarno says desk ergonomics is a bunch of BS? Does the same apply to bike riding?
I bought a used bike today, and the guy I bought it from (who seemed knowledgeable about bikes) said that my feet should not be flat on the ground when I'm sitting in the seat, because the legs should be completely stretched out when peddling. All I could think of was, is this a bunch of BS as well? Is there a reason that my legs can't be slightly bent when I'm peddling? Is this just another one of those rules that society has made up (like always bend at your knees when lifting) that Sarno would say is a bunch of crap?
This all reminds me of my favorite Sarno quote "I encourage my patients to slouch" A man after my own heart! :)
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rbart4506
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 10:56:18
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I bike...
Getting your legs in proper position will make you more efficient on the bike. Therefore in theory you should be able to go farther and faster with less effort...
And biking DOES NOT harm your back :)
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 11:04:53
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But can peddling with your legs bent harm your knees? Or is that just a bunch of BS? Actually, I can probably confirm that it IS a bunch of BS, cause last summer I bought a kids 20" bike and rode long distances on it, and my knees were fine :)
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lynnl
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 11:31:07
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This reminds me of a Mark Twain quote (or maybe it was Will Rogers):
"Be careful reading 'health books,' you might die of a misprint."
Lynn |
Edited by - lynnl on 05/07/2012 11:31:34 |
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rbart4506
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 18:06:41
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| Probably a bunch of BS...But if you are talking efficiency it's not BS, but I'm not talking about riding a bike with your kids...I'm talking racing where you are trying to gain any advantage over your competition... |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2012 : 18:51:45
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Thanks! I feel more secure with my feet touching the ground, so I'm going to be a rebel and ride with my knees bent!
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 08:06:31
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Seems unwise to jump on one or two anonymous posts as confirmation that it's ok to do something that may or may not be wise. I used to do a lot of biking and injured myself with a seat position that was too low. It put extra stress in my knees ande I eventually broke down. I'd trust the collective wisdom that's evolved over the decades in the biking culture. All of course just my opinion. But people do get injured, runners, bikers, sports enthusiats of whatevver stripe.
I'm a runner and a TMS'er. MOst of my apparent injuries have been TMS. But a few were real. As always, proceed with reasonable caution. Just because I have TMS doesn't mean I should ignore say, the generally accepted rule of thumb to keep any mileage increase to no more than 10 percent per week. In fact at age 61 it's more like no more than 5 percent a month :-) |
Edited by - art on 05/08/2012 08:09:08 |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 08:47:05
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But doesn't collective wisdom also say you should bend at the knees when lifting, and that your feet should be flat on the floor with your arms extended when you're sitting at a desk all day? Sarno says that's all poppycock.
And what about the professional BMX bikers who are 6'0 and ride 20" inch bikes?
I don't doubt you had a real injury, just trying to make sense of all of this.
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 09:17:53
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IMO, just do whatever feel right and feel comfortable to you. If it hurt or feel arkward then stop. I think worry too much about every little thing is very conducive to tms/anxiety. If it feel uncomfortable doing something just stop and change. Your body knows.
Life is full of man made fear. We don't want to have more to worry about. How long should I chew my food? how fast/slow should I eat? How often should one have sex and for how long? How many hours should I watch TV? how long can I stay out in the sun? How much vitamin to take each day? how often should I pray?... We have more than enough to worry about.
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Wodg
Australia
89 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 18:47:39
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The knee should have a 15 degree bend so not straight(efficency/comfort)
BMX races last minutes and the rider doesn't sit on the seat. The knees have a 15 degree bend.
BTW I always slouch at my desk, don't lift properly but always set up my bike correctly as I can go faster and get less tired = more enjoyment.
I doubt you will injure yourself with excessive bend in the knee, you just might have to take it easy as it's really hard work to cycle like this. |
Edited by - Wodg on 05/08/2012 18:53:49 |
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rbart4506
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 20:42:44
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There are many ways to set saddle height and most are very subjective and personal. In other words, what works for you may not work for someone else. I've had my share of professional fittings and none have been as comfortable as the one I have developed over the years that I have cycled.
I'm certain that I have more then 15deg of bend in my knee at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Personally I think 15deg causes a rider to be seated to high and limits their ability to ankle and develop power on the downstroke.
Again, personally, when I had my saddle higher I always had lower back issues (TMS related of course now realized) and saddle sore issues. Since lowering the saddle I am much more comfortable and my butt never bothers me :)
Busted, do what you want and play with the height to see what feels more comfortable.
BTW cycling is an awesome and healthy thing to do...
Did my first club time trial of the year and planning on racing in a few more weeks...As SteveO mentioned in another thread, gotta get back to living :)
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 09:40:44
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| Thanks everyone! I haven't ridden an adult bike in years, so for right now I'm most comfortable knowing I can put my feet on the ground when I want to. Maybe at some point I'll make the seat higher. Like I said, I spent all last summer riding a kid's bike (I'm petite 5'2" so I can get away with it lol) and my knees never bothered me. |
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rbart4506
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 13:52:50
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oh you have a baby bike :)
j/k
Have fun riding...It's what keeps me sane and from getting addicted to something that is not good for me... |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 20:37:28
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| I actually upgraded to a 24" bike, which seems to be just right for my size :) I was riding around on a 20" last summer, pretending that I was cool like a BMX rider. If only I could figure out how to do a backflip! lol |
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weatherman
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 13:44:53
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I'm curious to ask Art, was your knee issue diagnosed as chondromalacia? I had that over 30 years ago, and while I can pretty much do all the hiking and skiing I want, there seems to be a limit to how much I can bike - to the point that I never really push the issue. It's not really a burning issue to me at this time. I know Sarno says chondromalacia itself is harmless, but when my knees start talking I'm never really willing to go for broke and find out. I would be most interested to hear from anybody who has successfully "pushed through" chondromalacia, as there are no such examples in my TMS books.
"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." |
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rbart4506
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 06:06:49
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Don't know if what I had was Chondromalacia or not, but my knees were a pain :)
Then it was my ankle and now my back...
Each time I made slight fit adjustments to combat the issue, but in reality it just took time for things to clear up...
I'm certain that it was TMS before, I just didn't know it...
Again if there's not structural damage then there's no problem. You do not bugger your knees just by riding along, or riding hard. Impacting them and blowing an ACL/MCL or a meniscus tear, yes that is an issue...
Rich
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 12:27:42
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quote:
Originally posted by weatherman
I'm curious to ask Art, was your knee issue diagnosed as chondromalacia? I had that over 30 years ago, and while I can pretty much do all the hiking and skiing I want, there seems to be a limit to how much I can bike - to the point that I never really push the issue. It's not really a burning issue to me at this time. I know Sarno says chondromalacia itself is harmless, but when my knees start talking I'm never really willing to go for broke and find out. I would be most interested to hear from anybody who has successfully "pushed through" chondromalacia, as there are no such examples in my TMS books.
"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."
I've had more knee symptoms/problems than I can keep track of. The only one that's been genuine is the one I'm dealing with now, which is a tracking issue. Structural. I'm doing my best to strengthen the surrounding muscles as that's the recommended course of action. I might also have to go to a brace.
That leaves perhaps 8 or ten episodes of knee pain over my decades long running career. I just run through them for the most part. Of course if the pain worsens significantly, then that could be a sign you're dealing with something more.
I even had an episode of pain and swelling recently which I ignored with good results.
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2012 : 17:03:59
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Busted,
I teach snow skiing to ski patrolers. Knees should not be fully extended nor past 90 degrees flexed when under stress. Any athlete will tell you that. It CAN and WILL cause problems. One of the key documented factors in ACL (largest stabilizing ligament in the knee) injuries on a ski slope is "hips below the knees" EG: a knee that is flexed beyond 90 degrees. That is no BS. It NEVER hurts to balance the load. I still bend knees when I lift and try to stay in balance left to right. Why use only the muscles (ligaments, etc) on the left, when you can use both? That just makes good sense.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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Would Sarno say the rules of biking are BS?
