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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2012 : 08:38:32
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Hello,
I am a 51 year old married male who has used Dr. Sarno's technique for ridding myself of a neck and shoulder problem I thought only my chiropractor could fix. So, I believe in the TMS methodology.
I was prescribed prilosec(evil)by a general practitioner that had no business doing so. Recently, when I tried to get off of it I had a major acid rebound incident which I believe may have screwed up my lower esophageal sphincter. The GI doc says it is now partially open and may always have been but I know I've never had symptoms like I have now.
My question is: has anybody had any luck re-training their lower esophageal sphincter using Dr. Sarno's method? I've had some amount of success but it's very hard to get it to last.
Anybody that's had success using Dr. Sarno's method on GERD I would love to hear from.
Thank you,
Jeff
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
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jaya
USA
175 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 10:26:30
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| welcome to the placebo effect...lose the prilosec crutch and move on with life and dont look back... ive been off it for 10 years |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 12:03:17
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Hi Jeff (gronesy),
Your posting reminded me of the time I visited a Nurse practitioner who prescribed me with Prilosec at my annual physical. This was five years ago and was the drug of the week. I had seasonal allergies, and if she had read my records she would have seen this. She insisted I had Gerd. I said “no, I did not”. She had actually continued writing the prescription. I said I did not have any problems like this. She ended by saying, “I did not know I had it as I only had it at night”. It was as is if she was on commission!!
Jaya can advise you better than I, but one thing for sure, if you want to find out about the bad side effects of drugs you are in the right place.
Good luck and welcome
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Now on Day 12 Wiki Edu.
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
Edited by - andy64tms on 04/19/2012 15:14:29 |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 12:48:59
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Hi Jeff,
Years ago I was put on Nexium for slight heartburn that I used to be able to conquer with something over the counter. When I tried to stop the Nexium (a month or so later) I then encountered the worst chronic heartburn I could ever imagine. It was like a blow torch was down my throat 24/7. Finally the doctor put me on a combo of Protonix & Elavil, which I have now been taking for probably 10 years. I rid myself of TMS back pain a few years ago, but I have not been able to get off the GERD meds. I'm just too terrified to try, plus I still have breakthrough heartburn once in a while. Sorry this probably isn't much of a help to you, but thought it might help to hear I went through something similiar. I always warn everyone never to start GERD medication unless you really need it!
Lisa |
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jaya
USA
175 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 13:20:05
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| my motto anymore is if i wasnt born with it i dont "need" it...its been working thus far |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 08:42:02
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I've tried two other times to quit and both times symptoms came back worse than before.
This third time I was advised to try switching to zantac because it's easier to get off of. I used it for 5 days and it apparently masked the rebound acidity until it was too much for zantac. That's when my month-long odyssey began.
Now, the GI doctor has me taking 2x the prilosec to stabilize and it's mostly working. I have my father's funeral to go to in a couple of weeks and then I'll get back to trying again to get off of prilosec.
What I was interested in knowinq was whether anybody has had any luck getting the lower esophageal sphincter to close off in between meals?
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 08:53:41
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[quote]Originally posted by andy64tms
Andy,
I totally agree that it's criminal how drug companies get overworked and under-informed practitioners to dispense their candy to unsuspecting patients who don't realize their doctors are depending on a drug company for information about drugs.
Jeff
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 08:58:23
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[quote]Originally posted by Busted
Lisa,
I feel for you and totally understand why you'd be reluctant to want to try again to get off of PPIs.
In my case, I'm more worried about the long-term affect of staying on them and believe I can re-train my body to work without them. It will just take time. This is a personal decision and I do not mean in any way to dictate what anybody else should do.
Remember that I never had sever symptoms to begin with and currently, prilosed is my biggest enemy.
Jeff
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
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Busted
73 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 11:10:46
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Jeff, I hope you are successful. I would love to get off of the drugs too. I never had severe symptoms before I was put on Nexium either. Quitting Nexium is what gave me the severe symptoms. When I first learned about TMS I wanted to quit the pills, but going without them is just too terrifying for me. If my foot pain is symptom imperative because my GERD was "cured" by the drugs, I'll choose to deal with the foot pain while I fight off TMS. Nothing was ever as hellish as that GERD. Good luck, and keep us informed. Maybe you can be an inspiration to me to someday get off of the pills!
Lisa
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sickagain
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 13:25:03
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| My reflux always decreases by a large percentage once a new bodily symptom shows up. Stupid TMS! Try a slug of aloe vera juice when the acid starts crawling up. |
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Joy_I_Am
United Kingdom
138 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 05:16:45
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Gronesy, I'm sorry about your father.
Re the reflux, I am in exactly the same position as you all - in November 2011 I was very slightly anaemic (like, half a point off normal) - only factor the doctor could think of was an occasional left sided rib pain - she put me on omeprazole (prilosec), 20mg daily. It did nothing for the pain, so a locum doc upped it to 40mg. I felt it wasn't making any difference, so came off it after two months, tapering it (probably a bit too quickly) at the end of January 2012. So I was on it just over 2 months.
I had horrible rebound when I came off it, but resisted going back on the PPI. But three months later, I have heartburn like I never did before! I mean, really, I did NOT suffer with heartburn before this, except on the occasion I ate something really challenging like a hot hot curry!
I looked up info on the parietal cells in the stomach (which the PPIs knock out) - they are supposed to regenerate in 54 days. Well, I'm well over that. I've also found a research paper to suggest that there is initial over-supply of the cells after coming off PPIs, but that this effect is not permanent. I've got all the information to tell me I shouldn't be feeling like this. But still I do.
I am heartened to read that Jaya managed to get off these heinous drugs - thanks Jaya! I do know I am living under a lot of daily stress right now (very little control over my life circumstances), and I suspect that my TMS has latched onto the heartburn when it saw the opportunity to 'plant' this stress somewhere. Doctors, fuss, pills - bingo!
I am taking otc ranitidine now, between 75 and 300mg a day, depending on the symptoms. I also got DGL licorice and slippery elm, and manuka honey. But these aren't making much difference, and I do think that it has become a TMS issue. I'm just afraid of doing more damage if I don't take something for the acid that my body is producing, for whatever reason. Yet another doctor has referred me for an gastroscopy, and I am determined to nail this by TMS methods before I get that, because I know, if they see the slightest signs of a inflammation, they will want to put me back on PPIs.
I think I have some serious journalling to do. I tried giving up coffee and wine, but this has made no difference, and besides, started to become a case of 'being good' and therefore 'deserving' not to feel pain - not what I need at all! More pressure on myself! (I genuinely don't drink too much, less than the government recommendation, but by 'blaming myself' I get to obsess over controlling my life; I see that).
I'm sure it is possible. People HAVE come off PPI's successfully. Our ancestors managed without them! Bodies heal themselves! In the course of my research, I became aware the the stomach actually has a marvellous range of self-healing strategies - when one defence is breached, another kicks in!
Good luck to everyone who's dealing with this. I am more and more convinced every day that, bar obvious things like appendicitis and broken legs, we are better off avoiding doctors if we can. Another doctor wanted to put me on SSRIs last year (on the basis of a three minute appointment) - I am so glad I resisted that, and I just wish I had resisted the PPIs. I am coming to realise that, for every drug, there is a payback, sometimes worth it, sometimes not. I don't think the PPIs are worth the payback. But I WILL get through this and move on!
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Joy_I_Am
United Kingdom
138 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 05:39:58
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Sorry about that massively long post, btw - hope it helps though!
Gronesy, meant to emphasise - if you are coming of the PPI - do taper it very very VERY slowly - I was in a rush and think I caused more damage that way. (I have loads of PPIs left over, it is so tempting to go back on them 'just to see me right', but then I'd be back to square one).
I read about an Iranian doctor in prison who treated the ulcers of other prisoners, in the absence of drugs, with just lots of plain water! Unfortunately there're no research papers to back this up, but then again, who's going to fund them where there's no money to be made back? Dammit, it's water, it's worth a try!
A teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda in water is a great neutraliser too (just watch if you're on a low sodium diet). And Gaviscon double action. Anything but PPIs while we're getting our TMS heads around this. I keep telling myself that we managed before PPIs were developed and marketed.
PS I did try the apple cider vinegar that everyone suggests. Total agony. Maybe okay if you're not already getting gastritis... |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 08:24:18
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Originally posted by Busted
Lisa,
I totally understand why you want to wait until you're comfortable with taking on the challenge of quitting PPIs. Just remember that today is always a new day and not to beat yourself up about being on them which will only make other things worse.
Jeff
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 08:30:07
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sickagain,
I've had a similar effect with my neck and shoulder problem and my GERD. In my case, the neck and shoulder tries to return when the GERD is under control(currently with drugs).
I've tried aloe vera juice to no avail. When this rebound acidity happens, there is very little that will appease it and this is not what I decided BEFORE it happened. This is from experience.
I'm going to go to a doctor that has trained with Dr. Andrew Weil as soon as I can get in there before I make any major decisions about the GERD. I'm certainly not going to depend on my current(conventionally trained)GI doc who has already told me there is no way I'll ever get off PPIs.
Who was it that said "He don't know me very well, do he"? Tweety bird?
Jeff
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 08:45:40
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Joy_I_Am,
Thank you for your thoughts about my father.
Have you considered taking one omeprazole to see if it really helps? I know this sounds counter-intuitive but I'd be interested to know if you could get to some stasis by taking it only once every other or every third day. That way, you may be able to establish a much lower threshold of the drug that you'll be able to get off of much easier. If you got no relief from one dose, I would stop at that and try something else.
Are you saying that neither the ranitidine or the natural stuff together does anything for this?
I've read the reason so few people can get off them is because they can't endure the months it takes sometimes to do it. I totally believe this. Still, on GI doc told me as many as 40% CAN get off them.
I haven't had a lot of success with DGL but I do believe it is a good digestive system protectant even if it doesn't stop the heartburn. Like you, I'm doing what I'm doing right now(prilosec OTC morning and night)to avoid damage while I'm putting together my next plan of attack.
I would highly suggest journaling. I started making one when everything went south and it was of incredible help nailing down what was going wrong and what I was on when it happened.
I think after the funeral my plan will be to work with my new Integrated Health(MD with Dr. Weil's training)to taper off the medication while finding a way to get the LES to work right again. Something else the GI doc said could not be done.
And you thought your post was too long? LOL!
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
Edited by - gronesy on 04/22/2012 08:47:48 |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 08:55:01
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Joy_I_Am
When do you take the gaviscon and have you had any side-effects from that? constipation, diarrhea, bloating?
I tried the apple cider vinegar too. Same result. Then, I read it should be diluted like two teaspoonfuls in a glass of water. Haven't tried that though.
Jeff
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
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Joy_I_Am
United Kingdom
138 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 09:54:12
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Hey Gronesy,
I don't know if I'd be worse without the ranitidine, but it's far from a complete treatment, if it is a treatment. But I just can't face taking prilosec again - the very thought scares me, it was so painful the first time around! My life situation isn't going to change soon, it will take at least a year to move away from our noisy neighbours (made worse because I work from home, and tend to isolate), and I need to learn to cope in the meantime. It's a bit worse at the moment as my husband's away on a work trip. I'm trying to be aware of this and breathe through it.
I do suspect a big TMS factor, because I was doing pretty well lately, then I saw the doctor who referred me for the endoscope, and it flared right back up within an hour of seeing him!
The worst thing is that it isn't just a 'sore tummy', it makes you feel sick and tired and anxious and sluggish. I only take the Gaviscon before bed, by the way, and don't notice any particular side effects, apart from the usual IBS of anxiety generally.
I repeat, this wasn't a problem until I took the PPI. The doctor seemed to think it would be 'worth a go' and I didn't know any better. I guess this is what they mean by 'iatrogenic illness'... On the bright side, if I didn't know about Sarno, I'd just be accepting all this instead of challenging it and trying to inform myself.
Jaya, I'd love to hear more details of your experience with this, please! |
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Joy_I_Am
United Kingdom
138 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 09:59:10
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| Also, I did take the vinegar in water. Agony anyway... |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 12:53:17
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Joy_I_Am,
I completely understand your reluctance to touch PPIs again. My particular problem was exacerbated by having too many chemicals in my body and I thought if you could have any success with only one at least you'd know where to start. You have to do what your soul tells you is right.
I too work at home and know about the isolation that can rear its head from time to time. I do my best to get out for any reason I can and have lunch with a friend or two whenever I can. This helps me a great deal. I also do a free stress relief meditation you can get from Deepak Chopra's podcast. Let me know if you need more particulars.
My principal concern now is that the research that says all this could be due to TOO LITTLE acid may be right. They say that low acid causes bacteria to build up in the GI tract. Since I've doubled up on prilosec it seems almost everything gives me gas which increases my GERD symptoms. Keep in mind, before this flare up caused by my attempt to get off PPIs, I too had no problem with gas, reflux or any other stomach concerns with just the one omeprazole cap per day. This must be God's way of helping me get off them for good.
We will prevail! Pat yourself on the back every day more you go without PPIs and make sure to tell yourself(Sarno-like)that you've had enough of this and want it to stop now every time you get a chance. I definitely see the TMS link in your symptoms and I'm trying to find them in mine.
Jeff
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
Edited by - gronesy on 04/22/2012 12:54:13 |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2012 : 17:55:08
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I was put on Prevacid about 3 years ago and now on Kapidex, also a PPI. Many years ago before these were on the market, I had reflux and was put on Zantac 75 mg for a month and didn't even wean off slowly, just stopped and I was fine.
Why did I start again? Because I overdid it with Chinese food and gagged in the middle of the night from the acid coming up, woke me up. I should have left well enough alone. This was NOT a reason for the doc to put me on a PPI...everyone gets this, our parents got it, they took Bromo Seltzer.
The only fear is Barrett's esophagus which can lead to esophageal cancer which is pretty rare. If you had an endoscopy, did they tell you that you had a structural defect? I think you said your LES was wider...I don't know if they know what they're talking about because how do they know what to compare it to, what it was before?
My plan is what I am doing now...I am taking 30 mg of Kapidex but break open the capsule, put it in a dish and with my finger, blot up 1/3 of it every morning. I am trying to wean off and then switch to a low dose of Zantac which is a safer category, and wean off that. I shudder to think of the harm this would do if I stayed on this for life. I wish I had never started. |
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gronesy
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 12:44:43
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susan828
That's the reason I was trying to wean off omeprazole using zantac. I was told by another doctor I respect that zantac is much easier to get off of. Your experience bears this out. Unfortunately,zantac is no match for the rebound hyperacidity that comes within two weeks of stopping omeprazole.
I'm not concerned about barretts. I had an upper GI series which showed nothing sinister but that stomach contents were going the other way after ingestion. The GI doc's approximation of the sphincter was for illustrative purposes only. I'm sure without a scope he can't say for sure. But I do give him points for starting out conservative at least. The scope at that point was unnecessary and may still be.
The part of this that has me confused is that for the entire time I took only one omeprazole capsule I never had symptoms like I have now. After every meal I get an increase in coughing and the sensation that the sphincter is not closed. I NEVER experienced any of this before. Doc said omeprazole could have been masking symptoms but I don't believe it because now twice the dose doesn't mask it.
I would be very careful opening any capsule and using like you are. Putting medicine directly into your stomach as opposed to letting it metabolize in your intestines can be tricky and in some cases, deadly. I remember the first time following my hyperacidic explosion I tried to take even a full capsule of omeprazole on a highly acidic but empty stomach. It ate the capsule and dispensed the meds in my stomach and I thought I was going to have to go to the emergency room as I almost doubled over with gas and pain.
Having said all that, I'm sure you've taken the necessary precautions. I just want to make sure nobody has to go through what I already have.
I wish you the best of luck. Please let me know how it goes.
Whether you believe you can or you can't you're correct. |
Edited by - gronesy on 04/23/2012 12:49:20 |
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Intro and GERD Question
