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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
 Posted - 03/16/2012 : 12:30:09
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Dr. Sarno talks about three common traits of people who develop TMS. They are people-pleasing, being compulsive, and being a goodist/perfectionist. I admit to all three. But, I just realized kind of a more specific way to describe two of those traits for myself. The realization was huge for me so I wanted to share it.
My people-pleasing trait is actually more of a people-impressing trait. I worry about people being impressed with me. I do it with everyone, but especially with those that I care the most about what their opinion is. This drives me to not necessarily do things that I want, but instead I do what I think will impress someone else.
My goodist/perfectionist trait is that I want to be the most competent or smartist person. I push myself to learn and know more about things than I probably need to.
Both of these things contribute to my pain levels with TMS. When I want someone to be impressed with me but they aren't, it affects me. When I want to be smart about something but realize others know more than me, it affects me too.
My biggest realization is that when these two traits are combined, it wreaks havoc on me. If I want to impress someone and I'm doing it by showing them how smart I am, it backfires when they are not impressed and in fact think what I'm telling them is stupid. This is my "double whammy".
I've experienced probably a 90% reduction in my pain levels (bad days are now pretty-good days but not great yet). But, I have noticed that once in a while I still get bad days. I'm now realizing those coincided with experiencing a "double whammy".
I'm now going back to the proverbial drawing board and asking myself why I think it is so important to impress people with my competence. I expect that this will further help me on my TMS recovery journey.
I know everyone is different and maybe these specific traits don't apply to others here on this forum. But, I thought they may apply to someone so I'm offering them up.
If anyone can relate, please let me know. Hearing those thoughts from someone else always helps to further the assurance that TMS is real and dealing with it is the answer to my pain. |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 13:19:28
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tmsjptc,
I totaly get it. although I think of it more as the goodist and perfectionist. I am both. Either way you slice it, the awareness leads to the ability to choose! My choice, like yours, was to change. If you want more detail on my journey (I believe in journys, I don't believe in destinations), read this
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/account/matthewnj
Viktor Frankl said "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom"
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 17:33:17
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| Matthew, I read your journey. I'm blown away. I never got to the depths that you did and my recovery (although not done yet) was faster. But, I also pretty much averaged a level 3 on a scale of 10 (I totally understand your comment about how even a 3 wears you down over time). My length of time was almost 16 years. Anyway, thanks for commenting and sharing your story. |
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shari
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2012 : 00:21:45
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quote:
Originally posted by tmsjptc
I'm now going back to the proverbial drawing board and asking myself why I think it is so important to impress people with my competence. I expect that this will further help me on my TMS recovery journey
The need we have to please people or impress them comes from a feeling that is often difficult to recognize in ourselves because it can trigger some very painful emotions. That is why we avoid facing it and may not even be aware it. This feeling is the shame we have experienced as children. Shame is very different from guilt. When we did something bad as children and were told that what we did was bad, what we felt was guilt. Guilt was is an emotion that taught us something. We dealt with our guilt by not repeating what we did or by making amend. Shame is different. When we did something bad and were told that WE were bad, then we felt shame. We were ashamed for WHO we were, and this shame stayed with us because we didn't know how to deal with it. It brought us the fear of being isolated and abandoned. So we grew up hiding this part of us which made us ashamed of ourselves. We believed that people could only accept us if we went out of our way to please them or impress them. So we wore this mask to hide our real selves. It takes a lot of courage to decide to drop this mask and expose our real selves. But when we do, we will realize that people WILL accept us for who we really are. |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2012 : 17:25:49
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| Shari, I am crying right now after reading your post. For some reason it got me emotionally. I don't even know why although I have my suspicions. You are probably right. My reasons for trying to impress people is probably based on not feeling my own self worth and feeling shame. I would not have guessed this before. It must be pretty deep rooted. I will start investigating this with myself and journaling the results. Thank you very much for the post. |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 10:58:33
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tmsjptc,
You are welcome. And crying over shari's post is a good thing. allow it! Not being able to figure it out is ok too. just be "with it". If it comes to you great, if not, that is OK too.
shari,
I never viewed it that way before, but that really fits me to a "T" as well, thanks for your insight!
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 17:54:43
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quote:
Originally posted by tmsjptc
Dr. Sarno talks about three common traits of people who develop TMS. They are people-pleasing, being compulsive, and being a goodist/perfectionist.
Dr. Sarno probably didn't want to offend anyone, that's why he wrote that. IMO, I think most tms/anxiety sufferers are extreme selfish people (and that's including me, so...). We are perfectionist and people pleasing usually for a selfish reason. Tmser's think about themselves all day long. We think about our money, our well being, our look, our love life, our job, our pain, our symptoms .... We are selfish and that's how we get tms/anxiety.
If somehow we can quit thinking about the self completely for a couple weeks, 80% of our symptoms will be gone. |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 18:06:41
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Balto, I'm going to give that some further thought (being extremely selfish) but upfront I'd say I have to disagree with you. I won't deny that there are ulterior motives to some things I say or do, but I don't think I'm extremely selfish. I actually do not think much about my looks, money, love life, etc. I do admit to thinking about how smart (or not smart) I appear to others. But, further than thinking about my own experience, I look to my wife. She is the most unselfish person I know and she has TMS too.
What do others on this forum think about this? Am I missing something? Is it true that everyone is extremely selfish? |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 18:37:10
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quote:
Originally posted by tmsjptc
Is it true that everyone is extremely selfish?
tmsjptc, I didn't say everyone, I said "most". There are always exception. I would say the majority are selfish or self-center. Selfish not in the sense that we don't help people around us. Selfish as in we think and care too much about ourselve. We are too important. |
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shari
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 20:54:52
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| By selfish, maybe you meant self-centered. Most of us who have suffered shame in childhood give the impression of being self-centered because we are focused on this image of ourselves which we want others to see. We live with the constant fear of exposing ourselves. We feel judged by others and often feel flawed. So we focus on our image to hide our flaws. We hide ourselves behind this mask of perfection. The anxiety we experience is the fear of isolation and abandonment which shame brought on us when we were children. And so, we may appear at times self-centered, at times selfless, at times over-ambition or even extravagant, but we are only seeking the unconditional love we didn't receive in childhood. It is only by removing this mask and facing our shame that this cycle of shame can end. |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 16:19:33
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I think many of us are self-centred but we don't know we are self-centred because we are too busy doing our best to be the opposite of that because what really matters to us is to be seen by others as not self-centred.
We want to be admired, respected, liked so we are busy trying to be seen to be kind, generous, good when really we are just ordinary people muddling along selfishly like everyone else.
I think that the effort of constantly projecting this false (nice) self to the world causes anxiety. If we can be and accept our less than perfect selves the anxiety will go. |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 17:31:11
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| Scottydog, that's pretty powerful stuff. Thanks. I think I mistook what Balto was saying and got defensive. I do in fact always want to project this "nice self" to the world but inwardly I don't want to do everything I do. I actually want to do some things for myself and not worry about what anyone thinks. So, thanks for the comment. I needed it. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 18:28:59
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quote:
Originally posted by tmsjptc
Scottydog, that's pretty powerful stuff. Thanks. I think I mistook what Balto was saying and got defensive.
That happened to me a lot. Not a native English speaker, I often failed to express myself clearly or correctly. People sometime got mad at what I post.
Thanks Scottydog. |
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CaliBack
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 20:38:13
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This is a wonderful thread.
Maybe instead of "self centered" there is a certain desire to be seen as perfect in some way. Originally this was for my parents, to be good, do well in school, practical, not make waves, accommodate. Later it became other things. But the core wound here is narcissistic - not being loved for who you are but what you think others need/want to see.
This is an enormous tension to bear I think. Where are we in it? All this effort just to *be*. It implodes neurologically.
Oddly, I see all these old homeless guys around my town and they are not in any kind of pain despite being in their 60s and walking around all day. They are not uptight, don't really give a hoot about what people think, and by god if their bodies don't have a relaxed bearing I would envy.
I hope this makes some sense and adds to the discussion.
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Irish
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 21:20:16
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Reading all these posts make me think of how my sister and I have talked about roles we assumed in our family. I was always considered the “good kid” and she was the "rebel" who caused problems. We both did what we did, and in some ways still do, to get what we needed from our parents (one parent in particular).
Having to be athletic and a good student were ways I got attention. She caused a scene and it worked for her. I bet many of us fall into that category of being something distorted, with our siblings having their own distinct problems. My sister has worked for years to keep from blurting out something to get herself in trouble. I on the other hand now find myself working to express my anger and frustration in honest yet acceptable ways. It definitely isnt easy, at least doesn't come naturally. |
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CaliBack
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 22:07:27
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Irish,
Is your sister a TMS sufferer? Or by getting things off her chest does she discharge the energy?
I have several younger siblings (I was the oldest and meant to be a flagship) and the one who were rebellious and not out to please the parents do not have pain syndromes. They take things in stride, have a certain comfort with themselves. |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 09:26:57
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This thread is helping me more than I ever had hoped for. I re-read my post about disagreeing with Balto about being selfish and then saying my wife is the most unselfish person I know. Suddenly, the answer was right there in front of me.
I want to appear to be the nice guy, the smart guy, the one that everyone likes because I'm such a good guy. I don't want to appear to care about my looks, my job, my well-being, etc. But, that's because I think I appear to be a good guy if I don't act selfish by caring about those things. When Balto pointed out that I'm selfish (or self-centered depending on your choice of words), I got defensive and that's because I felt my "good guy" image was being threatened. Furthermore, is my wife the most unselfish person I know? Well, it certainly appears to be that way on the surface. But, I'm realizing that this is why she has TMS too. She is projecting such an unselfish attitude that inside she is battling with maintaining that image. I cannot tell you how huge it is for me to realize this.
Regarding the Caliback and Irish comments, I would have to say that I was always the good kid with good grades who didn't get in trouble growing up. My mom thought I could do no wrong. My sister was the rebel and still is to this day. She says things and my mom later confides to me, "how could she say that"? I know realize it is because she is simply speaking her mind and not suppressing her feelings. And guess what? I have TMS and she doesn't. |
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Irish
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 21:34:00
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Well CaliBack that is a good question. I thought about a lot today. Short answer is no, she does not have TMS, that I know of. But her situation is not as simple. (She is my only sibling by the way. I’m older.) Here is the long answer…
My sister did discharge a lot of energy, frustration and anger at those she felt did her wrong. She also created a lot of other problems for herself through her words and actions. Those problems made her life complicated and filled with lots of chaos.
This is the condensed version, but here is my take on how she was harmed by our upbringing. I was able to gain the favor of our father through my more agreeable disposition, my school accomplishments or more importantly my ability to play football. My sister struggled to get his attention. She had a difficult temperament was fussy and loud. From early on he did not pay her as much attention. When he did, it was usually criticism. Although she learned this was one way to get his attention, she basically never had good self esteem, and I think the message she took from it was a sense of never being good enough. If he just would have said somthing nice to her now and then, maybe things would have been different.
Although my sister may have never had TMS, she was diagnosed about six years ago with breast cancer. She was 36 at the time, with two young kids and in the midst of a divorce. She had double mastectomy, chemo, the whole nine yards. Right now she is cancer free.
My sister said not long ago that she thinks that what she lived through caused or at least contributed to the cancer. She attributed it more to her dissolving marriage, but I now wonder about all those years of low self-esteem, lots of tension, lots of anxiety and depression and all the negative physiological and chemical changes from her childhood. Doctors thought that it was hereditary cancer due to her young age but that was ruled out. She has been though a lot and her low self-esteem persists to this day, although much less than it once did. She has spent many years in therapy and has made much progress.
I think I recall in threads that some with cancer had used the Sarno TMS approach to effectively treat cancer. If that is the case, did TMS or some other aspect of Mind/Body function contribute to her cancer or even cause it? I guess the long answer is maybe? Maybe some other M/B function yet to be determined caused it.
tmsjptc what you mentioned is so powerful. I think it is at the root of what we all are going thru. Basically you sacrifice yourself to put forward a “good guy” image. It is who you think you are- your identity. But in doing that, you have to be furious. You deny any personal needs or feelings (I assume). And you can’t express the anger either because good guys don't get angry at others. It’s a no win situation. At least it has been for me. The question is why do we do it? I’d guess it was how we learned at a very young age to get our needs met, and it just stuck.
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shari
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 00:50:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Irish
The question is why do we do it? I’d guess it was how we learned at a very young age to get our needs met, and it just stuck.
I think most of us grew up in the same type of family where personal feelings were not acknowledged and parents were the kind of people who always blamed others when things didn't go right. They were always critical or judgmental, even remembering our mistakes years later to remind us that we had disappointed them. And instead of giving us a chance to repair our mistakes, they blamed us and shamed us, and this made us feel like we were different and inferior. We grew up with this fear of being isolated and abandoned, and we learned that to survive and be accepted we had to please others and disown part of ourselves. Other people's needs became more important than our own. Looking back, maybe we can see that our family was just a group of people who felt alone together, each of us experiencing our own version of loneliness. Relationships were not very deep, and projecting an image of perfection or rightfulness was most important. So we too developed an image, and this image was to mask our shame. |
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merilevy
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 14:16:23
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I conceptualize the reason for perfectionism and people-pleasing a little differently, and it has worked for me in overcoming TMS. I believe that each of us has a "child" part of ourselves inside (I know "inner child" sounds really hokey, but it has helped me a lot to see it that way). When we were children, our needs and feelings were not recognized, acknowledged, or nurtured, and we learned to treat the child inside us the same way. We ignore our own feelings and tell ourselves we're not as good/important/worthy as others. Pleasing or taking care of other people is more important than addressing our own feelings.
I don't see this behavior as selfish at all. It is self-centered in the sense that we overestimate the impact we have on others. A mentor once said to me "You wouldn't worry so much what people think of you if you realized how seldom they do." Becoming a more nurturing parent to our inner child is the beginning of healing perfectionism and people-pleasing. It starts with acknowledging our feelings and needs and making conscious choices about how to address them. In some senses, this makes us more selfish because we learn to take better care of ourselves, reducing anger and resentment that lead to pain. But being a healthier person allows you to have more to give to the important people in your life, and to give from an authentic place of generosity rather than a desire to be seen as a giving person.
Meri Levy, MA
Marriage and Family Therapist Intern
Oak Creek Counseling Center
www.merilevy.com |
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Joy_I_Am
United Kingdom
138 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 10:55:32
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I agree with so much of this. I think kids strive to please their parents, unless they are driven to 'act out' because that's the only way to get attention. I was one of the anxious-to-please types, and you don't lose that easily, especially as you mesh comfortably with the 'want to be pleased ' types, and the behaviour gets reinforced as you grown up!
If there's one thing I want to strive for in my experience with TMS, it's my Authentic Self. I think a lot of my TMS has been my brain's attempts to plaster over my Authentic Self with bodily pain, because being authentic and yourself was a punishable crime when I was growing up.
Stopping caring about what my parents thought of me (because their opinion was bogus and self-serving, I now realise) has helped a lot towards not caring what anyone else thinks of me (not in an 'FU way, but just relying on my own perceptions and judgments, trusting myself).
A work in progress, as always, but so much clearer since discovering The Mighty Sarno!  |
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My version of people pleasing and goodist
