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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2012 : 20:14:20
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Just to clarify, SteveO left the TMS Help Forum of his own accord because he did not want to create divisiveness and bickering at a place that should be for healing. I feel it's an unfortunate misunderstanding about hyperlinks and Dave the Forum's gracious host's desire to keep things here commercial free. I hope SteveO returns as we seldom have TMS experts here and SteveO has first-hand information from TMS notables such as Dr. Sarno and Dr. Marc Sopher. I have just received his book "THE GREAT PAIN DECEPTION: Faulty Medical Advice Is Making Us Worse" and if you can judge a TMS book by it's cover it looks quite informative and entertaining.
SteveO is just beginning a national media campaign and will be appearing on TV interview shows. He had generously given of his time to personally help sufferers here. Hopefully if he gets bored on his book tour late at night he will return here to bestow his TMS knowledge penicillin here again.
Good luck SteveO spreading the TMS word,
tt |
Edited by - tennis tom on 03/03/2012 20:15:35 |
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lynnl
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 22:48:08
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I agree Tom. I haven't gotten his book yet, but his postings here always seemed pretty much right on target. I'd certainly like to see him make additional appearances here from time to time.
it's easy to see how the message from someone who's written a book is likely to carry more weight with the general public. I guess you could call it the authority of authorship. ...or something like that. :)
Lynn |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 08:51:01
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Just to clarify, SteveO left the TMS Help Forum of his own accord because he did not want to create divisiveness and bickering at a place that should be for healing. I feel it's an unfortunate misunderstanding about hyperlinks and Dave the Forum's gracious host's desire to keep things here commercial free. I hope SteveO returns as we seldom have TMS experts here and SteveO has first-hand information from TMS notables such as Dr. Sarno and Dr. Marc Sopher. I have just received his book "THE GREAT PAIN DECEPTION: Faulty Medical Advice Is Making Us Worse" and if you can judge a TMS book by it's cover it looks quite informative and entertaining.
SteveO is just beginning a national media campaign and will be appearing on TV interview shows. He had generously given of his time to personally help sufferers here. Hopefully if he gets bored on his book tour late at night he will return here to bestow his TMS knowledge penicillin here again.
Good luck SteveO spreading the TMS word,
tt
Too bad he decides to leave. To the fews that thought he was only here to promote his book, his leaving may act as to confirmed their that their thought is right. I hope he come back and share his knowledge so people don't think: if there is no profit, there is no sharing. |
Edited by - balto on 03/04/2012 09:46:02 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 10:00:01
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Couldn't agree with Balto more, as usual. He was simply asked not to hijack every thread with book links and I guess he figured his reason for being here had gone away.
Most people here are suffering, which makes for a very delicate balance of question/answer. Offering to help suffering people but doing so with a repeated advertisement is at very least questionable behavior for a support forum.
That said, as Balto mentioned... he very easily could have created one thread for his book and continued to post on the rest following the guidelines we all do here. Instead he left, and IMO that tells all one needs to know. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 10:08:54
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Would also remind that this guy was not a doctor, had no medical training, didn't use his last name and was apparently a businessman with a record company. Also claimes to be a personal trainer despite apparently having a pain syndrome for 30 years. Interesting dichotomy.
Again, people in pain can be very impressionable. I personally appreciate the moderators for simply asking us all to behave with a conscience here. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 16:39:28
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Bryan, as far as I know you are the only person here who objected to his being here. I don't see where any of your points prevents him from speaking knowledgeably on TMS. There are only a small handful of doctor's on the planet who believe in TMS so NOT being a doctor seems a good qualification--it's the doctor's who dispense the nocebos and mis-diagnoses. I don't use my last name, you don't use your last name so what's the problem there. Fred Amir has written one of the most popular TMS books and he is not a doctor, as well as other's who have written books on their personal battle and victory over TMS. What's wrong with being a business man with a record company, I'm also a business man, how does that disqualify me from discussing TMS?
What did SteveO say about TMS that you found to be incorrect? You could say I hijack every thread because I have such a high post count, maybe some day I'll write a TMS book, will that disqualify me from posting here? Truthfully, it gets boring saying the same thing over and over and over again. SteveO is not going to get rich by selling a handful of books to the small population of TMS'ers here. As far as "moderators" here I don't know of any accept for Dave who for the most part keeps a hands-off policy. For the life of me, I don't see what you objected to except he may have rubbed you the wrong way. Monte Huftle posts here, has written TMS books, is a coach, and has a link to his site, where he has "customers"--what's the difference? |
Edited by - tennis tom on 03/04/2012 16:46:39 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 17:56:46
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Tom,
I love your posts and respect your opinions, but I wasn't the only one who thought it was over the top. The OWNER of the forum apparently thought so.
As for his qualifications, you're correct.. he was no less, or no more competent to give medical advice than any of us here. He wasn't a psychologist, had no medical training nor did he apparently have any medical background. He was a self-proclaimed record label owner who seemed to jump around in his endeavors. That's fine. I never claimed he didn't have a right to give out advice. What I did say... is that it became tiresome to have every thread hijacked into a "buy my products" sermon.
Beyond that, Tom... you're older and wiser than me. If this forum starts allowing every Dick and Jane with a product to push to relentlessly pound on suffering people to buy their product, how useful do you expect this place to be? The next guy pushing his financial agenda will be right behind him, along with a line of others.
As for what he said, he just had opinions. He's done no clinical work, i.e. Sarno, Schubiner or other actual medical professionals.
I'm not sure why I'd need to repeat this again... but his opinion is no more or less valid than anyone's here, and I would never be one to object to someone having an opinion.
Re: my post count - Tom, are you really comparing interacting with others as a forum member with a product-pusher spamming threads? You see no difference there, Tom? You have a high post-count yourself, sir. Not sure what that has to do with anything. Maybe let's compare apples to apples, shall we?
As for Monte Huftle, I haven't noticed him taking over the forum the way this steve "O" person was. If he has and it bothers you, take it up with the moderators. I simply made my case as a very grateful and appreciative member of this forum that I did not want this place to turn into a "buy my stuff" spam-fest.
I also suggested the very simple and logical notion that Steve and others with products to sell (including physicians) might have their own section in which to post... so when we WANT to be made aware of places to spend our money, we could easily do so. Why is that so hard to grasp? Why wouldn't that be a win-win for everyone.
If it gets "boring" here to you, then perhaps look for other avenues. I'd assume you can send your money to Steve and he'll continue a relationship with you. Personally, I'm amazed on a daily basis by the insight and depth of posters like Balto, Darko, Hillbilly, Wavy and a host of others. Again, I'm extremely grateful for this forum and the pure support-group nature.
You think one way about it, I think another, Tom. You made your case... I made mine. Steve has apparently decided that without a paying audience, we're not worth saving here. So, this all seems like a moot point to me. If he truly cared about spreading his opinions... he'd simply create a thread to sell his book, and then talk to people like human beings, not a salesman. But, he chose to split.
Again, that tells you all you need to know.
Appreciate your opinion. Think you're wrong, and have a great rest of the weekend! :)
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taxman
Canada
20 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 19:59:48
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I'm a newcomer here and have posted only a few times. I don't know anyone and all the advice/comments I have read here have been helpful. Personally, I don't care that Steve was promoting his book because it seems like a pretty interesting read and secondly, he was very insightful with his information to me personally. I don't know much about TMS but I really liked his advice on my vestibular neuritis and honestly, I wish he would come back at some point.
Tom, you have also been amazing with your advice and I'd like to thank you as well! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 22:43:21
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| Bryan, you write persuasively and I totally disagree with you. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 23:15:01
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| Fair enough Tom. Just worry about your backhand and forget about me. :) |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 01:17:27
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At the risk of being the messenger that gets shot, I remember reading one of Steve's posts where he stated that he would not be around for much longer because he was going to be busy promoting his book on the radio, etc. He would, however, pop back in now and again when he had the time. Although his leaving was planned perhaps it may have been hastened. Steve used to be part of a Yahoo group of TMSers. I read some positive comments about how he helped people there. That was what I felt he was attempting to do here, amidst the book promoting. I never saw him as someone taking advantage of anyone who felt vulnerable or in pain.
That's my two pence, anyway. |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 01:40:14
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Mmmmmmmmm. Maybe Dave could read his book & put it on the Tms resources link along with other books . Then steveO could post on the forum without any fuss ? That would be ok I guess.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 08:15:23
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Hi Steve,
I was about to let go of this, but your comment in jest about my backhand triggered a thought about why I'm defending SteveO's presence here. It was because he gave me hope for my hip being TMS and not structural. He came in on a thread regarding hips, which I've been given nocebos by two TMS doctor's that mine was due to arthritis and to get a total hip replacement sooner than later. SteveO, through his knowledge of TMS, and relationships with Dr. Sarno who recommends his book and Dr. Marc Sopher who wrote the forward to his book, confirmed that even TMS doctors don't always get it right. This "placebo" by SteveO, on a thread here renewed my belief, that I should hang in there and keep my hip, until I'm completely on board with which way to go with it. This ray of hope translated into a positive week of practice for me. A few weeks before reading SteveO's post I was in a very glum mood researching new arthroscopic techniques, surgeons who do them and where, although I've been told it's too late for my hip for current arthroscopic techniques to be effective.
My backhand is pretty good, my FH could use a brush-up, as in some more topspin to keep it in. You leave one srtoke alone for a while and it starts acting up. My issue is being one step slow for national competition. I do just fine hitting in rec play but that environment creates TMS stress. Coincidentally, I read an article a few days ago in TENNIS magazine about the psychology of the sport and Dr. Allen Fox is quoted in it. He's a sports psychologist and written four books, as well as a former top 10 and Wimbledon quarter finalist. He said, "...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Having to play with club/rec players versus the environment at tournaments, explained a lot to me about a major source of my pain in the ass. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 12:46:54
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Tom,
I was 4 years varsity captain and then played some low-level competitive tennis post high-school. (Tournaments.) I was an absolute mess on the court. Big temper, too much ego, and my psychology was totally screwed up. I quit for a while, then took up the game again with a different attitude. Enjoyed it much more. Still a little hard on myself at times, but I know the deal now... I'm not going to be a top-level player, though I can be pretty effective on the court and my strokes are good. I'm probably a better teacher than a player.
So, I do agree that tennis can be an overwhelming sport, psychologically. Problem is... there's only one person to blame when things go wrong. You've got to have an extremely SHORT memory. Oddly, I think recovery from TMS involves the same thing. Having the ability to forget "failures" and instead view them as learning experiences has been one of my shortcomings. I'm getting better, but I still need to work hard on letting go when I have a setback, and not paying it any credence.
I hope your hip improves. I don't know if it's TMS but I know you'll get to the bottom of it. You've had plenty of experience and will make the right call.
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catmac
United Kingdom
57 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 13:33:20
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Hi, I too am also new to this forum. I have been following it just for a few weeks as I only recently discovered Dr Sarno and am in the process of reading his books. I live in Scotland and there are no tms therapists here.
I am gutted that Steve O is no longer on this forum. Surely it is better to have someone with his knowledge on here than try to muddle through understanding the process on our own. Who cares if he was promoting his book but I personally dont think he was. (in fact it was free therapy!!) I wish I had his e mail address and I would get in touch with him directly.
Tennis Tom, I also read a lot of your answers which are really helpful.
I'm also a wee bit disappointed that this forum has taken a bit of a negative and suspicious turn. When I first discovered this forum I was so excited as it was so positive and upbeat and seemed full of people wanting to help each other.
ps. have all Steves posts been removed from the website. If so can we have them back?? I really need them!
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TaylorJoh
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 14:39:55
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Hi Tom,
I can't comment on the SteveO situation as I didn't see what happened. But I think it's great that SteveO spiked your confidence in that your hip problem is TMS and not structural. Just the fact that this week was better for you might be a really good indication it is TMS.
I've heard some good reviews about the book. Let me know what you think of it. I've ordered a few books on TMS, but a fresh perspective is always nice.
Taylor |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 16:20:24
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Well, Steve clearly has a little fan-base here. Wonder why he wouldn't stick around?
Guess he had to make a business decision.
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 16:46:01
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quote:
Originally posted by catmac
...I wish I had his e mail address and I would get in touch with him directly.
...I'm also a wee bit disappointed that this forum has taken a bit of a negative and suspicious turn. When I first discovered this forum I was so excited as it was so positive and upbeat and seemed full of people wanting to help each other.
Hi Catmac,
Thanks for the kind words, to get in touch with SteveO, if you google Steven Ray Ozanich you should be able to find contact and email info for him. In regards to "negativity", I wouldn't worry about it too much, compared to most other forums I've seen this is quite tame--probably too tame--but given the mindbody state of TMS'ers, too much action would probably not be a good thing for them. At one time I suggested a sub-forum here where people could enter at their own risk, say what-ever they wanted to and let it all hang out, sort of a Reichian padded cell to bang mattresses with baseball bats, but nothing came of it. I feel it could provide some much needed catharsis and release of TMS tension build up. I used to be much more direct but it didn't go over too well and I've learned to restrict my stuff to quoting the Good Doctor or referring people to TMS practitioners.
Cheers, and I like your lad Andy Murray he's quite entertaining to watch on the telly playing tennis. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 19:57:14
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I haven't been on here much lately, so I don't think I've seen any of Steve's posts. But I'm in the middle of his book, which I bought on a whim. Beforehand I had thought as Bryan does, eg, who is this guy and what makes his opinion any better than mine? But I have to admit, he hooked me, especially in chapter 3 where he details his amazing and very painful tms story. I found myself incredulous at times that anyone could have such incredible and lasting pain from not only back pain, but various other body parts as well. But, all I had to do was look at myself to see a similar diversity of symptoms, except that mine are trivial compared to his.
Believe me, I'm a natural skeptic and I found myself judging his motives, truthfulness--even his grammar and writing quality at times. In the end (except I'm only half done with the book), I found myself relaxing my distrust of him for the following reasons: Motive. Why would anybody bother to research, write, and publish a long book that might not even break even? And why would Sarno, Sopher, and Northrup lend their names to the project? Most importantly, Ozanich won me over with his story. He truly seems to embody the tms personality; very compulsive, stubborn, perfectionist and goodist. Amazingly so! In the end those tms qualities (the stubborness mainly), may have given him the resiliance to win the war against tms.
Just my opinion as a skeptic who took a gamble on reading the book. I can even understand if Ozanich got a little carried away promoting his book on this site. Live and learn. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 21:03:58
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I havent read SteveO's book yet either. I really didnt have a strong opinion either way if he was posting with biased motives or not. He did seem to be genuinely interested in helping people in addition to promoting his book. I agree he gets a lot of credit for telling his story and trying to get the public to learn about TMS.
wrldtrv said: And why would Sarno, Sopher, and Northrup lend their names to the project?
So long as the book supports the basic fundamentals of TMS, they need to support the mindbody connection to keep the program going. All of these forward-thinking TMS doctors / writers face a huge amount of push back from the industrial-medical complex, like trying to push a tractor trailer up hill. It cant be easy, and its important that they stick together. I was reading on the tmswiki that there have been a couple TMS conferences for practitioners, and a newly minted non-profit association. I hope it will all help so that the program doesnt get "lost" for 100 or so years before it gets mainstream traction. Wouldnt it be better for everyone if their doctor took the time to listen and get to know whats going on inside their patients, and be able to deliver a correct diagnosis?
Just my 2 cents, -Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 03/05/2012 21:08:26 |
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catmac
United Kingdom
57 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 09:50:02
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
quote:
Originally posted by catmac
...I wish I had his e mail address and I would get in touch with him directly.
...I'm also a wee bit disappointed that this forum has taken a bit of a negative and suspicious turn. When I first discovered this forum I was so excited as it was so positive and upbeat and seemed full of people wanting to help each other.
Hi Catmac,
Thanks for the kind words, to get in touch with SteveO, if you google Steven Ray Ozanich you should be able to find contact and email info for him. In regards to "negativity", I wouldn't worry about it too much, compared to most other forums I've seen this is quite tame--probably too tame--but given the mindbody state of TMS'ers, too much action would probably not be a good thing for them. At one time I suggested a sub-forum here where people could enter at their own risk, say what-ever they wanted to and let it all hang out, sort of a Reichian padded cell to bang mattresses with baseball bats, but nothing came of it. I feel it could provide some much needed catharsis and release of TMS tension build up. I used to be much more direct but it didn't go over too well and I've learned to restrict my stuff to quoting the Good Doctor or referring people to TMS practitioners.
Cheers, and I like your lad Andy Murray he's quite entertaining to watch on the telly playing tennis.
Thanks for your reply TT, I enjoy this forum, brilliant answers and personalities a plenty. Andy Murray.........yeah, I like him too although he could do with being a bit cheerier!! Nadal is my favourite tho. |
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Re: TMS Author Steven Ray Ozanich's Leaving
