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mala

Hong Kong
774 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2012 :  03:06:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And this is what I believe. I know that sarno in HBP says that we don't but we do. I'm not talking about big personality changes - small subtle changes are all that is required. We are in pain because of who we are and how we think & if we do not consciously change our thought patterns & the way we react to the pain then we are doomed to stay in pain for the rest of our lives. In fact i bet anyone who has had any success in getting rid of their pain is a slightly different person to who they were when they were in pain.

The acquisition of knowledge is fundamental in the battle against tms but more importantly is the application of that knowledge. How we apply that knowledge is different for different people ( some may journal, some may use techniques in order to think psychologically, others may find that ignoring the pain is enough, yet others may find success in resuming physical activity) but it is that application that is the key to success. You can read and understand all you want but if you do not bring about a pattern interrupt or pattern change then the acquisition of knowledge in itself is not enough to. When you bring about a pattern interrupt or pattern change you have changed. Keep at it long enough & you will see changes in the pain as well as in yourself.




Good Luck & Good Health
Mala

Baseball65

USA
734 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2012 :  07:38:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Amen...
Learning all that deep dark stuff tends to turn you inside out.
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2012 :  08:07:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mala

And this is what I believe. I know that sarno in HBP says that we don't but we do. I'm not talking about big personality changes - small subtle changes are all that is required. We are in pain because of who we are and how we think & if we do not consciously change our thought patterns & the way we react to the pain then we are doomed to stay in pain for the rest of our lives. In fact i bet anyone who has had any success in getting rid of their pain is a slightly different person to who they were when they were in pain.


snipp....
but it is that application that is the key to success. You can read and understand all you want but if you do not bring about a pattern interrupt or pattern change then the acquisition of knowledge in itself is not enough

Good Luck & Good Health
Mala



Yup Yup… I like especially what you said here

and we are creatures of habit we usually don’t want to change
sometimes breaking a bad habit , letting go , make changes and move on are the hardest things to do…

Good Post Mala

Kenny V


Always Hope For Recovery
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tmsjptc

USA
124 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2012 :  12:33:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mala, I'm definitely a different person. I was searching simply for pain relief when I came across Sarno's books. But, I gained much more than I ever imagined - and didn't even know I needed or was possible to get. The process of learning what makes you tick has been amazing. Besides pain relief, I've become a better husband, father, son, supervisor, coach, friend, and employee. And it is because I understand better what is going on inside myself as well as what it appears is going on with others.
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Darko

Australia
387 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2012 :  15:09:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I 100% agree and have said this several times. If one thinks they can become free from TMS symptoms by not taking action to change they are delusional. You have the results you have right now based on the actions/thoughts/perspectives you took in the past.....if you don't like those results, and I'm guessing most of us don't, then you must change what you do today so at to get a different result for tomorrow. To think you can do the same thing and get a different result is insanity.

Well said Mala!

D


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mala

Hong Kong
774 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2012 :  20:00:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Change is good. As baseball says it really makes you step back and take a long hard look at who you are & how you are living your life. But like Kenny says its not easy. There is a lot of resistance from inside and that is why it's important to be persistent. Its a skill and like any skill you want to acquire you have to keep at it. You don,t expect to be a good tennis player by taking 2 or 3 lessons. You have to put in much more. It's hard but not impossible. It may be a slower process for some than for others but as tmsjptc said the benefits go way beyond just getting rid of the pain.

Darko you are absolutely correct. I sometimes come across posts that have been written by people who have been here for years and I sense no change in them. There is nothing new and they are still suffering. I feel sad . It's like they have this knowledge, they know the theory but they are not willing to make changes. They are still so stuck in a world of fear & anxiety.

Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
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tennis tom

USA
4749 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2012 :  21:09:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mala

... I sometimes come across posts that have been written by people who have been here for years and I sense no change in them. There is nothing new and they are still suffering. I feel sad . It's like they have this knowledge, they know the theory but they are not willing to make changes. They are still so stuck in a world of fear & anxiety.



Mala, it's good of you to check in with your success story. Maybe you can help some of those people you mentioned who have been around for years. So what's new with your life that has caused your transformational TMS change? You sound so much improved from the last time you were here. How did you do it in practical day to day changes?

==================================================

DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g

TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale

Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605

==================================================

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti

"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown

"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst

"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================

TMS PRACTITIONERS:

John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035


Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm

Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist

Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html

Edited by - tennis tom on 03/01/2012 21:11:46
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mala

Hong Kong
774 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  00:37:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TT good to hear from you. Success story, well I'm not sure I have even thought of it that way but it sounds good. I guess I'm still discovering, it's still a journey and probably will remain a lifelong one.

I think what started the process was doing the structured program on the website. Although prior to that I had read many books on tms I had never journalled . I did all the other stuff like think psychological , ignore the pain etc but putting pen to paper was always difficult. The program requires you to write a lot . In the beginning I didn't,t know what to do , I felt I had nothing to express but once I got going i began to understand better what was happening and it gave lots to think about. The great thing about the program is it is very structured & there is feedback available if you feel stuck. I am very grateful to everyone out there who has made this program available & to those who are still working on it.

Then I started watching a few videos by joe dispenza. One in particular had a deep impact. It's about how people dealt with illness. The gist is that those who were successful in overcoming their sickeness were people who wre willing to change .they had to become someone different. That somehow resonated with me. If I can,t change my past, my childhood, the people around me, the situations and circumstances well at least I can change myself and the way I deal with things . I can change the way I think. I really have to work at it though. It requires practice.

I would also make myself comfortable when the pain got bad. I can,t take too many painkillers so I use topical creams or patches. Im also trying to meditate & do deep breathing. Its not always easy to focus but it really helps when you get it right. Again it's one of those things that require practice.

I saw a program on bbc recently about how different people deal with pain. In poorer countries or remote places wher there are few doctors people deal with pain in a very matter of fact way. It's not that they feel it less they just have better ways of coping. They believe they will get better becoz there is no one telling them they won't. They have to get better and surprisingly they do.

Anyway I'm still a work in progress.



Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
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tennis tom

USA
4749 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  08:53:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mala

... Success story, well I'm not sure I have even thought of it that way but it sounds good. I guess I'm still discovering, it's still a journey and probably will remain a lifelong one.




WOW, Mala, one of the best posts here ever! Sounds like a great outline for TMS healing for the newbees. Yes, it's a lifelong journey, if one accepts the Good Doctor's premise that it's part of the HUMAN CONDITION. A protector when we need it and a guide on the journey that we can get better at the more we practice.

Best Wishes,
tt
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mala

Hong Kong
774 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  19:45:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thx Tom. What would be very useful is if people who have had little successes along their journeys post here what they did, I mean little , simple techniques that worked for them. Then others could try using them, use them practically. Very often the theory is clear but people 'go ok I'm having a rough day , or i'm really anxious or hurting or fearful ,what can i do to bring about some immediate relief.' If they can do something to help themselves this gives them hope & encouragement to stay the path. It's good positive reinforcement.

Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
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Wavy Soul

USA
779 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2012 :  23:43:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One of the things I have had to change is that I have had to really feel a bunch of stuff, instead of pretending (to myself or others) that the reason I'm unhappy, anxious, etc. is because of my physical problems. Now I have to admit that I'm unhappy because I'm unhappy, etc.

This may not sound like much, but it's huge.

Love is the answer, whatever the question
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Wavy Soul

USA
779 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  00:19:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Doing vigorous exercise every single day no matter what has been absolutely HUGE, too. It's better to get some pain protection (patches), and take caffeine and JUST DO IT even when I'm feeling pain and exhaustion. Over time this has begun to convince my brain that I'm not really sick. Whereas when I used to "take it easy," the story of sickness just escalated by the end of the day.

This has been a big identity change - going from an identity of Miss Fading Violet to being a Gym Rat. People can hardly believe it, and it is definitely from embracing this TMS approach.

And I am SO buff at 60 years old that people assume I'm exceptionally hale and healthy, which creates good brain feedback.

Love is the answer, whatever the question
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bryan3000

USA
513 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  10:13:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great thread! Love this place.

I think it was posted here recently but Dr Joe Dispenza has great lectures on YouTube and he speaks about spontaneous healing from major disease and how it always involved reinventing ones self. Look up his chats. Really interesting.

I agree. Even on a minor TMS pain level, one must make real thought pattern changes.
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bryan3000

USA
513 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2012 :  10:17:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Holy cow, just read Mala's second post and missed the Dispenza reference. Pretty funny coincidence, but not surprising. I believe it's the right philosophy.
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cnotes11

USA
49 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  01:19:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting thoughts all around. I agree with what Mala and many of the rest of you had/have to say. In some ways, as horrible as being chronically in pain is, I appreciate what its taught me and some of the changes its forced upon me.

That being said, I am still struggling to reconcile one aspect of this in my mind. Is changing your conscious thought pattern, i.e. "who" you are enough? I mean this in a rhetorical way, clearly no one can tell me...but maybe for you Mala it is? Many others seem to agree, "its a process", etc.

My concern comes from reading I've done on emotional imprinting in the subconscious -- causing physical symptoms -- and conscious thought not being enough to address the issues. I am looking for something curative and while I would never dispute anything anyone has said on thread as being helpful I wonder if its enough.

Darko said: " You have the results you have right now based on the actions/thoughts/perspectives you took in the past." And I agree, but is consciously approaching life in a different manner today going to make symptoms simmer down over time or might it only change things to a degree?

Maybe part of this is being 25 and not wanting to accept this as some type of lifelong project where I simply get better at coping as my only defense..... Where the pain is only tempered by my positive thought patterns and learned acceptance.

I dont know but I will say I am grateful for this forum.
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Darko

Australia
387 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  04:27:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Darko said: " You have the results you have right now based on the actions/thoughts/perspectives you took in the past." And I agree, but is consciously approaching life in a different manner today going to make symptoms simmer down over time or might it only change things to a degree?


Cnotes,
This depends entirely on you........living with TMS is an ART not an exact science, and ultimately your success depends on the relationship you develop with yourself ( emotional/inner child )! However I dare you to take the "Pepsi challenge" and try it on for the next few months, and find out for yourself. Take on mine and the others suggestions and see what results YOU get.

Changing the way you live today is just as important as looking at the stories and emotions you created about past events. They go hand in hand if you would like great results, sit and ponder your past events and how you might have felt, also who you are currently being and all the negative emotions generated.

Create a life you choose that serves you better and cease being a victim of the BS producing drama machine.......the thing between our ears

D
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Hillbilly

USA
385 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  07:38:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
cnotes,

I volunteer with people in my community who are dealing with stress problems. That's all this is. Don't make it into some sort of lifelong mountain you have to climb. You don't accept your symptoms and you think you have to do something to defeat them, so therefore you are in a constant state of self-rejection. Think that over. You don't like you, at least a large part of you. Illogical, yes? Damaging, yes? And the chemical reaction to such thought is adrenal secretions that prepare you to fight...something or flee....something.

If you aren't an abnormal psych case, you have really only one thing to do, and that is to engage yourself in activities that you know from past experience bring on the worst of your pain. This is called exposure therapy, either interoceptive or in vivo, and it is incredibly effective. You don't need a therapist for it. You can take a trusted friend with you who understands what you are dealing with. You have to be able to distinguish how you feel physically under duress vs. how you feel on a Sunday afternoon at the park or in front of the television to make the obvious connection between your thoughts and resultant emotions and your pain or whatever other symptom of stress that you are dealing with.

Once this is firmly imprinted on your mind, and you are convinced that stress does indeed change you physiologically, you just have to trust that the statement that so many have made to you since your journey began, and that is that the pain is nothing at all. It doesn't keep you from being able to do anything you choose to do. It sucks, it hurts, you don't like it, but you can just forget about it and go on. You can't drive it out. You can only drive out the fear with logic. Until you believe it is nothing, it will occupy your mind as some sort of monstrous problem that you have to focus on and work your life around. That simply isn't true if your problem is stress.

I am often amused and a little saddened by all the advice given here by people who have not solved this problem. What value is there in hearing what someone else is doing while they are suffering equally or worse than you? Make a plan for your life that doesn't involve accommodations for pain. Then go for it. That is the cure. Self-discipline and action. You will see the results in a short while. I am sorry you came to this with the idea that you have to fix something in your subconscious or unconscious. This is unfortunate and not at all necessary. It is nothing but marketing.

I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.

Ralph Waldo Emerson
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cnotes11

USA
49 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2012 :  21:50:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You may be right....

At this point I'm trying to remain as open to possible solutions as I can while maintaining a small critical edge. However at the moment I disagree with the statement that everything relating to subconscious it marketing. But as you pointed out how much room do people who have not found a solution to their problems have to talk? Sure we are entitled to our opinions, but maybe I am in left field and just dont see it yet.

Also when I think about it more it really doesnt matter. If I do what you advise + pursue things on a subconscious level the intended goal is the same. I don't think these would counteract each other. Maybe some wasted effort if one is right and one is wrong. Or maybe they would compliment each other.

I certainly plan to take some of the advice given here, and work with the new ideas presented. At the end of the day speculation and thinking only take you so far.
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Hillbilly

USA
385 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2012 :  08:24:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
cnotes,

I understand and appreciate your quandary. It is part of the process, unfortunately. I was a desperate soul once in search of a solution that fit my view of things. I had to be rocked to the core to change my mind, and in some ways this is echoed in the language I use when I post. I hope you can reach a point of resolution at which you can pursue a path to recovery on your own time and in your own way.

What I'd like to add to my earlier comment is that subconscious elements are no doubt involved in the perpetuation of symptoms, but that is because your conscious outlook has not changed. You don't see the light entering the cave, so your body is responding in a contracted and low-energy survival mode while you puzzle your way through. I would suggest you read and learn about the amygdala, emotional response centers, and the hormonal and neurotransmission links via the brain and the subconscious functions in the autonomic nervous system. This is what I mean by subconscious functions. They are reflective of what is current, not what happened 30 years ago.

There is little doubt that we avoid pain that we have encountered in the past, be it physical or emotional. In fact, I see little distinction. Both make us feel, physically, like crap. But if we are to change our future, we have to embrace the past hurts and mistakes as nothing more than learning experiences, and not steel bars that cage us in to repeating our mistakes. This could get into free will and philosophy, which is a place we shouldn't probably go here, but if you are so inclined, have at it.

I suppose my bottom line is that I somehow found the will to make today different from yesterday. I have choices, as do we all. We can choose to listen to whomever we wish, to the conditioned voice inside our head that says we better not, shouldn't, can't or whatever. We can also choose to listen to people who inspire us to try a new way, a more proven way, and learn that indeed we can. It is indeed up to us. That is both terrifying and empowering at the same time.

I wish you and all here the very best in your search for truth and meaning.

I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Edited by - Hillbilly on 03/06/2012 08:30:34
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bryan3000

USA
513 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2012 :  08:40:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hillbilly,

Awesome as usual. Thanks.

Is there a post from the past where you sum up your anxiety battle and how you beat it with a little detail? I know some of the tools you used. I use some of the same. But, your recovery is inspiring. (Recovery stories is where I find inspiration.)
Any chance of telling us a bit more? I haven't been around long enough to know the details. Thanks again for the contributions.
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balto

839 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2012 :  09:23:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm guessing that fighting tms/anxiety is just like going on a diet. You don't know which diet program is best for you, which one would work the quickest, the safest, the cheapest... what about diet pills?... very confusing. Many question. Some would square by this program. Others prefer another program... they loose a few pounds, then regained some, then loose some, then regain some... not until they realize that the amount of calories they put in their body have to be less than the amount they took out (burn off) for them to loose weight. There is no magic. Just simple law of physic.

Tms/anxiety were created by something negative in our minds. Conscious or unconscious, current stress or something happened long ago... who care. Different tms/anxiety doctors gave different thoughts on what caused the symptoms. But they all pretty much gave the same treatment method. They gave us various way to treat ourself but all have the same goal: Don't give a Sh.. about your symptoms!

Think about it. All the treatment methods from Dr Sarno aim at helping us realize that it is psychosomatic, it is not dangerous, just keep using your body the way you normally do.... all of them design to help our brain realize that there is nothing to fear.

Dr Claire Weekes said: accept it, float with it, don't fight it, give it some time... Don't fear it.

Dr Rick Hanson ( http://www.rickhanson.net/ ) explain very well the relationship between our brain and stress. The effect all those stress chemicals and hormones have on our brain and how to rid of them through compassionate living.

Dr. Herbert Benson taught us how to use meditation to treat various mindbody illness. http://www.massgeneral.org/bhi/about/benson.aspx

Many many more teachers and great mindbody doctors out there. If you read, learn from them and if you notice, their methods all have the same aim: no fear, never fear. Our attitude toward our pain/anxiety symptoms should be of "indifference", "unconcern", "who care", "I don't give a Sh..", "I can live with it", "no big deal", " I can handle it"..... then go on with life as if you're a perfectly healthy person. It is not easy but it is doable and achievable.

The biggest challenge is to believe your symptoms is tms/anxiety. If you don't fully believe it is tms/anxiety, nothing will work.

Another thing is if your life is currently full of stress, hatred, loneliness... negative thoughts.... it is almost impossible to cure yourself of tms/anxiety. How are you going to be cure if you keep coming home and tell your spouse how much you've hated your job. Or telling your best friend how much you've hated your mom. With stress like divorce, unemployed, care for a sick relatives.... tms/anxiety is always nearby.

Focus on de-stress your life instead of your symptoms.
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