| Author |
 Topic  |
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
 Posted - 03/01/2012 : 23:40:33
|
Wavy, holy cow that was awesome. Thanks !
|
 |
|
|
cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 08:47:33
|
@ wavy soul - I think so. You use different words and method of phrasing -- but in effect what your saying is that I'm trying to do. Through meditation and a couple other avenues...but its not easy.
The part I'm struggling with isn't so much what to do, but what to do until something changes. At the moment what I am doing hasn't alleviated the symptoms. So I was simply looking around for thoughts on how to deal with the mounting frustrations of not being able to sleep at night, trying to function normally and being depressed by the pain when nothing seems to be changing. Its like some bad joke that get played on you every day without an end in sight.
And this might not be as good talking with "other living breathing humans" but for me its something, and for the moment all thats available to me.
@baseball65 - thanks for expanding on your post. I can imagine going to a parents grave would have that effect. I will keep trying, but I dont think theres all that much logic to something like this. Maybe at some point I will just have it happen naturally, I guess that would be ideal. I don't know, I'm rambling now.
|
|
|
|
Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 09:23:44
|
cnotes,
I went through a terrible time with pain and anxiety about six-seven years ago. During my recovery, I investigated diagnoses and treatments at the speed of light, saw tons of doctors, therapists, etc. just like you describe.
I was told by a very insightful therapist whose experience with anxiety-related illness and inertia that I was suffering from intense rejection of myself and the world as I saw it fitting around me, which is to say that I was excessively egocentric and all the problems I saw with the world were that it didn't comport with my definition of how it "should be" or how I "should be." It wasn't until this realization that it is illogical and in direct violation of the laws of nature, God's plan, or however you term it to spend your life like this that I began to change little by little.
Here's a primer for you from my notebook: Fear is nothing more than a message from your brain to your body that something you are encountering is labeled "dangerous." It may be actual, physical danger, or it may be reputational. More than likely it is reputational. By that I mean, you are perceiving social hurts and rejection as a consequence of what you want to do, so you choose not to. This is how avoidance creeps in to your life like a morning fog that won't burn off. I double underlined this: You can't begin to conquer your fear until you realize what it is that you fear.
Your symptoms are what you fear currently. They are what serve as your excuse for non-participation in whatever your chosen activities would be if they weren't present. But your symptoms, if fear/sressed based, are not dangerous at all. What you really fear is what will happen to your reputation if you undertake the things you wish to do in a way that brings satisfaction. Some people fear failure. Others fear success. You have to sort this out for yourself. Some people, because of how they view others, revisit their judgments on themselves as they perceive themselves if they were successful and choose not to dive passionately into something because it might cause them to be disliked by jealous onlookers. Again, reputational dangers are seen and understood almost subliminally in our world. Oh my God, if I passed out in the mall, what would people think? Oh my God, if I limped disheveled into the grocery store and saw Mr. Givens, he might tell Mr. Baumgartner that I looked bad and must be suffering because I couldn't carry on a lucid conversation. On and on and on. The mind just goes like a wild river.
I don't know what dragons you foresee having to slay when you step out of your comfort zone, but I know for certain that slaying them is impossible if you don't attempt to go back, as Dr. Sarno, Dr. Weekes, Dr. Low, me, Baseball65, balto, and others repeatedly exhort you to, to DOING WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND PAYING NO ATTENTION TO HOW YOU FEEL PHYSICALLY. You want comfort, and that's understandable, but you can't strike your muscles with fear at every turn and expect them to perform well in any circumstance. That has to be relearned.
I have come to the belief that social anxieties are the most destructive power unleashed upon the world, and a lot of what has been labeled alternately as TMS, irritable bowel syndrome, fibromyalgia, etc. has little at all to do with emotional repression and more to do with the constant CHOICE to avoid doing what we can to be successful and productive due to what others think. Even if repression is indeed the cause, beneath that is the choice to hold in anger and fear because of the fear of what others will think if it were expressed.
So what do you do at the end of your rope? Tie a knot, hang on, and keep swinging. Pay attention closely to the internal arguments and see if you can't spy the imagined reputational monster playing a prominent role. Then realize that he isn't real, your symptoms aren't dangerous at all, and that you have no excuse left but to go back to living a full, albeit imperfect, life.
All the best!
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
Edited by - Hillbilly on 03/02/2012 09:24:33 |
|
|
|
cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 21:39:28
|
@hillbilly - This may sound a bit blasphemous being on the TMS forum and all. But I am only partially on board with what the idea of TMS, and how it is presented in Sarno's books.
First a major criticism that has to be leveled is the books make it sound easy, when in fact its not. As people on here have said and is clearly evidenced through my own experience its a process. The book makes it sound is if simply knowing is enough and groundbreaking results are sure to follow.
Second I struggle around the idea of conscious thought vs. subconscious imprinting as the core of the problem. Maybe I've missed something but don't see a clear distinction between the two in regard to TMS. To me working with therapists, practicing positive self talk, flip switching or learning to deal with fear/anxiety are all great but they don't seem causal. It doesn't appear to be the root. I'm sure many people can get something through this cognitive/behavioral type approach. But it just doesnt seem to cut it for me. At least so far anyway.
This is why I say that I am only partially on board with the TMS school of thought. Its left me feeling abit at sea, because I think that my problem is subconscious and don't see any clear indication on how to approach that. I've had to look elsewhere -- and when it comes to "changing your subconscious mind" it seems to be a minefield as far as finding quality is concerned.
I've done exactly what I want to do with little thought to how I feel physically for a long time now. I've quit my job, moved 3,000 miles away from home, done systemic exercises on approaching my fear and come a long way in terms of caring what others think of me. Essentially told everyone to jog on and done exactly what I would do if I was dying + plus anything and everything thats been recommended to me for TMS. Close to a year later I feel about the same as when I paid chiros hundreds of dollars a month to "help" me.
It still all feels like fiddling around on the surface. I think what I'm going for is something akin to what Eckhart Tolle refers to as the "pain body". Unfortunately when you start trying to address years if not lifetimes of emotional garbage you are certainly not looking at a quick fix. I guess i've gone on abit of a tangent..but maybe someone else feels the same way I do when it comes to conscious/subconscious? or maybe I am completely wrong and just dont know it. If someone wants to tell me i've misunderstood something about TMS or how to deal with it I am all ears.
Either way I appreciate your and everyone else's perspective(s) and wish you all the best too. |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 01:56:35
|
Hi Cnotes11,
Sorry to hear you're not making progress, well wherever you go there you are and your TMS backache comes along. I recommend you read a new TMS book by Steven Ray Ozanich, "THE GREAT PAIN DECEPTION". I'm just cracking into it and it looks to be chock full of useful TMS information written by someone who's been there for many years and broke through.
Cheers,
tt |
|
|
|
Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 11:03:21
|
that book just plopped on my doorstep too, looking forward to cracking it and we can tawk abaddit!
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 10:33:26
|
Cnotes
When you say you quit your job, how were you relating that to ignoring pain? Just curious and I'm probably not reading it correctly.
You sound very stubborn, by the way. Just like me! :)
I bet you internally hate the notion of going through your day and not mentioning your pain to someone, or at least being on guard about it. ( Jusy like me. )
I'll bet this pain has become your personality, despite your efforts to continue on normally. (Just like me)
I'll bet that you believe there is an answer to all of this that you'll find if you keep searching for it tirelessly. (Like me)
I'll bet that you fear letting go of the situation for fear it might get worse if not under your constant, watchful eye. (Yep, like me!)
I'll also bet you don't really not like having some control in situations.
Maybe I'm off base, but I hear a lot of myself in your posts. My main problem has been anxiety, with back pain a distant second. I've also had some actual physical healing to do from drug withdrawal a a result of prescription meds. (Lightly used, never abused)
Coping with pain, and changing my brain have been my focus as of late. Acceptance and yet restructuring. Have you read Claire Weekes, listened to Joe Dispenza? Even inspirational speakers like Tony Robbins? (Dont laugh, his work is based in solid science.)
Mala mentioned changing who you are in another thread. Would you say you're attempting to do so?
|
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2012 : 18:12:24
|
Cnotes,
Just thought of you when I heard a great line by Joe Dispenza...
"... your subconscious mind responds to who you're BEING."
It's a very deep statement, imo. You'll have to listen to some of his stuff for it to make more sense... but there's a lot to it, imo.
|
|
|
|
cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 00:38:14
|
@ Bryan3000 -- Another person who responded was telling me I needed to go about business as usual like I had no pain. The bit about quitting work along with the other things I listed to meant to show that I am trying to do this. Travel is something I've wanted to do and didnt want to let pain stop me. I guess without the full context that could be confusing.
You are partially right about the other stuff. I'm probably a bit stubborn..yes at times its hard feeling like you've got no control...and the pain hasn't become my personality so much as my entire life.
About the letting go part...I think I've made some progress with this in a general life sense. But when it comes to the experience of physical pain I dont know how/haven't succeeded yet at letting go. Pain necessitates attention and even if I don't mean to "have it under a watchful eye".. is what happens when it gets bad enough. And yes I am constantly searching for a solution. I can't not. Where I am right now is simply too uncomfortable. I dont think much of that is in line with acceptance..but thats how it is for me at the moment.
No I have not read either of those people, I'll add them to my list to check into. I'm not laughing at Tony Robbins believe me. If Jim Jones was holding a weekend seminar and I thought It would help I'd go.
I think everyone is trying to change something about themselves right? I of course am, 7 years of pain ages 18-25 goes a long way in getting your attention to the fact something about your life or yourself as a person is not working.
But as I alluded to above I feel a bit stuck with the conscious/subconscious thing. The quote is interesting, I'll have to investigate that author further. |
|
|
|
cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 00:41:27
|
| Also if you hear/see yourself in some of my posts I am very sorry. I wish you better health in the future. |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 16:41:43
|
Cnotes,
Thanks much. I'm improving slowly. Again, I've got a physical issue due to a bad drug reaction that I'm overcoming, but I think that's nearing an end and I'll just be dealing with my organic, underlying issues of anxiety/panic.
The subconscious issue is an interesting one. Hillbilly gives great advice, and essentially believes tinkering with it is wasting time. I freely admit to having some interest in it, as the cause of my issues have been elusive and I've generally gotten back to all normal activities myself. (Outside of heavy sports and weights, which I miss and love and hopefully is up next.)
So, I'm in that category of people Hillbilly talks about who very well may not be well enough to offer advice! All I can say is, I have made progress... my understanding is way up and it's mostly due to learning that the symptoms aren't dangerous and trying to live life.
That said, I do think my issue also may be more below the surface. But, even if it is... like Dispenza says, your subconscious reacts to what you're DOING... how you're BEING. If it believes you're sick and in constant danger, I assume it's going to continue to prepare the way for self "protection" via chemicals, bodily pains, etc. So, even if our problem IS subconscious... there's a good argument to be made that affecting this area of the brain can be done through our conscious actions and thoughts. The limbic system is in constant communication with the front brain and its setting is determined by the feedback it receives.
Basically what I'm saying is.... you may be right, but Hillbilly may be right as well.
|
|
|
|
cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 21:25:23
|
@ Bryan3000 - Fair enough. I watched an interview with Dr. Dispenza last night. Hes got some good stuff to say and I like his scientific approach to things. Don't always get that when you start talking about energy or "being", subconscious, etc.
I will need to watch more to really nail down what it is hes advising people to do, but thanks for the tip, looks to be another good source of information.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
What to do at the end of your rope
