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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
 Posted - 11/21/2011 : 08:07:02
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| Dear Balto, your posts about fear in general, have been very helpful to me and I am improving rapidly. I am reading Claire Weekes book, but to be honest, I cant say the secondary fear or the floating applys to me as opposed to generalized fear to everything, and just pushing that feeling out like you did and saying screw it. This has been indeed the most important thing. Thank you for your advice. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2011 : 09:47:03
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Ace,
Her book is written for panic sufferers, which you may well find applies to you as your pain dissipates. You might encounter a situation where for no reason at all, you suddenly feel a rush of apprehension, followed by an overwhelming feeling of danger to get out of someplace. It is probably not likely, but many report it here, so be alert. Reading her work is helpful for many reasons, and the biggest is that there is no danger at all from the symptoms, and panic is just a psycho-neural chemical reaction just like muscle tension.
My problem was not just with pain, but I also had a couple panic attacks, wouldn't go out in public much at all, didn't want to go anywhere that required standing in one place for any length of time at all. The behavior patterns that follow panic disorder are largely mimicked by chronic pain. The symptoms, although harmless, apprehend the mind and change behavior, which interferes with life. That's what has to change, and it's the only thing that has to change. Exercise your will to bear discomfort in your daily life, and success will be yours shortly.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2011 : 14:08:01
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| Thank you Hillbilly, I will for sure look out for those things, and I am still continuing with the book , followed by at last a life witth a completely open mind. You are a fully recovered person and for that I take your advice very seriously. Once again, I admire your perseverance on this site to help others like me. Once I am 100% cured, I will come back and tell you what exactly helped me. Even though I am 90-95% better, I do not like to offer any advice to others until I am 100% as that way I am sure that I am giving the right advice. I may ask you and Balto (and others) along the way if you guys dont mind with any questions that arise along the way. Thanks again, your input is always very valuable. |
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Aussie
Australia
87 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2011 : 18:51:35
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Hi guys,
I am new here and trying to learn as much as i can without having access to a TMS doc. Before my chronic back pain started 2 years ago, I was experiencing daily anxiety for over 12 months.Basically I developed a fear that i would have a heart attack, Mainly as i tried to go to sleep (i was only 28 at the time). I would also have daily adrenaline surges that would make my body jump if i was lying down relaxing. My GP sent me to a psychologist however at that time it didnt really help. What did help was viewing my the fear of heart attack as stupid and silly, as i was fit and healthy with no family history of heart disease. What else helped was to start an intense exercise and weight regime that seemed to get the anxiety under control and greatly improve my physical and mental well being. After around 2 years of being relatively anxiety free except for very mild occasional symptoms, I developed chronic low back pain. After learning of TMS and reading about it's link with anxiety i am guessing that after my anxiety was under control my brain needed a new distraction and bingo, Now i have daily and relentless back pain. All my anxiety is focused around my back pain now and i never think about the old heart stuff i used to. It is all starting to make sense now. Anxiety and my back pain must be linked. I am also experiencing an acute flare up in my back after genuinely realising that TMS is the culprit here and not the "Weak core muscles" diagnosed by physio's as i dont have a structual issue on MRI. Im guessing my brain doesnt wanna give up its current place of focus and is sending me a nice dose of acute pain to let me know who's boss. One thing i can take away is knowing what this is and moving forward closer to beating this. I know iv'e been ranting here but it feels good to get it all out as friends and family dont really understand.
Thanks for listening. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2011 : 19:56:52
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I'm currently reading Claire Weekes again for about the 5th time in the past couple of years. Every time, I feel relief just from reading her comforting words. And I can't believe how ahead of her time she was, writing almost 45 years ago!
A good way to regard the second fear she talks about, is fear of fear. There is the first fear, which is whatever the trigger is. At that point there is a micro-second of awareness where you can prevent the second fear. In my case, I am getting better at seeing this. The problem is, the compulsion to give in to the second fear is usually so great (hard-wired through repetition) that most of the time I give in to it. And every time I suffer far more than necessary as a result!
The problem with second fear is that it sets up a vicious cycle of fear, alarm at fear, more fear, even greater alarm, and on and on. If you can stop at the first fear and not unnecessarily add to the fear cycle, it will soon be over.
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2011 : 21:05:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Thank you Hillbilly, I will for sure look out for those things, and I am still continuing with the book , followed by at last a life witth a completely open mind. You are a fully recovered person and for that I take your advice very seriously. Once again, I admire your perseverance on this site to help others like me. Once I am 100% cured, I will come back and tell you what exactly helped me. Even though I am 90-95% better, I do not like to offer any advice to others until I am 100% as that way I am sure that I am giving the right advice. I may ask you and Balto (and others) along the way if you guys dont mind with any questions that arise along the way. Thanks again, your input is always very valuable.
Hi Ace1, I'm very glad you've found some of my posts useful in your fight with tms/anxiety. Big thanks to Dave to creating and maintaining this forum. I wish there are forums like this when I first got tms/anxiety.
Doctor Weekes taught us to fight anxiety/tms using: "accepting, floating, and giving time (waiting). You may not fear your symptoms but you need to accept your symptoms too. Because if you don't accept your symptoms then your thougths will keep focusing on them and that will prolong your suffering. (you are what you think about all day long) You have to think of your symptoms like a bad pimple on your face, a cut on your finger, a bruise from a fall from playing basketball, a black eye from a bar fight, a broken legs in cast,... they can be painful and they will stay with you for sometimes but you're not worry or fear them right? You hardly think about them during waking hours right? You have to approach tms/anxiety symptoms with the same attitude, the same thinking way. Accept them, they will be with you for a while, but so what, they're not dangerous, they're just a nuisance... now let go get some lunch, do something...
Now that you're accepting them, Just "float" right over them, do something else, focus on some other tasks... when your focus is no longer on them, those pains will eventually leave. Sit down and watch a good movie with someone. Have a nice cup of hot tea and watch the leafs changing colors on the trees. Walk your dog and look at the ladies in beautiful clothes walking by, say hello to them, smile to passer by, ask your co-worker about their life, what they proud the most about themselve, tell the lady at the drive thru window she look great today,.... There are lots and lots of better things to do and think about than your back pain right?
Fear has many equivalents. Fear is not the only thing that can prolong your symptoms. Worry about it, hate it, focusing too much on it, on the pain, ... can contribute to your pain lingering with you.
And don't forget to give it "time". It take a long time being under stress for you to be ill with tms/anxiety, it will take sometime to get well, to get rid of tms/anxiety.
Some people got better after suffering for a long time, but they never completely get rid of the symptoms. They thought of their pain, their anxiety as something chronic that they can only manage but will never be able to elliminate completely. I think tms/anxiety are normal human body sensation. A normal body reaction to stress, to negative disturbance to our peaceful mind. Just like when the weather is hot we feel hot and when it is cold we feel cold. When out stomach is empty we feel hungry, We feel tired after a 2, 3 miles run, we feel sleepy after a long day, we itch when we got a rash,... we feel stress out when we're under stress from everyday life situations. If that stress is prolong or if it is intense (lost of loveones, divorse,...) we may get tms/anxiety.
If I don't remember wrong, you've said in a few posts back you have a pretty stressful life style. It may help if you can find way to reduce your stress. There are many ways to reduce or elliminate stress from our life.
Some people become spiritual and seek help from the man upstair. Science said it does helped.
Some people learn how to deal with adverse, challenging situations in a more positive way. I suggest you read the book "Stop worry and start living" by Dale Carnegie on this subject. It is one of my favorite book and it help me tremendously. Very practical and full of real life example of people with stress and anxiety problems.
Some people make changes to their life style in order to have more peace in their lifes. They do things like travel more to see the world around them so they know their is not so bad. Volunteer more to feel good about themselve. Make more friends, spend more meaningful time with love ones. Simplyfied their life more so they needs is less so they don't have to work more.....
If you do the same thing days in and days out and got the same results for years then it is about time you make changes. And don't affraid to make changes, just plan ahead, do some research on what need to be change and what is the best way to go about doing it.
Also, there are more than 6000+ posted topic in this forum alone. Spend sometime skim thru them. Just about any questions on tms/anxiet have already been answered. it just take time to search them thru. Seek out those poster who have conquered their pain, their fear. I have learned a lot from many posters of their many different ways to get well. We have lots of very amazing people in this forum.
another long post. I hope someone find it something useful in it. |
Edited by - balto on 11/21/2011 21:14:49 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 06:58:32
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| Thank you Balto, this once a again was a very good and helpful post. My biggest problem, is it is engrained in me to rush, even when I try my best to stop this, It is such an automatic reation and this I guess always creates a conflict and keeps me out of peace. Any suggestions to stop this automatic reaction? (I think as time goes on, it is getting better, but very slow, which may be the way it has to be) |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 07:10:41
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| Oh also one more thing, I am trying to find a balance a good balance of peace and not being too relaxed which can be someone who is not participating in sports or exertional activities, and maybe you guys can comment on how you found this balance. I found if I do something with a lot of exertion, it sometimes requires force or competition which in turn puts me out of peace. I know that thats not normal, so the input from you guys on this would be much appreciated. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 07:35:04
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Try exercising in the water. I used to be a runner completing 13 marathons, but due to my hip arthritis, I can't run very well on the land anymore. I bought an AquaJogger flotation belt and now run a half hour a day in the deep end of the pool. Running in the pool makes the exertion level seem less because you don't get the sensation that you are sweating and it is non-weight bearing. I'll also do about a dozen laps of backstroke to stretch out after tennis. When all else fails return to the water.
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DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 08:47:23
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Hi Tom,
I can safely say hip arthritis is indeed TMS and nothing else. I have to respectfully disagree with the water exercise as that is babying the symptom. What I was asking more so was the emotional aspect of exerting myself to play sports, naturally that is not a peaceful state, so my question to Balto and Hillbilly was how did they address this when treating their own TMS. Normal people play sports without pain. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 09:07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Hi Tom,
I can safely say hip arthritis is indeed TMS and nothing else. I have to respectfully disagree with the water exercise as that is babying the symptom.
I apologize for responding to your post, and not correctly understanding your question and that it was directed specifically only to Balto and Hillbilly--you don't get a post count like mine by being very discriminating. It's early out here on the left-coast and I haven't yet had my coffee and Pillsbury Pastry Streudel. I will take an on line reading comprehension course ASAP.
As to your assertion that "hip arthritis is indeed TMS and nothing else", I'm rooting for you and hope you are absolutely right on that count! Please contact Drs. Schechter and Eisendorf, (their contact info is in my sig),and argue your point with them. They are the two TMS docs who told me I had "significant arthritis of the right hip" and to get a "hip-replacement sooner than later". I pray you get me some better news, so I can stop hobbling around on the tennis courts as I have been for over the last fifteen years. In the meantime I can still run in the water. Once again, I apologize that I did not understand the narrow nature of your question.
Cheers
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
Edited by - tennis tom on 11/22/2011 09:17:49 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 09:41:25
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| Dear Tom, Im sure of it, Remember in healing back pain the woman with the hip arthritis who got better. I talked to Dr. Sarno before and he did confirm that hip "arthritis" can indeed be cured by this method. Dont listen to the bs of the other doctors. I know it will get better if you fix the emotional. I dont want to give advice yet on the emotional as I said before I am not 100% yet, but when I am, I will come back with it. I actually have a lot to add, but I dont want to give misinformation while I'm sorting it out. One thing for sure is what I stated above and if it makes you feel better call the main man's office himself and he will confirm what I said. |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 10:57:43
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| Pardon for butting in and at the risk of being socked on both cheeks, I have to say that one's age is a factor in whether their arthritis has a physical basis. Sarno himself says that he suspects TMS in people between certain ages. |
Edited by - Bugbear on 11/22/2011 10:59:44 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 11:01:00
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| Sorry I have to diagree, unfortunely bugbear you are going to making tom suseptable to more pain by the power of suggestion. Dr. Sarno himself is almost 90 and doesnt have a pain in his body. He must have degenration in his hip. Like I said before, I personally asked him this question and he said if the person is open to TMS he will be able to overcome the pain |
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kesh2
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 13:07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Dear Tom, Im sure of it, Remember in healing back pain the woman with the hip arthritis who got better. I talked to Dr. Sarno before and he did confirm that hip "arthritis" can indeed be cured by this method. Dont listen to the bs of the other doctors. I know it will get better if you fix the emotional. I dont want to give advice yet on the emotional as I said before I am not 100% yet, but when I am, I will come back with it. I actually have a lot to add, but I dont want to give misinformation while I'm sorting it out. One thing for sure is what I stated above and if it makes you feel better call the main man's office himself and he will confirm what I said.
In sarno's HPB, one woman had "a very modest amount of arthritic change...about what would be expected of someone of her age" (page 10 in my edition) another had "only moderate arthritic change [with] normal range of motion [and] no pain with weight bearing" (page 113).
Sarno acknowledges that hip osteoarthritis is real, that it causes joints to become dysfunctional, and that hip replacement is a "triumph of reconstructive surgery". What he doesn't accept is that it is always painful, just that it "may be so in some cases". (all quotes from HPB page 113) |
Edited by - kesh2 on 11/22/2011 13:10:01 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 13:55:58
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Kesh,
I spoke to Dr. Sarno personally last year and I mentioned what he said. You have to remember the books are very careful as to avoid chances of law suits. Remember that when he says "what would be expected of her age" it just helps to strengthen the argument. Remember the understanding of the process increases with time as your in medicine and maybe he wasn't as confident at that time as he was not about RSI, but it appears that now he is confident enough. To Tom, just call his office, he usually calls you back and he will confirm what I am saying. I'm just not sure if he will return your call if you live outside of NYC |
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kesh2
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 14:53:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Kesh,
I spoke to Dr. Sarno personally last year and I mentioned what he said. You have to remember the books are very careful as to avoid chances of law suits. Remember that when he says "what would be expected of her age" it just helps to strengthen the argument. Remember the understanding of the process increases with time as your in medicine and maybe he wasn't as confident at that time as he was not about RSI, but it appears that now he is confident enough. To Tom, just call his office, he usually calls you back and he will confirm what I am saying. I'm just not sure if he will return your call if you live outside of NYC
I'd like to be clear what you are claiming. Are you claiming hip osteoarthritis doesn't cause pain (as in real, non TMS pain), or are you claiming hip osteoarthritis doesn't cause joint dysfunction? The former seems to be where Sarno is leaning, the latter directly contradicts him and is biomechanically preposterous.
Oh, and as regard Sarno's health, anecdote is not evidence. Osteoarthritis varies widely in the aged.
Edit, okay I got from the other thread that you only think pain from OA is TMS.
So please refrain from such unequivocal language as your earlier:
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
I can safely say hip arthritis is indeed TMS and nothing else
as coming from a doctor this is downright dangerous.
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Edited by - kesh2 on 11/22/2011 15:20:18 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 18:55:31
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| Good luck to you kesh. I'm not on this forum to prove anything, but I still stand by my comment all osteoarthritis is tms. 99% or more of people who get hip replacements do it for pain not for any other reason. How is it dangerous to call osteoarthritis tms dangerous? It's not like it's cancer. Someone who broke his leg, knows something is wrong but there are no obsessional components which is not the case in OA of the hip. Think about it how is OA of the spine any different from OA of any other joint. I have numerous reasons to say what I have said that I cannot list them all here. I wish you the best. |
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TaylorJoh
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 19:55:47
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Ace1,
I wanted to congratulate you on your 90-95% recovery. If I got to that point, I don't think there would be any skepticism as to what I was doing was at least right for me. I understand that you don't want to share any advice until you reach perfection, obviously, that is the perfectionist in you lol. But I'm curious, are you doing anything different than Sarno's "program" (for lack of a better term)?
Taylor
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Thank you Hillbilly, I will for sure look out for those things, and I am still continuing with the book , followed by at last a life witth a completely open mind. You are a fully recovered person and for that I take your advice very seriously. Once again, I admire your perseverance on this site to help others like me. Once I am 100% cured, I will come back and tell you what exactly helped me. Even though I am 90-95% better, I do not like to offer any advice to others until I am 100% as that way I am sure that I am giving the right advice. I may ask you and Balto (and others) along the way if you guys dont mind with any questions that arise along the way. Thanks again, your input is always very valuable.
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Ophelia
France
38 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 07:38:08
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| This is all such fabulous advise and so encouraging to a chronic sciatica sufferer deep appreciation to all of you. Ophelia |
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kesh2
United Kingdom
32 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 08:08:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Good luck to you kesh. I'm not on this forum to prove anything, but I still stand by my comment all osteoarthritis is tms. 99% or more of people who get hip replacements do it for pain not for any other reason. How is it dangerous to call osteoarthritis tms dangerous? It's not like it's cancer. Someone who broke his leg, knows something is wrong but there are no obsessional components which is not the case in OA of the hip. Think about it how is OA of the spine any different from OA of any other joint. I have numerous reasons to say what I have said that I cannot list them all here. I wish you the best.
Dangerous I guess because if you tell someone with no cartilage in their hip joint and whose hip is locking to ignore it and go running, they are likely to hurt themselves. |
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Thanks to Balto
