| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
alexis
USA
596 Posts |
 Posted - 05/06/2011 : 15:17:26
|
Occasionally conversations have popped up here asking about a "new" or "better" name for TMS. Particularly in light of the recent debate about whether "TMS" is distraction (as defined by Sarno), anxiety (as many believe, and which shares many symptoms), and OCD spectrum disorder or something else, I wondered how people feel about the proposed symptomatic category of Complex Somatic Symptom Disorder, and whether that hits on the general type of condition we're mostly all talking about:
http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=368 |
|
|
Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 10:07:08
|
Certainly looks like a description of TMS. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
I'm sure the drug companies are hard at work to find a treatment for "CSSD"  |
 |
|
|
kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 08:34:08
|
If ya really look in detail its just another diagnosis that confirms a bunch of other ones together . ( all it means is this person has serious issues) Imo I would not even read this sort of stuff as it doesn’t help you get better.
Always Hope For Recovery
|
|
|
|
alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 17:55:55
|
I'm not reading the DSM-V proposals to get better, but to keep an eye on the pulse of modern psychology (which this is) and how it will evolve in relation to those conditions we here refer to as "TMS", "OCD", "hypochondriasis" or "anxiety".
This publication is the basis for what the US psychological community will address as an actual condition - and it's actually far more specific (for good or for bad) than the broader lists of conditions in Sarno’s books. Whether you agree or disagree, what finally makes it into this publication is what will get research funding in the years to come - and therefore have a significant impact on our concerns. |
|
|
|
Mudster
5 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 06:05:36
|
quote:
Occasionally conversations have popped up here asking about a "new" or "better" name for TMS. Particularly in light of the recent debate about whether "TMS" is distraction (as defined by Sarno)
When I read Dr Sarno's description of the pain associated with TMS being a distraction, I immediately knew this wasn't so. It's the one thing I believe he's got wrong, as I believe the opposite is true.
Without going into my own life story in detail, I can say that for years my life has been filled with distractions to avoid being present to my traumatised past and all the associated feelings. For me the excruciating pain that came with the sciatica symptoms is a fog horn among the bells, tinkles and other alarms I've had to alert me that I need to face the hidden issues I so skilfully avoid. It's the body/mind upping the ante, with some urgency, in order to get us to address these issues.
|
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 09:20:25
|
It is both amusing and saddening that TMS believers feel they need to change it's name to gain acceptance. As they say, you can put lip-stick on a pig...
Dr. Sarno uses TMS and psychsomatic interchangeably. The world understands the term "psychosomatic" but doesn't want to deal with it--human nature.
I don't see how giving TMS a new name will change it's acceptance in the scientific community and by doctors. If they haven't gotten it by now they aren't going to. Doctor's aren't going to go from spending 90 seconds talking to patients to 55 minutes and doing psycho-therapy.
A good description of what changing the terminology of TMS is Wiki's defintion of "OBFUSCATION" :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscation
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
|
Edited by - tennis tom on 05/11/2011 21:21:44 |
|
|
|
art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 10:31:21
|
Alexis,
That's certainly the best description of this illness, or syndrome perhaps, that I've seen.
I've got to confess that I've never really gotten your belief that TMS is not essentially an anxiety disorder, at least if I'm understanding you correctly. |
|
|
|
alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 17:50:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by art
Alexis,
That's certainly the best description of this illness, or syndrome perhaps, that I've seen.
I've got to confess that I've never really gotten your belief that TMS is not essentially an anxiety disorder, at least if I'm understanding you correctly.
Yep, you understand that correctly. But I don't know that I would say "TMS" is anything exclusively, since I think we still have a very ill-defined category that could apply to people whose pain originates in many different ways.
And interestingly if we look at this arrangement, TMS as we know it is falling under neither anxiety nor the OCD spectrum disorders (also no longer classed as anxiety) but in the somatization class (from which the theoretical origins arise, but which is controversial).
All of this is a bit off topic and more related to our previous thread on anxiety and OCD (http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6693). Really the reason I'm interested in this is because we don't know what's the "first cause" in a lot of cases. Is it for some a genetic predisposition to OCD and compulsive thoughts that makes one both feel pain and then become anxious? Is it for others life stresses that cause anxiety and pain? Is it a conversion disorder - essentially "referred" pain from a non-pain mental state? Is it for some just a symptom of alexithemia? Is it a conscious or unconscious distraction?
My guess is for different people it's different causes, sometimes multiple and sometimes things not even on this list. But what this description in the DSM will do is make it a "condition" or "syndrome" or whatever you need to get people to actually study it and get some grasp on the answers. Because unlike some, I don't believe this condition is beyond research. We already have a ton of research on various related aspects (OCD, alexithemia, anxiety and many other topics). What we need is a focal point to bring this together and put good researchers onto synthesizing the information that's out there and creating good diagnostic tools that might help find the causes or causes in individual cases.
CSSD doesn't need to always be caused by the same thing. There are people who study "stunted growth" or "diabetes" or any number of conditions with multiple stimulating factors. But we need to have a "thing" to study for anyone to care. Simply stated, no one is going to put millions into studying “TMS”.
|
Edited by - alexis on 05/11/2011 17:53:32 |
|
|
|
wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 19:46:31
|
| If re-naming TMS "Complex Somatic Symptom Disorder" makes it sound more scientific and gives it some long-sought credibility in the scientific community, then I'm all for it. Whatever works. Maybe stretching the name to five or six words would work even better. |
|
|
|
art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 05:53:11
|
Personally, I think TMS is a bit stale and even perhaps a misnomer.
I'm all for change. |
|
|
|
alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 05:56:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
If re-naming TMS "Complex Somatic Symptom Disorder" makes it sound more scientific and gives it some long-sought credibility in the scientific community, then I'm all for it. Whatever works. Maybe stretching the name to five or six words would work even better.
Hi wrldtv,
I don't really think the issue is how long or scientific sounding the name is, but where it originated. I'm saying nothing particular against psychologists - every field is the same. But practitioners look to their own, and a term coined by an outsider who quoted century old psychology and did no controlled research just isn't going to fly.
I have great respect for what Sarno did, but if we want this area to move forward we have to go with a term that's going to win out (one originating within the field). Maybe it will be CSSD, maybe something else. But we need to have hard core research for this to be more than just a diagnosis of exlusion.
It's easy for people like myself who saw great results in just a few months even with just what is now out there. But there are many here with more complex or confusing cases whose causes need to be better understood, and for whom treatments need to be more specific.
Or in scarier cases, some don't have TMS/CSSD at all, but a missed physical diagnosis, or are intentionally looking for an excuse to ignore a physical injury. I think we need the research for all of these cases, if we don't want to continue with all the cases we have now (and see just on this board) where many go on suffering for years. |
Edited by - alexis on 05/12/2011 06:06:16 |
|
|
|
Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 09:35:47
|
I like stress illness, which is what Dr. Clarke calls it. But whatever the name ends up being in the DSM, there are moneyed interests who can have the controlled studies manipulated to reach a conclusion that keeps the money flowing. I'm a bit of a cynic, I know, but I think there has been enough evidence out there for more than 50 years that muscle pain, shaking, diarrhea, racing thoughts, insomnia, etc. that is chronic but gets worse when we are doing things we don't want to do is caused by our emotional state.
I still think acceptance of a benign, nervous-system-based condition by the patient was, is and will forever be the single biggest obstacle to recovery. And even with acceptance comes compliance with treatment, which is in many ways excruciatingly expensive (psychotherapy) or time consuming and often just adds a stressor to the boiling cauldron. I hope they address these issues as well
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
|
|
|
wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 19:34:48
|
| Dr Sopher calls it "The Mindbody Syndrome" but of course that could mean anything. My earlier suggestion to lengthen the name was tongue-in-cheek, of course, but with some basis. The experts are impressed by that sort of thing. |
|
|
|
alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2011 : 18:21:46
|
I just read this critique of the proposal from the European ME (chronic fatigue) site (it's actually from a few month’s back):
"We are especially concerned about the criteria described in the new category of Complex Somatic Symptom Disorder which seems to imply that anyone who has a chronic or incurable illness with somatic symptoms and ‘misattributes’ their symptoms could be given this label."
http://www.euro-me.org/news-Q22011-003.htm
Another similar publication:
http://www.coalition4mecfs.org/DSM-5_Position_Paper_-_FInal2.pdf
Though I favor the CSSD proposal, and myself think many MR/CF cases would fall rightly into the new category, I can also see that there's risk (JimmyJimmy's vitamin D deficiency being the classic example we saw here). Even if the pendulum does swing this way, one or two misdiagnoses and it seems likely to swing it back pretty quick.
|
|
|
|
Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2011 : 05:48:58
|
Alexis! What is "alexithemia?"!! Did you invent this name? Should I call TMS Wavithemia?
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2011 : 09:28:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wavy Soul
Did you invent this name? Should I call TMS Wavithemia?
Hi Katie,
With all you've gone through recently, I'm glad you've been able to keep your sense of humor.
tt  |
|
|
|
Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2011 : 13:17:06
|
Thanks, Tom! You don't know the half of it - came back the other day from UK where stepmother has brain tumor to find that my darling cat "Merlin Darling" has a brain tumor, and have been up all night after her surgery trying to get her to drink water and just took her back to cat hospital.
Stress - and yes, all my symptoms are up. Especially the Katithemia.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Complex Somatic Symptom Disorder
