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wease
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
 Posted - 01/26/2005 : 06:29:24
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I can't believe I've stumbled onto this site. I have been battling with TMS since my teens and have had chronic back pain for 3yrs. I have read Dr Sarno's Mind Body prescription since April 2004 and have only started seeing an improvement in my pain since November 2004.
I find the pain occasionally goes but it always returns. I really struggle with knowing what I am feeling and have been seeing a therapist for a year now but really doubt if the Sarno process is working? Especially as Dr Sarno says most patients pain goes in 2 months!
My other question is I can't deep breath without setting off the pain, if I do I feel my 12th rib catch on something in my back and then I have pain at the site as well as in my sacrum and shoulder. The worst thing apart from not being able to exercise, is I can't relax taking deep breaths. Has anyone had something similar? |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 08:14:30
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Ignore Dr. Sarno's statement that "most patients" recover in 2 months. I don't believe it, at least based on the collective experience of members of this forum.
You have to accept that battling TMS is a life-long process. It's like losing weight. We can't expect to go on a diet for 6 months and then go back to our former way of life and keep the weight off. To keep it off we must change the way we think about food and exercise.
To keep TMS at bay we must change the way we think about chronic pain. We have to continuously recondition our minds. The conditioning took a lifetime to set in, so it's logical that it would take a long time to undo. The fact that the pain comes and goes should be further confirmation to you that it is TMS.
That said, you should definitely see a doctor about your breathing problem. It is important to rule out any serious medical conditions before treating pain as TMS. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 08:47:09
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Hi Wease,welcome.
I noticed in your Bio that you're 31....that seems to be a "coming of age" time for TMS becoming unbearable.
Did you ever have a "structural" diagnosis? What was it?
This sounds a little scary:
quote:
I can't relax taking deep breaths.
and Dave was on the money:
quote:
That said, you should definitely see a doctor about your breathing problem. It is important to rule out any serious medical conditions before treating pain as TMS.
I have had spasms and cramps so bad that breathing hurt for a moment,or if I do chest excercises after a long lay-off,but if it's regular that is definitely something to explore.
Are they from anxiety? Do you have asthma?
As Far as the therapy,what kind is it? I laid on many-a-couch before I had TMS and it came never the less.
Tell us more!!
-out
Baseball65 |
Edited by - Baseball65 on 01/26/2005 08:49:37 |
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wease
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 09:46:01
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I've spent the whole day reading the site and I am still in shock at how many people have similar personalities as myself. There is some extremely good advise and what I desperately need.
I had an MRI for the original pain which was in my sacrum. I was distraught when they found absolutely nothing.
I can't tell you how much money and time I have spent trying to find the answer to my problem. As I sit here writing the pain today is on my right hip ,although most of my problems are based around my left side. The trigger to it is when I deep breath.
In 2003 the physio I used to see gave me exercises to help a pain in my knee but it actually caused something to just go at the point on my spine where 12th rib is attached. It's been like this for a year and a half and came on when I finished with a horrible ex-boyfriend. The second point which fires up when I deep breath is on my shoulder and the third point is on the sacrum on the left hand side. In the last three weeks I have had pain in my right thumb although it has just started subsiding and my right knee occasionally flares up.
I have been seeing a psychotherapist to deal with the feelings I repress and have had to change to a new one with the move to a new city to start a new job. Although very stressful- I know that- but the pain still comes back!
I actually challenged the 12th rib and breathed deeply and screamed at the pain in my head and it vanished but this has happened only the once. Wow I thought to myself.
But, the downside is sometimes there is nothing I can do to keep the pain at bay for good.
The funny thing is the pain in my shoulder started a few months after my 12th rib area. I had been pushing myself (the perfectionist in me) too hard in a training course and I think that's why its come on.
Can you see how much I accept and agree with the Sarno approach but I just can't seem to get a run of no pain. I start fearing its return and of course its back.
I've just had two nights in a row where I haven't had nightmares and the pain is really reduced. In those windows of pain free times it is quite literally heaven.
Thanks so much for getting back to me so soon. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 10:00:53
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| Do yourself a favor and stop thinking in terms like "sacrum" and "12th rib". Don't focus on the physical. |
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diverlarry
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 10:33:56
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I was around your age when i started having back problems. I then became "conditioned". When i did certain things my back would hurt.
You have 3 years of "conditioning". It will take some some to break this. This time is different for everyone.You are programmed to expect pain in certain situations. This programming fear was the most difficult hurdle for me to overcome. Even now im still breaking old conditioning. It gets easier the more you do it. I agree with dave about the pain not going away in 2 months. I think we expect the pain to immediately when we think psycholigical. Maybe it does for some people, it didn't for me and i expect it didn't for other people.
Re-programming your sub-conscious to believe that your pain is psycholigical and not physcial was a uneven and difficult process for me. Once you rule out any serious physcial problems you need to break the viscious conditioning cycle. I look back now and see how it crippled my life. It so clear now, but back then it wasn't. I also needed to understand TMS and it had to make sense to me. If something dosen't make sense i usually don't believe it. TMS is logical to me.
I may not know the repressed emotions(i never have, i guess at them) but the theory makes sense and is validated by hundreds of people.
Doubt will try to creep back now and then, especially when your hurting. But i just ignore it. I wish i believed in TMS years ago.
But your never to young or to old to get better.
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Rudy
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 03:31:59
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Hi Wease,
I sympathise with you 100% as a 4.5year sufferer of acute back and foot problems. Found Sarno in Oct 2004 and recovered 50% v quickly although back is having a re-lapse at the moment. Like you after years of going from one doc to the next finding Sarno was amazing. My personality traits fits 100%.
As well as reading 2 of Sarno's book, I have also read Fred Amir's " Rapid recovery from back and neck pain" and recommend it wholeheartedly. You can get it from Amazon. Amir is a recovered TMS sufferer but explains how in greater depth than Sarno some of the things he did to heal i,e Visualization, setting goals, keeping a diary. It helped me some more.
As for the time to heal, I concur with others, I beleive a year is more realisitic, if like us you've had problems for years
Wish you immense luck, we all know how you're feeling
R |
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wease
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 04:29:56
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Hi guys,
Thank you so much for all your support.
Having people understand what you're going through makes the whole ordeal of TMS less scary. There is a huge benefit from sharing stories with others with TMS.
I am much more convinced I will get better now that I know patience and trust in myself is one of the ways to heal. The 2 months which Dr Sarno mentions was a major pressure which was not helping me get ahead.
I am dying to go back to running and would like to ask if anyone has found a technique which works. I keep trying to get back to doing exercise but fter a couple of successful attempts I lose my nerve and the pain returns during another session.
I know that I should challenge the pain but, as I'm still in the very early days of controlling TMS. Its too good having days off the pain that I don't want to jeopardise this. I'm sure you're all going to say you have to challenge the pain but I am wondering if I need to get a little more confidence in my success with TMS, before challenging my fear with exercise.
I look forward to hearing from you all....
Hey by the way I read on someone's posting that they have learnt so much from this....I really agree....I've never felt this sorted in my whole life, despite the dreadful times when the pain returns! Maybe we're the lucky ones who have been given the chance to appreciate what most people take for granted. |
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UK-Pete
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 05:29:22
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| wease - your experiences are too similar to many of us on the board to be anything other than TMS. Where are you based? The guy that sorted me out (and directed me to TMS & Sarno) is based in the North West of England. If you can, I'd suggest you see him |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 05:50:24
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Hi wease, welcome to the board.
I totally agree with everyone else here - you must STOP thinking about the "12th rib" and figuring out how it is "catching something in your back". If you've had physical check-ups and found nothing, that's mental conditioning. Dump the physical stuff, and focus on the anger you're feeling.
Are you journalling on a regular basis? I'm finding that journaling, while not a miracle cure, really helps to keep us focused on the psychological.
I've had the feeling of pain in my back when I breathe in, when I sit on the potty, when I drive, when I put on my socks (but not when I shave my legs. Go figure.) IT'S CONDITIONING, and as Dave says the challenge is to re-program our minds.
Hilary |
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wease
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 08:06:41
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I was nearly on a plane to see Dr Sarno so if there is someone over here to liaise with great! Pete- who's the person in the NE who knows about TMS?
I'm still wondering if anyone has any comments about starting up an exercise regime, as per my last email?
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UK-Pete
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 09:26:34
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The TMS chappie in the UK is not in the NE but the NW - Hale in Cheshire (South Manchester really). If you are able to get to him then can see him then do so. NB he is not a doctor, but a physio/cranial sacral bod. See the thread http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=612 for details, if you want a private discussion about this then email me via this site.
Re exercise, have you read "To be or Not to Be Pain Free"? Read his section on p156 about how he got back into marathon running - this book is a great accompaniment (sp?) to the Sarno books, as it presents a slightly different spin on things and is much more accessible. Go to http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail~PagePK~ca31dc34-28a5-46b8-9312-db9cf8178e3f~bookid~14565.aspx
You can buy the paperback, but it would take an age to get to the UK, instead invest $5 for the pdf download (it is only about £3!)and you can read it today! |
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Rudy
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 10:02:11
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Hi Again.
I'm no expert but like everything physical you have got to take it slow to begin with. Don't know how long it is since you last ran, but your body is going to hurt if you go straight back to running. That "hurt" is nothing to do with TMS but to do with new physical activity. I have started to run again and low and behold my knees started hurting again, but as I hadn't run properly in 4 years that's probably why. I'm now doing some light quad exercises to strengthen my thighs and hence protect my knees. You could even try some "power" walking first to build up confidence.
I have had to stop and start my physical activities on several occasions since October, all because I tried to do too much too soon. I would gain confidence by cycling 5 miles and then go out next day and do 10!! Not clever. Building confidence is the key, but slowly and surely.
Fred Amir's book recommends some light work with weights which again if done correctly will promote confidence. Maybe enrol with a local gym and get some personal tutition initially to get you started.
Wish you luck
R |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 10:04:46
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| I was listening to Sarno's CD this morning and he said there is no set time for recovery, and you have to quit thinking of how many days, weeks, months have gone by. He said there is no set time for recovery and everyone is different. |
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Rudy
United Kingdom
13 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2005 : 10:29:46
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UK Pete,
Thanks for your note re: Marc Sopher's book, I've just ordered the E book version. Quick and cheap when compared to the paper back version!
Actually, it is ironic since seeing Sopher's book was the reason for me finding Sarno. I was sitting in a waiting room waiting to have yet another vigorous massage when I started reading a Running magazine who were reviewing Sopher's book. I didn't have time to read any of the review since I was then called in for treatment but I made a mental note of his name given his claim to cure pain. Once home I "Googled" Sopher and read a bit about him. On the basis he's methods were based on Sarno, I thought obtaining Sarno's books maybe best initially !!
Thanks,
R
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wease
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 05:06:42
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Thanks for the Dr Sopher recommendation. I've just printed it off and will take it on holiday with me to read.
Pete- I have been to a cranio therapist and I can't say I was convinced and as I'm avoiding anything to do with a focus on the body I think I'll leave it...but thank you for the recommendation.
I'm off on hols tomorrow and believe it...a skiing holiday. Nothing like facing my fears.
Will be back on line in a weeks time. Have good weekends one and all. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 10:03:34
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Thanks UK-Pete for the link to Sopher's book. I will add it to my increasing stack of TMS related books, and hopefully, read it someday, too. I am finding it difficult to read due to a bit of impatience, no doubt a TMS equivalent. I liked the fact that Sopher is a competitve tennis player and marathon runner, which is my background also.
He calls TMS, "Mindbody Syndrome". I wonder if MBS will someday supplant TMS as the acronym for this "dis-ease". Sarno's last book, "MINDBODY PRESCRIPTION", may be a precursor to this change in nomencloture. The good doctor alludes to this when he says that he wishes he had named the disorder something else. His original work focused on back muscles, hence, "T-Myositis-S", refering to the muscles. His later discoveries, found most any part of the body can be effected as well as emotional equivalents.
Michele, you are very right that "recovery" time can vary. Many seem to expect a miracle or overnight cure. It will vary with each individuals set of circumstances. I found great relief just reading one of Sarno's books in the aisle of the bookstore. I sill have some TMS in my right "arthritic" hip, but it makes me only one step slow on the tennis courts. I am 100% "cured" for normal, daily physical activities, such as walking, sitting, sleeping, and driving. I have no pain when I perform those activities.
Rudy's points are well taken. There is a differnce between the "good" sore of physical activity and TMS pain. It only takes about two weeks to lose muscle tone due to inactivity but the corolary is also true, it only takes two weeks to regain it. Common sense, patience and maybe a hot-tub should be used when returning to physical activity. I recall from my runnig days that mileage should be only increased in small increments.
Cheers,
tt |
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UK-Pete
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 10:39:30
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| re cranio stuff, if you read the post I linked you will see I share your scepticism re anyone who focuses on the structural - the guy I recommended focuses on the pyschological, so it may be worth a go |
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UK james
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 11:59:52
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Wease
Take my advice and go and see the guy Pete talks about - 1/2 of Manchester is raving about him. He was recommended to me by Manchester United's podiatrist who had just made me carbon fibre orthotics. I saw this guy the next week and was pain free and never wore the orthotics. He does not focus on the body at all - he uses cranio therapy to help you drawout and talk about repressed feelings. I repeat - HE DOES NOT FOCUS ON THE PHYSICAL AT ALL!!! He totally cured my chronic backpain (I'd had it for yrs!) and gave me Sarnos videos to watch and encouraged me to buy MBP and Sophers book.
Take some advice and make the trip to see him.
James |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 14:06:34
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Regarding Cranio-Sacral, I agree that the psychological message of the person performing the "work" is the important thing, not the physical threrapy. I posted about my moving experience previously, in the "hands" of a C-S therapist. I had anothter C-S session, later in time, with a different C-S therapist, and did not have the same beneficial experience. The good emotional experience occurred spontaneously. During the second, I wasn't looking for anything emotional to happen, and it didn't, just a physical treatment.
The stereotype of the psychologist's couch is probably well founded. In order to perform difficult psychological/emotional work, the "patient" needs to feel that they are in a safe and comfortble place. The massage table is certainly a place we are conditioned to becoming relaxed on. If the therapist, is well versed in TMS theory and is a devotee of TMS themself, then I think the results could be rewarding. If the therapist is trying to "sell" anything else like "healing hands" or supplements, etc., then the "patient" is not doing the work, and instead is a "customer". The therapist then has a conflict of interest.
Sarno, afterall, did not start out to become a TMS Guru. He was a traditional physical injury-rehab doctor. I'm sure he could splint a broken arm if needed and would not call it TMS.
If a body-worker or a PT, saw the light, and made the switch to being a TMS guide, they could be helpful. You could get a rub and some Tupperware to boot--everyone's got to make a living. But there should be a clear demarcation between the TMS psychological work and body-work being performed, for soothing sore muscles or pleasure.
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UK-Pete
United Kingdom
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2005 : 14:51:08
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Danny (the UK guy James & I are talking about) is definitely a "medic that has seen the light"
He explained that he had got into the whole TMS/Emotional linkage stuff due to increasing scepticism about the success of normal practice. Also remember that neither James nor I knew about Sarno & TMS before we went to see Danny - he is an evangelist of the TMS theory (wonder if I should get commission for every new patient )
By the way TT - in Sopher's book I seem to remember that he called TMS "The Mindbody Syndrome" and said he had discussed and agreed with Sarno that this is what TMS should stand for in the future |
Edited by - UK-Pete on 01/28/2005 14:54:14 |
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