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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
 Posted - 03/29/2011 : 15:56:07
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| Do you find that you go through periods of relative quiet and periods of raging TMS? This certainly seems to be the case with me at the moment. Unrelenting! Some things are more troubling than others; some symptoms really get my attention and others, not so much. Once again, FEAR is the fuel. Even though I am quite sure current symptom is tms (an old pf that appears every now and then despite what I do or don't do), or at least made worse by tms, fear of it keeps me from challenging it much. Ironically, this pf does not bother me at all when running barefoot or with minimalist shoes. It started this time after wearing regular running shoes for several runs. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 16:33:16
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I was about to start a thread on the sometimes crushing loneliness of battling TMS. You can be PRETTY sure, ALMOST sure, VIRTUALLY sure, but there are as ever in life, no guarantees. This is the crux of the fear, and the reason one feels so damn alone in it in my opinion.
It's crucial I think, to identify patterns. Many of us have been at this for years, and it becomes easier over time to realize that ABC symptom is in all its particulars just about identical with XYZ symptom.
For me, it's usually off and on aching/throbbing type pain that seems to occur more often at certain times, and in certain places, and under certain conditions (usually of fear/stress). When something fits these criteria it's almost always TMS.
But every new symptom is a test of courage and faith..
Like I said...lonely.
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 21:33:24
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| Yes Art, and added to the agony of it is the dilemma of trying to decide if it is tms or real injury. I usually try to hedge my bets. Today, after trying to ignore it for several days because it (pf) was so mild (but scary), I decided to try the tennis ball massage. Unfortunately, I might have been too rough on it because now it's worse than before, even after four ibuprofen. I wish I had left it alone. Where before, I was fairly confident of a tms component, at least, now I'm back to thinking more physical. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 21:34:37
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| Yes Art, and added to the agony of it is the dilemma of trying to decide if it is tms or real injury. I usually try to hedge my bets. Today, after trying to ignore it for several days because it (pf) was so mild (but scary), I decided to try the tennis ball massage. Unfortunately, I might have been too rough on it because now it's worse than before, even after four ibuprofen. I wish I had left it alone. Where before, I was fairly confident of a tms component, at least, now I'm back to thinking more physical. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 23:15:24
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Yeah I can really relate to that.....I get really sore sometimes and then I get random symptoms......It doesn't really worry me these days. I put everything down to TMS now......I give it space and don't focus on the issue. I don't resist it...just allow it.
Recently I've had problems with my ear, foot and heart.....I got my heart checked out, he said he didn't think it's anything bad so I left it at that. After a few months I find ALL issues go away.....I just don't buy into them. It definitely comes in waves though.
D |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 04:51:35
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wrld, that's just typical tms/hypochondria b.s. You could not make that worse with a home tennis ball massage. Your marathoner's body is tough as tough can be,
Think patterns and constantly give yourself encouraging TMS self talk. Look at how your fear and worry cycles are precisely the same from symptom to symptom, Realize that you're just recreating the same emotional dynamic over and over again, for years on end,
Simple formula
Reduction in fear=Reduction in pain |
Edited by - art on 03/30/2011 04:52:44 |
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Goodney
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 13:59:54
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| Art, I couldn't agree more. It really is the fear that fuels so much of the pain and negativity in our lives. I keep recalling the Buddha talking about the "Second Arrow". The first arrow is the twinge, or burning, or stinging, tightening, spasm, etc. That bodily sensation we cannot control. However, our reaction of fear or aversion or other negative emotions, that is the second arrow, and whether that also pierces us is entirely up to us. When I get a bodily sensation that is potentially frightening (and let's face it, as a person suffering with TMS what bodily sensation isn't?), I immediately think of the second arrow. It helps arrest the fear reaction in a lot of cases. Even if I have already reacted emotionally with fear, thinking of the second arrow helps me to recognize the reaction and dissipate the fear. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 14:23:14
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I like that imagery quite a lot G. It's the second (and 3rd and 4th) arrow that does the real damage. Laughing at the pain is a good way to deflect that second arrow. Sometimes I actually tighten my stomach muscles. It sounds stressful and counterproductive, but for me it works to short circuit that spirit shriveling fear and worry response that is so destructive to our minds and bodies...
I've gradually come to the realization that we actually cling to our fear as a kind of primitive defense. We're in some sense afraid not to be afraid, as if we'll be punished for it... |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 15:34:18
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Great posts, Art & Goodney. I like your formula Art, "reduction in fear = reduction in pain."
I'm trying to be more mindful today of how my catastrophic thoughts lead inevitibly to fear. These thoughts are so compelling that it's like a drug. The typical scenario: pf symptom. That's strange, I didn't do anything to bring that on. Let me think back to past bouts with this. What did I do or not do to bring it on then? It feels a little worse now that I'm focusing on it. Oh no, I remember how long it took to heal last time. Summer is coming up and I really want to get back into serious running now that my hip injury is healed. I was thinking about another marathon. Oh no, I can just see it; I'll have to take a week off for every day I am able to run! It just seems like one thing after another. I can't take this!
Eventually, all I can think of is doom and gloom--about everything, not just pf. At this point, trying to change the channel is near impossible and the only thing to do is wait for it to pass.
Of course, there is more than just tms going on here. Chronic unproductive worry for one thing. But fear, and then fear of fear, keeps the whole thing going. |
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Goodney
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 20:32:42
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| It is amazing when I read about the way you all think and feel, because I get trapped in EXACTLY the same negative thinking and feeling. I always thought I was crazy and all alone, and I'm glad I'm neither -- unless of course we're all crazy -- which I sincerely doubt. My terrible thoughts and feelings are almost like an addiction I can't kick, especially when I am stressed. My negative thinking and fears are like a downward spiral that keep getting worse and worse. I think it is an attempt to protect myself by thinking of the worst and trying to prepare for it. I call this kind of thinking "catastrophizing". |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 21:59:19
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Goodney, the way you describe the arrow is so similar to the mechanisms of anxiety and panic. I used to have pretty severe panic attacks. Back then, a good 40 years ago, one of the only people who wrote about this was Claire Weeks. She called the first pang of anxiety "first fear".
It took me some time, after reading probably 45 books on anxiety disorder, to learn how to not let the first adrenalin rush scare me and allow it to escalate into a panic attack. I got to the point where I could just say "Oh, there you are" which isn't always easy if you're in the street and feel like you're going to be dizzy and the ground is moving...but I really learned to say "Hello, go away, you're not going to ruin my time" and not let a stupid rush of adrenalin ruin my life.
As I read Schubiner's book and listen to the CD that comes with it, he says the same thing, to talk to your subconscious mind and tell the pain (in this case, pain, not anxiety) to just go away, leave us alone. The more I think about this, it is just so similar...it's all fear, or voiding something, or blocking something. I don't know if I will ever figure it out but I will say that every book and every cognitive therapist I saw for anxiety felt it wasn't necessary to know the "whys".
I have spent my whole life trying to figure out why I am hypochondriacal (goes back to age 9 and probably before) and I don't think I will ever know. I think the behavioral approach is our way out with TMS. Schubiner's book calls for more self-analysis that what I've read from Sarno and I'll see how it goes. But back to your original point...I am trying SO hard to not let every winge ruin my day. I was having a perfectly good time in a department store today when I got a twinge of pain and had catastrophic thoughts. I get so angry at myself, it makes me totally lose any desire to continue having fun. I left the store after 5 minutes. I was fine when I got home. Why do we do this to ourselves, why can't we allow ourselves to have a good time? This keeps happening to me. At a nightclub, a party, then I leave and am crying in the street, talking to myself and saying "Why, why? Am I crazy? Why can't I just BE, why can't I just live like other people and not start thinking about a pain in the middle of having a good time?"
Does this happen to other people here, when they're out with friends? Do you have any idea why? I try to not analyze this but part of me needs to understand this, I feel, in order to get well. |
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healingback
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 23:54:50
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Susan, I can certainly relate to pain coming on with social occasions. I find that I can be fine for mowt of the day then ill plan to go shopping, and within 20 mins my back will start hurting, obviously the cycle plays out the back hurts, I get upset because I just want to be able to enjoy myself without pain, then I focus on the pain, then I have to go home. I find that I'm better going out with my boyfriend as he getsbthe whole tms thing and knows instinctively when I'm in pain and have to rest. I find that even when I plan an social occasion with friends the pain will come on days before, and ill invariably cancel... which I know isn't the best thing but I find it all to much sometimes. I guess its the fear of will they understand if I need to sit down, will there be chsirs availiable etc....
This to shall pass.... |
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Forfeet
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 01:45:53
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All,
This is a great topic. I can't say that social occasions are preceded by pain but I sure can relate to the fear. Although my most recent pain distracted me to the point that I could not concentrate much on what I was browsing through in a book store.
This week, I had a new pain in my knee (or maybe a revisit from one I had forgotten about) and it scared me to the point that I looked on the web to see if I could figure out what it supposedly is (although I'm dealing with it as TMS). I have been avoiding medical web sites for months. While I'm in a different place than I was a few months ago in that no matter what I read, I still don't think it is serious, I'm still mad at myself for doing it.
Nothing traumatic happened, although I work at a physically demanding job and I always fear I'm getting to old to do it-bad thinking I know and I fight it all the time.I am grateful to this site and Sarno for normalizing some knee pains that are often exagerrated by the medical community that doesn't acknowledge TMS.
A couple of months it was another pain in my right toe and ball, later followed by the left that had me worried. Before that, something else=anyway, you get the idea. Lately, I have been yelling and raging at God and my body about these pains and telling my body that I won't let it stop me and I know it is not serious. I do wonder if it is time to try a kinder and gentler approach. Anyone have better success with one over the other?
The loneliness mentioned by Art struck a chord. I feel very lonely in that I don't have anyone in my circle who I can talk to about this, although I'm grateful for this site. I really believe face to face support would be helpful for me. It is hard when most people see everything as structural and are very suspicious of TMS or mind body issues. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 06:52:40
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quote:
Originally posted by susan828
Why can't I just BE, why can't I just live like other people and not start thinking about a pain in the middle of having a good time?"
Does this happen to other people here, when they're out with friends? Do you have any idea why? I try to not analyze this but part of me needs to understand this, I feel, in order to get well.
Good questions. I'm going to guess for me that it is because of some self-loathing, self-esteem issues that have reared with the onset of this worst TMS problem. Going out with friends, etc., is an enjoyable act, and somehow, deep down perhaps I think I don't deserve to have this pleasure anymore.
Don't have any answers, except that I really try to focus on the conversation at hand and not be passive, figuring this will bring me more into the present and out of the land of "What if" or the land of "Second Fear".
My guess is that if we were all put into a real "fight or flight" situation, say our cities were being bombed or under siege,and if it were prolonged, that our pain would disappear for good. If we survived. |
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Goodney
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 06:59:36
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| This really is a good topic. It's almost as if we can't for some reason allow ourselves to be carefree, and truly at ease. I can't remember the last time I simply got out of bed without feeling burdened, and had a day of ease. Worries, stress, anxiety, pain, all seem to weigh me down. I envy those who bounce out of bed and can't wait to face what the day will bring. Frankly, I dread it. I am thankful for this forum; it allows me to know I am not alone. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 07:12:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Goodney
I envy those who bounce out of bed and can't wait to face what the day will bring. Frankly, I dread it. I am thankful for this forum; it allows me to know I am not alone.
I think that some others who have beaten their problems have pointed out that acceptance of the pain is needed, a conscious reduction of stressors, and, maybe the most important, a focusing of the brain onto something positive: a law of attraction type of thing. Some will translate that into a higher power carrying the burden; others have a different spin. Either way, it allows the focus to be on something larger than our pain. I think that is the crux of it.
I guess Sarno says the same thing only differently: if you believe you will have pain when doing something, you will. Out with friends, then boom, there it is.
The forums are a mixed blessing. We know we are not alone, but can too much participation keep us where our subconscious wants us to be?
Should we really get stars for moaning about our problems on here? |
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GMack
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 08:16:31
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| Yes for me the fear/anxiety is worse than the pain. It's like the TMS gremlin is saying "if I can't get your attention with pain, I'll scare the $#*@ out of you!" I can be feeling great puttering around the house, then as soon as my wife says "hey let's go out to dinner" or somewhere away from my comfort zone, I will get a headache, back spasm, dizziness, or some other sudden symptom. I'll tell my brain to shut up, shrug it off and force myself to go out, but I won't enjoy the experience completely because I can't shake the fear that something bad might happen. Very frustrating. |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 08:38:34
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Back2It, well, not stars but I think it is such a relief to find people who finally understand exactly what we're going through. To others, this sounds crazy. They just don't understand this whole phenomenon.
It's reassuring to me to hear my thoughts echoed in various ways but all the same. GMack, you mentioned the term comfort zone. Lately with me, my comfort zone is (except for when I am at work) the computer. I have trouble doing anything creative, all the things I used to do. I have to force myself to play my musical instruments and other hobbies. Has this happened to anyone else? I just figure, why bother, I can't enjoy anything. Logically, I know this is ridiculous. I'm just stunted..stopped by something. Myself. And don't understand it. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:53:55
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Susan,
I find that when I feel contented enough, I'm much more eager to write, or play the piano,
or even read a big fat novel.. When I'm full of fear and anxiety or depression, I don't want to do anything but stew in my own juices. In some sense, it's almost as if I'm feeling unworthy to do the things that make me happy... |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 12:16:13
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Thanks for that reply, Art. I see a lot of myself if your posts and I always hope that you will write. As I do Schubiner's book, I write every day. That's how it's laid out and it's a lot like being in therapy except you have your own answers. It's bringing out a lot of my issues that I haven't talked about to anyone who really understands. I have always kept a diary so I've written my thoughts down but now I am forced to do it daily.
Regarding piano, I feel not unworthy but I feel that who is going to hear me but myself. I have no mate at this time and my Dad was my biggest fan and encouraged me to play (he was a pianist). I know I should learn just for myself..and the truth is that when I go to a party, I bring life into it. I'm good. So one of my issues is losing my father. I haven't been the same since. We connected so deeply through music. I learn a new piece now, master it and feel, who can I show this to, who will appreciate it like he did?
In reference to what you just said though, the unworthy feeling comes when the health anxiety kicks in and the pain and then I say to myself why bother to have fun. I guess that's the unworthy part. I feel like such a loser for not being able to get a grip on this. I'm smart, I was in the counseling profession myself for years...I'm talented musically, I have so much going for me but when this crap hits, I feel like I'm just so nuts. And the loneliness..you are lucky you have a wife. I can't see how any man would put up with this. When I get like this, I want to be alone. I don't want to talk...how can I when I think I have appendicitis or some other God forsaken thing half the time?
I have had many men in my life, most of my life, but none understood. They tolerated it and much of the time I didn't see them on the days things were bad, but could never tell them what's wrong for fear of losing them. So I'd make up excuses. I wish I could find someone with whom I can be real. Like all of us, we are NOT tms, we're sensitive, good individuals and this is something that grabbed us. I hope you will don't mind the length of many of my posts but it helps me to write and I hope that maybe someone reading this sees themselves in it and we can help each other.
When you mention the times you feel contented..yes..if you saw me when I am feeling good, it's such a contrast. Nobody would know what goes on underneath at other times. I'm very upbeat, funny, spunky, the life of the party. Until that stupid flash of anxiety comes over me from a twinge of pain, at which time I go into the bathroom, close the door and say "WHY? Why is this happening again? Why can't I change?" and just get so bummed out and disappointed in myself that I can't conquer it. |
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PTosh
Portugal
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:34:57
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quote:
Why can't I just BE, why can't I just live like other people and not start thinking about a pain in the middle of having a good time?"
I rarely can have a moment of pure enjoyment, without being disturbed with a TMS distraction. When a social relation is going well, I tend to screw it up. When I'm having fun playing some computer game, pain tends to come (even though I don't get any of this pain if I'm doing anything else on the pc). When I think about it, there are very few moments where I have pleasure, I'm like Dr. House lol.
I thought a lot about this strange situation. The conclusion I got is that I get insecure when something is going well, and I'm getting happy for it. I fear something will screw it up, and as we all know, TMS acts when there is an insecurity. An insecurity is a hole left by the conscious, and therefore it's easily exploited by the unconscious to serve its purpose (hide unconscious emotions), because the conscious is basically letting it happen.
quote:
Good questions. I'm going to guess for me that it is because of some self-loathing, self-esteem issues that have reared with the onset of this worst TMS problem. Going out with friends, etc., is an enjoyable act, and somehow, deep down perhaps I think I don't deserve to have this pleasure anymore.
I also thought that before, that deep down I thought I didn't deserve to be happy. But pain caused by TMS isn't caused because we think we deserve to get it, it's caused because the unconscious is just doing its job. The same happens with this situation: it's not caused by self-destructive thoughts, it's caused because of the unconscious.
quote:
I have trouble doing anything creative, all the things I used to do. I have to force myself to play my musical instruments and other hobbies. Has this happened to anyone else? I just figure, why bother, I can't enjoy anything. Logically, I know this is ridiculous. I'm just stunted..stopped by something. Myself. And don't understand it.
I'm not sure if this is your problem, but when I study I get anxious (although I'm getting better now), even when I'm studying things I like. I get to the point of doubting if I like those things I'm studying, because of the anxiety I get when I'm studying them.
I think the key points to resolve TMS is not on behaviour psychology, that just makes TMS go from one distraction to another . The key things are reducing supressed feelings, reducing the importance we give to the distractions (if you gave no importance to a distraction, it wouldn't be distracting you and so it would stop because it wouldn't be doing its job), and if you have money and time, work on your unconscious issues with a psychoanalyst. I'm trying to a find a loophole in TMS theory to have another way of getting better, but right now I only know of these... |
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Raging TMS
