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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
 Posted - 02/01/2005 : 20:51:36
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Does anyone know if Sarno speaks publically, say at like a seminar or convention or whatever you would call it. I would just love to see if he did and arrange to get a whole bunch of us on the TMS forum to meet up in one location for a weekend of Dr. Sarno. How cool would that be? I would love to see all of my fellow forum members face to face and listening to the good doctor in person might just be the thing we all need. Just curious. I know he does public speaking but maybe that is primarily in New York. Any chance he'd come to L.A.? (I'm still scared to get on a plane...)
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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 06:06:10
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Thanks Laura for the nice comments. Actually my chiro is in Arizona. His name is Dr. Phillips. He uses the Morton system of health which treats the whole body not just symptoms. I think it is the Morton system. I have a flyer somewhere. When I find it I will post the correct system and how to find a chiro that uses this system.
You can find out more about EFT (emotional freedom techique) at Dr.Mercola's web site and also at www.emofree.com My chiro really believes in using this method to help deprogram the mind..
See ya,
Elise
Elise8 |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 10:33:43
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I'm reading all these posts with a lot of interest.
It's hard to explain how I feel after reading them. I'll try to explain as best I can, and I hope I don't offend anyone.
On the one hand, it is really, really good to connect with others about a very difficult symptom. I agree with everyone here that it's hard as hell to stop thinking about something which feels as if it's occuring in the very thing you think with - i.e. the brain! It's a nasty symptom, for sure.
On the other hand, I think we must resist the temptation to label ourselves by our symptoms, because we MUST stay focused on taking our attention off our symptoms - as difficult as that is. I have a feeling we could talk for hours about similarities we share or don't share, what our mothers did or didn't do, abuse we faced or didn't face - and at the end of it all, where would we be? It might make for a fascinating conversation - I for one will happily talk about myself all night - but I'm not sure how much further it would advance us all along the road to healing.
We share a difficult and distracting symptom, no doubt. But we're also all very different, from different homes and backgrounds, and it's up to each one of us to work on our rage individually (with support from each other, of course). The more we allow these symptoms to upset us, the longer they'll persisit.
Elise, what you say about your chiropractor's viewpoint is interesting. But I for one don't buy it or find it terribly helpful - I'd argue, in fact, that it's quite unhelpful. Here's the thing: I've decided to buy into Sarno 100%, to do the anger work every day and to balance that with positive visualization stuff and, when I can, meditation. And granted, I've not had good experience with chiropractors so perhaps I'm a bit biased, but Sarno specifically says if you have TMS, you MUST stop all other forms of treatment. So the question comes down to: either you (we) think you have TMS or you don't. And if you think you (we) have TMS then I'd suggest that there is a strong argument for quitting the chiropractor. The trouble is that the chiro talking about "de-programming the mind" (whatever that means in chiro terms), and the fact that it's very difficult to do so, actually programs our minds to think that a) this is going to take a very long time and b) we need someone to "do some work on us" again that will make us better. This is NOT what we need (although it might be exactly what the chiropractor needs!) In fact, I see very little difference between this and a TMS sufferer with back pain bsically agreeing with Sarno's theory, but continuing to visit a physical therapist.
I've tried chiropractic treatment for dizziness. After about four treatments, I decided the guy was full of ****. Yeah, he assured me that he treated people for dizziness all the time, and with a little manipulation I'd be feeling right as rain in no time. Um, I don't think so, dude. I learned, yet again, that there are ALWAYS people out there who promise that they have the magical cure. What I love about Sarno - what makes him so different to the many conventional and alternative healers I've seen over the years - is that he genuinely EMPOWERS patients. We "cure" ourselves.
ETA - Laura, I know this sounds obvious, but seriously, get on a plane soon. I've travelled all over the world with dizziness, and I can promise you that your symptoms have nothing to do with flying! They may be triggered by the anxiety of flying and the fact that your first attack was after a trip, but still - it could be time to start thinking about laying this particular ghost to rest. |
Edited by - Hilary on 02/02/2005 10:42:51 |
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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 11:43:17
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Hilary,
I couldn't agree with you more. The most important thing is for us is to learn to deal with repressed anger. I know I have a problem getting in touch with my anger. Some months ago I was being tail-gaited be another driver. He was riding my bumper for maybe a quarter mile or so. It pissed me off. So I slowed down to a stop about 100 feet short of the upcoming traffic light with this guy right on me. Anticipating a confrontation, I put my car in park and flung my car door open to find this guy approaching me. I was more than angry. I really wanted him to start with me so I could tear into him. I am 6'1" and weigh 210lbs. I shouted at this guy in such a crazy and frightening voice that he backed down immediately. I was shaking and couldn't even hold my voice steady. I got back into my car and sped off, all the while feeling like someone pumped me with enough adrenaline to lift a house off it's foundation. Well, this "little" episode really bothered me. I hardly get angry at all, yet this was an explosion. The next time at therapy I told the event as it happened to my therapist in a rather intellectual way. He asked me to act out, to the best of my ability, what happened. He wanted me to show him the rage that I expressed. I simply couldn't. I sat there for maybe 5 minutes totally quite wondering why I couldn't do this relatively simple act.
I am writing about this because I know that this anger and rage is at the source of my dizziness. However, I am still dizzy. But Sarno makes it abundantly clear that knowledge is the cure. He doesn't say that one must "work out" his or her issues to be cured. Just the knowing of the source is enough...well, most of the time. I am not sure, but my hunch is that people who suffer from TMS dizziness may have a different kind of problem then, let's say, someone who suffers from chronic back pain. Of course, in both people there is an underlying, redirection of attention away from "bad" or "unwanted" feelings, but the nature or "level" of those feelings may be qualitatively different. This is what I am wondering about. I may simply be way off. Because if Dr. Sarno successfully treated people with dizziness as he did with back pain, for instance, then I would be wrong (or at least to some extent). All I see here on the boards, is a huge number of people with dizziness who at the same time recognize TMS.
Dave
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 13:12:36
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Hilary,
I enjoyed reading your post. I agree with everything you said. I was promised "magical cures" by two different chiropractors. The one guy told me my hips were out of alignment and that as soon as we could get them to stay in place and not go back "out" then my vertigo would go away. That was the biggest crock of crap I've ever heard. The problem for me was, a friend of mine who I respect very much assured me he was a good guy and wouldn't steer me wrong. I trusted my friend and not my own instinct. After about six months and no changes, I stopped going. He truly was a "quackopractor"!!!!
I think that dizziness is such a scary thing that when you are going through chronic dizziness, on a daily basis, you reach a point where you become so desperate you will look anywhere for a cure. When I found the doctor in Colorado, I was seriously thinking about finding a way to get there and finding a way to come up with the cash so I could go and be "cured." I never did. Instead, I saw Dr. David Schechter, began journaling, listened to the CD's, and found this website. I have improved tremendously and I never stepped foot in Dr. Kaufman's office.
I do understand what you're saying about Dr. Sarno and doing the work yourself versus going to say a chiropractor or physical therapist, etc. But, at the same time, I have heard about a lot of people who have been cured (maybe placebo, I don't know) through methods like the one Elise spoke of. And, like I said, sometimes we get so desperate we are willing to try anything. If I'm understanding what Elise is saying, it sounds like her chiro works to bring forth the repressed emotions. I've never dealt with a chiropractor who did that so I find it intriguing. Who am I to say if it works or not, since I've never tried it.
Also, you are so right about getting on the plane. I know I just need to do it already, but that will have to take place with baby steps. I'm going to try a short trip first, and it's going to be to somewhere that I would actually like to go. My husband would just love to take our family to Maui so who knows.
Dave -
I know it appears that most of the people on here just talk about our TMS and the fact that we are dizzy and there aren't a lot of success stories. I agree. However, Carol was able to cure herself so fortunately we have her success story to think about. I also think some of us have made great progress. I, for one, am much better off since I've been "doing the work" than I was say a year ago. The one thing we do all have in common is dealing with our repressed anger, I sure agree with that. Your theory about the level of repressed anger is something I, too, have thought about as well. I mean, do we just have mountains and mountains of repressed anger and rage that is so severe it literally "makes our heads spin." I wish we all knew the answer, that's for sure.
Thanks for your post. I enjoy reading everybody's ideas and getting everyone's input.
Laura
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 18:07:34
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I need to stress that, for me, the key to beating the dizzies was my belief that it was not caused by anything physical. Once I was VERY certain of that the symptoms just gradually faded away. It was not quick, and it was not easy, but it was very definate. I had never heard of Sarno at that point, and had not yet experienced my first back pain. (note that I am both a former dizzy and a current back pain TMSer)
What I basically did was to focus my attention on what I could do instead of what I couldn't. For the first few months of my dizzies I could not walk without holding onto a wall or a cane. In order to walk a straight line I had to focus very determinedly on something ahead of me and at eye level. Looking at the ground made it much worse. I also had to concentrate on keeping my head still and as level as possible. I spent a lot of time lying down. I also spent a lot of time practicing walking walking in a safe place (my living room), without holding onto anything. At first all I could do was a couple steps, but it got better as I persisted.
I wasn't able to walk on uneven ground, or look at moving water, without provoking a spinning attack. I was dizzy to some extent most of the time, but the spinning was sporadic thank goodness. If it was all the time I wouldn't have been able to function. I am trying hard to remember just what I did, and will post more as I remember more.
I knew that the original attack was triggered by a conflict with my boss, so I thought a lot about our relationship and what I could do to improve it without compromising my principles. Somehow I was doing the right thing without realizing it. I had the dizzies off and on for four years, but all the time it was gradually losing it's hold on me. By the end I was dismissing it just as I did when I experienced it recently.
I really think that the key, in addition to doing "the work", is to defeat the fear and be absolutely certain that there is NOTHING WRONG with your brain and that you will defeat this!!!!!!!
BTW, since I started posting about the dizzies my back pain has been gradually decreasing. I think I have finally taken my own advice and internalized that there is nothing wrong with my back, just as I knew that there was nothing wrong with my brain. They are both perfectly normal and healthy.
Bye for now. I have to go watch Lost, my favorite TV show.
Carol |
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Ginag
51 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 18:30:47
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Hi All,
I've been MIA for a couple of days with our mutual friend, Dizziness. The good thing is -- I know exactly what triggered it. The bad thing is -- knowing about the rage isn't enough to prevent the dizziness from reoccurring. So Dave, I know exactly where you're coming from. It's really quite frustrating to truly acknowledge and believe the validity of what Dr. Sarno says, and yet not be able to banish the dizzies once and for all. Like others in our forum, I would also rather have another form of TMS instead of the dizzies. And like you, Dave, I wonder what Dr. Sarno's success level is with people who suffer with dizziness. When I first started suffering and didn't know about Dr. Sarno, I had joined the Vestibular Disorder Associaion. There is a multitude of people out there who suffer like us, have been to tons of doctors without success, and are experiencing various levels of diability. They are all desparate for a cure. However, they all differ from us in that they all believe it is a physical problem. A lot of them just seem to get progressively worse with time. The fear is paralyzing. So although I still suffer, at least believing in Dr. Sarno has removed the fear for me which, in turn, has improved my condition. For now, it seems like I am at a standstill but I keep plugging away and hope for future success.
Gina |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 20:57:37
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Thank you, Carol. You are the one person on this whole freakin website that has actually used the Sarno method and cured the dizzies. In Andrew Weil's book, Spontaneous Healing, he talks about people like yourself. It is important to hear stories like yours to keep reminding ourselves that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks and I personally look forward to hearing more of your words of wisdom as they are posted here. Enjoy your show!
Laura
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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2005 : 08:35:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ginag
Hi All,
I've been MIA for a couple of days with our mutual friend, Dizziness. The good thing is -- I know exactly what triggered it. The bad thing is -- knowing about the rage isn't enough to prevent the dizziness from reoccurring. So Dave, I know exactly where you're coming from. It's really quite frustrating to truly acknowledge and believe the validity of what Dr. Sarno says, and yet not be able to banish the dizzies once and for all. Like others in our forum, I would also rather have another form of TMS instead of the dizzies. And like you, Dave, I wonder what Dr. Sarno's success level is with people who suffer with dizziness. When I first started suffering and didn't know about Dr. Sarno, I had joined the Vestibular Disorder Associaion. There is a multitude of people out there who suffer like us, have been to tons of doctors without success, and are experiencing various levels of diability. They are all desparate for a cure. However, they all differ from us in that they all believe it is a physical problem. A lot of them just seem to get progressively worse with time. The fear is paralyzing. So although I still suffer, at least believing in Dr. Sarno has removed the fear for me which, in turn, has improved my condition. For now, it seems like I am at a standstill but I keep plugging away and hope for future success.
Gina
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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2005 : 08:41:03
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I was curious about how the dizzies and other TMS sufferers would answer the following questions. The questions are presented here in the order that they came to me. Maybe this will get us somewhere, maybe it won’t. I am really just going with a hunch here.
Answer questions on a scale of 1-10 (when applicable).
What TMS symptom(s) do you have?
How important is it for you to be a good person? Do you think that you care about being a “good” person more than most people?
What level of “generalized” guilt do you feel? (I mean not for any specific event or character trait)
Do you feel like you are a bad person?
Do you feel like you are “in-tune” with your emotions and others?
Are you afraid or concerned with death?
How intelligent would you “rate” yourself?
Do you have any phobias? If so, what are they?
(Were you or) Do you have any suspicions of being raped, molested or traumatized by an adult during your early youth?
Were (are) you a good student in school (elementary, high, college, etc.)?
In your own words, what quality do you feel separates you from most other people?
Do (did) you have a good relationship with your parents? If not, are you able to overtly express anger or even hatred towards your parents?
Do you remember your dreams? If so, do you have disturbing or troubling dreams, nightmares or night terrors? How frequently?
Do you feel like you have “purpose” in life and would you consider yourself content or happy?
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2005 : 11:09:43
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Hi, Dave-
I'm responding to your questionnaire, which I think is a wonderful idea. So, here goes:
What TMS symptoms do you have? Dizziness, stomach distress (pain, cramps, bloating), intermittent back pain, TMJ symptoms, headaches, burning tongue and mouth disorders, and recurrent eye problems including redness, itching, and burning.
How important is it for you to be a good person? Do you think that you care about being a "good" person more than more people? It is very important to be seen as a good person. I'm sure I do care more about being a good person than most people. Many of the people I know don't give a hoot.
What level of generalized guilt do you feel? I feel guilt about everything. I feel responsible for everyone and every situation and if it doesn't go well, I feel guilt. I feel guilt for not getting involved in my daughter's mess up school situation, even though I know by doing so she will be angry at me. I feel guilt that my house isn't completely organized to my husband's liking. Guilt, guilt, guilt. I live with constant guilt!
Do you feel like you are a bad person? Sometimes. But mostly I think I'm a good person who is misunderstood.
Do you feel like you "in tune" with your emotions and others? Most definitely, to a fault.
Are you afraid or concerned with death? No, not really. It's not something I give much thought.
How intelligent would you "rate" yourself? I think I'm pretty intelligent. I surely don't think I'm stupid. I read, I'm informed, and I think I'm an intelligent person. Hard to believe when you consider I was called "dummy" and "stupid" for so many years as a kid!
Do you have any phobias? If so what are they? Oh, yeah, I sure do. I'm claustrophic, big time. Can't stand being in elevators, don't do many of the rides at amusement parks, etc. Also phobic of taking medication or being "put under" or drugged, or having to undergo medical procedures. Have been dental phobic but I'm overcoming that by facing it and just doing it. My first real panic attack happened when I was sick and had too much coffee, cold medication, etc., and ended up in E.R. thinking I was having a heart attack. Scary!
(Were you or) Do you have any suspicions of being raped, molested, or traumatized by an adult during your early youth? Oh, yes. I was molested by some weird guy in the neighborhood who I had to sit in court and testify against when I was 8. I was also molested by a family member, which I did not fully remember until around the birth of my first child. I also have this feeling I was molested by someone else in my family but can't quite say that I was or wasn't. Just a feeling, no actual memory.
Were (are) you a good student in school (elementary, high, college, etc.)? No, not really. I had no self-confidence and I was not much of a scholar. One time I tried to get on the honor roll and got all A's and one B. One time, that's it, just to prove it to myself that I actually had a brain. I dropped out of college when I moved to California, so that I could start a job as a medical transcriptionist and earn some money to help support my husband (then fiance) and myself.
In your own words, what quality do you feel separates you from other people? Awareness/Intuitiveness. I think most people just get through their day and don't think about things too much but I am aware of every little thing and I am pretty intuitive about people and myself.
Do (did) you have a good relationship with your parents? If not, are you able to overtly express anger or even hatred towards your parents? No, I did not have a good relationship. I grew up in a home where the motto was "Children should be seen and not heard." Now, as an adult, I still feel like I'm a scared, little kid when I need to talk to them about anything that is bothering me. And they rarely ever "get it." when I have to spend time with them, I just "get through it" and tolerate them. It's really hard now because my children see how awful they are.
Do you remember your dreams? If so, do you have disturbing or troubling dreams, nightmares or night terrors? How frequently? Yes, I do remember my dreams. I wake from them and go over them in my mind. I have troubling dreams or nightmares, sometimes in spurts. Like, this last week has been really difficult from an emotional standpoint and I've noticed I have been having a lot of troubling dreams and one or two nightmares. Many of my dreams center around my daughters being young (obviously my fear that they are growing up and I'm losing them).
Do you feel like you have "purpose" in life and would you consider yourself content or happy? I feel like I do have purpose in life, especially as the mother of two needy adolescent girls. I'd like to find another purpose for myself, in the role of helping others outside my home. I truly enjoy helping people. I would like to find some way of helping others and having a purpose in life before my kids are both out of the house and I'm sitting here staring at the walls going "What do I do now?" I don't know if I'd consider myself content as I'm very restless and I'm a worrier. I don't feel a sense of inner peace at all. My body is filled with worry, fears, and turmoil. I'm not unhappy but I wouldn't say I'm particularly happy right now. I think happiness comes with that sense of inner peace and tranquility that I haven't had in a long time.
Well, I hope this helps. I suppose you will take all of our responses and try to come up with a common link. I may give you a call as I am curious to see where this leads. Thanks for all that you are doing.
Laura
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 06:43:12
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Laura and Dave, I just wanted to add a couple of things to my post:
1) I want you to know that I don't dismiss this problem lightly, and I know exactly how depressing and frustrating it is to be dizzy. There are days when I am so full of rage simply at the fact that I'm been continuously dizzy for over 10 years. It doesn't make sense to me, and I resent it horribly. I feel utterly furious that I've had to put up with this **** for such a long time.
By the way, does that count as focusing on the anger, or the symptom?
2) Relaxation of the face, head, jaw, neck and shoulder areas really helps. I believe that dizzy people carry vast amounts of tension in these areas. When I'm particularly dizzy, I relax, focussing bit by bit on... the top of my head and my scalp....my forehead, especially the "worried" bit between my eyebrows....my ears...my cheeks....my jaw....the back of my head....the back of my neck...down to my shoulders. As I relax each muscle group, I breathe really deeply from my stomach, and visualize each area really relaxing. I'm usually quite amazed at how tense all these muscles are!
Hilary |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2005 : 20:33:10
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Thanks, Hilary, for your post. It sure is frustrating, I know. I've been doing pretty well until today. Our family went to a bar mitzvah and we had to be there at 9:30 this morning. It was a lot of rushing around to get all four of us ready to leave the house at 9:00 a.m. I was driving (I like driving so I offered) and somebody tried to cut me off and I almost flipped out in the car. My husband said "Whoa! Relax, man, you seem like you've had about three cups of coffee." I was pretty amped up and had zero coffee, only a bowl of oatmeal. I'm really wound up tight this week with all that's been going on. My stomach feels like someone poured acid down it and the cramping and pain won't let up.
So, we get to this bar mitzvah and we're a half hour late and next thing I know, I'm dizzy. I'm standing there feeling really dizzy and anxious all at once. I whispered in my husband's ear and told him I was feeling dizzy and he said "That's no surprise. You seemed really stressed in the car." I really saw a correlation to my anxiety level and the dizzy feeling today, more than ever.
Now, I'm home and trying to relax. My stomach still hurts like heck but I'm not feeling the dizzy sensation.
I feel for you, Hilary. Ten years is a long time to feel like this. I'm going on three years and I'm so darn sick of it I'd sever my limb if it would make it go away!
I hope everyone has a nice weekend. Take time out to watch the super bowl game and relax. It will be a nice distraction from the dizzies. Nothing like those commercials to get your mind off how bad you're feeling.
Laura
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Dizzy? I've been for 20 years! Enough.
