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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
 Posted - 01/24/2005 : 08:03:57
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Hello all.
Somehow even though I do not know one of you personally, I feel like I know all you intimately. I just spent the last 3 weeks renovating and remodeling my business (painting, dry-wall demolition and construction, carpet removal and installation, etc) all the while feeling like I was under water. You know, you turn your head to the left but the environment around you just doesn't want to come with you on time! You tilt you head too far up and it feels like your brain slid a couple inches backwards in your skull. And then of course, there are the spins. Sometimes they are quick and shocking and at other times relentless and outright violent.
I have learned, unfortunately, to live with dizziness for the past 20 years. It started up when I was the ripe age of 13. Well, last Wednesday I came home and felt like giving up. How in the hell am I supposed to run a business, be a supportive and loving husband and father and, at the same time, take care of me? I found myself spontaneously weeping throughout the course of the night. My wife is wonderful and tries to comfort me, but I know that she can't fully understand. I explain to her that it feels sorta like you feel after you drink too much and before the vomiting starts, but without the being drunk part. That would do the job, but she doesn't drink and has never even been drunk! This is why I am so grateful to have found this forum.
I think the only way to beat this thing is to communicate with those who share the same experience. I have read Dr. Saurno's books, I have spoken to him as well and he recommended that I start therapy (which I have). Before reading the book, I went through years of medical testing and dieting with no results. I am sure that dizziness is due to early, repressed childhood experiences. I didn't see it myself, but an old friend of mine who is becoming a world recognized psychologist did point out to me that Freud claimed to have cured patients with dizziness through hypnotism, psychotherapy and medication and that the cause for such symptoms is due largely in part to a repressed early childhood traumatic event. (Sheesh!) While all my other TMS symptoms have more or less vanished, my dizziness persists.
It's difficult to talk here about my parents and how they raised me. But I am interested in talking to anyone who feels like by doing so they can come closer to putting an end to the spins. At this point of my life, I simply cannot afford to let my dizziness take over. I always think about how we only have one life to live and how it pains me think that so many days, weeks and months have been wasted on being dizzy.
Thanks for listening and please feel free to contact me.
Dave
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 09:41:50
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Dear Dave,
Wow! 20 years? I logged on my computer this morning and saw "Dizzy Dave" and just knew this was one post I had to read and respond to. I'm so glad you found this forum and I'm so glad you have been to Dr. Sarno and read his books.
I have so many questions. How long ago did you find Dr. Sarno and do you journal? What other TMS sypmtoms did you have (that vanished)? Has your dizziness level gone down at all since you made the connection between your emotions/rage and the dizziness? When you were 13, did you just wake up that way one day or did it come on gradually?
Have you read all my posts about dizziness and the posts by Carol, Gina, and Hilary? If so, I'm sure you saw that Carol suffered from dizziness at one time and she has found a way to get rid of it. Although, I don't think any of us have had as severe of a case as you, it's good to know there are people who have successfully cured themselves.
I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated you must feel. I have had the problem for nearly 3 years, and not the extent as you have, and it consumes me daily. I would describe it to be similar to what you have said; like you are drunk without the actual fun of the buzz. More like the hangover than the fun part, right?
When I was in my 20's and was dating my husband, I remember he was house sitting/pet sitting for some friends of his parents. I remember that this family had a water bed. My husband (then boyfriend of about a year) invited me to come over and hang with him there after work. Naturally, we slept in the water bed every night throughout the week. I remember for weeks afterward, I felt like I was rocking on a boat. Now, in retrospect, I do realize that during that period of time we were arguing quite a bit and I was feeling insecure and jealous in our relationship. I remember laying in that water bed and watching a show and hearing him comment on how gorgeous all these different women were on t.v. I was so insecure after the upbringing that I had, and I got so angry at him. His comments were rude but I got really, really upset. I'm sure the emotions set off the problem, which eventually went away.
If you read my other posts, you'll find that I wrote about taking a trip to Montreal shortly after turning 40. Six airplanes, a dinner cruise on the St. Lawrence Seaway, and a train trip, and for three weeks after I felt like I was on the Titanic. Then, the trip to Cancun nearly three years ago, and the rocking/floating/dizzy thing started all over again. There was also a cruise to the Carribbean when I was 33. I had to leave my two young children (3 and 1) home and felt tremendous guilt as a mother. In fact, my one year old was turning one the day after I was to leave. For weeks afterward, the same old rocking feeling was there.
I have taken other trips in between the Montreal and Cancun trip, and nothing happened. That is how I know this is emotionally driven and that was part of how I made the link between Mal de Debarquement and TMS. But the main reason I linked the two together was the fact that I had had so many other TMS equivalents at one time or another, in tandem, just like Dr. Sarno talks about. It just goes from one thing to another.
At this point, my dizziness isn't too bad but I'm having eye problems, stomach problems, this weird burning tongue problem, TMJ pain, and intermittent leg cramps. It is enough to drive one insane!!!!
Is your dizziness constant or do you get breaks? And, when you do experience the dizziness and it is bad, can you recognize something you were thinking about or something that is happening in your life to provoke it? It has taken me a long time but I can finally do that. I start to have a thought, the dizziness happens, and I say to myself "STOP" and it stops.
Louise Hay's book says that dizziness comes from "Flightly, scattered thinking. A refusal to look." Does this describe you? Is there something in your life that you have not been able to look at? I know it fits me to a tee!
I'll tell you what has helped me and maybe it can help you. First of all, I would recommend reading and re-reading (several times) Dr. Sarno's books. I found Mindbody Prescription to be the most helpful. Then, I would recommend purchasing Dr. David Schechter's CD set. I play them in the car and they are extremely helpful as well. You need to think psychologically, not physically, 24/7. The doctors could find nothing wrong with you, just like with me, so you know it is nothing physical. If you are not journaling, try to do so. It helps me to write on this board, especially on the dizziness thread, because all of us have been able to vent about our childhoods. I know that is difficult for you so if you cannot talk about it on here then you need to talk about it somewhere. I would have Dr. Sarno recommend a psychologist to talk to. Dr. Schechter recommended Don Dubin, Ph.D., to me and I have seen him a couple of times and will be seeing him again tomorrow. It really helps.
I wish you healing and good health and want you to know you can e-mail me if you want (phototinter43@sbcglobal.net). Having a support system is so important. We're all here for each other.
Good luck and welcome to the TMS discussion forum.
Laura
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 10:14:03
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Quote from dizzy dave:
"I always think about how we only have one life to live and how it pains me think that so many days, weeks and months have been wasted on being dizzy."
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Welcome Dave,
We all have our cross to bear. I have my "arthritic"/hip-pain. I've played and observed some great athletes on the courts and I can't recall one that doesn't have some spot that isn't a problem. I've worked with some great yoga teachers and personal trainers and they all had a spot where they "held" tension. I would like to find anyone on the planet who does not have "issues" of some kind - physical or emotional equivalents. It's the nature of the beast. It's more important how we think about them, rather then ridding ourselves of them 100%.
TMS brings to my mind the image of, I believe, it's Atlas, the mythological figure, rolling a huge ball up a mountain, or Titan who was condemned to support the sky on his shoulders. I don't think it's any coincidence that the first cirvical vertebrae that supports the head is named the atlas vertebrae.
To me, judging by your quote, your time on the planet has not been wasted. You've got the skills to physically rebuild your own business by hand, have a marriage and children. That sounds like an active, full and rewarding life up to now. I assume you've tried all the traditional medicine cures without success. Hopefully, by comparing notes with the many others on the board that have your symptom, you will get some TMS resolution.
Good luck,
tt |
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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 11:50:05
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Laura,
Of all the people to hear from first on this forum, I am glad that it was you. I did read many of the posts at work last Friday. I was wondering what would pop up if I put the words "dizziness" and "Sarno" into Google and I found the posts that you started. I was reading if for a while at work wide-eyed and amazed to see so many people writing about the same experience. I sat at my desk and wept. I don't really cry often. Perhaps that is part of my problem, holding in painful emotions and trying so hard to always seem to others and myself as a solid, reliable rock. Interestingly, though, the next morning I felt a tremendous improvement with my overall balance. When I woke up Saturday morning I did my usual getting up routine. I carefully lifted my head off the pillow and sat at the edge of the bed. Then I rotated my head in various directions and felt that everything was "working" fine. I have had very little to no balance problems yesterday or today. I can only conclude that it must have a lot to do with reading the posts and finding others that have the same problems as I do and also due to my letting out some emotions. This is very encouraging for me!
I first read one of Dr. Sarno's books back in 1993 when I suddenly found myself in tremendous back pain. I was laid up for about a week when a teacher of mine told me about Dr. S. I went out and got his book and it helped significantly to dull the back pain, but I did have reoccurrences for the next 7 years or so. I never did keep a journal. Besides severe lower and upper back pain, I have had problems with my left knee, both shoulders; hay fever and migraine head aches. Most of these symptoms have either completely gone away or have diminished enough to not be an issue for me. I may get a migraine headache once or twice a year now, when earlier I would get them once a month or so. My dizziness "disappeared" for nearly 6 years and I felt at the time that I had beaten it. It revisited me and has been a cyclical problem since 1999. I mean "cyclical" because it seems to reoccur at almost specific times of the year. September is usually a bad month and through a good part of the fall and early to mid winter I can find an overall degree of unbalance. I seem to do better in the spring and summer with just a few incidents.
When I was 13 I camped out in my back yard in a 2-person tent with my neighborhood friend. When I awoke early that morning the earth and everything else for that matter was spinning violently at 2 revolutions per second for many hours. It was scary as anything! I somehow crawled my way to the back yard sliding-glass door and pounded on it until somebody would wake up. Eventually my mother found me and let me in. I can't remember anything else about that episode, but my dizziness from that day forward became a huge, unwanted part of my life. I have been able to look back and analyze what I was concerned and anxious with in my life at the time of onset. I find, like most people who suffer from TMS, that I worry about being a good person. I worry that I am not being a good father and husband and I worry about what my failures could do to the people who I love so much. These are not mere words, but they really are the ideas that encompass my mind constantly. I am not really thinking these things, but as we say, they are on the back of my mind. Now, there are certain things that can happen in life that can irritate those feelings more than others, but because I generally feel anxious it is hard to really pinpoint a thought or feeling that brings on my dizziness. I "talk to my brain" all the time, but with the spins it doesn't seem to help too much.
You asked, "Louise Hay's book says that dizziness comes from "Flightly, scattered thinking. A refusal to look. Does this describe you? Is there something in your life that you have not been able to look at?" Actually, no. I am pretty aware and capable of being in touch with my feeling and experiences. I feel that the cause of my dizziness is too far and out of my immediate vision. I believe it is deeply rooted and may take years of psychotherapy to uncover. I had a difficult childhood. My parents fought constantly, my mother has maybe kissed me 5 times in my life (cold fish), I was chased home from school every day from 2-6 grade, I did very poorly in school and at the end of the day I felt totally alone and unwanted by my peers, teachers and family. These things have caused me to be an inwardly insecure person. Outwardly, that's a totally different thing.
I will write again.
Thank you for welcoming me to the forum.
Sincerely,
Dave
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 18:54:23
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Dear Dave,
I was extremely happy to hear of your improvement over the weekend after reading the dizzy posts. That is very encouraging! It is very interesting how that happens but it sure seems to happen a lot. I think your dizziness lessened this past weekend because your subconscious knows you are onto it.
It is also VERY encouraging that the dizziness disappeared for six years. That should give everyone hope (it does for me)! If it can disappear once, it can and will disappear again, I just know it.
It must have been unbelievably scary for you to experience that kind of violent spinning as a young, 13 year old child. My heart aches when I read stories like that. It had to be terribly frightening, and when you needed the support of a warm, loving parent what you got instead was "a cold fish." Your description of your childhood sounds very much like the environment I grew up in, including the bullying at school. Not much in the way of nurturing and warmth, but a lot of put downs and hysteria. I have concluded that my parents were simply not capable of loving me the way a child needs to be loved. In fact, like you, I never heard the words "I love you" from my mother or father either. Luckily, we have the power to change that with our own children. I feel like I can be the kind of parent to my children that I needed to have. It sounds like you worry about the same things and try your best to be a good husband and father. We both have broken the cycle. And now we need to do the same thing with the cycle of dizziness.
I found it interesting that your dizziness is cyclical. Your brain has probably decided to induce the dizziness during certain times of the year, much the same way Gina's and mine have decided to do so after travel. I tend to get dizzy in certain situations and in certain places, although this is starting to change because my brain knows this can't be. Like, walking around the block and getting dizzy when I turn the corner up the street. Clearly, this is a learned response, just like yours has learned what times of year to "act up." Gina and I both tend to get worse when we are arguing with someone or getting upset. Again, a learned response.
Please continue to write on this forum and I will keep you in my thoughts. It is posts like yours that make me grateful I found this forum to begin with. I only hope that others suffering from dizziness will find it too. I'm also hoping that Dr. Sarno writes another book and focuses more on "other equivalents" such as dizziness. Imagine the lives he could touch!
Laura
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 19:16:31
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Dave,
It may help to know that according to TMS theory you do not have to find any deeply burried psychological source of your TMS. You need only to understand how the TMS process works.
I have been listening to the audio tapes of Dr. Schechter and on it his associate, Donald Dubin, a TMS psychotherapist, says that the most sessions he needed to do was 15, for an individual very resistant to the TMS "cure".
Good luck,
tt |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2005 : 20:55:41
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Welcome Dave,
I can relate to portions of your posts in this thread since I experienced some of the same things. Although my mother did show affection to us kids, my parents also fought all the time. I grew up in a very stressed household, and from 1st grade until 8th grade I was constantly harrased and abused by the neighborhood kids. When my father lost his job and started his own "business", the finances fell apart completely. I still resent him to this day about being a poor provider.
I have had mostly low back pain, migrains, TMJ, and to a lesser extent a myriad of the other TMS equivs. The only time I had acute dizziness was during a crippling LBP event where I was bedridden for many weeks, and was on flexeril (cyclobenzyprene sp??) a muscle relaxant med. At the time I thought the dizziness was a published side effect of the flexeril, but now that I'm TMS-aware it could have been another TMS equiv.
Today I'm down to only 2 or 3 minor migrains per year, and the LBP is 99% gone. I'm still trying to get my TMJ under control, as its the only lingering physical symptom I can't seem to control. I'm often sad and depressed as I manage the pain by reliving the bad moments in my life, so they are no longer repressed. A fair exchange for deliverance from the relentless LBP :-)
Not to go off topic too far, I did find my migraines less aggrevated when I quit caffiene 8 years ago, long before I found Dr. Sarno's work, something to consider. I also found MSG and sugar substitutes (aspertame, etc.) problematic and avoid those as well. Placebo effect?, maybe, dunno.
I'm happy that you are here and have found many caring compatriots that can relate to your experiences. Thanks for your thoughtful and well written post.
Take care, -Stryder
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Edited by - Stryder on 01/24/2005 20:57:28 |
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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 10:26:33
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TT,
It is nice to make your acquaintance.
I don't feel like I have wasted my life being dizzy. I do think, however, that my life has been "held-back" in large part to the dizziness. I have not succeeded in many areas in life to the degree of my potential. For instance, it's important to me to stay fit. For the past couple years I haven't had the time to play basketball or time to travel to and workout in a gym. So, I got a treadmill at home. I may go on it for 3-5 days a week for about a month and build up my stamina and just as I make progress, I get dizzy. Often my dizziness lasts for months and all the effort and work, both emotionally and physically seem to wash down the drain. Especially when pretty much all I feel like doing most of the time when I am dizzy is sitting or laying still. And what's better than eating when you can't do much else? Let me tell you, I have not gone more than 2 months at a time being TMS free for years now (mainly dizziness). And every time I begin feeling better I reconsider my past efforts and take a fresh swing at it hoping that this time it'll be different. No such luck so far.
This is just one area in life that can, as so many people know, cause an ill-fated spiraling effect on other aspects of life, all of which I can do without. I am not particularly down on life. The truth is I feel like I have found purpose to my life and found enjoyment as well. The most frustrating part is seeing your goals, but not being able to get there because of TMS.
Dave |
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Ginag
51 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 11:31:17
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Hi Dave, Welcome to our little "dizzy" group. Thus far, it seems you are our first guy member. I think you will make a fabulous addition to our group. In fact, I, for one, have to tell you that your description of the short, shocking vertigo attacks and also the longer, violent ones are EXACTLY what I experience. You also "hit the nail on the head" with the described horrible sensation of when you look up. Does you head often feel too heavy for your neck?? I've noticed no one ever complains of that but me; and please know that I have a normal size head. As Laura told you, her and I really suffer when we are experiencing anger and/or confrontation.
One thing we all seem to have in common is that we were definitely shortchanged in the "good parents" department. I see you find it difficult to discuss that subject; but hopefully, you will read our past postings, and become more comfortable with the process in time. Like you, I have given up things I love to do, like dancing, pilates, driving, etc. But I'd like you to know that since I found Dr. Sarno, my extreme vertigo attacks have diminished tremendously. So although I seem to have constant imbalance, the terrible, more frightening vertigo attacks have subsided to only a few times a year. Before reading Dr. Sarno,those attacks would occur several times a month and put me in bed for 3 days straight. The fear of not knowing when they were going to come on was paralyzing. Now, when they do happen, I can actually fight them, shorten the duration, and not become bedridden; thus I've proven to myself I do have some control over them. I guess what I'm saying is for you to have hope and perhaps you too will find success in this approach. So, again, WELCOME.
Gina |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 11:45:48
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Welcome Dave,
If you read the previous dizzy forums, you'll see that I've also had this symptom for some time.
TMS self-treatment has worked incredibly well for my back: after about 6 weeks I'm virtually pain-free. Now I'm going to rid myself of this dizziness, and I know that you can do it, too.
A couple of points. I notice that you don't mention anger in your posts. In addition to thinking about what worries or upsets you, remember that the critical thing here is repressed rage. And just from your posts here, I'd imagine that you probably do have quite a bit to be rageful about - the fact that others don't understand, or that your mother was withholding, for instance. I've found it incredibly eye-opening to concentrate on the anger part of the equation and realize how angry I am - and that's just the anger I can now feel!
Journaling is really important in this process. Go after the rage, and write about whatever comes to mind. Anger body work is also fantastically helpful - read "Facing the Fire" if you haven't already done so.
Don't get stuck thinking that you'll need years of psychotherapy to uncover the childhood memory that's making you dizzy. I don't think it works like that. Re-read Sarno's take on this. It might help you to see a therapist to help guide you through some of this work, but that doesn't mean you'll be in therapy for the next 10 years!
Re the cyclical stuff: I think this is simply conditioning. Perhaps you initially got dizzy in September and then got it again at the same time the following year, then before you know it you're anticipating dizziness at that particular time every year.
I know just how distressing this symptom can be, and I know we'll get over it. I'm glad you found this forum!
Best,
hilary
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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 07:48:45
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Gina,
You know, it sounds like you and I have pretty much the same problem. I don't know if I have ever thought of a sensation as having a "heavy head". I will try to describe the feeling to the best of my ability, but because it is such a strange sensation some of the description may be, well, strange. There are a few sensations; there are times when my brain (or what I imagine is my brain) feels like it is "sloshing around" in my head (or sliding to some degree). It's more of an internal feeling than an overall head feeling. With it, I feel or almost "hear" in my mind a rumbling as it happens. This particular sensation is, in my opinion one of the most upsetting feelings associated with TMS dizziness. It is upsetting because it feels like your internal world is being affected even when there may not be any external spins. Then there are times when, to some extent, it feels like my head is not comfortably supported by my neck and that my head feels like it could easily slump downwards or to the side. It can be compared to a person who is sitting up and drifting into sleep or like a bobble-head that has been over used and the metallic spring is stretched out. Maybe that's the "heavy head" that you are referring to-I dunno.
I have a question. I have often noticed that my ears have a "fullness" feeling when or around the times I am dizzy. Like as if I want to pop my ears, but there's nothing to pop. Does you notice this symptom along with your dizziness?
Also, about what I had mentioned earlier about how it is difficult to write about my parents and how they raised me in this forum. What I meant to say is that it is long and I didn't have the time to write about it. I am not bashful speaking out about my childhood. I had it rough. Just for starters...in elementary school as the school bell rang at 3:00, I ran to be in front of line in class to exit the school room. Then the teacher would, after all the children lined up, let us out. I wanted to get to the front of line because the moment the door flung open, I was on my toes, looking this way and that for which bully was closest. Often, I would ditch my pursuers by jumping fences; zigzagging through backyards until eventually I came to my house. Sometimes I would climb a tree to see if it was safe to go home only to find a bunch of kids sitting on my doorstep waiting for me.
It wasn't till I was 14 that I learned to fight back. That really changed things. Anyways, this is drop in the bucket not to mention my mother. I have learned only recently, through therapy, that I have major repressed hatred and anger towards her for being a distant and unloving mother. Recently I approached her with the question of why she never showed me any affection or love. She replied, and I quote, "I am not cut from that cloth."
Thanks for welcoming me to the "dizzy group". Oh, and I am proud to be it's first male member.
Dave |
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 09:36:56
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Hi Dizzy Dave. If you have read all the other "dizzy" posts you will know that I am the one that beat the dizzies. I have started to get an occasional spin since I started reading this thread. In fact I had thought about not even signing on to them. I changed my mind because I am so "not afraid" of the occasional spin that it really isn't an issue. The couple times that I experienced the dizzies since reading these posts my immediate response was something like "get real! I know what you are!" And it stopped instantly. So, no more fear.
Your description of symptoms fits mine to a "t". I had to really reach back to remember what it was like. I couldn't even look at moving water, such as a river or stream, without having symptoms. The day I knew that I had beaten it was the day that I stood on a bridge and watched the water underneath with no reaction!
Others on the board express themselves a lot better than I do, but I am going to make a couple suggestions that helped me a lot. The first is to deal with the fear when an attack starts. It isn't easy, but try to take some deep breaths, while asking yourself what is going on in your life to cause this. Close your eyes, say to yourself "I know what you are and I'm not afraid of you". Then, right away, turn your thoughts to whatever is happening or has happening in your life to make you angry. If you can, sit down, close your eyes, relax your body, and think about your anger. While doing this take deep breaths. Do this EVERY TIME you feel the dizziness.
The other thing that I will suggest, now that you have joined the board, is to post less about what it feels like and more about "you". It has the same effect as journaling for me, and you have many good listeners here. One of the beauties of the board is that it is a "safe" place to reveal yourself. If other TMS sufferers are like me, they tend to hide their "weaknesses" from those who are important in their lives. I am always the strong one that everyone else leans on. I can think of at least a couple friends who would not even be my friends except for their need for my perceived strength. It sometimes makes me crazy that I can't cry on someone's shoulder on occasion, but I can't seem to let go.
I hope that this, and all the other great suggestions, will ultimately help you to become dizzy free, as I am now.
Carol |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 09:42:33
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Dear Dave,
The fullness in your ears that you describe is very similar to something my Dad experienced (concidentally his name is Dave too. He was working in a job where there were a lot of problems going on and he was feeling extremely stressed out. He ended up going on "early retirement" because his head would spin so much. They thought he had Meniere's disease (I guess this is a typical symptom, i.e. the ear fullness) and performed every test known to mankind on him. They never could come up with a clear diagnosis for him and for quite some time he was suffering from vertigo. So, upon his early retirement, he bought a travel trailer and he and my mother started traveling around and lo and behold, it all went away, never to return again.
I believe something happened to you at the age of 13, some trauma of some sort, or perhaps a culmination of traumas at the hands of your mother and the kids at school. Yesterday I had an appointment with my TMS psychologist, Donald Dubin. I spoke to Dr. Dubin about all the people with dizziness on the TMS forum. For awhile on this forum, I truly felt like an oddball, as if I were one of the few who had this symptom. So, he was interested to hear that I've been bonding with so many others who share the same problem. I actually printed out some of our discussions on the dizzy thread and showed it to him. In your case, he surmised that some traumatic eent may have happened to you at 13 and so now, I guess we just need to figure out what that is. Maybe it wasn't one traumatic event in particular but instead it was "the whole ball of wax," i.e. bullies, parents, etc. He was impressed that you had a "remission" for those six years. That is very promising.
When you said that your dizziness was cyclical, i.e. worse at cerain times of the year, that to me says it all. I have always noticed it to be worse when I'm tired, when I'm rushing around trying to get somewhere, etc. Those are all learned responses that I have keyed in, if you will, to my psyche. I have learned to expect to be dizzy at certain times and, sure enough, I get dizzy. I noticed you mentioned the treadmill and it's funny you would bring this up. I have a friend who works out at the same health club as I do. She has suffered from "anxiety" and "dizziness" for years. We both like to use the treadmill and I was telling her about the people who had gotten dizzy from travel and "motion." She said to me, "The treadmill is motion. How come you are able to do that?" Now, when I'm on the treadmill and I see her walking into the gym, I get dizzy. I just have to see her and I'm dizzy, albeit briefly. Isn't that amazing?
Some of which you and Gina describe is how I feel, but not to the extent of either of you. My dizzy sensation feels more like rocking on a boat in the water, however sometimes it is more of an abrupt jolt of motion. More times than not, the feeling I get lasts a couple of seconds. It is very brief. Other times, I'll feel the sensation for a few minutes, usually when I'm walking and am deep into my thoughts. Last night, I was using one of those exercise balls to do sit ups. I sat down on it and bounced for a few seconds and as I was bouncing on the ball, my head felt like there was fluid in there floating around making me sea sick. It is the weirdest thing I've ever experienced and I never did experience any of this until my 40's (except for the water bed experience back in the 1980's)
Personally, I think that all of us need to find a way to deal with our cold, distant mothers. It seems to be a common thread between each of us (and was for my father as well). Dr. Dubin told me something profound yesterday. He said "You have this empty hole and you are waiting for it to be filled up" (by my husband, parents, friends). He continued to say "They are not going to fill up the hole because it will always be a bottomless pit" i.e. due to the fact that you received so little in the way of love as a child. Therefore, "You need to go inside yourself and fill the hole up for yourself and stop waiting for them to do it for you." He's right. My mother is NEVER going to change and she will never be the mother I want and need for her to be, and it sounds like your mother isn't either. For me, hearing this makes me focus even more on my own family and trying to be the best mother I can to my own children.
I hope that you are continuing to feel some improvement in your symptoms like you were on the weekend. Keep posting your thoughts and working on digging up the junk from the past. Get rid of all the clutter from childhood that is literally making your head spin. Again, I'm glad you found us.
Laura
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Ginag
51 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 12:40:20
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Hi Guys, I would like to respond to Dave first. In response to your question about ear popping - when my symptoms first became troublesome, my hears popped frequently with no apparent cause. Now, I find it doesn't happen much at all. So I guess it doesn't match up with your symptom. As for the bobblehead symptom, I guess the best way of explaining it is to say I need to rest my head down because my neck feels extreme strain holding my head straight. But enough of the physical. Now for the emotional - unlike your history, I was never bullied by my peers. But the "mom thing" -- THAT I can readily idenfity with.
Carol, I was wondering where you were!!!! Glad to welcome you back as our success story. Every thread needs one. You're right about being able to open up on the forum. Like you, I am considered the "strong" one who everyone comes to for support and advice. For the first time in my life, this forum has provided me with a source I CAN GO to for support and advice. We really seem to be forming an invaluable bond with each other here. No judgments here from each other for taboos we've been feeling for a long, long time. We've pretty much agreed that we hold tremendous anger and rage at our parents-- which other people may find ungrateful, judgemental, and disloyal on our part. But we fully commiserate with the each other's rage and understand its justification. We also are beginning to acknowledge how our upbringing affects our relationship with others in our lives. Which in my case, brings on more anger.
Laura, as usual, I just HAVE to respond to your posting. I do agree with you that these attacks can be conditioned. I have tripped and fallen on a number of occasion so I now make a habit of holding on to my husband whenever we walk outside of our home. But when I need to walk unassisted outside, I immediately get that fleeting vertigo sensation; and I immediately KNOW it's playing with me, the little devil!!!! I fight it - but in the last year, I have, on 2 occasions, tripped on something that shouldn't have been on the floor, and proceeded to fall down and get hurt ( such as,40 stitches to the head and broken finger). So even though it wasn't the dizziness that caused it, I am now spooked when I walk unassisted. It almost seems like my TMS has had some outside assistance in reinforcing my fear.
I'm making a concerted effort to overcome this fear, but it seems when I think I'm doing good, that's when I step on something and go flying. This last spill I had in November has seemed to really shake me up. I think with very little effort I could develop this into a real phobia. But I'm hoping being with you guys on this forum will be just what I need to erase the fear.
Gina |
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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 15:36:15
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I have posted a couple times on the original dizzy thread. I have had dizziness for about 3 years, a little over a year ago I was diagnosed with Meniere's disease. I do not have the ear fullness too much any more although it does at times come on for just a second or too when I exercise too much, sit in a hot sauna or when I get congested or at high elevations. I get these strange head sensations especially at night. I call then brain malfunctions when I try to explain them to my husband. It is so hard to explain. I lay flat and my head feels like it is heavy or that my brain is wooshing around. Then just when I am about to fall asleep or get relaxed I will hear explosions in my head and with each explosion or gunshot sound I will feel a sense of motion. Sometimes I get very nauseated as it really feels like I am moving inside. Not really a spinning but like my head is sharply jolted around. I do at times get spinning sometimes at night but it is mostly this internal head thing. It absolutely drives me nuts! I sometimes have to sleep sitting up.
Also when I am working too long in my job at the computer typing a difficult report or I am tired I will get brain surges of dizzienss like I have an energy force that just passes through my brain and caused me to feel motion or almost like I may pass out but nothing goes black. It is strange. Every day I experience some type of dizziness although it is so much better than last year when i was dissabled. I am currently going to a chiro who practices some mind body techniques. He is not your every day chirpractor. He uses B.E.S.T technique among other techniques. He has you imagine traumatic events from childhood or controlling people in your early life. Then he does some muscle accupressure and adjusting with some device. Amazingly this has helped. He works alot around my atlas and cervical neck area. I have had about 5 visits so far. It is almost like a chiropractic and therapy session at the same time. He believes that old "programs" in the mind cause all physical symptoms that become chronic like back pain, dizziness, etc. We develop habits of certain symptoms. It is in our subconscious mind not our conscious mind. Of course he advocates good diet too but the main thing he tries to do is to help reprogram the mind, to get rid of these symptoms associated wth past traumatic events, emotional, physical, whatever. He uses a techique called EFT also. It seems to really go along with what Sarno teaches.
I have also been using a technique that helps me. I imagine the most wonderful scene in my mind, something that makes me joyous. For me it is sitting up at my big picture window in our half built cabin in the mountains, only in my vision the cabin is finally complete. I am retired, have no worries and am drinking a cup of tea reading a book while viewing the magnificant view out the large windows. Whenever I get this picture I concentrate of actually FEELING the sensations that go along with the visual and it elicits profound joy. While in this feeling of joy, I say positive affrimations to myself, like - My body is free of dizziness and I am happy and healthy, I love life, etc. Anyway by doing this I am trying to re-write my story from one of a dizzy person to a happy, dizzy free person. It seems to distract me and the joyous feeling I get with the image seems to negate the dizzy, negative feeling. I learned this technique in a book called - "Excuse me, your life is waiting". Can't remember the author but very good and powerful book about controlling your energy. The key is to really feel the sensation of joy, love, happiness and the state your wants or desires during this feeling. You have to keep the feeling for at least 16 seconds in order for the positive energy to be released or to become part of your subconscious mind..
Sorry to ramble on, just wanted to add to this dizzy string.
I am trying very hard to "overcome" the diagnosis they gave me of Meniere's disease as there is just so much negative about this and how it can never be cured, etc. It is hard to overcome a doctor giving you a label. I have since stopped going to regular MDs unless of course I was in a car wreck or something and needed emergent medical care, otherwise, I feel they will just keep digging until they find SOMETHING... and then you are stuck with a label that is so hard to overcome...
Take care all you dizzy folk. You are not alone. But I am determined, like Carol to beat this thing and I believe each day will be a little better..I am also getting out my Sarno books again and plan on purchasing some new tapes suggested on this site. By the way, one more thing. I guess I am the minority here, but I had a very loving mother. I adored her and were best friends. She died in 1996 during surgery and it seems that is when all my worst health problems started. I feel I need to work on unresolveed grief maybe, but how many tears can you cry. Or maybe it is anger that she was taken away from me..
Elise..
Elise8 |
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 10:02:29
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Elise, it is so good to hear from you on the board again. I had wondered where you had gone. I missed your posts on the other dizziness thread. I guess I have to go back to it and catch up.
I'm sorry that you are still having the dizziness problem, but it sounds like you are making some progress. Keep up what you are doing, and keep dissing that diagnosis. They gave me the same diagnosis before they decided that it was benign positional vertigo instead. I guess I am lucky, because that is a much better diagnosis to have so I lost my fear. I also realized when I researched the condition that I didn't fit. I could not reproduce the effect that the Dr. got during my examination when he turned my head in a particular way. I had a severe spin when he did it, but I could never reproduce it on my own. It just came at random times. At that point I became skeptical of the diagnosis and decided that it was related to some severe stress that I had been experiencing when it started. That was the beginning of beating it. I am absolutely sure that as long as any of us, with any TMS symptoms or equivalents, believes that there is a physical cause, we can't beat it.
My own recovery was sporadic. I would go for several weeks with no symptoms, no matter what I did, then out of the blue they would start again. By then I was over my fear, and the attacks became fewer and farther between. Eventually they just stopped completely, until I had a couple during the reading and posting on these dizzy threads.
I am hoping so much that all you dizzies will beat this. I was also amazed at how common it is when I started talking to people. There are many of us out there, just as there are many of us with back pain, etc. That alone should be a clue that it is related to the emotions. The cases of true Menieres, if they exist, are pretty rare. BTW, I also had the fullness in the ear sensation. I still get that on occasion, usually associated with a brief ringing in the ear. I take note of it and dismiss it from my mind as not important. The next time I notice my ear it is gone.
Best of luck to all of you. I wouldn't trade my back pain for the dizziness if someone gave me the option!
Carol |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 11:12:10
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Hi, everyone!
Elise, I too am happy to hear from you again. It sounds like you are really making strides towards a dizzy free life. I commend you for all your hard work. The EFT sounds similar to some work I did with a doctor years ago. He called it "keying" and he wrote a book called "Keying; The Power of Positive Feelings," which was based on the work of Bandler and Grinder and the whole Pavlovian approach. I, too, get the fullness in the ears from time to time, as did my father when he suffered from the dizzies (he hasn't been dizzy for about 18 years). Keep posting because we love to hear from you.
Carol, as always it was great hearing from you. You are my mentor and you give encouragement and hope to us all. Thank you for your input on this forum. You're the best! It's almost like you are the leader of this group and if we listen to what you have done and take your advice, we can all get to where we need to be. I truly believe that since you have been "to hell and back" already, and you see there actually is a light at the end of the tunnel, then the rest of us can never lose hope. There is no excuse for giving up.
I hope all the rest of my dizzy friends are doing well today. Hi to Gina, Hilary, and Dave.
Laura
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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 08:25:17
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Hello everyone.
I haven't had the time to write over the past few days.
Elise, you seem to have very similar symptoms as me-the swooshing of the brain-feeling thing...very horrible. I have had some relief lately. I am not 100% dizzy-free, but I have most of my balance working fine. Unless, of course, I try to look for a missing shoe under my bed or something. I can live with that for now.
Anyways...I think it was a good idea to write down some descriptions of how we are feeling physically when the symptoms occur. However, we really need to discuss our personalities and our emotions. I was wondering if there would be a more practical way of accomplishing this. I have a business and usually do not have the time afforded to me to write nearly as much as I would like to. In fact, I am currently sitting at my computer at work and it's now 9:36 am and I should be doing other things. There should be a TMS dizzy convention. Or there should be another way for this group to do something about this problem. It is great to know that there are others like me who share my experiences, but I would much rather know what is the common thread that runs through all of us. You see, not all of us have had a crummy, cold fish for a mother. That would be something to look at, of course, but there is definitely more to it. I just know it! Millions of people have crummy parents, but are not dizzy. Tons of people are anxious and have "issues", but are not dizzy. Many people, like myself, have accepted the TMS diagnosis and have successfully rid themselves from certain TMS related problems, but the imbalance and dizziness lingers on, it seems, way beyond the others. I would like to know why. Has Dr. Sarno found that patients of his who had dizziness found relief after reading his books or going to his lectures? The edges of the pages that discuss dizziness in his book have become worn out and smudged from my many visits to remind myself of why I become dizzy. Unfortunately, though, he barely speaks of dizziness in his book. Anyone who has "Meniers Disease" or whatever other bogus diagnosis they have, knows that this is an extremely difficult condition to live with. All TMS related maladies are horrible and I don't want to downplay any of them. It's just that I have had a bunch, but the dizziness interferes with life on an internal and external level. Last spring I seriously sprained my ankle playing basketball. My foot turned blue and all the hair in the damaged area plain out died. It took me nearly 6 months to just start to walk without a limp. I had noticed that my dizziness more or less disappeared while I was healing (interesting, isn't it?). While I was crutching around town I told my wife that I would easily choose this over being dizzy.
If anyone wants to talk, give me a call on my cell: 516-655-7657. Maybe we can figure out a way to "map" the particular person of TMS dizziness. Unfortunately, business calls. Gotta run. Bye.
Dave
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 09:13:21
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Dave,
Everything you said is so true. I have other TMS maladies as well and none compare for me to the dizziness. I think that's why it never seems to leave. It's holding on for dear life because it certainly does do a number on us. When my husband says to try and "forget about it" and "think about other things" I try to explain that this is not possible sometimes. If your world is spinning and you feel like you are all out of balance, how do you put this out of your mind? (He doesn't say this to me anymore - I think he knows better).
Lately, my stomach problems are flaring up big time and yesterday my back was really aching. Although those problems bother me, the dizziness always is the one that seems to actually "depress" me because it seems like it's never going to leave permanently.
This past weekend I was walking with my husband. He was talking about going back east to our nephew's (his brother's son) bar mitzvah. I told him I'm not going - no way. He said he's going to tell his brother that I won't be getting on a plane. Two seconds later, we're walking and I feel dizzy. Then, I think to myself "What was I just thinking about" and - Bingo! I realize it was the fact that I don't want to get on a plane and take any chances. (The trip to Maryland about five years ago was my first episode with the rocking/imbalance/dizzy thing.) I also think part of me is using this as an excuse because I hate staying with my brother-in-law (his house is filthy and I'm a neat freak!) and I just flat out don't want to go.
Thanks for giving us your number. I will jot it down and may give you a call. I have often thought how nice it would be for all of us to talk, like you say, perhaps a convention of us dizzy sufferers. How great would it be if Dr. Sarno could be at that meeting. Well, one can dream, right?
Glad to hear from you again. Take care and we'll talk soon.
Laura
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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 09:38:35
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You know it would be interesting to find out what the common thread is with all of us dizzies. Maybe we are just that type of "goodist" person that Sarno talks about and we just happened to have a very traumatic first dizzy spell and now it has become part of our subconsciuos. My chiropractor said that dizziness is one of the hardest things to get rid of but it can be done with enough de-programming. He said that out very first dizzy episode was so frightening that it has stayed in our subconscious. And whatever else was recorded at that time is also there with it and acts like a trigger. We may not have been aware of the other things going on at that time but they are in our subconsciuous. Many are feelings of fear associated with other things. I can't explain this very well but when he explained it to me it made sense. This pattern of being so upset by this first dizzy episode was due in part to many other things that happened in our early childhood and set the pattern for this fear. So any traumatic event that happened in childhood, be it emotional or physical set the stage for our sensitivities. Then due to maybe a physical problem like stuffy ears or congested head or allergies,etc., or stress, etc. we suffered that first horrible dizzy event, and now it has caused a pattern to emerge and each time we have another dizzy event the pattern becomes more engrained in us and is associated with other subconscious triggers present at the time and it just goes on and on... So we have to break this cycle somehow and that is what he is working on with me. He says it helps to accept that it is caused by the subconscious mind but that to get rid of something as frightening as dizziness sometimes it takes some real deprogramming and much practice. It is like trying to break a realy bad nasty habit that keeps getting triggered over and over by our subconscious mind.... TMS techniques do help but sometimes it takes more than that, I guess.
I have noticed that I am better since going to him. I see him again in a little while -- gotta go for now.. I like the idea of a dizzy convention, or better yet, how about a dizzy free convention..sounds more positive.
Elise
Elise8 |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 12:36:41
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Elise,
Everything your chiro is saying makes complete sense to me. It would explain a lot of things. This "programming" is so deeply imbedded into our psyches, that we probably could all use some help "deprogramming." I think you hit the nail on the head, I really do. By the way, what is the name of your chiropractor? There was a guy in Colorado I was going to see about a year ago. I'm trying to remember but I found him on-line (entering dizziness and chiropractic) and I think his last name was Kaufman. Anyway, I spoke with him briefly over the telephone and he helps people with dizziness/vertigo all the time. I just wondered if it was the same guy.
I agree about the "dizzy free" convention. Much more positive. I have always felt that there are so many people out there suffering and wouldn't it be wonderful to come up with a way to help them all. When I used to spend a lot of time looking up causes for my dizziness, I used to sit at my computer weeping all day long while reading the sad, sad stories of people who once had active lives and are now reduced to walking with canes or who have no quality of life. I think there is so much more to this than people realize and it isn't until you suffer from it that you realize it needs to be cured. I think between all of us, the cure is within reach. Carol has already proven that!
Thank you for your post, Elise, and it is great to hear from you. I think your input from your chiropractor is important and could be quite helpful.
Laura
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Dizzy? I've been for 20 years! Enough.
