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Peaceful Warrior
12 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2005 : 00:44:20
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Hi all, I have a gut feeling that I found this website just in the knick of time. I found out about TMS almost a year ago and have stopped all treaments entirely for about a year. I had just scheduled a dr appt for tomorrow which could have really set me back on my whole "mission" as a warrior fighting this whole thing, i'm so thankful that i found this forum, reading some of the messages has convinced me to cancel my appt first thing in the morning.
I'm only 22, in fact i'd love to know if there's anyone who's that young out there and has TMS, i got it when i was 18. That really bothers me, that I got it when so young, the time in life you're really supposed to enjoy. It started with intense lower back pain for 2 yrs, then neck pain after that, and since 6 months intense knee pain. I've done the whole hundreds of appts thing and more than 12 differnet therapies not to mention numerous xrays, mris, catscans, and basically everything comes out normal, at most is a mild disc herniataion but they say its so mild it shouldnt cause pain and most people have that much of a herniation. The pain is of course chronic and there the entire day. There are days when im doing better, but right now im doing really bad which is why i schedulded that darn appt!
I really don't know what im not doing in order to see the kinds of results you all are seeing. I feel like i really try with the new way of thinking, but im not seeing the kinds of results i think i should. It's very obvious to me that this condition, the sypmtoms etc. are ridiculous and that it really is a mind thing, a matter or de-conditioning, but that seems to be the tough part. AS SOON AS i wake up in bed, the first thing i think is, "oh the pain, i hope it doesn't come" and it does within a minute and lasts the entire day, i sleep like a baby though.
I have a feeling talking with you all will help me on my mission to get better, im sick and tired of this, im graduating from college in may and have a job lined up, but i have to get better in order to work full time!
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robbokop
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 04:56:53
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Hello Peaceful Warrior.
You certainly have found a good site - and we are all talking the same language and it doesn't involve going to the doctors or surgery! I'm 26 now and have had many different things since childhood which I think can be put down to TMS type symptoms. Every Sunday when I was a kid we used to go to church and I often used to get a horrible pain across the bridge of my nose(just that day!). Later in my teens, my parents split up and soon after I started getting awful headaches. Like you said, I would wake up, worry about getting a headache, then it would come on and stay the entire day. This lasted right through to 2nd year of university, with many moments of despair! Often in my teens I had irritable bowel or my back would suddenly go out - everyone else seemed to be sailing along very nicely, which didn't seem fair! It was only in the Summer after my 1st year at Uni when my Godmother, who's a bit of a guru really, spent a lot of time with me and I managed to crack ALL the physical symptoms over a period of time. The techniques she used were very similar to Sarno (although neither of us had heard of him or TMS!). I even managed to cope with my mother's suicide 5 years ago without any physical problems, the toughest thing in my life so far - my conscious mind was really feeling everything back then, grief, anger, the whole shebang! It's only recently that I've wandered off the beaten track again and ended up with RSI symptoms(I quit my well paid job to become a professional jazz piano player but missed all the underlying emotions of fear, anticipation etc that accompanied the massive change - had to stop playing completely).
Regarding your anger at getting the various pains that have ruined what you thought should be the happiest days of your life at 18 - this is exactly what I thought too, that everyone else was having a brilliant time and it was just me that was suffering with my chronic headaches - ANGER! But, I really doubt that that was the case - once you start talking to people, you realise that underneath tough exteriors everyone has doubts about themselves, fears etc - I've even met international opera singers and concert pianists that think they're no good when their audiences are praising them - life is a tough beast to cope with sometimes - BUT! You have your whole life left to enjoy not just one year ! The key is in feeling the emotions as they come along, there are so many coming along all the time, like a wondrous cocktail - don't let them pass unnoticed! There are people on here that could explain how to do that better than me and a load of books. Remember, you don't need to worry about the pain, you really don't. See Kat's advice to me to do things 'mindfully' and staying 'in the present' on the 'New Problem!' post. You can do it Peaceful Warrior - Your body is a workhorse and is very resilient!
One question - Do you have pains in all these places at once, back, neck, knees or does the pain shift around? I bet it shifts.
Rob
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 05:03:30
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| You have been to the doctor enough to rule out serious problems.Have you read Dr.Sarno's book(s)as of yet? Read the book at least a few times.I think your age and stepping out in the real world is a big part of the formula.When I was your age I was a basket ball player and had back problems all the time,My dad was a Doctor and was always checking me out to find nothing.TMS grew with age until it was serious.You have the benefit of learning the knowlege to rid yourself of it as my two children have.Keep reading until you understand ,stay on site,as the people here are very knowledgeable,and will help you help yourself to a painfree life. Paul. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 05:34:11
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Hey PW..
I had my first TMS attack when I was 6 years old.I am absolutely positively SURE that's what it was,and it laid me up all summer.
The fact that you got the symptoms earlier than some is just an indicator that you matured faster than some others might,or had more suppressed rage ,or a combination of both.When I was 22,I was still one year away from even CoNsIdErIng that I might not be the center of the universe,and that the world didn't exist to gratify my hedonistic wants. I had all the drama of court/jail/broken homes and relationships to keep me distracted.The fact it has hit you at 22 is just a sign that the moral imperative,and "goodist' is just better developed,or as I said,some truly deep trauma.
You are not alone.When I was in the chronic pain center,there was a fella in there who was 19 !!! He couldn't turn his head,stand,sit or walk !!! We had a "group" I was in,and we were constantly waiting for him .....he needed help doing every thing.He was the most overly conscientious person I'd ever met...He also,as I recall,had a terribly painful family situation that he NEVER talked about in out groups (chronic pain centers do a lot of TMS stuff,except it's run under the secondary gain theory of pain....that we are "getting something" from being in pain and that we just need to be re-conditioned)
quote:
AS SOON AS i wake up in bed, the first thing i think is, "oh the pain, i hope it doesn't come" and it does within a minute and lasts the entire day, i sleep like a baby though.
This was me Exactly! I would actually wiggle my toes every morning to "check" that the sciatica was still there.
The way I overcame THAT little deal(and each and every little deal needs addressing) is,after developing a little bit of confidence in the diagnosis....I would wake up and say,out loud "Not YOU again!...you're so full of Shi#...I don't believe in you OR need you any more,so you can go now"
You can beat this and all the rest of your symptoms in plenty of time befor eyou finish college.....tell us more...what have you done to work on the pstchological part? to de-condition yourself? to resume activity?
The more we know about you the easier it is to help you.We just lost a "member" who came on the board for about 4 months and always talked about his symptoms but never actually did anything to get better...and he didn't,even though he could intellectually digest the theory.
SO...tell us more.
peace
Baseball65 |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 08:56:51
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Welcome to the TMS board, Peaceful Warrior (great name). I'm sure you'll find that you are NOT a minority in that TMS began for you at the age of 18. When I was a kid, I lived in a very dysfunctional home which was chock FULL of yelling, spanking, screaming and hysteria. My parents kept our home freezing cold (we lived in Michigan - chilly!!) and we weren't allowed to touch the heat. Everything I ever wanted to do I was told "No" and if I dared to ask why it was "because I said so" but never an explanation. My parents were undoubtedly f----ed up! They probably should not have had children.
What I'm leading upto here is that from the time I was young, I had terrible headaches. Finally, they ran some tests (CAT scans I think) and found I was fine. Stomachaches were a daily thing for me, especially when at the age of 13 (we all know how awkward and scary the teenage years can be) we moved and I had to leave all the great friends I had just made in junior high behind. That's when the stomach thing really started to rear it's ugly head. I'm sure this was ALL TMS. There is no doubt in my mind. In fact, what better time for it to begin manifesting than when you are an unsuspecting, innocent kid?
Again, welcome and I hope this board helps you as much as it has me. It is a great place to come to and get answers as well as comfort.
Laura
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 09:28:43
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Peaceful Warrior,
Since you are new to the board, I would recommend maybe just lurking for a while and reading the archived past posts. I didn't do my first post for weeks or more until I read all the archived posts. That's what I did when I first found this board. All your fundamental questions will be answered by just reading the archived posts. Then if you have a unique problem it may be addressed. Herniated discs have been discussed here many times and is the core of Sarno's books. I would re-read those. Go to the links and BUY all the TMS tapes, videos, books and do your homework. To read about a personality type that will not accept TMS theory, read the archived posts by MRosenthal, TMSPain, DiskPain. Board members spent many hours of heartfelt time responding to his questions on the same topic "herniated disc". And he burned us, actually he was all the same person. So in order to prevent us from getting board burnout, I would recommend reading the archived responses to this interesting psychological specimen. The heartfelt resposes to his herniated disc are just as applicable to yours. Then when you have some more specific questiosns that aren't answered in the FAQS feel free to ask them. Peaceful Warrior that's the best advice I can give you at the momemet since I wasted so much time on MATT. It would probably be good advice for Sarno Soldier also. I like these new names that have been appearing on the board recently. Lot's of new young TMS fighters. But I will no longer post to anyone who does not put their e-mail address in their bio. |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 10:30:54
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Welcome to the site, Peaceful Warrior - love the name, by the way.
I usually agree with Tennis Tom, but in this instance, I think that it may not be enough to read the posts - everyone reacts differently, I know, but, when someone finds something that they really think may be of great help to them, they want to get involved straight away. That's what I did. Reading past posts and lurking would have had less impact than what I actually did. The feedback from people who know exactly what we are talking about is invaluable. Yes, reading is good - but discussing is better - that's what I feel anyway.
There is more than one way to skin a cat (as my grandmother used to say) - it all depends on what you think would be most helpful for you, Peaceful Warrior.
I'm a lot older than eighteen, but I'm pretty sure that I have suffered in this way for most of my life - ailments that bothered me for ages and only went away when something else reared its ugly head.
Your post is positive and your determination shows through - you're on the right track.
Very best wishes
Anne |
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UK james
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 11:31:20
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PW
I am 26 now but my tms symptoms started when I was 13 after my parents spilt and I had to change schools as a result (pressure!). Since then I have suffered from:
- Painful heels at about 13
- Groin strains from about 16-20
- Backpain from about 20-25
During what should have been some of my best years with happiest memories, I was physically restricted and in a load of pain (no sport etc). However, I can't go back and am just grateful that I have learnt about tms now and can have a better future.
I think that when you get tms depends on your upbringing - if you are in a loving, supportive family environment you will probably be ok, if not you may repress emotions like I certainly did.
Since learning about tms I have been 95% better with the occasional flare up but NOTHING compared to what I used to get.
James |
Edited by - UK james on 01/21/2005 11:35:02 |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 13:26:35
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Hello, Peaceful Warrior!
I I've had TMS in one form or another since I was about 20. I'm 37 now.
I totally agree with Alex in terms of planning to be healthy, rather than planning to be in pain. Visualization works in many different areas of life, but you have to focus on what you want, rather than on what you don't want. I've only realized this very recently. |
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Louise
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 14:08:03
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Oh yeah, I developed what I now realize was TMS when I was in college. I had intense knee pain in my left knee, the same knee that I later had surgery for torn cartilege. It's still my hardest spot to kick, although the knee pain disappeared when I had horrible sciatic pain, so I know that it's TMS. I look back on it now and realize that at the time of my onset of knee pain, my mother was about a year away from dying from cirrhosis of the liver from chronic alcoholism. I now realize now that at that time, my growing up and away from her was making her even more miserable so she drank more and more. So, add guilt to the already potent mixture of spreading my wings and testing my independence, the pressure of figuring out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life, classes, grades, dating, sex, and two constantly fighting alcoholic parents, and yes, TMS reared its' ugly head!
I just wish that I had heard of TMS back then, but I don't think that Dr. Sarno had written his first book at that time (20+ years ago!).
Good luck. Work on de-conditioning yourself with that morning pain. Just say "whatever" or "F-off" to it - don't pay any attention to it beyond that. It really does work.  |
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lobstershack
Australia
250 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 21:55:04
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Hey Peaceful Warrior,
Don't despair; I developed full-blown TMS at age 17 (I'm 23 now), but suffered from symptoms for many years before that--just nothing of a chronic nature. I'm relatively new to the board and have found it to be a tremendous help. And remember, it's healthy to vent your feelings on this board, don't shy away--I did just that in the beginning and slowly worked myself up to posting almost everday. In fact, I look forward to it. We're in this fight together. Good luck!
Seth |
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Peaceful Warrior
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2005 : 23:17:30
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Hey all, I hope I'm doing this right..hitting the reply button to my own original message with the same topic. I'm really thrilled to see the enthusiam with which you all want to help me and every one else. I had a much better today, I'm sure part of it was due to hearing from you all and part of it b/c my job interviews etc came to an end after a busy week. I don't know why this idea of starting work causes so much pain. In fact, I never had an inkling of knee pain until i started an internship this past summer, it literally would come with intensity as soon as i entered the office everyday, although the internship ended in august, the pain's been there since. I really have a lot of warrior attitude today and I hope it continues. What do you guys do when for some reason the pain comes back reallly bad after you've had some "good" days?, it's hard to stay as positive and upbeat
To answer some of your questions, I have read both main TMS books but twice each,I'm guessing I should read them more? I try and meditate every day and say positive affirmations throughout the day (I got these from Louise Hay's book which I saw someone had mentioned, I like her thoughts a lot.) I try to do things that I would never do before, like sitting on the floor, in fact it's so funny that I've conditioned my mind to now think sitting on the floor is more comfortable than a chair! I go to the gym to use the cardio machines and I stretch. I clean my place and do dishes and laundry.....all these are things I was too scared to do before. However, I've been doing all this for the past 8 months but not much relief overall, although I must say there is some. What else do I need to be doing??? Unfortunatley, yes, all three (neck, back, and knee are present at one time) back is basically all day long, neck is only the left side and is the least debilitating, knee pain is whenever I sit at a computer (haha!) and in classes and whenever anything about starting work after college comes up. I don't even know why I have this fear, it's so ridiculous. I mean, my grades are great, and I'm doing so well in job interviews. The craziest thing is (forgive me if I seem like I'm boasting) but things are going really great for me. That's the mystery, when things are going well why do I have these fears and stuff?
I'm surely going to try the tip about telling the pain to get away from me in the morning, thanks.
I would like to know if most of you have helped yourself through your own efforts, or did you see a TMS doctor or attend lectures and group sessions etc. Also, I didn't know any tapes, videos existed, how do I get these???
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2005 : 07:28:20
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| Happy events cause a great deal of stress.Your unconscious brain is not logical.I had a great deal of success with tms but I never really discovered most of the reasons for it.You have the right attitude and will be successful.I personally believe 3/4's of my tms is childhood initiated.Keep reading the book(s) as your unconscious brain will relate to the information as time goes by,even though you may not realize it.If you believe in the system it will work as well as you want it to.Try not to over due the mind sesrching and just have faith it will work.I got a great deal of benefit from seeing a tms Doctor(Dr.Sopher)as it was very benefitial to have a Doctor diagnose you and tell you ,you are fine and the pain is harmless.Good luck,Paul. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2005 : 09:01:00
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Hello Pault,
Did the TV feature on TMS you were involved with a while back get aired? How did it go? If it did is there any way to stream it on the board?
Regards,
tt
PS: If I recall you have an automotive repair shop or are a mechanic. I gave my mechanic a copy of Sarno years ago when he complained of back-pain. It helped him. We haven't discussed it since but he does't appear to have any more pain. Do you specialize in a particular make of car? |
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 05:03:18
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| Hi T.T. it went well.Most of the viewers in the Boston/Cape area of Ma.I find it tough to look at because I hate seeing myself in pictures,so this is worse.I sent copys to Susie,Ed if you would like a copy let me know.I think Ed was going to get them put on disc,and cut out the ads.I have two options,one with Verizon,one with Mac which allows me to create a site for displaying pictures etc. I will see if I can put it on and let you know.Anybody have suggestions on airing movies on line? We fix all models but favor Toyota's,Japanese cars.Heading to work now,I will be back on line later. Thanks Paul. |
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Peaceful Warrior
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 21:44:52
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Hi all,
Thanks for replying and stuff. I was doing much better over the weekend but I'm really having a horrible time the past couple days. It's tough to not get depressed at times like this. I just can't believe that it started out as back pain which was enough to deal with, but now I have the neck and knee pain, all 3 at once, I feel like an invalid sometimes!!
I must clarify that its not really pain in the knees, its the front of the lower thighs right above the knees and boy does it hurt!! But I know there's nothing "wrong" simply because of how it started only when I was doing an internship b/c I had so much anxiety and its completely related to my stress/worry levels and conditioning. When I come home and watch TV the pain subsides to decent levels but when I go to class, its almost unbearable. And, the stupidest thing of all, whenever I sit at my desk at home it comes within 1 minute!!!!...but not necessarily if I sit at some other desk. The neck and back pain is more constant throughout the day and not so obviously determined/caused by what I'm doing at that point in time.
I too saw a TMS doctor, but it bothers me that reading the books and seeing him havent helped me that much. I know we're not supposed to feel guilty, like we're doing this to ourselves, but I can't help but get mad at myself for responding better to this treatment although I know what I have is TMS. Could some of you please tell me how long it took you to get relief after reading the books and/or seeing a tms dr?
I think one obstacle getting in the way of my being cured since I found out about tms has been this idea in my head that this is a really hard thing to do, to control the mind. It's really lodged in my head that I have such a difficult task to undertake that most people dont have to do. I mean, do you guys think its hard?
I'm a little confused about how many of you have actually seen substantial relief. I'm assuming that if you're still here in the forum, then you still have recurrent attacks or something, but I could very well be wrong, you could just be here to help the rest of us who haven't made it yet!
On another note, I get this feeling that all of us could really help so many people in the future who suffer from tms or any psychosomatic problems. Perhaps we're lucky to have this condition, for we can truly help others in the same position better when we've experienced it for ourselves.
I've ordered the dvds and cds, hopin' they'll help...ahhh this stupid mind of mine!
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 23:13:00
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peaceful warrior,
There is an inconsistency in your posts. If you saw a TMS doctor why would you see another doctor? Which TMS doctor did you see? What did he tell you?
_____________________________________________________________________
1/25/05
"I too saw a TMS doctor, but it bothers me that reading the books and seeing him havent helped me that much."
________________________________________________________________
1/21/05
" I had just scheduled a dr appt for tomorrow which could have really set me back on my whole "mission" as a warrior fighting this whole thing, i'm so thankful that i found this forum, reading some of the messages has convinced me to cancel my appt first thing in the morning."
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Peaceful Warrior
12 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 23:25:35
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TT,
Let me clarify, I saw the TMS dr. a few months ago. I of course didn't see any drs. after that, but just last week was when I really broke down and couldn't handle the pain anymore so I decided to try out seeing my GP to see if he could recommend a kinisieologist as I heard about someone who was really helped by kinisielogy. I guess I thought some physical therapy to complement this tms treatment may be helpful, but I'm glad I didn't go...thanks to finding this forum! The doc I saw was John Sklar who was personally taught by Sarno, he was really nice. He said its surely TMS, without a doubt. He strongly recommened the daily reminders and daily meditation. I did start the meditation for over a month,but don't do it necessarily every day...same with the daily reminders. See, I feel that if I MUST do these like rituals each day, then I feel that there is something in fact wrong with me and that's why I have to do these things, then if I forget or don't have time, I feel guilty or bad that I didn't do it. This in itself is added stress for me, and I'm really trying to limit my stress levels!!! What do you (and any one esle) think on this point of doing the meditation and/or reminders daily as a "must do thing"?
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 23:43:19
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| PW, I recommend you go back to your TMS doctor and get a referal to a psychotherapist. Short of that read Sarno's books. No where does he reccommned PT. You seem very confused about TMS theory. Read the books again, you are missing the point. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 08:52:19
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| Peaceful Warrior -- if the TMS Doc says to do the daily reminders and meditation, then just do it. Once your pain levels decrease, maybe you can gradually reduce the frequency of the "rituals". If you miss a day, I doubt that you will ruin your pain elimination program. You'll just have to face and float through your irrational guilt on those days you miss the "rituals." Don't let these unconfortable feelings of guilt sabotage your anti-TMS program. That's just what your tricky brain would like -- for you to give up and keep the distraction process that you're used to going on indefinitely. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 09:10:35
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| Regarding TMS psychotherapy, I found it interesting and reassuring, that Don Dubin, said on Schechter's tapes, that the most sessions he had to have with a TMS patient was 15, to help them. |
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