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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2005 : 11:33:50
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Help! I need some input here and I need it fast. Things have been going pretty well for me lately, as far as my dizziness goes. I've been digging deep into my childhood (mostly talking about it on the dizziness thread I started months ago) and it seems to be helping.
Anyway, my so called "best" friend has not been behaving like a friend at all over the past year. I realized recently that I'm just not important to her anymore and that the relationship has deteriorated. A friendship that isn't nurtured and given proper attention will die, just as a plant that is deprived of sunlight and water dies. When I realized that I was doing all the work to keep the relationship going, I finally took my husband's advice and stopped calling. I wanted to see if the phone ever rang and if she made any efforts toward spending time with me. Well, it's been close about 5 weeks now, and the phone hasn't rung. In fact, over the past half a year or so the only time I did see my friend was when we drove to our hair appointment together. I would set it up so we could go at the same time. It's about a 20 minute drive so it gave us time to talk. I soon realized that I was the one setting up the appointment and making the efforts for us to spend time together. And not only that, that was the ONLY time I saw my friend. Meanwhile, I would hear about all the fun things she was doing with everyone else that I wasn't included in. There have been rude comments made and many situations in which she has not acted like a friend.
The straw that broke the camel's back for me was an incident that just took place recently. She and I are both planning for our childrens' bar/bat mitzvahs. Her son is having his bar mitzvah at the end of February and my daughter's bat mitzvah is in June. This "friend" gets together with all her wonderful "new" friends from her temple and they plan their parties, etc. together. Recently, I was at dinner at a local restaurant and there she was with all these women. One of the women doesn't even go to her temple so I know it's not an exclusive thing that is only for members of her own temple. As I was leaving I stopped by their table to say hello and the one lady who I know said to me "You have a bat mitzvah coming. You should be here with us." Mind you, my friend didn't say a word and she never included me to begin with. This is in contrast to how I treated her two years ago when my oldest daughter had her bat mitzvah. I called and asked her advice and I included her in the planning.
What this long story is leading upto is that yesterday we received an invitation to their son's long awaited bar mitzvah. My husband, who has up until this point said that "she's not your friend" and "The next time she calls you should tell her to f--- off," says to me "I want to go." He doesn't understand why this has me so angry. He claims that it's a good place for him to mingle and "get leads" (he's a loan officer in a new job). He also said "I'd like to see what their kid can do." The reason he said this is because after our older daughter's bat mitzvah two years ago, this "friend" of mine made a rude comment. My daughter did a flawless job and I know there is a lot of jealousy on this friend's part, so that comment was completely untrue.
Am I crazy here or what? I've had three of my friends tell me I'm not. One actually called me last night after I e-mailed her. She was concerned about me thinking about it all night and she wanted to give me her opinion. She said "That relationship is not healthy for you. She is not your friend. You owe her nothing. Just send the RSVP card back and check off that you will not be attending, no explanation. You owe her nothing." She also said that she disagrees with my husband and that he's just thinking like a guy and not taking my feelings into consideration. She also said that he needs to support me, since this was my friendship and I'm the one who is being hurt by this person.
The thing is, after I had a big argument with my husband about it yesterday, I got into the shower and while I was standing there I felt the dizziness come on again. It only lasted a few seconds but I realized that this thing is getting to me more than I realized. The dizziness is simply a barometer to measure how bad the stress gets.
The problem is, the goodist in me keeps feeling guilty for the fact that I'm not going, even though I know it's the right thing to do. Some words of encouragement would be very helpful right now, as I'm still a little ticked off at my husband and I'm feeling confused.
Thanks everyone!
Laura
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 12:58:32
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Go only if you want to go.
You don't owe your ex friend anything.
If your husband wants to network, can't he go by himself?
If you do go, you might consider not even saying hi to your ex friend. Just eat the food and let your husband make connections.
If your ex friend doesn't want to put time into having a relationship with you, then forget about her. Only a friend that truly cares about you and wants to connect with you if worth having.
Her lack of enthusiasm isn't a reflection on you. Probably has to do with her hang ups.
I once lost a friend, partly because he got tired of hearing about my back (this happened a couple of years ago, before I heard of Dr. Sarno). If he only knew what it's like. The narcissist in me wishes that he'd get back pain some day, so that he'd understand how wrong it was for him to be so ununderstanding. And it's okay that the narcissist in me feels this way. It's only human to have varied feelings about things, including negative feelings.
Be true to yourself first. Look out for yourself, because the only person that has to live with your physical problems is you. |
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holly
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 14:11:21
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Laura,
I agree totally with your friend! I wouldn't go and I wouldn't send a gift either (or send a very small one if you feel you must). This woman is NOT you friend! You sound so much like me. I know it is hard not to try and do what you think is "good". I am slowly learning to try and not give a ---- so much anymore with some of these women. I preach my mothers words to you " don't expect too much and you won't get dissapointed". I now tell that to my 7th grade daughter. I watch her being treated so inconsideratly by most of these 7th grade girls. I so often wonder if any of their mothers try to guide them as to how to treat their friends.
Do what is best for you. Everyone is just thinking of themselves in your world including your husband (men tend to just do that, even good men). Start using your gut instinct. It is always true!  |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 14:55:10
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Hi Laura,
Do what you want to. If your husband wants to go, let him. If your "friend" asks where you are, you can tell him to say, you were feeling dizzy.
It sounds like you are her "haircut" friend. A lot of people are "users" and she sounds like she only plugs you in when she needs something, like a ride to the hairdresser. LOSE HER. Let your husband use her for some networking and maybe bring you home some bacon, (that doesn't sound too kosher, does it?). |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 15:34:52
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Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone!!! I can always count on the wonderful people on this board to give me their unbiased opinions. I really appreciate your quick responses, as I'm feeling overwhelmed by all of this.
After I posted this in the morning, my husband called and we had another big blowout about it (I think there are bigger issues under all this and the stupid bar mitzvah is just an excuse to argue). My husband thinks that if we don't go to this event and I basically sever the relationship with this friend then we, as a couple, "won't be invited to any parties or anything in the future" i.e. because other couples we know will not invite both of us knowing we are no longer friends. Is that the dumbest pile of crap you have ever heard? OY, VAY!!!!! Anyway, I'm sending off the response with the box checked "Will not attend" and I'm done with it. I cannot make everyone else happy at the expense of my own health. I've done it for too long. My husband will not go alone, it's all or nothing, and that's fine because I don't want him to go. Men are just so different than women. He claims he is "unemotional" about it and to him it's just a party to go to and laugh at what idiots these people are. To me, it's like having an open wound and pouring salt into it. This friend doesn't give me the time of day and then I'm supposed to go to her party and "just have a good time." I am not capable of putting on an act with people like that. Either we're friends or were not, it's just that simple. If we are, then I am part of your life and we talk together, laugh together, cry together, and spend time together. If not, I'll move on and find some new friends.
Thank you again to all of you. I thank God I have this support system and don't know what I would do without it.
Laura
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Louise
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 15:36:39
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Laura -
You don't owe this former "friend" anything, so if you don't want to go, don't go. As others have said, your husband can attend by himself if he wants to make business connections.
I'd bet you that a lot of us have problems turning off our goodist tendencies. I can't tell you how many rooms that I have painted, decorated or wallpapered for friends. I've sewn pillows, refinished furniture, and more for people. They always call me for help, which appeals to my self-esteem, but then I get angry with myself for giving to others when I make it a point to NEVER ask them for help. (Gee, this would probably be a good subject to journal about!)
Anyway, I think that you and I and probably LOTS of us need to start standing up for ourselves and saying NO to people mis-treat us.
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Ginag
51 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 16:07:13
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| Laura, After 35 years of marriage, I've learned that in many instances men "haven't a clue." They just don't get it. Your hubby is thinking purely with his head. He's being practical. I'm married to a man just like that. I can't begin to tell you the arguments over similar things. What I will say is that I have finally come to the conclusion that their actions are not a reflection of their love and concern for us. They love us but they are just clueless when it comes to the emotional aspect of things. So try to chill, sit down with him, and let him know how much this "friend" has hurt you and that you would truly appreciate his support in this difficult decision. Good Luck!! Gina |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 22:04:05
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Laura,
Have you ever spoken to her about all this and how you feel? You are asking for advice from us and I frankly don't believe we know enough about the whole situation to even begin thinking about what to say to you. I'm not saying I don't believe your version of what's been going on but it is only one side of the story.
This friendship is obviously important to you or you wouldn't be worrying about it so much that it is causing you physical symptoms.. You must have had a really good relationship once or else she wouldn't be your best friend and for those reasons if for no other why don't you tell her how you feel and clear the air. Then you can decide what you want to do and give it closure if that is really what you want. That or you will keep fretting. Of course the relationship as it stands is no good for you both for your mind and your body.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 01/14/2005 22:18:02 |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 05:42:03
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Laura,
I don't think you're going crazy. I do think this is difficult situation and that some of your hurt and anger towards your friend might be getting channelled towards your husband.
It's a crazy-making scenario and I'm not surprised that you're feeling confused.
I agree that it's pretty insensitive of him to suddenly want to go to the party. I'm sure you feel betrayed, hurt and angry. And you have every right to! At the same time, I'm not sure I agree with your friend who says that your husband "needs to support you". Maybe, maybe not - but as it appears that he's not going to, that just sounds like a recipe for more bad feeling. YOU NEED TO SUPPORT YOURSELF. You can't make him do anything he's not going to do.
I'm inclined to agree with Mala. You must feel extremely hurt and angry that your "best friend" given you the brush-off like this. It has clearly affected you deeply. It doubtless brings up all sorts of feelings from your past related to abandonment. Whether or not you decide to talk to your friend is up to you, but I think there are feelings here which - one way or another - need to be expressed to the right person. It sounds like some of then are currently being expressed to your husband.
Have you read "Facing the Fire"? If not, please do! If you have, read it again. He deals with these kinds of issues very sensitively and provides tons of incredibly helpful ways to experience and understand your anger (and to let it out of your body). |
Edited by - Hilary on 01/15/2005 05:42:39 |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 11:33:46
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Thank you for your input. I just wrote a whole post and then the screen came up and asked me to log on and become a member, which I've been for some time. That was very strange. Anyway, I'll try to do this again.
Yes, I'm sure some of my anger at my friend is being channeled at my husband. The two of them share this one quality that drives me crazy and that I've never understood. In my husband's instance, I've never felt that he stands behind me in the decisions I make and does not support me. He knows this is a bone of contention for me and yet he is crazy enough to assert we should indulge ourselves in this idiotic display (and it will be a display - she will be displaying her new, wonderful friends and the party will be a "how can we outdo you" sort of thing. I honestly think having a root canal would be more fun!) For pretty much our entire 20 years of marriage I have told him repeatedly that it hurts to feel like your spouse isn't on your side and isn't backing you up. Repeatedly, he has the opportunity to step up to the plate and be the husband I know he can be. I told him that if he was experiencing a situation like this with a friend I would never in a million years even suggest he torchure himself by going. That's what husbands and wives do for each other. It's called support.
My "friend" possesses similar qualities in that she loves playing devils advocate with me. In other words, if I dare to express to her how I feel about something someone has done or a hurt I am feeling, she will take the opposing point of view as if she is siding with that person. With her I feel the same lack of support as I do with my husband. Obviously, this has all struck a nerve and since I couldn't just let her have it, well, I let him have it instead. It's like I want to put the two of them in front of me and ask point blank "WHERE THE HELL IS YOUR LOYALTY?????"
To answer your question, Mala, about whether or not I've ever expressed to her how I feel. Yes, only a zillion and one times. This type of situation has come up with us before and I have told her how it makes me feel when she does these things. It doesn't seem to matter. It's like banging your head on a wall, the result is always the same. I think the things that originally brought us together as friends no longer exist and her need to have me as a close friend also no longer exists. She moved in next door to me 13 years ago from out of town and she had no one here. I befriended her because I thought she was nice and because I had just converted to Judaism prior to my wedding and thought it would be wonderful to have a Jewish friend. We needed each other. I introduced her to people and she met a whole bunch of new friends. We called ourselves Lucy and Ethel and we truly thought of ourselves as sisters. I once gave her a magnet that read "Friends are the family we choose for ourselves." I truly believe that and because neither of us had any friends around and were isolated from our families, it had special meaning for both of us. Those days are long gone.
And, yes, you are only going to hear one side of the story because I'm telling it, not her. She thinks TMS is a bunch of hogwash and refuses to buy into any of it. But it doesn't matter if you hear two sides to the story because the facts are the facts. This is a person who has moved on with her life when she no longer required my assistance in meeting new people. She has her brand new temple and her brand new temple friends, and they pretty much rule her life. There is an expression and I think it goes something like this: In order to have a friend you have to BE a friend. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't think "friends" make you feel bad, insult your family, compete with you in everything they do and try to outdo you, tell you about all the great fun they are having with everyone else BUT you, make excuses every time you try to get together, let you do all the work and never pick up the phone to call you.
There was a song we all learned as children. I have always thought the words were very important and have taught my own daughters the importance. The song goes "Make new friends but keep the old, one is silver and the others gold." Some people almost seem to make it their mission to meet as many new people they can and then talk about them and carry their names around almost like trophies. My "friend" is one of those people. And that's okay, as long as you remember your old friends too. As for me, if I'm your friend you have me for life. It takes a lot to screw things up with me. I'm sure my childhood upbringing has a lot to do with that. I can put up with a lot and not make a big deal about it. But this has reached a point where I'm saying ENOUGH.
I've done a great deal of soul searching over the past couple of days and this board has really helped me to get a clear head. This person I've talked about here is no longer my friend and there is no reason to be emotional about it. The friendship is over. My marriage, however, is not. So, I think I will channel my energy into making it better.
Thanks everyone for your input. And now I think I'll go have a great day and spend some quality time with my kids!
Laura
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 15:14:50
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After thinking this over for the past few days, I was finally able to take the response card and check off "will not attend." That is the answer I keep coming back to in my mind and therefore is the answer I must honor for my own health and well being. My friends, who have been extremely supportive, said that it was important not to give reasons why we will not be attending because, as they say, "that gives the other person power over you. Don't give up your power." It is always my nature to explain and analyze things to death. I don't know why I would even think I owe this person an explanation for anything. Has she explained to me why she has "abandoned ship" so to speak. The last time I talked to her, five weeks ago, was only because I called her to see if she was going with me to our "hair appointment," which she was not. Had I not called, I'm not sure if she would even have let me know. (Thank God I wasn't depending on her for a ride.) So, I took my friends' advice and wrote nothing. Now, I will just go forward with my life, feeling secure in my decision and not looking back.
By the way, my back is really flaring up today. I wonder if it has anything to do with "not feeling supported" by my hubby. I'm pulling out my Sarno books and reading. Let the journaling begin!
Laura
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 16:21:43
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Hi Laura. I just read this string for the first time. I just want to say how much I agree with your decision not to go to the party, and also with your friend's advice to give no reason. You don't owe that to her.
It is really tough to lose someone who was a friend, but thank goodness you have others who seem to genuinely care about you. i have experienced friendships based on temporary need many times in my life. It is painful when you realize that the friendship no longer exists, but the only thing you can do for yourself is to move on. I would also second the recommendation to read "Facing the Fire", if you haven't already. It gives some wonderful ways to get rid of the natural anger that accompanies a loss such as this. Also remember that there is some grieving involved, just as there is in a death or divorce. Let yourself feel the grief as you move on, and know that it will be replaced with joy, and perhaps new friendships, when you are done.
Carol |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 20:09:57
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Thanks, Carol. You always have words of encouragement and believe me, I'm needing them today. I feel at this moment like I've hit rock bottom in my life. I'm so angry at my husband I just can't get past it, and not just about the situation I wrote about on here. I just found out something that he did that I'm really upset about, something I don't want to talk about on here. You have no idea how much it helps me to get positive feedback from the members on this board. I know I made the right decision with my friend and I'm not going to look back. Now I need to roll up my sleeves and get to work on some things in my marriage!
Laura
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Ginag
51 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 01:23:38
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| Hi Laura- I just can't believe it...For 35 years of marriage, the one thing my husband and I always fight about is his lack of loyalty in supporting me. I'm always wrong - no matter what. When I read your posting regarding this, I was stunned. Your thoughts on the subject are exactly my feelings. The coincidences we share are incredible!! Gina |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 05:09:26
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Laura, it sounds like you've made exactly the right decision about your friend. I know this doesn't help much, but I'm glad that you can come here to verbalize how furious you are with your husband.
You will find your way through this! In addition to working it through mentally, consider doing something physical to start getting that anger out of your body. I find that techniques like hitting a pillow, or thumping a rolled-up towel against a wall, or screaming in your car truly help.
Please keep posting about how you're doing.
Hilary |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 08:36:18
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Hi Laura.
Wow...I would call you crazy,except I coached little league Baseball for 3 years(LOL!!)
Your story would be one of mine if you inserted BaseBall in to the Bar mitvah slot.As parents we get into a lot of "friendships" we ordinarily wouldn't get in except for our children.
I am basically your thug,go for throat type of little league coach.I was loathed around the field,ESPECIALLY because I was a Good sport....never yelling,liked by the kids,etc.I always won,and that made me very UNpopular."He's too agressive" "He doesn't rotate his players" "He's not teaching them good sportsmanship"
Once a year,in "All stars" everybody made nicey nicey with each other as our kids had to play together to win championships.This was a TMS carnival...backs and necks going out right and left.......people who were sworn enemies 11 months out of the year had to "act mature" and be nice to each other.
When we have children,it is Hard to set a good example AND let the child inside of us air it out,so TMS,or dizziness or some other condition doesn't kick in.This story is NOT trivial,because it is the Reality you live in,so it is VERY real.
You're not crazy,or everybodies crazy and it has no meaning.
The important thing I learned,is to make sure and hit paper,journal,NO matter how childish the anger seems......we never really grow up,we just get older!!
The fact that you can be this candid about it is good.Make sure you can also keep that teenie little eye in the sky perspective that sees the whole play,not just the part you were assigned.
BTW...I giggled when I read this...because I'm everywhere in your post!!!!
Baseball65 |
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 16:26:02
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Laura, it is really sad that your husband does not support you emotionally, or understand how you feel about this issue. My first husband, who I was married to for 10 years, never supported me in any way. That was only one of many problems. In fact my TMS equivalents started in ernest during the marriage - migraines, reflux, and severe allergy attacks. I continued to have migraines for several more years, in fact until I started with the dizzies, but the allergy attacks stopped when we divorced.
I am now married to a wonderful man who supports me in every way. We will celebrate our 31st anniversary in March, and I am sometimes still in disbelief that we found each other. We are true soulmates! That having been said, there are times when I get so mad at him that I have to get my wiffle bat from the closet and beat the h--- out of my mattress. I hope your problems with your husband are of that nature, and can be worked out.
I wonder if counseling might help him to see that he is not giving you the support you need. It doesn't always help. I badgered my first husband into going to counseling, but it didn't help the marriage. It did help me to understand how I made such a bad mistake in my choice of husband though. Although I am divorced, I still believe that marriage should be saved whenever possible. As I said in a previous post, my children suffered greatly because of the divorce. They also suffered because of the things that happened before the divorce, so I guess it was really a no win situation.
Carol |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 16:41:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol
I wonder if counseling might help him to see that he is not giving you the support you need. It doesn't always help. I badgered my first husband into going to counseling, but it didn't help the marriage. It did help me to understand how I made such a bad mistake in my choice of husband though. Carol
Actually Carol, that sounds really helpful! |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 23:58:20
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Carol,
Thanks for your response. Things are better today. We talked about everything and I'm feeling better about our relationship. I've mentioned counseling to him several times but we never actually have pursued it. I may just end up making us an appointment one of these days and forcing him to go. I know that he has some control issues, i.e. wanting to control me and everything and everyone in our home. At least things are much more tolerable today. My husband is basically a good guy but there are times when he is so dense I cannot even believe the things he says. From talking to other women, I know I'm not alone in this. Guys are guys. They just are not always going to be sensitive and they tend to say the "wrong" thing. I'm also wound up a little bit tight this week from all the stress. I'm going to go chill out now and relax. I'm glad the fighting is over (for now!). I guess when you have a passionate marriage your fights tend to be passionate as well.
Thanks for your advice.
Laura
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 08:50:42
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Laura, I couldn't help but chuckle at your comment that you can't believe some of the things that come out of his mouth. My daughter said almost the same thing about my son-in-law when she told me about their marital problems. He is also a good guy, and they are trying to work things. I sure hope they do, first because I love my son-in-law, second because I worry about the effect that a break-up would have on my grandsons, and last but certainly not least, because I know what life is like for a single mom and I don't want my daughter to have to deal with the things that I did. She does have one big thing going for her, and that is a really good support system that includes us and lots of good friends. I had no support system at all when my husband moved out. We had just moved to a new city, 100s of miles from my family and many miles from his. I didn't know a single person in the area, so the breakup was pretty tough. I keep telling myself that it would not be so bad for her, but emotionally I feel almost as though I will relive it through her if the marriage fails.
Well - I didn't intend to get into that but I guess I sure did.
Carol |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 00:20:45
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Gina, Baseball65, and Hilary,
Somehow I missed your earlier posts. Duh!!! Thanks for your encouragement. Gina, I think you and I were definitely separated at birth.
Here's the update on the "friend" issue. I sent the RSVP card with "will not attend" checked off. That was on Saturday. Monday was obviously a holiday so I knew she would receive the card back today. Sure enough, this afternoon my daughter called my cell phone and told me that she had just left a message. When I got home, I couldn't believe what I heard, although in hindsight it should have been pretty much what was to be expected. The message was "I can't believe you're not coming," "Is everything okay?" "I'm concerned about this" and "I hope everything is alright." Throw in "I know I haven't talked to you in awhile" (over five weeks!!!) "but I've been really busy planning the bar mitzvah" (I'm planning one too but I still have time for my friends. Add to that "I've been having to take my mother around" (her mom needs her to take her to dr. appoints. etc.) and, my personal favorite, "I knew you went on vacation in December. I was waiting for you to call me." Like I said, OY VAY!!!!
My husband and I were having a date night tonight and I told him about it in the car. Of course, he asked "Are you going to call her?" I think he still has this glimmer of hope I'll call her and everything will be hunky dory (with him closing all sorts of deals). I told him I'm probably not going to call her, because I don't owe her anything. At the same time, I'd LOVE to tell her what I truly think of her behavior. What is really confusing, is that while I was listening to the message I almost believed it and almost felt like I'd made the mistake (which I know is not true!!!) It's that old self-doubt creeping up again, making you second guess yourself.
Maybe I'll write her a letter and unload and then burn it. As far as my answer to her about why I'm not going, I think if I'm forced to talk to her I'll just say I have other plans that weekend.
Laura
P.S. The dizziness has been pretty bad these past few days.
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Am I going crazy???
