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basil
52 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2010 : 10:47:06
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But I am so desperate I don't know what to do anymore. I am honestly on the verge of suicide. I am attending a day clinic as I actually reported my suicide intentions. They are trying to keep me safe for now but I cannot bare life like this anymore.
My arms hurt 24/7 and the Tms treatment has not worked for me. 2 and half years and only anti depressants took it away. Why does it not work for me????? I am so angry at being left behind. I am lost, all I do is cry and beg for it to stop. I honestly do not know how much more I can take.
I have lost my flat, my partner and on the verge of losing my job. Been off sick since November since coming off Anti depressants. Partner is pregnant and says I am useless to her like this, which I am.
I have seen 10 doctors, 1 neuro, 1 physio and 1 chiro in the last month. They have diagnosed me with anxiety and say there is no organic cause to my pain. Guess that's the best diagnosis but yet the pain still continues. Physio and chiro do say posture but are bewildered by lack of improvement.
I discovered sarno in June 2007 and have never made improvements apart from when taking anti depressants.
I had to go down the NHS route as I still had the pains and my family insisted. Physio says I don't even have symptoms of RSI as no loss of strength etc. Just same f*cking dull ache everyday. I smashed my room up last night and nearly broke my fingers on purpose, I need to be fixed. I am so embarrassed by this but I am lost.
The day clinic say I am experiencing psychosomatic pain caused by anxiety but it just never gets better. Switches arms everyday and sometimes my back.
The panic and fear just takes control of me. My mind constantly thinks about it and what it is. I know this is all against what I have read but how can I stop if I never improve. I am so scared.
I tried going back on anti d's but had an interaction with some herbal meds and I ended up manic for 1 month and admitted myself.
I see councilors everyday and saw someone a few times for my emotional abuse form my stepdad as a child. I am running out of money though.
I am off all meds and they refse to give me anything for the pain. I honestly feel like jumping off a bridge now.
I probably shouldn't be posting like this and its not fair on other people but I am so desperate. If I have gone to far expressing how I truly feel I will leave the forum. I do not want to make anyone feel uncomfortable.
If this hasn't worked for me where the hell do I go now? |
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sarita
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 12:21:33
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| you need to adress your anxiety. no the pain. the pain is part of your state. it sounds like you are focusing on your pain, you want your pain gone, you should want this anxiety and fear gone. the pain then will slowly leave you. that should be your goal. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 12:50:31
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I am so sorry, Basil, that you feel this way. I understand the desperation you feel. I have been there with prolonged, severe neck issues. Perhaps going back on anti-d's would be a good idea..It worked b4. Maybe you need to journal more and see a priest or rabbi every week to discuss your past & the connection to the present pain. They are free in most churches and synagogues. Lastly, prayer always works for me. I will pray for you later today. Hang in there. You are on the planet for a reason, we all are.
Blessings,
Karen |
Edited by - Singer_Artist on 01/11/2010 13:16:24 |
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Pd245
58 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:03:27
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| Basil - I am so sorry you're going through this. It feels so incredibly desperate. I don't know if it's appropriate to suggest this, but I was in a desperate situation with my chronic migraines, neck pain, IBS, and now a 6 month sinus infection. I couldn't control the catastrophic ruminations, crying spells and panic until I went on a longer acting anti anxiety drug. It has helped me so much with breaking the cycle of ruminating and obsessing over symptoms. It has also calmed down my entire nervous system. Antidepressants have never helped me with anxiety. Sometimes your body is in such extreme stress overdrive that the tools you've used in the past to control anxiety become less effective. You need to talk to a doctor to see what he/she thinks. I hope you get relief soon, please hang in there. |
Edited by - Pd245 on 01/11/2010 13:09:41 |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:11:29
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Basil
I'm sorry you're in such pain. As hard as it is please don't let it get the best of you.
Fear is only an indication that an issue needs to be addressed just like an alarm signal and you can keep it at that level, there is no need to turn it into more than that because it will never serve you well.
Problems come and go, you must believe it is possible to solve your problems one at a time and start with what you can do on your end even if it seems hopeless for a while. It may be much easier to solve the problems that led you to anxiety than to fix the symptoms of it. Anxiety will probably go away once the problems start to melt down.
Many other people have done it successfully. The fear can only be as big as you feel it is. You can try to look at it as a game you're gonna win and seek advice on how to do that. Ask someone who's done it if you can't find a way.
Anxiety is hard to fix but the good news is that it is often made of problems that are easier to fix if you ask the right person.
One thing at a time and first thing first.
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sarita
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:11:37
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with all due respect, i disagree with singer artist to a 90%. it is the anxiety that is causing this pain, the fear is perpetuating it, and it sounds like you are drowning in fear; and these things do not go away over night. 3 years ago, i started having the worst arm pain EVER. and how anxious i was! anti depressants take the fear away, therefore the pain. and IT IS OK TO TAKE THEM as a last resource (it sounds like you hate them, like you are talking about poison, and it is in a certain way, but you are creating MORE FEAR, MORE RESISTANCE by dreading them), but always on conjunction of therapy and knowledge and HOPE, along with a positive attitude.
you should think, "wait a second, this pain IS psychosomatic...mind altering drugs take it away, so from where do i start, what do i do". If you are thinking of suicide (and i am sorry to hear that) it means you are suffering SO much, you are sooo sensitized, you are on the verge of collaps.
TAKE HOPE. but you need to use your common sense, expand your knowledge, etc etc. i think it takes great effort and power of will to get better. perhaps hillbilly can help? sarnos thepry does not stand in contradiction with the fact that anxiety is the culprit. you have to find what is good for you. |
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campbell28
80 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:14:43
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Dear Basil,
I'm sorry that you are at this very low point. You mention that last time you went back on anti-depressants they interacted with some herbal medication. Have you now stopped taking that medication? If anti-depressants worked for you before it sounds like a. that is good proof that your pain is of mental rather than physical origin and b. they could work again if you make sure you are not on anything else that might interact.
I know that when you reach such depths of despair it is very hard to imagine that you will ever feel different ot get better, but you CAN. There are lots of people on this forum who are living proof of this: I also have friends who have reached the point of contemplating suicide and have come out of it again and are very glad they are still here.
It sounds like the pain and the thought of the pain has completely taken over. I know you say the TMS approach has not worked for you yet. Have you tried reading CLaire Weekes Self-Help for your Nerves? I found that very useful as an alternative way of understanding and dealing with physical symptoms of nervous breakdown. It is very difficult to see a way out when your brain is going round and round 24-7, but there are techniques that can help you.
AS something you can do immediately, try thinking under the pain. Whenever you feel your mind stuck in that cycle of 'is it hurting, why is it hurting, why won't it stop, it will never stop', THINK ABOUT YOUR EMOTIONS instead.
Instead of thinking ' why am I hurting physically', think: 'what might be hurting me emotionally. How do I feel underneath. Am I angry, am I sad. Why am I angry and sad'. Don't include your pain as a reason for feeling sad! look for all the other reasons. I know you said the TMS approach has not worked yet but many people find it takes a long time for it really to work for them and sink in. You need to break the cycle of pain and anxiety and this is a good way to start because it will get you thinking about something other than the pain.
Your brain and body are on this treadmill but you CAN make it stop. I am sure other people on the forum will be able to give more personal advice from their own experiences, but hope this helps a bit. You are not alone: other people have experienced what you are going through and they are better now: you can be too. I hope you experience some relief very soon. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:21:28
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Sarita,
This is about helping Basil, not beginning a debate with someone on here, namely me. I didn't say he should Definitely go back on anti'd and I didn't say that was the permanent answer either. I think the issue is anxiety/fear as well..I merely mentioned meds because he is thinking SUICIDE..that is pretty extreme.
Karen |
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sarita
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:23:03
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sorry if i sounded harsh!! its just that i have been there, too. i am not perfect yet. have you read murphy's power of the sunconscious mind? get it! and claire weekes, also. AND, i am just going to join the recovery groups of abraham low. i am sure you can find meetings where you are.
i insist, if you allow: your problem is called anxiety and FEAR, not pain. i know it because its me as well.
i wish you the best! sometimes we have to get to the lowest point to get truly better. |
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sarita
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:26:32
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| i really did not mean to start a debate AT ALL, singer artist. |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 13:27:55
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| Understood, Sarita..I think we all just want to help Basil right now..I hope/pray he is reading these posts..They are wonderful! |
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basil
52 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 14:46:45
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I am reading and appreciating this so much. There is so many kind and thoughtful people on this forum. I have been a bit of a nasty person from 16 and only now do I see true emotion and pain.
My mind has gone into overdrive. I just cannot stop it. I guess some people will be surprised at my reaction to not finding a physical cause for my pain. I am too. My family thought seeing a Neurologist would be the end of it and I was hoping for the same. I came out worse after being told to stop being silly by a privately paid specialist. He did say I had slightly hyper mobile arms which scared me. But then there is people doing circus tricks without pain. I think I am looking for that bulging disk or nerve damage but why? Even if I did find it I would still have to deal with it in the same manner as what Sarno says. Am I trying to self destruct? Punish myself for everything in my past that my stepdad did to me.
I am stuck in two explanations. Either the emotional abuse of my past or the anxiety I have placed my self under for the last 10 years (I am now 26). I do realise I have extreme health anxiety and worry about everything. The list of illnesses I thought I had is amazing since I was 16. Here's the thing if it was my legs I probably would got past this ages ago and it would not bother me, Maybe even my back. I am an artist by trade and my arms are everything to me. I can't do my job and that has scared me so much. It did back in 2007 at first but then I went on the meds and managed to get an amazing job. Got fat, so came off the meds to be back where I started. Admittedly I only took the meds and went on with my life. Never changed the stressors, the triggers, the thought patterns the obsessive behavior, the hate I hold for everything in the world. The more I think about it I am very angry person inside about the world but I have always distracted myself with computer games, chasing women and very high ambitions career wise.
Do I need to dig up my past and continually put myself through every situation or accept it and let it past, it never bothers me now. It happened and I survived and couldn't care less about him. He was a twat for what he did and he should be suffering with this not me.
As you can see so much is going through my head to what is causing this and I am driving myself insane. Maybe I should go back on the medication to get me through this as I really cannot hold out for more than a few hours of being positive. I have no spirituality, religion or hope in me. Just plain anger and hate for being a victim. I deconstructed religion so much and belittled people who are spiritual so much in the past that I feel guilty! But I do appreciate your prayers Karen, I am catholic and my family is religious. maybe I should consider picking up some scripture for solitude from this.
The medication let me enjoy things again and ignore the pain till it went, I was pain free for 10 months in 2009! I thought I was over it but it came back exactly the same as the previous year coming off.
Sarita said I consider medication to be toxic. I think I do now after stupidly reading too much online and other peoples opinions about healthcare. I have read too much and filled my head with too many peoples opinions. I don't feel me anymore or experience daily life. Like a zombie obsessing about a cure.
I think I have seriously lost the plot at the moment and maybe the only answer right now is anti depressants. I cannot rationalize anything or make a positive decision moving forward as I see it as having already failed. It all confuses me. Suicide enters my head daily so maybe for now I should give myself a break and just be medicated. Its not the cure but if it stops me from being like this.
By the way I took Paroxetine the day after stopping st johns wort (only taking 2 weeks) I was in what I can only describe as mania for a month. Did not sleep eat or calm down. Had to walk round the city center at 5am to work off the adrenalin. I spent one night rolling around on the floor screaming for mercy. They swapped me to citalopram which was the same and I have been off it all for 2 weeks now. Only now have I managed to sleep and eat. They gave me Knolopin (clonazepam) which I googled and refused to take. I am scared of everything at the moment!
Anyway typed a lot but I guess it helps to get it out. Maybe I should journal, I avoid it, only ever done it for a week. Maybe that's a clue to it all. Cant let it out.
I can type though with no changes in symptoms. Its all in my head!
My love goes out to all of you for replying, you don't know how much it means.
/edit. still considering to go see Georgie in the Uk Huddersfield for a TMS diagnosis but I am not sure its worth now having seeing so many Healthcare professionals tell me its all anxiety. Any thoughts?
Basil |
Edited by - basil on 01/11/2010 15:00:47 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 15:21:33
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Hi Basil,
I see even more of myself in you after reading your reply..You are not alone, my friend! I used to write novels on here when I was in acute pain..It's ok to get it out, that's why I suggested journalling. Getting a TMS Diagnosis sounds like a great idea! Then seeing a TMS therapist could really be your ticket to recovery! Wouldn't that be wonderful..That is my wish for you..
Prayers are still coming. I understand your lack of spirituality too..I have survived many tragedies in my life to those I love and to myself. And, btw, I am also an Artist! So we have that in common too..When my neck and wrists freak out I cannot paint either for a time..That is a devastation..
I promise, You will recover! I just know it..Please try and keep the faith, if not in God, then in your own ability to beat this! I believe you can. I go through cycles. I am actually in a pretty big set back right now as we speak. But, I know I will come out of it by applying the TMS principles..
Even if you don't feel conscious rage about your step dad, remember, the anger in the unconscious mind can wreak havoc w/ our bodies through the TMS process..
Hold on, friend..You are a survivor and you have your whole life ahead of you!!
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
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Gibbon
United Kingdom
138 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 15:25:54
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hiya Basil
I would definitly recommend speaking to Georgie - i found it useful for me. If you are attending a day clinic i assume you have been given access to counselling, if not then speaking over the phone can sometime be easier anyway - the Samaritans is 08457 909090 - they're available 24-7.
Short term the most important thing is to try and remove suicidal thoughts - so if doctors are recommending drugs to help then really i think you should listen to their advice. Of course, they are unlikely to be treating the cause of your depression - but if they help in terms of producing some more balance in your life, then you can then look to address the cause through TMS whilst on medication, with a long term goal of getting off the medication and also having addressed the cause of the depression.
hope this helps.... |
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sarita
130 Posts |
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sarita
130 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 15:35:02
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| all the best to you, and remember, your enemy is fear...that is the core of all ailments such as this...in my opinion. |
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tom
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2010 : 16:43:46
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PLEASE do not do anything drastic! 4 years ago i was in the very emotional state you are experiencing . I had just discovered Sarno by chance but it wasn't sinking in. I have dealt wih RSD ( i refuse to call it RSI because it is not an injury but a disorder)as a bi-product of TMS & I could'nt even bring myself to click a computor mouse. I got my daughter to type Schekner a letter as I dictated long distance. He repleyed & his last sentence was& I quote "there is hope". I have no idea why I clung to the word hope but I did. I believed him .Why at the time I'm not sure. I truly thought I was gone ,a hopeless case. The fact that I am sitting her typing & using a computor mouse is truly miraculious.From my experience I have narrowed it down to one driving force -fear. You have a great red flag to work with-the fact that the meds elimate the pain is clear proof it is not a pysical problem
tom |
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pandamonium
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2010 : 02:32:15
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Hi Basil,
Meds are not going to solve your problems but they can help for a while. This is confirmed by the fact that when you stopped your meds the pain returned. Meds are a crutch, that's all. The key though is whilst on meds to go to councelling and work through the real issues. If you do that properly then after time the meds could be reduced and eventually stopped completely and the pain will not return.
I would in the short term ring the Samaritans when you are feeling low or suicidal, they are free and a brilliant resource.
Second, keep posting on here, we have all been through hell and some of us are on the other side but we all can help.
Lastly I'd ring Georgie and try and see her. She's a lovely person and has a great track record and will give you the chance to treat this condition properly, something that the other professionals have so far failed to do.
Panda
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A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2010 : 06:02:56
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Basil,
Where do you live? Are you in the US? Just curious because there are a few good TMS therapists. I found one in my area (Boston) and I like her. I think she's helping me a lot so far in two visits I've had. Hang in there. I had a relapse this Christmas after 4 years of being successfully pain free in my back. It really took me by surprise and all the fear and anxiety over the PAIN came back. A TMS therpaist would be the way to go if you can find one. |
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Erata
63 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2010 : 07:26:52
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quote:
Originally posted by basilI have lost my flat, my partner and on the verge of losing my job. Been off sick since November since coming off Anti depressants. Partner is pregnant and says I am useless to her like this, which I am.
Jeez, Basil, that's a lot of stress and blame! Especially becoming a father and how the prospect must also be bringing up your abuse with your step-father.
I can really relate to your desperation and wish I had some magic that helped me recover to pass on to you, but I'm still in a lot of pain and under heaps of stress.
I agree with what everyone's written about fear, and fear feeds on itself. I'm certain overcoming it is a first big step. As Campbell and Sarita suggest, Claire Weeke's book is an important read to understand this and she also has an audio cd available (It's an old recording from the 60's and I love her voice--she sounds like an Australian Mrs. Doubtfire).
Please be easy on yourself, and remember that as an artist, you're probably more sensitive to 'performing' under pressure.
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2010 : 09:16:47
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I will mostly be repeating what everyone else has said, but I wanted to at least jump in and say, hang in there! You are under a mountain of stress right now, trying to sort out a complicated situation. Try to be patient with yourself.
Many of us have been where you are. I have been there for sure, and while it's a sucky place to be, you must grab onto something that gives you hope--your therapy, your career, your art, a friend, your family, some kind of spirituality. And then you have to begin making a few short term decisions: I will journal every other day, I will take the ad's for another six months (or not), I will take up meditating every day, I will go back to the gym. Re-engage yourself in your life as much as you can. Baby steps are perfect. When we're in this state, that's all we can do. Congratulate yourself on every baby step.
The pain in your body is a manifestation of your anxiety. It IS your anxiety. The best explanation of this is in Claire Weekes, which has already been recommended. If you can begin to see the pain in your arms as a kind of anxiety "attack" then you can move to the next baby step which is viewing that "attack" or anxiety as harmless. If you view it as harmless, then your fear will lessen and the theory is that it will then go away. Gradually for most of us.
Why does it take longer for some than for others? I've thought about this a lot, and I like to suppose that for people like me, who have had this physical tension for years, it's like trying to untie multiple knots in a thin piece of string. In the beginning, for me at least, it was about that painstaking. Now I can "melt" some of my ongoing tension before I go to sleep, or before I get out of bed in the morning with self-talk and affirmations. I literally have to calm myself down sometimes when I first wake up in the morning. But the self-talk/meditation works. More than working on some nebulous "it" or pain or "demon," we moreso must to learn to work gently with ourselves, with who we are, the sensitive people that we are!
Your childhood trauma is also working within, and it conditioned you to be fearful. Check out one of Dr. Dave's recent threads where he suggests that we who endured that kind of childhood pain should reframe our thinking. We should see ourselves as heroes. We lived through something difficult and came out on the other side. Dr. suggests taping an index card to your bathroom mirror with the words, "-----is a hero."
There are millions of suggestions and ideas that will move you along your journey, but for now you have to wrap your head around one thing: The pain, while real, is not harmful. As many here have said, your agenda now is to get rid of the fear. Convince yourself. You are not dying, nothing's permanent, nothing needs to be "fixed." You've been to a million medical doctors; you can believe this. The healing is now inside of you. It's sort of like turning yourself inside out, like pulling your pocket inside out and emptying the contents. Try to do that with your physical tension (since that what the pain truly is). Your arms and body are carrying a half ton of it. What's causing the tension? Use your therapy for this, pour it all out in a journal, it can really help. You will come out of this. Make Sarno work for you, or Schubiner, or Dr. Dave, or your therapy, or the little voice within you that KNOWS you are going to get your life back. I KNOW YOU CAN HEAR IT! You can do it because you have the strength, even though you may think you don't right now. You'll get the control back, you will get back to enjoying life... Glad you reached out here; keep talking to us! Hope you feel better soon. |
Edited by - winnieboo on 01/12/2010 09:37:10 |
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Sorry to post this
