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Pd245
58 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2009 : 11:48:00
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I've had a sinus infection since September and have tried different antibiotics and it's still here. (I couldn't finish all of the antibiotics, however, because of side effects and it seems like I'm sensitive to every medication I've tried.) I've never had anything like this before in my life and wondering if anyone has treated a long term sinus infection as TMS. Not sure it's the symptom substitution because all of my symptoms have piled on, none have gone away. It's just misery upon misery. Plus back pain which is new, and anxiety and now depression because it's been triggering migraines every day for three months. I have read that Flonase, a nasal steroid - which I've been taking for a few months - can cause back pain and migraines, but I'm not sure anymore. When I go off of it my symptoms get way worse but the migraines do seem to change a bit.
This started when my husband and I were looking at a potential new house which I had huge mixed feelings about, and which seemed to trigger asthma attacks every time I went near it. I also kept sensing that the air in and around the house smelled/felt weird. It kind of left a film in my respiratory tract. ALso, my mother in law was due to visit in a few weeks and she's a tremendous cause of stress. But this was back in September/October and all of those stressors are gone - and there are no obvious stressors on the horizon. But the sinus infection is still here and I'm feeling desperate to get rid of it. I know infections shouldn't be messed with so wondering it anyone has been through this. |
Edited by - Pd245 on 12/17/2009 11:50:50 |
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Effie
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2009 : 03:18:52
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| I'm really glad you brought this up, because I hadn't thought about it before and I've been having similar sinus problems since about September, too. I just did a quick Google search and found this testimonial at "yourpainisreal.com" and apparently allergies and sinus problems can be caused by TMS. I think I'm going to try treating it as TMS for a while and see if that helps. But if it keeps worsening, believe me, I'll be going back to the doctor for the antibiotics again ASAP! http://www.yourpainisreal.com/index.php?testimonial-14 |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2009 : 06:39:15
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| Maybe there is some link to TMS with sinus infections, although personally I think that is stretching TMS theory a bit far, but as has been said, you don't want to mess around with them as they can get real serious. Just keep seeing your doc, keep trying different antibiotics until you can tolerate one, go to an ENT if you are not already (if you don't see progress), and realize that eventually you will be rid of this infection. Sometimes it takes months - trying several different antibiotics. If you end up with chronic sinus infections, I hate to say it, but surgery often helps - it really helped me....Read Sinus Survival....I have had MANY, MANY sinus infections, but I only have about one a year after surgery and with daily irrigation, so, at least in this case, I know what I am talking about. |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2009 : 10:20:41
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| You are not alone, pd245. I get recurrent sinus infections (and had sinus surgery 15 years ago as an adult). Stress can strain your immune system and increase susceptibility to illness. I think working with the TMS theory can be helpful "preventative medicine" for sinus sufferers, but once you're in the throes of an infection, you absolutely have to treat it. I've found that sometimes the antibiotics don't work, or they do while you're on them and then it comes back. I've worked with my ENT through some infections that didn't respond to antibiotics. In that case, I take zinc (50mg caplet once a day--not the lozenges), vitamin D, Calicium and a multi, drink lots of water and he recommended a neti-pot (which I don't use b/c of a deviated septum). Instead I make my showers hot, steamy and long, use a saline spray to keep things moving and gargle with salt water. Also SLEEP as much as you can--NAP even! Give your body more power to fight. I get the migraines with or without the sinus infections, and I have a migraine medicine that I use when "thinking psychological" doesn't work! Hope you feel better soon! |
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Pd245
58 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2009 : 12:14:30
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Thanks for the support and ideas. I will try a new antibiotic on Monday and see if it helps. I've been trying to have a "so what" attitude towards the infection and seems to help a bit - at least with the anxiety.
Interesting that I have a new symptom of pelvic pain - feels like I have a urinary tract infection but the tests are negative. I did have a urinary tract infection after taking one of the antibiotics last month (I know, they're supposed to KILL infections, but it gave me one) and I had constant cramping in the lower pelvic region and burning. I had the thing treated and it went away. But ever since I decided to go back on the antibiotics, this constant cramping and burning is back. I get so tired of all of the symptoms I already have (migraines, neck pain/spasms, IBS, GERD, sinus pain, anxiety, now this!) It's like my body is breaking down, but I've always been a super healthy person.
I wish all of the journaling and work I've been doing these last few years would help with at least one thing! I'll keep at it and hope something helps. |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2009 : 13:50:04
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| One more thought: A neurologist recently told me that the "sinus pain" I described was really a migraine (pain was in my face and above my right eye), and he suggested that's why the antibiotics don't always knock it out. He recommended trying migraine meds/remedies for a few days before jumping on the sinus bandwagon. Just a thought. Hope you feel better soon. |
Edited by - winnieboo on 12/20/2009 13:50:55 |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 18:25:59
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| I had a cold a month or so ago, and lingering sinus trouble. I had been using nasal irrigation, and recently tried it with a drop of grapefruit seed extract in it. It was a little irritating, but it cleared up quite quicly. |
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Pd245
58 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 18:40:09
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Thank you for your replies. Definitely helpful and good to know others have gotten rid of a sinus infection.
Sometimes it feels like my body is trying to kill me (kiddng, sort of). Or just doesn't want me to be well. I have been on migraine medication almost every day bc of the sinus headaches and so I know the post nasal drip and headache are from the sinus issues. (I dont get bad rebound HAs from this med). I tried nasal irrigation for a month - which felt great - but which caused worse inflammation and pain the next morning. No one has heard of that! I know they're correlated bc I stopped and the HA stopped for a few days. And Ive tried the antibiotics. I'm allergic to one class, another class didn't clear the infection up, two classes caused severe side effects which prohibits me from using them, and the one I tried today gave me an asthma attack. The Flonase gave me back pain, aching joints and screwed up my hormones so much my cycle is
really messed up. The antihistamines give me a migraine. I've also tried steaming and I can't do grapefruit seed extract and other citrus based things bc the citrus triggers
migraine. I feel like part of this is my mind wanting me to be sick for some twisted
reason, another part makes me feel like I'm just a freakin sensitive person and that
makes me angry. I've actually had this thing off and on since June and I'm taking
anxiety medication to help with the severe anxiety that's come on bc of the feelings of hopelessness and frustration. And even that medication gives me crazy withdrawal symptms the next day.
This post sounds so whiny. I just wanted to vent. It sometimes seems like there's this little demon in my subconscious with a voodoo doll just poking away. "oh, so you're feeling some hope are you??? Take this!!! Oh so you released some feeeeelings by crying them out did you? Well here's a throbbing migraine to pay you for your trouble."
Sometimes I wish I had back pain. Headaches seem so convoluted and multi-faceted and confusing. When I think I've conquered one tiny aspect of one, another one crops up. Annoying. |
Edited by - Pd245 on 12/28/2009 19:40:25 |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 20:30:08
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I am so sorry you're going through this, pd. It sucks. I've been there. Just don't lose hope because you WILL get better. I know exactly what you mean about the demon with the voodoo doll. Like there are two people internally that are fighting, one logical and the other just plain pissed! That's the struggle!
The headaches indeed are the worst, because you absolutely cannot think. They completely disable you. If you can, try to sleep as much as you can; nap throughout the day, try to regain your strength. My summer was horrendous because of sinus issues and migraines and when I got to the end of four antibiotic courses, my GP just told me to take zinc and sleep a lot. I followed her advice (because there wasn't much more I could do) and within 10 days, I finally began to feel better. The only other thing I would suggest is to employ any other TMS strategy that's helped you in the past, like journaling, meditating, going to therapy, whatever. You know you are under a lot of stress, so any measures you can take to reduce it are needed now, as much as the meds. At least the holidays are over and you can hopefully resume some kind of more normal routine. |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 08:23:42
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I think it is likely that "chronic sinusitis" can be yet another manifestation of TMS; I think one key way to identify TMS symptoms is by the company they keep--if someone also has back pain, migraines, pelvic pain, depression, anxiety, etc, etc, it is very possible that other symptoms may be as well.
As someone else said, "sinus headaches" are actually migraines in most cases, which could be another reason why treatments are not working. Seems like you yourself have sort of figured this out, so run with it.
Of course, you should consult with your doctor before making any medical decisions. |
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molomaf
119 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 15:20:43
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I do not know if it your sinus issues are TMS but one thing I have found helpful is colloidal silver. It comes in a nasal spray form and my doctor who is a functional physician says it is fantastic for sinus infections. I have used it to stop colds and on my skin to prevent infections. My husband successfully stopped a cold as well. You don't have to worry about turning blue either! The man that did was drinking the stuff for years!
Colloidal silver will kill bacteria and viruses. Worth a try.
Michele
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Edited by - molomaf on 12/30/2009 15:21:33 |
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kelvin
USA
103 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2009 : 23:48:11
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It could be an oral-sinus fistula (also called "fisture"). You would need to see and Ear, Nose and Throat specialist and probably have to have a CT scan to confirm it. This can be caused by a tooth being pulled or from the root of a tooth being pushed up into the sinus cavity.
A common sign of this in addition to the infections is a very unpleasent odor in your sinuses.
If so, it will take sinus surgery and possibly oral surgery to have this fixed but it is really nice to no longer have sinus infections.
Kelvin G
Additional TMS files and links http://www.etexwebservices.net/kelving (may not work with FireFox browser) |
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2010 : 19:29:23
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| The nasal rinse bottle from Dr. Neal/Neal med, comes with a powder to add to it of bicarbonate of soda and saline that is very finely ground, and dissolves completely. I use it regularly, I just used the grapefruit seed for a stubborn infection. CT scans have many times more radiation than an x ray, if you need a scan try to get an MRI. |
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Pd245
58 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2010 : 12:55:42
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I have had 2 cat scans and all they show are a very deviated septum on the right, some membrane swelling and some mucus on the right. So it seems like a low grade kind of thing. I agree that cat scans emit lots of radiation and should be minimized. I think the deviated septum thing is similar to the spinal abnormalities issue - many people have them but don't necessarily have problems.
I am terrified of taking medications - partly bc my mother was a drug addict and alcoholic and used to give me percocet for headaches when I was nine - so there are some control issues there. But I did try the grapefruit seed extract and just told myself that just because citrus can trigger a migraine in me, that doesn't mean this will. I tried 1-2 drops in 8 oz saline rinse and didn't notice a worse headache than usual, so I'm proud I tried it. I haven't noticed a change in my symptoms, so alltherunner, wondering how long of a trial you gave it? I also tried a topical antihistamine and felt dizzy and panicky after I tried it, but decided to sit down and allow whatever was going to happen, to happen. That felt so much better than monitoring every life sign.
That's what I've been doing with my headaches lately. When I get the neck spasms, I just tell myself "I'm OK with you." Or, when I get the headaches I say "I've had you for ten years and I know what you do, so I have no reason to assume every time that you're going to become the worst headache I've ever had. I'm OK with you." This seems so much more freeing than fighting fighting fighting.It may not get rid of the headache but I freak out less. It has, just a few times, made the spasms go away, though.
Fighting includes doing tons of Internet research looking up symptoms, causes, searching for cures and answers. It includes ruminating all day trying to solve the problem, but getting no where except determining that things are going to get much worse and that I have to solve the problem NOW before my sinus infection, for example, spreads to my brain. Or that the headaches will get worse and I'm getting older and will be able to do less and less. It also involves not getting too heavily involved in activites so that my attention is reserved so that I can listen closely in on my body symptoms for any signs of imminent danger. I'm sure some of you can relate. It's a full time job. One of my doctors told me to get another job :).
I'm working on the TMS stuff, though, but mostly trying to force myself to do other things instead of doing the usual researching and reading and thinking and asking. It's hard to do things when you don't enjoy anything anymore because your body has punished you for so many years when you do anything at all. It's like being a doggy in a box that gets buzzed whatever he does.
I have done the journaling and find it helpful but I end up getting depressed and in a dark place because my childhood was dark so not sure that's a great thing to do. What feels better, but might not be better, is the thought challenging and thought stopping. Whenever I have a health related thought I say to myself "This is a fear thought coming from the amygdala" which helps to depersonalize it. It takes constant work, though. I have to catch it all day. Also, when I journal, sometimes I start ruminating about how unfair it was and that can go on and on and the anger can go on and on and it somehow doesn't seem helpful. I feel the anger but it goes on and on and manifests itself in incredible pessimism. I get very negative and stressed. So I get confused about "thinking psychologically" vs. "feeling psychologically," and how far to take it. Writing down my stressors hasn't resulted in a decrease of pain, and writing the essays is good, but I end up feeling worse rather than better. And I wonder if that's to be expected.
Anyway, I will try the colloidal silver even though it seems really scary and am even thinking of trying the very low level of hydrogen peroxide in my sinus rinse. But in general, all I feel I can do is accept the sinus infection and the sinus headaches I get the day after I do a sinus rinse (not the day of) and just live with it instead of panicking over it. And accepting I have to take the pain medication and try to relax and hope it goes away. And take zinc and rest (thanks winnieboo).
By the way, the sinus infection and worsening of symptoms does seem to correspond with turning 40. Yep. |
Edited by - Pd245 on 01/04/2010 12:56:13 |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2010 : 08:14:58
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Hi Pd,
I relate to everything you're saying...the sinuses, the headaches and the reaction to taking drugs (my alcoholic mother had me on penicillin for about 10 years b/c I had a lot of sore throats...she feared I'd get rheumatic fever). I also have a love/hate relationship w/journaling b/c it opens the floodgates on my anger from childhood. I journaled last week for two or three days and felt better when I was doing it, but then was sick with vague symptoms and a killer migraine all weekend. I actually re-read some of my pages thinking, geez, I'm 50, I'm STILL writing about this? I think Louise Hay (You Can Heal Your Life)links migraines to guilt and I was supposing that I feel guilty pouring out my anger even on a page.
I also have a deviated septum and have found the sinus rinsing completely uncomfortable, so I just don't do it. Instead, I buy the saline spray and try to irrigate as best I can, one sinus at a time. Also, I recently visited a neurologist who informed me that I didn't need to have sinus surgery (15 years ago), b/c he said all of my symptoms were definitely migraine, including the swelling and congestion. Interesting...still thinking about that one, but I do find that indeed, now that I'm watching the symptoms a bit more these days, that I'm often congested during a migraine (and in fact my whole "head" feels congested, not just my nose) and when I stick to my migraine meds, I recover.
Hope you feel better soon.
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altherunner
Canada
511 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 18:35:42
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| I started using the nasal rinse last spring, during allergy season, and used it for about 3-4 months. It helped a lot with allergies, and it kept my sinus clear at night. It took a week or so to make a difference for me. |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 13:38:00
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Quick temporary relief.
This may sound silly but I found a quick way to get some comfort when I was baking something in the oven. It seems like my sinuses like dry air for a little while.
Once the food was cooked I turned the gas off and opened the door to check things out a minute later . It smelled so good I wanted to inhale more of the smell coming out and I got my head a little closer to the oven door opening: i instantly noticed it felt good to be in the stream of hot air coming out of there and breathe in. (Of course no one wants to breathe burned gas fumes so the gas needs to be turned off a few minutes before inhaling the hot air). I stood there in the same spot for couple of minutes and discovered it reduced the post nasal drip quite a bit to the point I had a much better night than usual.
Of course thrilled by what i found I renewed the experiment later and it worked again.
Consequently this also revealed that dampness and cold made the symptoms worse when I was exposed to it again which i had not paid attention to before . Of course feeling better I was also able to enjoy the food more. Even with TMS every little bit helps.
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Effie
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 05:18:02
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Wow, this is a great thread with a lot of great ideas. For some reason this year just seems the worst ever for sinus problems. Last week my sinuses got so bad that I finally called my ENT to make an appointment, but I remembered that I had only gotten a few hours sleep the night before, so I made sure to get a whole eight hours, and I used my neti pot before going to bed, and the next morning I felt so much better I was able to cancel the appointment. I think Winnieboo is right about getting enough sleep.
For the neti rinse I use just about 1/8 tsp of hydrogen peroxide and also a couple of drops of betadine along with the saline solution and that really seems to help a LOT, as long as I keep using it regularly. I'm going to check out that colloidal silver -- I hadn't heard about that before. I tried the grapefruit seed extract in my neti pot and I had trouble getting the dosage right and kept getting a burning sensation when I used it.
Also -- I always keep XLEAR on hand -- that stuff is great! Whenever my sinuses start clogging up I use that and it gives me instant relief. It also has grapefruit seed extract and xylitol, which are supposed to kill viruses and bacteria. The best price I've found for it is at Vitacost.com and I think it's helped me avoid several infections. If you do a search for XLEAR on the Internet you'll see a LOT of great reviews for it.
I did have a doctor tell me once that nighttime GERD (reflux) can cause sinus problems and he recommended taking a Prilosec before bedtime -- and that seems to help, too. I mentioned it to my ENT and my gastroenterologist and neither of them had heard of it, but I've noticed that reflux seems to irritate not only my throat but might creep up into my sinuses as well.
One day at work my sinuses were driving me crazy, so I went to the pharmacy and picked up some saline nasal gel -- I used it and had almost instant relief with absolutely no side effects or burning. And a coworker last week thought she was getting a sinus infection, I told her about the saline spray and she tried it and said it was amazing how much better she felt after using it. We were thinking that maybe the air at work is really dry or something.
However, I would think if you have a deviated septum, everything changes and you would need to work with a physician more closely for your sinus problems. My ENT did a CT scan and it was normal. And not to scare you, but I just learned this week that my boss at work has a chronic MRSA infection lodged way up in his sinuses -- has had it for almost 15 years, he got it when he had his tonsils removed in an area hospital that has since become well known for spreading MRSA to it's patients, it is lodged up there and doesn't bother him. I think I might tell him about these home remedies, since his doctors have apparently given up on him it certainly couldn't hurt! |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 23:37:12
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| I developed chronic sinusitus over a period of years (after curing myself of back pain/sciatica using Sarno--didn't note the connection til much later). It got so bad that i finally had a septoplasty to correct a deviated septum a couple years ago. It made sense (too much so!) that the closed-off nasal passage had to be contributing to the congestion etc. After the surgery, the problems relocated to the other side! It was obvioulsy TMS, and i have since managed to get the bulk of the symptoms under control. In my case, i think it is TMS acting on the turbinates--any blood related anatomy seems to be prime target for TMS. Good Luck! |
Edited by - stanfr on 01/08/2010 23:38:12 |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2010 : 15:09:10
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Didn't know what turbinates are so I looked it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_concha#Role_of_turbinates_as_an_immunological_defense
Because of my condition and symptoms I tend to agree with you Stanfr that any blood related anatomy seems to be prime target for TMS but so far have not been successful at stopping constant post nasal drip. It doesn't seem to get worse or better but there seems to be more of it at night in spite of the mouth drying up. Every morning there is a small amount of blood in my saliva the ENT specialist cannot determine the origin of even after running an optic fiber camera up and down there. The air passages are free most of the time but there is just a lot of liquid post nasal drip. After I spit out the blood stained saliva couple of times everything is back to normal -except for the post nasal drip- until the next morning.
There were some episodes of heavy anxiety attacks that made it a little worse at some point but once these went away the scenario went back to what it was before.
It seems to me that the blood comes through the lining of the nasopharinx as it feels raw and dry in the morning sometimes. Following the advice of the doctors and ENT I got tested for everything that could be the cause of a weakened immune system and tests came back negative. As TMS possibly generated some acid reflux occasionally the ENT gave me guide lines to deal with it in order to lower possible side effects such as lining bleeding in the sinuses. No difference!
Aside from the light bleeding most of the other symptoms in the area come and go or change location within the area with varied strength and frequency. Having ruled out other serious common possibilities with professional medical help I'm quite certain now that TMS has a lot to do with it.
I'm tempted to say this because of the known effects of the panic and anxiety attacks in the area of the neck and throat.I wish I knew more about the nervous/vascular system to be more precise with this one b/c I noticed that the blood supply to the neck area increases quite a bit when the condition worsen.
Has anyone had any similar or close experience to the content of this post especially with the bleeding part?
Thanks |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2010 : 19:34:38
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A hair dryer on low will work as well as your oven to dry up secretions , a moisturising saline spray is soothing , as far as the cause of a long standing infection I can tell you that in my case as long as I stay away from dairy products I do not get the chronic sinus problems I used to get . One dish of ice cream will get the inflammation going
You may also want to google trigger point therapy , the neck, shoulders and sinuses are all connected , if your neck or scapular area are rigid from muscle tension it may affect the muscles in your jaw and face .
Just my two cents in the hope that it may help , I know how delibitating chronic sinusitis can be . |
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Neverending sinus infection - TMS?
