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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2009 : 09:44:06
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I think I mentioned Nate Quarry here before, how he had a fusion and was able to keep competing. Pain free with albiet a few spasms here and there.
This left me jealous and confused as I thought lower back fusions were a one-way ticket to permanent disability. Perhaps it's not tms I thought? And began to doubt all my work.
Then I did a search for the "rage" so to speak and found that he was mentally tortured by a Jehova Witness upbringing and had to completely abandon his parents to escape and have a normal life. Perhaps this is the orgins of his tms.If it is.
Anyhoo, well Ufc fighter Tito Ortiz apparently suffered back problems for a few years and conversed with Nate Quarry and he too had the fusion, a double nonetheless and after a painful recovery is back to high caliber fighting and is back pain free. Hmmmm. Again, more confusion and jealousy on my part.
Then he interviewed on the Jim Rome show about his upcoming fight, and talked about his childhood abandonment with his father and how hard he had to work to get out of poverty, and how bad he wants to be a role model...etc. And lots about the back surgery and how we's pain free.
So I watched the fight last night on tape since it was a week ago, and he lost in a split decision. Announcer Joe Rogan asked him about a hidden injury in training camp for this fight right there in the ring in front of the crowd and Tito points to his neck to say he injured c7-c8 (or something like that) and the crowd booed (they hate excuses) and how he had to train around that.
Hmmmmmm....symptom imparative? Or real injury? |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 09:53:45
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Forgot to mention Tito's back problems started a few years back when he fought and lost to Randy Coture.
The tms connection is that I believe Tito was undefeated and light heavyweight champion at that point.
Perhaps the undefeated hot streak and championship filled the void of love in his youth until he lost it all in one fight. And then Tms struck when he felt unworthy without being champion anymore and this started the conflict with him vs his ego internally.
On the radio show he had a desperation to be champ again, and even bought the house and gym of former boxing champ Oscar Delahoya and talked how he sleeps in the same room as he did, and the same bed, and how he wonders if they had the same thoughts and so on. |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 09:59:10
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| Maybe he just hurt his neck. But man, there's a lot to look at isn't there? |
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 13:54:32
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Yeah it a complete psych story at that. In many ways if you believe you are better, you are. Some people have fusions and believe that they will be made better. And they are. |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 16:43:38
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quote:
Originally posted by HellNY
Yeah it a complete psych story at that. In many ways if you believe you are better, you are. Some people have fusions and believe that they will be made better. And they are.
right, but how do you explain symptom substitution? (or imparative as Sarno says) Say one loses their fear over the pain due to a good doctor comment on their condition or they read something that caused them not to fear what they have.......then, as in Tito's case for example, he now is consumed with his neck. In the ring in front of 15,000 fans he's citing the c7's c8's (I mean who does this?)which means it appears he's heading for fusion land again.
Is this a case of some minor pain, and he focused on it and it got worse? or was it preceded by "distraction theory" that the mind looked for another convincing area to distract him with and obviously succeeded.
Hell, please go heavy, I love your takes. |
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HellNY
130 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 21:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by skizzik
quote:
Originally posted by HellNY
Yeah it a complete psych story at that. In many ways if you believe you are better, you are. Some people have fusions and believe that they will be made better. And they are.
right, but how do you explain symptom substitution? (or imparative as Sarno says) Say one loses their fear over the pain due to a good doctor comment on their condition or they read something that caused them not to fear what they have.......then, as in Tito's case for example, he now is consumed with his neck. In the ring in front of 15,000 fans he's citing the c7's c8's (I mean who does this?)which means it appears he's heading for fusion land again.
Is this a case of some minor pain, and he focused on it and it got worse? or was it preceded by "distraction theory" that the mind looked for another convincing area to distract him with and obviously succeeded.
Hell, please go heavy, I love your takes.
I actually am not a big convert to "distraction theory." Especially as a professional psychologist (academic/university) I see a great deal of weaknesses in many of Freud's theories. Frankly most modern psychologists do was well. I think that there are, however, "pain prone personalities" who have what I see as an almost obsessive form of internally directed attention. First its the back. Then the back is "fixed." Then eventually some other pain gets started. Why? In my view - first, they have tension-prone personalities relating to the ego....and the drive for being better and perfect. This is constantly generating muscular tension and pain in the body. It doesnt take much of a blow or a sudden move to send a muscle that is incredibly tense into a full blown spasm. I think Monte Huftle (or however his name is spelled) has it right in this regard.
Second, because TMS'ers are worry prone anyway, all it takes is the beginning of these symptoms and then the fear/anxiety obsession start and the pain is maintained.
The key to stopping this all is to stop taking the pain seriously, realize thoe whole thing is not dueto "injury" but rather your obsessive and pain prone psychology , and accept that it might or might not hang out for a while but that it will eventually go away. Mine always does. It just doesnt really bother me anymore and it is also 80-90% less than it ever was. I refuse to even care baout the 10% that remains. Cause I just dont care about something so small and I live a normal life.
Distraction theory was always a roadblock to my acceptance of TMS because it just feels like so much bunk. Its a highly complicated and convoluted theory that requires a rather complex, even scheming, subconcious. There are other explanations that require fewer assumptions and less far flung subconcious shenanigans. Again, I agree with Monte Huftle in this regard although we seem to arrive at this independently.
I alwyas need to make teh disclaimer that ultimately, it doesnt matter if teh distraction tehory is right or not. The treatment is still basically the same. Stop worrying. The pain isnt signaling andything important. Its psychogenic.
Let the air out of the baloon
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Edited by - HellNY on 12/03/2009 21:17:08 |
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another ufc fighter observation from skiz
