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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 06/20/2004 : 10:37:11
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For sometime I have been curious if a cotisone injection would erase the pain in my right hip. I know this is thinking physicaly. I fully consciously believe in TMS and experience twinges almost daily that I can "will" to disappear in moments. My hip pain persists, I think, because it has become such a longterm habit. One thought I have about the source of the pain is that the muscles around the hip are "bone bound" trying to protect a joint that does't need it anymore, if it ever did.
It's difficult for me to consciously "put my right foot down" on the tennis court and force the tensed up muscles to release because of all the other things I have to think about during competion.
I was wondering if getting a cortizone shot in the hip could shortcut the process and chemically relax the muscles and give them a few weeks to "forget" the bad habit? I've heard that you shouldn't have more than two cortzone shots, per joint, per lifetime. Also, that the injection can be painful or not painful. Anyone have any experience with it and opinions? |
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austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2004 : 11:51:37
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Cortisone doesn't relax the muscles, it reduces inflammation. If we assume that there is inflammation, and you continue to do the activity that promotes it, the cortisone will only have a temporary effect, if that. And to put that stuff into your hip joint will require a VERY long needle.
I had that done, a long time ago, into a much more accessible shoulder joint. Extremely painful and if there was any good effect from doing it, it was too subtle for me to notice. Only time off did the trick.
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2004 : 08:52:10
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quote:
For sometime I have been curious if a cotisone injection would erase the pain in my right hip
Tom,
As Gary said cortisone would only reduce only reduce the swelling in the area. This is a great source of temporary pain reduction, but in most cases in conjunction with the injection time off would allow the injury to heal.
This has a quick fix short-lived effect on most chronic pain and probably would not be an answer for TMS muscle pain. However there have been people who have had the effect of the injections lasting up to six months. But these people were injured had a series of injections followed up by six months of REST including about 8 –10 weeks of rehabilitation
In my case I had three steroid epidoral injections in the lower back two weeks apart. The first one was an instant miracle after 15-20 hours I was pain free after being in constant 24/7 pain for 3 years. But the injection only lasted 11 days. I do not believe it was a placebo because it did reduce a major amount of swelling allowing me to move again. But as I learned it wasn’t the SOURCE of my REAL pain. The second lasted 7 days and the third had NO effect. Shortly after this I was introduced to doctor Sarno’s work. It took 9 months to bring me to the point I am at today. You have heard most of my story thus so far.
One thing to keep in mind is what happens when you receive the injection. Steroid makes he body naturally produce adrenaline, which in theory is accelerating the body to HEAL ITSELF. Drugs can either of block the message of pain or enhance the body to produce its own healing agent. But rest is a key healing element it must be in conjunction with the remedy. Take for instance Bowtox in MS patients, my friend just went with it for their 4-year-old and temporary relaxed the muscles to allow her to be able to do a series of therapies. She now is able to stand for the first time. Possibly the effect of the injection along with the proper therapy will allow her to walk in due time. But I believe this is only done once when they are young.
Either way Tom, ya gota give it a time to rest and heal.
Hope this helps good luck
Tom if I may be frank with you, this TMS stuff can force us to a point of excepting some things in our lives.
But it also gives us an opportunity to give way and let go of some of the strongholds that keep us in fear, anger and situations that we can be obsessed with and need to be in control of.
Some thing to think about?
Always Hope For Recovery
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Edited by - kenny V on 06/21/2004 11:17:08 |
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April
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2004 : 11:49:09
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
I've heard that you shouldn't have more than two cortzone shots, per joint, per lifetime. Also, that the injection can be painful or not painful. Anyone have any experience with it and opinions?
Hi tt
I know of some people that have gotten pain relief from cortisone injections, but I’m not one of them. My experience was during a time of elbow pain that did not respond to PT. My Dr. wasn’t encouraging cortisone, but I was pushing for other options, so I had the Dr. agree to do the injection. The injection itself was very painful and afterwards my arm just hung down at my side. It hurt to even move it. I got no pain relief at all but instead temporarily got more pain. 
I heard later that some people with small joints (me) are less likely to benefit. But more importantly what I wasn’t told was that the cortisone causes permanent weakening to the soft tissue you’re trying to help. That may be why you heard not to have more than 2 in one place. If that’s true you may do yourself more harm over the long run. I’ll never do it again, but I also know of TMS now and its power. If you are still considering the shot, I'd further research the pros and cons.
Didn’t you say that your last Dr. visit showed what you believed to be some physical (non-TMS) contribution toward pain? A TMS Dr’s DX I think? So you may have the tough place of having to balance both TMS and non TMS pain?
Regardless, I was very happy for you when you shared how you played very well in the recent competition even though your movement isn’t 100%. Congrats for finding time in the zone!! 
April
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Irish Jimmy
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2004 : 16:28:28
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| Tom, I had a Cortisone shot in my foot for plantar fasciitis(foot pain) a few years ago, it did nothing. It wasn't too painful in that area, but everybody told me it would be. This is before I discovered TMS and Sarno's techniques. My shoulders and trap pain led me to reading Mindbody Rx, the pain left my shoulders and traps in 6 weeks moving back to my feet, which had not hurt in months, or almost a year. TMS is tricky. I'd say rest it, consider it TMS, and go back to playing. When it comes down to it, YOU know best, Good Luck! |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 05:27:42
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'I fully consciously believe in TMS and experience twinges almost daily that I can "will" to disappear in moments. My hip pain persists, I think, because it has become such a longterm habit'.
Tennis Tom,
The fact that your hip pain is so persistant makes me wonder if the problem is indeed a physical one and not TMS. Have you had it diagnosed by a tms doctor yet? There are many many people out there who have hip arthritis and need surgery and in fact hip surgery does have a very high success rate. Another thing is that most people who have hip replacements get tremendous relief from their pain unlike back surgery where results are pretty vague and not consistent. I know many people who have had dramatic relief from pain after hip replacement surgery.
There may be a small tms factor involved but there could also be a real physical problem which should not be ignored. Not everything is tms and it is rather dangerous to label everything as such. In fact Sarno does not go into much detail when discussing hip arthritis in his books. I don't know whether it means he is not sure himself or what. However, if your tms doctor confirms it is indeed tms then you could go down the tms route confidently.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 06/22/2004 08:23:01 |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 08:42:01
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Tom,
My grandmother is still alive 84-86? Years old. She has been the caretaker and backbone to our entire family coming to America. In fact she worked three jobs bringing her mother and father from Italy only to fight to go back once again during the depression. She has cared for most of her brothers and sisters her entire life. She was always working and active for 75 years. She was always healthy, walking 6 miles a day for many years, until about 8 years ago she decided to have knee surgery, and she went all down hill from there.
My friend
Take a rest for a while do what is necessary for isolating the underlying core of your TMS pain and then when you have progress, return slowly to the things you love the most in life.
Always Hope For Recovery
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 09:14:00
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| Kenny V's comment of cortisone being a quick fix, short term is very accurate. I also had an injection about 5 years ago for a heel spur. The injection did'nt hurt and the pain was instantly gone for about 10 days. I did't go again. I am in the horse business and have alot of experience with cortisone injections in horses. It has a widespread use and causes a very sound quick fix for a short time. The next injection has less effect and lasts a shorter time etc. The most negative aspect of this is that when given in a stifle joint where there is cartilege, the cortisone eats it away. We have several great horses that are total criples because of these injections. I don't know how much of a hip joint is cartilege, or if it would have the same effect on a human. Horse trainers and ignorant vets looking for a quick fix have ruined alot of horses. It might be worth checking into this aspect before you continue. Also, a friend of mine with a torn miniscus in his knee had an injection that created a terrible amount of pain. His new surgeon told him they quit treating knees with that years ago. Be careful and good luck. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 09:27:57
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Dear Mala,
Thanks for your thoughtful post. Yes I have been DX'ed by a "TMS", Sarno trained, ddctor. My latest visit to him was late May. He said my hip was arthritis. If you care to, you can look up my posts, in the archives for the last third of May and get the details. I believe you were absent froom the board at that time. I had a TMS eppiphany which has reinforced my belief in TMS.
I agree that Sarno does not write much on hips in MBP, but as was pointed out by, I believe Dave or Gary, he does say that hips can also be TMS. I had read those paragraphs several times oveer the years and even bookmarked them, but it didn't sink in, until now.
I know many people who have had hip replacements. None of them move better on the tennis court than before. Usually they have the other hip done within a year. Sarno has said that surgery is the best placebo, it's good for about two years. I'm sure that pain is lessened-morphine and percodan will do that and the placebo effect of the surgery. I am not concerned with the pain. I have gone through the excruciating painful part of my TMS experience years ago(at one point I rigged up a pully system above my bed so that I could stretch my leg out during the night). I am now only concerned with being a step slow because the leg won't function like it used to. I believe the muscles lock-up around the joint in an unnecessary attempt to protect it and prevent me from fulfiiling my dreams.
My bottom line on hip relacement is I can walk just fine and it improves with walking. Functionally I can perform all day to day activities, I'm just a step slow for competition which is the whole ball game. I think I can still fix my hip through TMS thinkinng, some weight loss and improved footwork technique and rest.
I think someday medical history will view all these joint replacement surgeries as barbarism. I just can't imagine how a piece of titanium and ceramic can perform the fine neuro-muscular movements performed by original manufacter's equipment. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 09:59:43
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Your ganna think I’m nuts for making this comparison, but my brother bought a race horse (trotter -fixed all fixed), about 10 years ago. He was a feisty fellow a stang no less (still got his stuff). He was a competitor loved to win; boy they are sure “born to run”
He was a 10 claimer, but his mother and father had an excellent bloodline they where 50 claimers. He got hurt by a nasty collision with 5 horses took a fall and broke his leg You all know a horse with a broken leg ain’t worth squat all they are good for is dog food and glue.
The owner didn’t want the expense to nurse this horse back to health. So my brother being the gambler he was learned another thing in life. He made friends with a trainer and bought this horse.
He took him to doc put some pins in his leg and all the other stuff, but he RESTED him from racing for over 9 months. Slowly training him, swimming him, walking and then trotting him up to speed. Then eventually he raced again. He broke his old records. He went on to win many times, moving up in class and was considered a miraculous comeback.
It eventually got all tied up in all that gambling stuff, between the riders, trainers and the owners. They killed the horse racing him, taking him four wide holding him back from the win to collect on a trifecta.
I am so glad I am not a gambler but ill bet you one thing this horse came back because he was properly rested and my brother personally nursed this horse back to health.
Always Hope For Recovery
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 10:05:45
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| Was the horse's name Seabiscuit |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 10:58:24
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No! "Precarious Mission "
My brother wanted me to own this horse, ohh no!  BC he had a record, but i knew not to get involved in another one of his schemes.  (wink)
Only to be responsible for the taxes from his winnings. 
So he took my grandpa for the ride.  (he was a bad boy)
Always Hope For Recovery
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 14:51:40
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| To Tennis Tom- Dr. Sopher, A Vermont-based doctor who trained under Sarno, and is more oriented towards sports (an avid tennis player and runner himself), cites a case where one of his patients came to him with an MRI of his painful right hip that other doctors had dignosed as arthritis, etc. Dr. Sopher asked him to get an MRI of his "good" hip. When this was done, they looked at it, and it looked the same as the painful hip's MRI. But it did not hurt. Sopher used that fact to convince his patient that it was TMS, and the patient got better. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 15:26:39
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Thanks Texasrunner for that info. On the x-rays and MRI's of my hip it's hard for me to see much difference between the right and left. The docs point out differences that I would not have discerned with my eye. If I get to the East Coast I wiil look up Dr. Sopher.
Thanks,
tt |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2004 : 10:24:51
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Just a quick THANK YOU for all your posts regarding cortsone. Seems like there's a lot of variation in results and pain due to the injection. That really long needle is scarey. I'm in no hurry to get one. My footwork functioning is improving day to day to the point that I'm starting to think about what the TMS gremlin has in store for me next. It gave me a neck/shoulder last month for a week that's now returned to dormancy. I have a mild ear ache due to, swimming and maybe a build up of sunblock. I'll keep that one for as long as I can, I like Q-tips. If a cortisone shot falls in my path I might try it just for grins to see if it relaxes the bound up muscles long enough to forget and break the habit.
The real work of TMS is the knowledge therapy and to grow so that we become in charge of it eventually rather than the other way around. Make it do our bidding, allowing us to live life fully, tip-toeing on the edge without falling over it. |
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Monte
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 16:30:13
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you could always just cut it off and then you wouldn';t have to think about it
anymore. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2004 : 17:00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Monte
you could always just cut it off and then you wouldn';t have to think about it
anymore.
Monte, that's an idea but how about phantom limb pain? |
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2004 : 10:04:03
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| I had a shoulder problem and the Doctor showed the impingement on x-ray to me as it was very obvious to see. Everytime I raise my arm the two pieces of bone hit together.I was told it was from excessive use (athletes arthritis)He put in a cortizone injection into the joint.The injection was very painful,and it brought instant relief,both as a lubricant/anti-inflamitory for several weeks.After some time of the quickly returning pain I had several medical people recommend a certain Doctor that was the greatest shoulder Doctor of all time! (amazingly lives in our area)I was examined by Him and He also gave me the injestion again.This time without any pain at all, (to my amazement).The pain of the shot depends on the skill of the Doctor.The other specialist recommeneded surgury as well as this doctor.The worlds greatest said to me:even though I recommend surgury to stop the pain,We cannot "fine tune" so it may not improve the situation.I asked if there was any harm in using the joint as is? He said it is harmles to continue using it the way it is,but very painful.Where have I heard that before? I also appreciate His honesty,on telling me that.Now, being a big tms'er with experience in treating tms,I applied the system to my shoulder with the understanding that my shoulder had a real problem,but I told my brain it was 10% real,90%tms and continued to do very active things with it,knowing the pain was harmless.I now get very little pain and do just about everything I want.Even though there was a real problem,that responded to the injection,and was seen on x-ray,it is/was T.M.S. and with hard work,was cured! In my belief the x-ray and injection were a blocade to getting to the real source of the problem (tms) even though we had to do it to rule out a more serious problem.Try to take this into consideration with Your hip,as it may distract You from the real source and make you think psysical rather than psysological.(I am sure you all have the resident "worlds greatest surgeon" in your area.) The shot will make it feel better,but it will confuse you also.Hope this along with the other posts helps you. Think tms,read,read,read,get well soon!. Paul. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2004 : 10:57:13
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Dear Pault,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful and thourough reply. That helps alot. It re-confirms for me that I am on the right track. It does appear that the pain of the cortisone shot is commensurate with the skill and experience of the doc. I am doing very well this week dealing with my hip in a more TMS, less physical thinking--it's starting to sink in.
Thanks again I hope your story inspires others that TMS works, and to stick with it, it did me.
tt |
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CORTISONE INJECTIONS?
