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JWT
4 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2009 : 12:24:52
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Hello Friends,
I could use some help in dispelling the idea that 'bad' posture can cause or perpetuate pain. Any arguments, info, or tips would be helpful. Specifically if you're someone who as overcome back pain or other pain without changing your posture habits and can share your story that would be great.
I think this is the last bit of reprogramming I have to do. Normally I wouldn't go in for it, but this website makes a pretty good argument about natural posture...how people use to do things: http://www.balancecenter.com/overview.htm
I have read a few of the Sarno books and I know he basically says that the way you stand, sit, move, or lift things doesn't cause pain, but I could use a little more detail to combat the notion. E.g. Well, a different posture might give you a bit more energy or something, but there's no way it could cause any kind of serious back pain. Or maybe you know a bunch of pretty active people who don't have 'good' posture who don't have any pain. That would be helpful.
Thanks so much,
JT |
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SarnoFan
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 15:50:00
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If bad posture caused pain over time, then good posture should resolve pain over time.
Many athletes develop back pain and they had good posture already. Look at martial arts, weight lifters, dancers, etc. Many have back pain...probably because they have a competitive/perfectionist nature?
I found the fashion explanation (1920's flappers) a bit funny. Men didn't wear them; yet they had back pain. The article didn't mention that the type of society we live in also determines our attitudes and thought processes. People in the old days or less developed countries don't have debt or "over achievement" issues. They also don't seek medical help as much as we do and get false diagnoses (nocebos) and drugs.
Then again, what about the symptom imperative? Some back pain goes away and comes back as a TMS equivalent like ulcers, allergies, migraines, etc.
I see posture as hereditary too. Many family members have similar stances or walking styles. Moms and daughters can hunch over the same way as they age. It is not just learned behavior. My son's posture is exactly like his grandfather's whom he rarely sees!
If posture alone is bad, then the body would adapt. We have a friend who lost his toes and one arm. He has to compensate for balance. He says he has no back pain at all. He is also a happy, go lucky guy who doesn't sweat the small stuff.
So it can get tricky when we try to blame mechanics on long term pain.
Yoga has a lot to do with attitude, relaxation, body awareness, breathing, etc. which puts you in a better state of mind and connecting to your body in a positive way. It is not just about body mechanics. |
Edited by - SarnoFan on 09/02/2009 12:17:18 |
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JWT
4 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 17:30:14
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SarnoFan, thanks so much. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. I actually watched their dvd (which is a little more convincing, has more pictures of all sorts of people) and realized that my pelvis was pushing forward and my spine was out of line. But you offer a lot of good counter-arguments. If any of you have more like this on posture/body mechanics, please do share it. Maybe you have found yourself in a similar situation...my mind is constantly searching out excuses and reasons why I'm in pain, dysfunctional, or why my situation is an exception. And if only I would do this thing, then that would fix me (the vast array of choices offered by modern medicine and alternative therapies can make it seem endless). So I find the logic and the arguments to be quite helpful in turning that around and it's great that there's a forum where people can share different perspectives to help each other. Thanks!
JT |
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Webdan65
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 20:03:29
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JT - just my two cents.
Poor posture can cause muscle imbalances and I'm proof of it. But I'm also proof that despite what my doctor, chiropractor and physical therapist says - these same imbalances are NOT the cause of the pain.
Check out the picture of my back. I'm still crooked yet through working the TMS treatment program I got rid of my pain.
You can see the picture here:
http://www.truthaboutbackpain.com/125/12-years-of-back-pain/
I also have a full write up of my story along with videos, other blog posts and even a full report and interview I did with a noted TMS doctor Dr. Howard Shubiner.
Nothing for sale - just information to help people get started on the path of TMS treatment.
You're on the right track, don't jump off the train.
Dan
Dan
Author of TruthAboutBackPain (dot) com |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 23:16:14
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In the ecumenical spirit of both/and, I want to put in my 20 cents here about the value of - not so much POSTURE (which implies something "right" and "static") - but various kinds of body awareness I have done that I feel have increased my energy and well-being. They haven't taken away most of my pain, which is definitely TMS, when it comes, but I feel SO much better as I have unravelled a lot of the postural holding patterns that were essentially a somatization, or physical expression, of my emotional stuff.
For me, it has been a huge, huge difference in how I process feelings and thoughts, not to be holding them in place with a habitual rounding and gripping and various pulled-down spinal habits. When I was younger I did 3 years of Alexander Technique work, which was revelatory. I've enjoyed a few Yoga teachers, especially those who, like Angela Farmer, take things to a fluid, spontaneous level along with good alignment. I've had help from certain body and movement teachers. My Golds' Gym trainer has helped me a lot with strength and more open breathing and getting a more solid core which has helped me with lifting and walking and also feeling stronger and more grounded emotionally. Yes, really!
I don't think we have to pooh-pooh all these very valuable practices in order to be born-again TMSers. I certainly don't have to. I just don't think that my pain syndrome is because of lack of these practices. But doing many of them has enhanced my life and happiness greatly.
xxx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 04:43:36
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JWT,
I recovered from RSI 4 years ago and since then I've very much been rebelling against good posture with no relapse of my RSI. (As I type this I'm sitting with one leg crossed over the other, facing the computer askew.) I'll deliberately slump when sitting.
Some years back I saw a program on Ripleys Believe it or Not about women who deform their bodies by lacing up their waists to have an hour-glass figure. One woman interviewed said she could only eat small quantities of food at a time (she had to eat little and often) because of the resultant deformation of her stomach. Eegh! With my Alexander Technique training I was thinking, my God, what are doing to their bodies - they are going to end up with serious long-term health problems by squashing all their internal organs.
But get this: at the end, the commentator said that scientists had NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND ANY LONG-TERM (physical) HEALTH IMPLICATIONS of carrying out this practice! I was astounded. For me this really emphasised the adaptability of our bodies! (Lets not go into the psychological implications...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hourglass_corset
Having said all that, I agree with Wavy about physical holding patterns and buried emotions being linked – that is something I've witnessed with the Alexander Technique that as people achieve a physical release they can also get an emotional release.
Hilary N |
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fibri
Belgium
56 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 12:49:22
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I did 1-2 years of Alexander Technique work and it made me feel good, and helped release some emotional stuff. But apart from short periods of reduced pain after the sessions, overall it did NOTHING to help my back and arm pain. I now feel sure the improvement was a placebo effect.
I'm not sorry I did the work (helped me adopt better posture which makes you look better!) but I don't think it was worth all the money I spent. Not compared to buying TMS books: low outlay, fantastic results! |
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JWT
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2009 : 13:11:02
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| Thank you all for responding. This is good stuff and a big help to hear from you. It can be tough when something looks good and reasonable (like Alexander, Balance Method, etc.), and you actually get some direct relief upon trying it out, which I did. But the problem for me is that if I start to then do it to fix the pain, then it sends that subliminal message of frailty etc. Plus I have done so many things that the thought of starting another one, even if it did have side benefits, and having it turn out to be a placebo or temporary, is really tough to think about. So you may have saved me some time and heartache. This is the first time I've posted anything, so it's nice to get some good responses. Thank you again and best wishes. JT |
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posture
