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marsha
252 Posts |
 Posted - 05/13/2009 : 18:25:50
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For some there is great benefit in knowing that TMS is responsible for their pain. But, as I continue to suffer with bouts of extreme pain I wonder what good it is doing me.
I have seen Dr. Sarno, kept a journal, gone for psychotherapy and read everything I can get my hands on. In 1999 the first time I saw Dr. Sarno I was pain fee in 7 months.
I continue to firmly believe that my pain is psychosomatic. I talk to myself, meditate and am trying now to keep up my positive attitude.
My growing up years were very troubled. My mother was mentally ill. I was sexually abused. My father was too weak to protect me and I was only as good as the last thing I did. I hated my mother and I believe I felt sorry for my father although I probably was pretty pissed off at him. I no longer speak to my sister; she is exactly like my mother.
To others I appear as the victor. I had a successful career, financial security (even in this economy), two children with who I have a great relationship. I love my husband, we have been married for 42 years, and he has been able to deal with my TMS for all that time.
Before I knew about TMS I would have bouts with almost everything on the TMS list. But I always had times that I felt fine. Now that I know that repressed anger and perfectionism is the cause I am suffering more. Occasionally I have a good day but I have been in pain for about 2 years. Sometimes unbearable pain. Not only is the quality of my life being destroyed I am making my husband miserable. (yes I have considered that guilt can contribute to this pain).
So, what is the benefit of knowing?
Marsha
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 00:02:41
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What is the benefit of knowing?
In my experience, I have been gradually able to use this knowing to free myself. It has not been as quick and easy in the long-term as I had hoped when I had my first Sarno breakthrough. But over time, I have been able to more quickly "wake up" from a kind of vortex that I used to go through - some unfelt emotion would coincide or cause some symptom, then I would direct my frustration towards the symptom, or my victimy feeling towards the symptom, and then I could never get out.
If I may offer an impression, you may be a bit like me in this way. I have been trying to learn to just feel the feeling as a feeling, instead of through the medium of physical pain. It's not the easiest thing, and your history of abuse sounds a lot like mine. But little by little, I breathe into the feeling, and just let myself feel it instead of resisting it. In a way, I can see that my physical pain is my way of resisting the painful emotion by pretending to be feeling it.
I know that it isn't easy to move into the purely emotional experience of our pain. It almost seems to disappear, but that is because it actually does dissolve, when not resisted. Doesn't mean it all goes away forever with one try, but I can feel how I am shoveling and shoveling and the sh*it pile is getting smaller and smaller.
Good luck Marsha!
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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scottjmurray
266 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 01:42:41
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The benefit of knowing is that there is a solution.
~*~
author of tms-recovery . com |
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sarita
130 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 06:26:31
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marsha, dont give up.
all this book cures and cures within a few weeks can be discouraging. you have a huge emotional package, that can not resolve within weeks or months.
some people are helped by some antidepressants for dealing with pain etc. maybe you can try for a while.
i am also far from being pain free yet.
think of the good days. the good days will be more and more.
Churchill said, never, never, never give up.
and do read books like murphy, and maybe the berceli trauma book may be a great idea for you. trauma clearly is there with you.
ever heard of the therapy somatic experiencing? |
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tcherie
72 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 08:20:43
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Based on my understanding, the benefit of knowing is that the pain is not still there because of some type of physical injury.
In some ways that can be a real help to alot of people because it helps them to lose the fear of getting back into their regular physical routine thinking they may hurt themselves further. But imagine what happens when somebody is free of that thought. Imagine all the good feelings that come within them, how they become more positive, and start smiling again. I personally feel that is what causes recovery...the change in attitude and how what you think mentally can affect the body. A person is a little bit everyday letting that mental tension go, that caused their physical tension and pain or oxygen deprivation.
I can be corrected if someone disagrees, but my main issue was neck and upper body pain. I am doing well now, and most of the time I do not even think about it anymore.
But for me I do not think knowing alone was what made me start to get better. Sarno's books said that certain personality traits tend to get these TMS ailments. Doesn't it make sense then that to get better there would have to be some type of shift away from doing and dealing with things in the same way. I am a perfectionist. My perfectionism, usually leads me to work long hours, obsess over mistakes, make sure that everything I do is thought of logically. I am still me, but I relax more, I smile more. I only push myself so much now. I say no. And guess what I feel better. That is what knowing has done for me.
But in knowing and taking care of me, I also eat better and exercise. I do things for my body that makes it happy. I have a cousin who is just a couple years younger than me. We live together and work together. We have the same stressful life, but I started feeling bad. One of the differences in our personality is that she laughs all the time. I must say it is annoying for someone to seem so happy, but it is working. I come from two loving parents. She comes from a divorced household. Both my parents are healthy. Both her parents have serious health issues. She has reasons to be stressed, but her view on life is totally different from mine.
So Marsha, if you haven't done so already...stop focusing on the pain, but this time cater to you. Also, I do believe that if you are holding in anger for what happened growing up and how your sister acts now, you will have to gradually let that go. I had to learn to stop viewing things solely from my perspective if it was causing anger. But I wasn't repressing, I was truly letting go. That's just my opinion. |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 10:03:08
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>Now that I know that repressed anger and perfectionism is the cause I am suffering more.
I think another benefit of knowing is *being able to adjust the *RAGE/SOOTHE RATIO* in our lives ! Dr Sarno talks about this in one of his books especially, and while I am not personally good at tipping the scales towards SOOTHING, I do think it is one of the keys for success! it is not JUST being aware of/dealing with the "anger and perfectionism" but the ratio of anger and perfectionism compared to how much SOOTHING there is in one's life, to offset it.
Increasing the soothing in one's life would tend to *increase* the quality of life, and so I think (have to constantly remind myself!) that this is one of the big benefits of knowing. |
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marsha
252 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 10:22:58
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Ragesootheratio,
That I think it is a big part of it for me..the sooth ratio . How clear. Thanks
For me the problem is how do I find that soothe ratio.
How do I find that within myself.
Sometimes the people in our lives don't get it. They want to fix it not understand it.
So how do I help myself.
Marsha
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Capn Spanky
112 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 11:22:00
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| Marsha, are you not any better (at all) that you were before you found Dr. Sarno and TMS? |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 11:35:42
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Marsha, this has been a challenging aspect for me and I am still learning! One thing I realized is that it really is a very "dynamic" thing, in that what is soothing for me at one time, is not necessarily soothing for me at another time ... so it seems it is a constant readjusting to my needs in the moment. I actually have been compiling a long list over time ... off the top of my head, currently some things I have found soothing lately: going for walks now that it is spring and smelling the sweet lilac in bloom in my neighbourhood, seeing my therapist, taking a "Wired for Joy" course (through the Solution Method.. which has been quite helpful for me over the last 8 months), some VERY nice Qigong DVDs, soothing music, keeping on top of my bookkeeping (well, not exactly "soothing" but at least stress-reducing!), doing a little less, sometimes, (ie trying to keep a reserve), Tylenol with CODEINE! ;o) , eating regularly, making sure I have healthy snacks, (and sometimes not-so-healthy ones! corn chips and potato chips are often very soothing to me!).
The rage/soothe ratio is something I know I need to keep working on ... the RAGE is pretty easy for me to be in touch with; the soothing, much less so!
You also said:
>Sometimes the people in our lives don't get it. They want to fix it not understand it.
I wonder if by "people" you might mean "men" ?! ;o)
Sometimes female friends seem to "understand" more easily, without trying to move immediately into "fixing mode" which seems to be more true for the men in my life. (which of course is not true for the men on THIS board! ) :o)
Maybe others will pop in with some of their thoughts on soothing ?
I'd sure be interested in knowing what is working for others too!
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sarita
130 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 13:57:37
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capn spanky made a good point.
think, are you really not any better?
hope this is not annoying, since you said the pain is unbearable sometimes.
one thing i want to add: sarno talks a lot about the repressed emotions and how the unconscious mind is the heart of the matter.
yet he also says in the divided mind: who we are and what our lives look like are powerful reasons for psychosomatic symptoms.
what does your life look like right now? are you admitting all to yourself?
BEST OF LUCK.
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sarita
130 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 14:03:54
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this is something some guy wrote, i think he is brilliant. its long...i read it and was helped.
it will make you think.
KEEP UP THE OPTIMISM
Your past will always be with you. I myself had a very traumatic childhood. Most all of my therapists I've ever seen agree that I had one of the worst they've heard. But I visited the demons only enough to acknowledge how I really felt about it, and then moved on.
But from what I have seen, reliving negative experiences is not the solution. People who even suffer PTSD, (like I did when I was a child)will nopt ease it by 'talking it out'. The perceptions that the said 'trauma' caused to go off base, are the things that need to be changed.
Trauma changes people by altering their response to the world and their response to their own thoughts. It's my opinion that once you acknowledge the anger you feel about a past traumatic event or 'bad childhood' you NEED TO get busy on changing the cognitive patterns that you have NOW, in the PRESENT.
The 'inner child' stuff is played way too much. The emphasis on this part of the Ego is overblown. To revisit it in journaling over and over and over again , to the point where you relive it everyday...does what?
We all feel the way we do mostly because of the NOW. This is not a mimic of an Eckhart Tolle type mantra, this is just logic. You only have the 'now' to deal with your thoughts and how they effect you.
I could have seen someone I loved killed in front of me as a child. And hell yes that's going to affect me as a child for years to come. But after I revisit that memory in some therapy session, and acknowledge what it did to me, then what?
YOur past needs to be put in it's proper box. If someone did you wrong as a child, you need to eventually accept that bad things happen to children or young adults, and that no fault of it was yours. There eventually needs to be a place where it does not define you.
Yes, you can heal from TMS without journaling about your past. TMS is seeded much more in the 'NOW' than we are taught to believe, IMO.
TMS gains most of it's power from our daily responses to it, than any ruminating of past events could ever do. You could have a great childhood, great past life where nothing bad ever happened, and have full blown TMS....doesn't that make you wonder?
From what I have seen, TMS is a
1) conditioned way of seeing pain, as a response to avoid present or near present perceptions, fears, angers, stresses, and anxieties about life.
2) Given power by making it part of your identity.
3) Can easily go from a 10 in intensity to a 0, with just one 'aha' moment.
4) Thrives on 'what if' thinking. Examples:
a)"What does this mean, this new pain".
b)"Will I be like this forever?"
c)"What if I get a flare up if I am out in public or at work or the movie theater,etc"
d)"What if I don't beat this now, does this mean I really have something structural?"
e) "What if I won't be able to provide for my family"
5)Thrives on the ANXIETY caused by rehashing past regrets, seeing your life in a "I should have been this person" lens, or believing you 'should be' somewhere.
a) I should be pain free by now
b) I should be able to run a mile
c) I should be healed like so and so is.
d) I should be a Millionaire right now if it weren't for TMS getting in the way.(ahhh gave it power?)
e) If it weren't for TMS, I would be able to be such and such and so forth.
6) Loves when you berate yourself.
7) Loves when you attain self hatred or any negative self view.
8) Loves when you fight it and say things like "Get out of my body you %#$^! I will Bleep you you bleepin son of a bleep I'm so sick of you you bleepsucking motherbleeper(you get the picture)
9)TMS ABSOLUTELY LOOOOVES you to distract yourself with the subject of........TMS. It loves to be talked about on forums and boards. It has a life after all.
10) LOOOOOOOVES for you to mentally 'scan' your body to see "where the pain is now, is it moving? Is it, is it, is this good uhhh oh no it's in my foot, ahaaaa now it's in my back,.....ahhh it just moved to my ears...ahhhh.What does this mean? Why me, whyyyy, what's going on panic panic"
All this while you are talking to someone on the phone! :/
11)Loves for you to think you are ACTUALLY sick.
12)HATES when you are present and conscious of what's happening now. It loves when you worry about tomorrow. It cannot allow you to enjoy a moment, or be thankful for even the smallest joy.
13) Thrives off of thinking that "life sucks and this existence sucks"
14)TMS Luuuuhhhuuuhhhhhuuuuvz when you fight it. It wants a boxing match with you. That way, you don't have to face the world "outside". It's like a woodpecker on your shoulder that keeps you safe from feeling anything bad. Problem is, it just replaces all those bad feelings you might have about the world, with pain and bad feelings about being in pain. What a ****ing opportunistic asshole TMS is. But he/she thinks she's doing you a favor.
15)TMS wants you to get mad at it. It likes when you think you have control. But try releasing all control one day. Try actually laughing at it and doing exactly what YOU want to, without regard to it. Watch it go into a panic, it's hilarious.
16)TMS loves when you think you can 'outsmart' it. It loves when people think they can beat it if they just 'dig enough' in their little journals. As if talking about a life event for the millionth time will one day 'jolt' TMS. "You'll show TMS this time kid"(shakes fist in the air). What a joke, definition of insanity.
17) TMS loves when you are predictable and try to counter it with 'methods' and 'approaches'. It hates when you just give up and stop fighting. TMS after all, needs drama and action, lights, camera. Anything to be alive.
In closing. TMS is a ghost that thrives off of having it's own life and keeping you out of the PRESENT. It does NOT want you to FEEL. It wants you to THINK. Stop thinking. 95% of the thoughts that are running through your conscious mind are COMPLETE GARBAGE.
But there is a catch and a surprise too. This will blow your mind, as it has me.
While my TMS is 99% gone, my thinking is still mostly the same in everyday life. I really haven't changed my views of much. I really am not a 'better person".
The key is my view of TMS, that changed dramatically.You don't have to change the way you even view life, that may just be a side effect.
When you change the way you see the pain, what the pain means to your ego, what the pain means to your supposed 'future', what the pain is, what the pain can teach you, you will beat it.
TMS has nowhere to run once you realize it's fake. It's a symptom that thrives in distraction and thrives in the fact that it has GOT YOUR ATTENTION.
Want to see TMS get scared as hell?
Imagine yourself having it for the rest of your life (worst case scenario). Sit there and meditate on it. Imagine your life and all those years passing by with chronic pain.
After that, make a deal with TMS. Say "If this is what you want, so be it". And then go outside and accept the fact that you were promised nothing....and live your life. With the total acceptance that life is what happens and you will do what YOU can, while this event has other plans. Accept that TMS is with you and in you. Thank TMS for showing you that you needed to change. Be aware of every moment you don't feel pain(these moments will turn into days).
Accept and move forward.And you will see how truly small TMS is. You will wake up and understand that the battle is won when you stop fighting.
1)Scaring TMS actually(from my experience) causes it to stop, in a smoother way. Have you ever done journaling to the point that the pain 'moves' around like some of the TMS books say it will? That 'moving' is not the key. The moving just means you hit something and TMS got uncomfortable, so it's finding another place to go.
From my experience, this isn't the end of TMS. When TMS is truly 'scared' it leaves. You can sense it getting bored and you wake up one day and you notice no stiffness, no tightness, no needle sensations, etc.
It's way different than the "oh it's moving now so that means it's going away".
2)I don't think you have to have 'faith' that letting go will cure TMS, in order for it to work. For me it was just an "aha" moment. "Letting go" and accepting actually breaks the TMS cycle. It has no power anymore, and TMS thrives on your constant worry. It always wants to be an issue. If you truly can learn to let go of the "what ifs' that TMS causes to ruminate in your head all day, then TMS loses it's power.
After a while , it's just lets go itself.
If you can't imagine what letting go and accepting feels like, I can't really demonstrate it or describe it.
I think it has to be a personal experience that someone has.
I also think I was motivated to let go because nothing was working. The usual journaling and constant talking about TMS wasn't doing it for me. So I gave up out of total exhaustion. And it was at that point that someone posed the question to me "Who told you that you were promised anything in life?"
The most profound yet simple question I've ever been asked. It hit my EGO, the part of me that saw myself as being something I obviously wasn't, a sufferer of TMS.
You need to accept TMS and that you have it before you can deal with it. If you are constantly fighting TMS on a minute by minute basis, you are already saying to yourself that you would rather be SOMEONE ELSE and SOMEWHERE ELSE, rather than be HERE.
How can you start to tackle life's problems if you are not HERE, and not accepting of what is happening NOW? You might as well be dead. If you are wishing your whole life to be this 'other person' you feel you deserve to be, you might very well suffer with TMS forever.
Many of us gladly accept that we SUFFER from TMS , but we don't really ACCEPT that we HAVE TMS.(read what I said again...repeat)
Many of us gladly accept that we SUFFER from TMS , but we don't really ACCEPT that we HAVE TMS.
Many of us gladly accept that we SUFFER from TMS , but we don't really ACCEPT that we HAVE TMS.
This is a big step.
3) No. LOOKING for the pain free moments can get you into trouble. Making a mental note of the pain free moments reinforces that faith that TMS is a mental state dependent syndrome and not structural. It also reminds the brain that it can attain a normal state of being. A "theres more where this came from" reminder. The brain also knows that once something is achieved on a small scale, it can be achieved as a whole.
The idea is not to become OBSESSED with pain free moments. Just be aware of them and move on. TMS has it's best successes when you acknowledge>>>>>>>>>>>>>appreciate>>>>>>>>>then move on.
Appreciation is different than fixation. If you find yourself fixated with TMS symptoms, you are already losing. What if you put yourself in a state of mind where you woke up everyday saying, " Okay TMS,I KNOW that today you are going to give me pain. There is nothing I can really 'do' to make you go away for now. So whatever new pains you bring me is totally expected. Nothing is really new with you. So do your best, but in the meantime I'm going to go (fill in the blank)"
Do you think with this new outlook that TMS will have more power or less? I'm not saying that TMS won't try real hard to get your attention by kicking and screaming. I'm talking about POWER here.
If TMS knows that it's M.O. is expected and predictable...how would any new symptoms 'scare' you or make you think 'uh oh ' anymore?
4) Thank TMS for making you aware that your way of life, thinking, perceptions, rationale, fears, levels of anxiety....are not in line or consistent with a 'healthy' person.
We have TMS for a reason. I'm not saying we are crazy or outcasts. But we are not, as a whole, 'WELL' people. If we were, we would not be here. Now who is 'well' and balanced? Not many people in Western society. We are sick because we are products of a very repressed, while at the same time , EGOCENTRIC culture.
Take a room full of a group who is spiritually calm and appreciative of life., say 50 people.
Buddhist monks, Hippies, Agrarians, Yoga instructors....whatever example you can think of.
Put them in a room with 50 TMS sufferers from this forum. You think you could spot the difference and be able to tell who's Autonomic Nervous System has the highest probability of malfunctioning?
Uhhhh, yeah. It would be us.
So TMS is the bodies way of showing you.
"Hey, we really can't live like this anymore, because now you're forcing me to starve oxygen and cause pain. If you don't change, I keep doing this. I don't know how else to warn you aside from giving you Cancer or a Heart Attack."
Thank TMS in as much as TMS is giving you the chance to start over life with a new view.
I am very angry of what TMS caused me, and by no means am I thankful for having TMS in that sense. We all know we would rather be symptom free and never have to deal with any of this to begin with.
But that goes back to LIFE NEVER EVER EVER PROMISED YOU ****!!!!
ACCEPTANCE of what is, not what you thought is SUPPOSED to be. Kids die daily from bone cancer and Lukemia.
We have TMS. Nobody promised you anything. This is the hardest lesson of TMS because it shows that life is completely out of your control.
And that is one of the biggest fears of a TMS sufferer.
Is what I'm saying making sense? I hope, because that is the best I can explain it.From my experience, you don't have to 'believe ' in TMS for TMS theories to work. The best process is DEDUCTIVE REASONING.
"Belief" is a cult aspect of TMS authors. Cult aspects cause pressure to conform. Dr. Sarno's reasoning on this is flawed when he said "One MUST refute the physical in order to get better"(paraphrasing).
That is a collectivist ideal and adds pressure to be like 'the other kids".
Simple deductive logic can address it better. It's easier to prove TMS by looking at what it is NOT.
"Do I have any pain free moments?" Evidence of it NOT being physical.
"What are these moments?" Evidence that there is a feeling or mental state that correlates to pain free moments.
"Does my pain go away when I sleep, and start all over once my mind kicks in when I wake up?" Evidence of non physical cause
"When I am busy or active, does my pain seem to be LESS noticeable?"
Evidence of psychogenic origin, since 'real' injuries do not act this way.
Why rely on faith or belief, when you could use evidence?
In the end, I suggest that being diagnosed with TMS is the first step, after all other tests prove negative.
It's silly to expect someone with physical pain not to think it's physical in cause and nature. But once the pain goes, you KNOW it was TMS all along. That's one of the benefits of being pain free and beating TMS. It gives you ridiculous hindsight.Debs,
Your post sounds like you already had an "aha" moment right there.
Armchair described it perfectly. You are seeing what TMS does and is.
I was watching Eckhart Tolle speak about the intention of being a 'better person', and how it rarely works if it is something you actively try to change. True change comes about just by being aware of what is wrong in your thought process.
I find this is true. Just by being aware that TMS is on your mind all day, your mind now knows and this awareness will change it by itself, IMO.
TMS is on the mind of many people with the chronic form. So is it the constant thinking of TMS which gives it th fuel to keep going, or is it the constant pain that makes you think about it all day?
Chicken or the egg. I think it's both. But the one which you have control over to stop the cycle, is your part(the thought process).
We think about TMS all day because we want to control it. We think that if we think about it, it equates to ACTION. Thoughts are not action. Thoughts are garbage. TMS likes garbage.
I would seriously advise you to seek therapy for your TMS. You are a severe TMS sufferer like I was. Along with the 'self hatred' issues and low self esteem, you should talk to someone who is trained in what this all means.
At this point, I'm convinced you fit the severe TMS model.
Read your OWN posts over and over. Does this sound like someone who would have a smooth running Autonomic Nervous System? Does your bodily pain match your thought process? Yes it does.
Could a calm Nervous System exist in someone like yourself, as you are in life right now? I highly doubt it.
If I berated you all day, like you do yourself, how would your chemistry and subconscious react to me if I screamed obscenities at you all day and told you 24/7 how worthless you are?
Because that is what is going on in your own brain.
Trust me, I know 'self hatred'. I mastered the game to the point where I also hated everyone else on the planet and every morning I woke up I LITERALLY stuck my middle finger to the sky and said "Go **** yourself God", and I meant it.I was suicidal and borderline homicidal in my worst TMS days. WHat I really hated was my EGO, I now know that.
The EGO can be dangerous. I feel that it is responsible for most wars and crime in the world. TMS is just a symptom of the Ego run rampant in the negative. I believe TMS sufferers are ALL guilty of this. Even the 'people pleaser' types.
But I digress. Try and find a therapist who is versed in Mind/ Body syndromes. Writing your concerns on a forum can only do so much.
Good Luck.
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sarita
130 Posts |
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hottm8oh
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 15:10:28
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It took me quite a while to figure out that, for ME, intellectually acknowledging my feelings did nothing to ease my pain. My problem was mostly based on the fear of the pain itself. So although my pain was definitely psychosomatic, and I believe it was caused by a traumatic event in my life some years ago. It stayed around because I was too focused on it. The pain didn't exist because I was repressing my true feelings about my job or my spouse or my childhood. I was still a slave to the fear, stress, anxiety, and trauma of being in pain. What really pushed me over the edge was WebDan's post on what to say when you talk to yourself. It was a huge help for me.
I do sometimes have mild pain episodes when the perfectionism kicks in, but I just remind myself that it's the perfectionism, and the pain slowly subsides. Sometimes I have to sleep it off, but it always goes away. The difference now is that I can tell myself that it WILL go away rather than sending myself into a panic over how bad it will be or how long it will last. As long as I was anticipating the pain, expecting it, going into panic mode over it, then the pain would stay.
Maybe you are focusing too much on what could be the cause of the pain and not enough on forgetting about the pain and looking forward. When Sarno would say "forget about the pain", I didn't quite understand what he meant. Now I get it. |
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marsha
252 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 15:26:21
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I am not any better. When I first met Dr. Sarno in 1999 I was a mess. Taking care of elderly parents who did not appreciate any efforts on their behalf. My mother had Borderline Personality Disorder. My father was very weak and had very no ability to care about himself let alone his children. In addition he was a very angry person. Both of my parents alienated every friend and members of their extended family.
Any way after seeing Sarno and doing all the work I remained pain free within 7 months.
This is a relapse. Almost two years of continual constant pain. Just as bad as the first time. The truth is I have been optimistic because I know for sure that this has nothing to do with any physical abnormality.( Had another MRI) It has just been in the last few days that I have been wondering if knowing is enough.
I could probably give Sarno's lecture on my own. I have read all of his book so that they are committed to my memory. In October I went to see him again for some reinforcement.
I go to the gym 3 or 4 times a week. No pain at the gym. Maybe I should move in there. I am retired and really have a good life. Nothing to stress me out. Well that isn't totally true , having TMS stresses me out.
I am an artist and that is very fulfilling. I attend Stonybrook University on Long Island where I take courses . I am a member of the Board of Directors at the Condo community where I live. My life is full..But I can't take a walk around the block without being in excruciating pain..
I have been talking to my brain..writing in my journal,meditating and dealing with issues as they come up.
So talking to my brain hasn't helped this time but talking here on this forum certainly has. I am in the company of people who can identify with my pain..know how frustrating all of this is and not judge me or think I am nuts because I believe that my pain is psychosomatic.
I thank you all.
Marsha |
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Webdan65
USA
182 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2009 : 16:54:38
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Marsha:
I know you say you aren't feeling any better. For me, I had plenty of times where the pain was there and despite journaling, trying to meditate and talk to my brain - the pain persisted.
It was only once I began the mental reprogramming with the techniques I share in this post that I began to see progress.
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5176
I don't know about anyone else, but the constant journaling on the negative emotions was downright depressing. I'm a firm believer in this...
WHAT YOU FOCUS ON MAGNIFIES. Focus on your pain and it will get worse. Focus on how miserable you are at work, at home, with your spouse, with your aging parent - the worse you feel about that particular situation.
I got to the point by journaling about the minor issues I had between me and my wife - that I got more and more negative about her to the point where I became very unhappy with her and our relationship.
I had to choose NOT to focus on the negatives to save my own sanity.
For me - "what you focus on magnifies" is the key. I've decided to focus on the good things in my life. Maybe that is contrary to the Sarno theories of embracing our negative emotions - but it's what works for me.
Just the fact that you have no pain while at the gym tells me that programming has taken control.
When you are NOT at the gym, you expect pain and it's there waiting for you. Perhaps it is tied to the emotions in the place you are. The gym may represent an escape for you where you can "work out" your stress, anger and frustrations. When you get back home - perhaps the stresses of daily living come flooding back.
Food for thought...
Dan
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pandamonium
United Kingdom
202 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2009 : 04:53:56
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For me the benefit of knowing was that I had HOPE for the future, that I could be pain free at some point, rather than physically getting getting worse and fearing the future.
Hang in there Marsha
Panda.
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A beginner's guide to psychology: If it's not your mum's fault.... it's your dad's... |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 07:34:22
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Hi Marsha,
I was helped tremendously by Sarno...a full cure for RSI. But if it had not helped me significantly after 6 months I would have moved on. If I wasn't sure it was psychological, I would have investigated other causes. If I was convinced of the psychological root, I would have sought other help, including medication and investigation of anxiety, depression and other treatments for somatic pain or alexithymia.
TMS theory and work can be great, but don't believe it's the only answer or that it will work on its own for everyone. That's religion rather than science, and if it's not working for you and you've really tried it all please consider moving on.
The brain is an almost incomprehensibly complex system. At this point, and into the foreseeable future, any psychological answers we come up with are simplifications of a largely unknown system. "TMS", "Depression", "Anxiety" and all their described mechanisms are all partial pictures -- little snapshots of the answer as to what makes us tick. And there are many partial answers that can help get you there. Because really we don't know the whole system and anyone who claims they know "the one answer" is engaging in wishful thinking, as is human nature. But this is your life, and 2 years is a big chuck to lose. And if it goes on to 10 or 20 that's worse...especially if you're chasing answers where you don't seem to be finding them.
Alexis |
Edited by - alexis on 05/16/2009 08:22:01 |
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marsha
252 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 09:58:18
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Hi Alexis,
The problem for me is that I am sure it is TMS. Pain killers put me to sleep, physical therapy is a waste if time and chiropractic care is pointless. I have profited from therapy and no longer dwell on the pain of my past. Whatever rage I have will always exist in my subconscious . At this point I believe I coexist with my past experiences..those things that make me me..
Move on to what? If I really believe TMS is the cause there isn't any place else to go.
I have been to orthopedics and neurologists . Tests galore...After all these years I think I would have been dead if there was something seriously wrong.
Maybe I'll just change my focus .
Move on. Let go.
Who knows..
Thanks,
Marsha |
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crk
124 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 10:07:12
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Webdan, I agree with you about the focus. For me, the first time I did journaling it was enough. When subsequent tms triggers came up, I had to go further. I had to use what I learned about "child primitive" to uncover what unhealthy perceptions were causing the pain *now*. If I hadn't journaled I would not have known from what springs my brain was drawing the poison. But I had to go further and change my perceptions based on those discoveries. Example: I'll call it father crap (hurts resulting in my relationship with my dad) -- it was warping my perceptions of my marriage relationship.
Sarita - Thanks again for copying the insightful words of that person. I loved it. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 11:17:01
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Hi Marsha,
I do think that there still are places to go even if it is something very akin to TMS...I've seen so many people recover from pain they thought would last forever. But even within "TMS" there are a lot of interpretations of what it is...is it more like "autonomic overload" is it "distraction syndrome" or strictly an implementation of "repressed rage". Even among those who generally agree I see differences of opinion. And a lot of overlap in theories under other names that are often better studied.
Have you tried more than one type of therapy? Have you researched and tried medications other than pain killers (if deemed appropriate, antidepressants and/or anti anxiety meds?). What kind of exercise are you doing at the gym? Regular rigorous cardio-vascular exercise from what I've read has a much better success rate with most psychological conditions than therapy or meditation or medications.
I don't know the answer of course...I wish I did. Good luck.
Alexis |
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fibri
Belgium
56 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2009 : 12:27:12
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Sarita, thanks for posting that post. It really is great.
I know I should do some journaling to be able to identify some of the "crap" but I have rehashed my past for years and years and feel that dwelling on it is just depressing. I like the Positive Psychology movement led by Seligman, where you focus on your strengths and on what makes you happy, rather than wallowing in the past. Anyway, if you've had a lot of s*** in your past, you'll never really know what one thing is the focus of your rage, and does it really matter?
That said, I want to learn a bit more about the child-primitive, and do a bit of journaling to get focused. But I don't feel like doing it for months or years!
That post reminded me of my thoughts when I quit smoking some years ago. I used to treat my cravings like a little devil (the addiction devil) inside me who was creating my cravings so that I would feed it and it could survive. Every time I craved a cigarette I laughed at it saying "I won't feed you, devil, and you will just fade away and die" then I would move on to thinking about something else, knowing that even too much attention was feeding it.
BTW, when I used the word devil I pictured a ridiculous little cartoon red devil with spiky ears and a tail. I'm not religious and I treated this image as the epitome of silly, self-important nonsense.
Maybe if I could dismiss and ridicule my TMS like this I could also make it curl up and die :-) |
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What is the benefit of knowing?
