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tcherie
72 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2009 : 10:17:30
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I think its really about reprogramming the mind, and believing that we can do this. I had read Sarno's HBP and MBP, and Amir's book,and watched Sarno's dvd's but still was about the same. It wasn't until I began to read Sarno's MBP a second time that I really began to notice improvement.
It was almost as if I didn't fully get it the first time. I also started observing things around me because I started to feel like my body was fragile and prone to pain. What I noticed was how other people who were not afraid of pain moved and pushed their bodies and did not seem to have any pain. I was watching a dance show in which one of the dancers did a flip into a "head stand". Yes you understood me correctly, he flipped onto his head. As I was watching that my pain decreased some. I realized that my body is not fragile, I have not done anything to my body nearly as dangerous yet I am feeling some pain. It has to be something else to it. So I am rereading slowly MBP. The first time I was just breezing through it because I just wanted a quick fix. This time I am taking my time and really trying to understand what Sarno is saying, and I am doing better as a result. |
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Monte
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 13:49:21
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When discussing psychotherapy you need to keep one big huge thing in mind.
If you go and clean up your past issues, traumas and unfinished business...But do not change how you are repressing all of this emotional energy (issues) in the first place then you are only fixing half of the problem.
You have resolved a past issue but you are currently still repressing emotional energy with your currents thought patterns and behaviors.
I have consulted with many Sarno patients who went the psychotherapy route ( and I am not saying this is wrong or bad) and they made peace and resolved there big huge issues....And guess what they are still in Pain!
Why is that? They still worry and generate inner tension. They still get angry and have an outburst and repress this anger. The still behave in their controlling or people pleasing behaviors---and when they do they are generating inner tension and keeping this pain disorder in their life.
You must change the way you are Repressing emotional energy and the way you are generating inner tension in order to permanently reverse this disorder.
Do your therapy if you think that is right for you...but make sure you identify how you are repressing emotions with your thougths and behaviors and work as much on that as anything...and then when you resolve your past issues you won't be creating as many new ones!
Monte Hueftle
http://www.runningpain.com |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 13:58:32
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I think the opposite is true as well: you can change your behaviour / reactions to present situations but if there are unresolved issues from the past then they will still crop up in one form or another.
Psychotherapy can deal with both aspects.
In fact, I would have thought unresolved issues from the past could have a big influence on how one reacts to present situations. Just my opinion as a lay person, of course.
Hilary N |
Edited by - HilaryN on 01/27/2009 14:02:06 |
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Monte
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 14:10:14
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| true maybe. cleaning up a past trauma of 30 years ago that a person believes is the cause of their pain is not going to change the worry/people pleasing/striving thougths that they are engaged in at the present moment. |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 14:29:22
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But why would we get those thoughts?
Would not the striving for perfection be, for example, the result of a critical parent whose approval one could never gain?
The people-pleasing a result of not enough demonstrative love as a child?
The worry, perhaps because that's what one's parents (or significant adult) always did?
Well, I do a lot of reading and you've dealt with a lot of patients - practice is worth a lot more than theory!
Hilary N |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 15:04:32
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I have to agree with Hilary. When you get at your past traumas, issues and unfinished business and you have a good professional who can help you understand and make sense of that past baggage, then the anger and worry and people pleasing behaviors wither away. Yes, wither away.
To take one of Hilary's examples, this is how it should work: When the therapist helps you see that the perfection and approval you are seeking, say, at the office from your boss, is directly related to your critical parent whose approval you could never gain, it stops you in your tracks (hopefully) and you can say, oh geez, that's what this is...the behavior looks irrational all of a sudden and you can change it.
This kind of turn-about happened over and over in my own psychotherapy and I am changed for the better, but I will have to continue working on this, how long, I don't know...We learned how to deal with the world as children, so if we're not functioning well, we have to turn back to the education that we received and expose it for what it was, good or bad. And if it was bad, we have to re-educate ourselves in order to change and be healthy.
Could I have done it on my own? I tried. But, I out-think the books and even my own journaling...I was always left with more questions. I needed someone to just affirm where I was going throughout the process. I needed someone to say and point to "this" and "not that." I needed someone to clear things up when my perceptions were distorted (which was a lot), when my anger was inappropriate (which was often), when I was afraid I was dying, or had Lyme disease or had a physical condition that would never be cured (none of the above of course). I needed someone to put labels on some things in my past and not judge others.
So, I think people are fearful enough about going to a psychotherapist without warnings coming up on this Forum. Sarno recommends it because it can be powerful and transformative and it does work, to resolve unfinished issues AND change bad habits. If any warning should go out, I would think it would be about finding the right psychotherapist. That is not so easy. Personally, I wasted time with some charlatans, longer than I should have because I was vulnerable. But if you're here, you can look back on dozens of posts that give suggestions for finding a good one. If you're in the tri-state area, you can call Sarno and he can refer you. The Wiki is working on a referral list as well.
This last round of psychotherapy was a miracle for me. I was in really bad shape a year ago. I just think that if you've tried everything else, you journal and are reading all the books and coming to this Forum and you know you have TMS and you're not getting better, then go! |
Edited by - winnieboo on 01/27/2009 17:18:14 |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2009 : 15:43:27
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| Also, I think that in order to get well, you have to believe that you can. It's that simple. You have to make a decision that you will do it. You have to salvage some hope somewhere in your crying heart. Summon your faith, summon that last shred of inner strength, whatever you have to do to find the hope and take it from there. You will get better. |
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Monte
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 11:35:00
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I agree with the psychotherapy route, the hypnotherapy route, etc.
For it to be most effective don't expect the therapist to be the holy grail...In any of these therapies the "patient" still has to open up and allow and experience in order to have a transformative experience.
And I can not stress enough that you must recognize and change the way you as a person create inner stress/tension/anxiety in your life.
So let's say you strive because you are seeking approval and this is in response to the way your mother treated you 30 years ago....and now you understand where your mother was coming from and you forgive her and now this is all good.
Does this realization and experience now stop you from striving and does it stop the chronic thought patterns that create the inner tension/anxiety? No, you have been behaving and thinking a certain way for 30 years so you are not going to all of a sudden, because you made peace with a repressed issue---act, think and behave in a new way that doesn't create tension. This is still a big part of the work...and a good therapist can help you here also.
When you start your therapies the other big huge thing is to not make all of this such a big huge thing. Stop talking about it, stop thinking about, stop blogging about it, stop asking about it, wondering, doubting, and searching. All of this is communication back to this pain disorder strategy that it still has you! Even though you are doing the work, if you keep searching, asking, wondering, talking about it, questioning it....gues what....it still has you. And then you think, well maybe I need to find a different therapist, or maybe this is physical, or maybe I have more really big repressed issues...and you guessed it....the pain disorder has you and you are stuck.
So do your work, don't make such a big deal about all of this, don't make it your life and suddenly it will not be in your life.
And yes all of you can reverse this disorder!
Monte
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marsha
252 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 15:17:03
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Thank you Monte for your consistant good guidance.
After your last post I realized that for all of my life physical pain has take the place of most of my emotion. There have been a few times when I have really felt emotion and they were very over the top. Then I felt guilty for my out of control response.
I have journaled and examined my life over and over and know what it is and how it all happened making me a TMS mega sufferer. What I didn't realize was that I needed to recognize how I repressed all those feelings.
I am facing my fears dealing with my emotions and paying very little attention to my physical discomfort.
I woke up this mornig feeling so very optomistic..looking forward to the day, knowing that I will recover. I'm not waiting or looking for this recovery around every corner. It will come when it comes.
I think I may have had a bit of discomfort today..or maybe not.
Marsha |
Edited by - marsha on 01/30/2009 20:21:56 |
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richardadams39
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2009 : 05:07:10
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| winnieboo, if you don't mind me asking, what is the name of your therapist? |
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2009 : 07:55:20
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Hi, Richard,
Winnieboo mentioned the wiki's list. We're doing a survey of TMS therapists. The survey was conducted over the internet, so you should verify relevant information before employing anyone found through the list. You can find the current results here:
http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/page/TMS+Therapist+Survey+Responses
As of Feb 1, 2009, we have the following results:
TMS therapists who completed the survey:
Hasanna Fletcher, LMFT us
Barbara A. Kline, LCSW-C us
TMS physical therapists/physiotherapists who completed the survey:
Georgie Oldfield, MCSP UK (Georgie is very committed to the TMS approach)
Other TMS professionals who completed the survey (click on results to learn more):
Monte Hueftle us
TMS therapists who didn't complete the survey, but did respond:
Arlen Ring, Ph.D.us
This list should grow as more therapists learn about it or talk with the first several therapists who have included themselves. In general, the TMS wiki is still less than 1 month old and will continue to grow, though probably a little more slowly than before.
Forest |
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 13:04:45
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I think we have to realize that anything that is causing pressure in our lives can keep the pain alive and can also make it worse. If you put pressure on yourself to find what emotion(s) you are repressing and get frustrated, than you can actually make yourself worse.
In other words, trying to figure out what causes TMS can create more tension in some people. |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2009 : 19:20:44
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| Richard, I am not in the UK and unfortunately, I know she doesn't consult via phone, email or internet. I would definitely recommend consulting the wiki list! |
Edited by - winnieboo on 02/02/2009 19:21:50 |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 04:25:58
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Monte...very good posts, made me think alot.
btw, Winnie, don't say I did'nt warn you, but I'm waiting for that success story         |
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richardadams39
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 06:52:53
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Yeah I agree that Monte's post is very helpful,
"When you start your therapies the other big huge thing is to not make all of this such a big huge thing. Stop talking about it, stop thinking about, stop blogging about it, stop asking about it, wondering, doubting, and searching. All of this is communication back to this pain disorder strategy that it still has you! Even though you are doing the work, if you keep searching, asking, wondering, talking about it, questioning it....gues what....it still has you. And then you think, well maybe I need to find a different therapist, or maybe this is physical, or maybe I have more really big repressed issues...and you guessed it....the pain disorder has you and you are stuck."
Does that mean that those who are yet to recover from TMS should stop looking at this forum, stop being in touch with fellow sufferers etc.? |
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richardadams39
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 06:55:02
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Also, winnie - I thought it might be helpful for me to ask my therapist to contact another therapist that has successfully treated a TMS patient. Maybe she could get some tips from her?
Was your therapist TMS-trained? Do you think a non-TMS trained therapist could also successfully treat me? |
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 08:51:25
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| The Hasana Fletcher and Barbara Kline pages on the wiki survey have email addresses. They both claim to be licensed therapists who have had TMS and treated patients with TMS. They may be willing to speak with your therapist. You might have better luck with them since, by responding to the survey, they have already indicated that they care about TMS and are interested in helping people. |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 09:34:10
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Richard,
My therapist has asked that I not post or email her name, or even refer her outside of my town. I hope you understand. She is actually very kind but is not young (70-ish?) and has her hands full with a what appears to be a very busy practice. So sorry...
I honestly don't know if you could be treated successfully with a non-TMS therapist--you would be the best judge! Sarno recommends psychodynamic therapy. My person is psychodynamic and yes, she knows about TMS.
There is so much excellent advice on this thread:
1) know that any therapist won't be your "holy grail"--or "one-stop"
2) know that there are two steps to successful psychotherapy: resolving issues and changing behavior
3) reading is helpful...Claire Weeks was mentioned here...excellent, very in line with Sarno, but I think even more accessible and helpful
I also find MUCH solace in my religious faith.
And Skiz,
I'm not ready to post a success story. I'm very much improved and enthused about the progress, but the road has been complicated. When the time comes and I can pass along something helpful and concise, I will.. |
Edited by - winnieboo on 02/03/2009 09:35:49 |
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richardadams39
United Kingdom
16 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 09:43:47
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Thanks winnie - I do totally understand. I may get in touch with Hasanna or Barbara but think it best I ask my own therapist if she thinks it a good idea that they liaise first.
Thanks for all your advice guys - hopefully one day I'll be able to pass on advice to other people! |
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Monte
USA
125 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2009 : 09:49:03
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Richard,
In reply to your question...
So this is where I get blasted, but it is Truth and it is the most important advice I could give anyone that is in your situtation.
You know TMS. You know the cause of tms. And you should know that there is a big, huge strategy at work within this disorder.
The #1 thing that you want to communicate back to this disorder strategy is that you accept it 100%. This is Sarno's big, huge key when he says "think psychologically".
That being the case, anything and I really mean anything that you are doing and thinking that is "outside" of yourself is keeping you stuck in this pain disorder. You are distracted and you are communicating back to the disorder that you are not 100% accepting.
You know everything you need to know about tms...do your inner work. Yes have someone help you if you are inclined but the more you search for the fix, talk about it, think about, fear it, begin to doubt it, which leads to more searching and talking and wondering....you get the picture...The pain disorder strategy has you. Why would it let you go?
Monte Hueftle
monte@runningpain.com |
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Still no improvement, psychotherapy?
