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andrews65
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
 Posted - 08/19/2008 : 08:23:23
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Hi – I'm having a period of doubt about TMS and need some reassurance. I have chronic pain that feels like an impinged nerve in my left shoulder (with tingling in left arm) full story is here http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4187 ; over 16 years I've tried lots of physical therapy and other treatments with no lasting effect, which led me to look at TMS. I've had scans and xrays that confirm there is no structural problem. I often have periods of several months where the pain reverts to an insignificant level, but these seem to be getting less frequent ... I've only had 3 good months in the past year. I am 100% convinced there is a psychological element to the condition, but so far (6 months) I've not been able to harness TMS so that it works for me; I've not had a TMS diagnosis – there are no therapists near me, and just now my thinking is “its more likely it is chronic shoulder tension causing the pain, derived from my IT job, and I just have not yet found the correct treatment for it”. I suppose the muscle tension could be a TMS equivalent, but 'cos I've had no lasting results I'm unsure. As an aside, I've just started practising meditation, and immediately I've found it gives some relief so this is something I will continue.
Can anyone offer me some nuggets of advice or support?
Thanks, Andrew. |
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n/a
48 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 08:26:41
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| Sounds like TMS to me. I've had shoulder pain since I was a teenager, and it also seems worse when I stand for a long time etc, but I think it also depends what I am doing. Would you be able to do phone therapy with a TMS specialist? |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 09:15:30
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I'll just recommend you read your own post and compare it to the list of signs that pain might be TMS in the TMS literature...in brief:
1) chronic without response to physical treatment
2) no structural problem shown in scans
3) non-physical behavior change helps (meditation)
"Chronic tension" is exactly TMS -- that's pretty much the definition of it. There's no such physical ailment as "chronic tension". And I'm happy to inform you that unless you mean the mental distress from an IT job, it's not possible that the job is causing you injury -- computers don't do that. :)
The reason you haven't had success is most likely pretty simple -- despite having clear signs of it, you still don't believe you have TMS, nor do you act as if you believe. Rather, you doubt and hem and haw and wish you could have a doctor tell you and believe you have some other problem called "chronic tension". It's very common -- I went through a period of about six months where I'm pretty sure I sounded just like you do right now -- but it won't work. I didn't get any better until I committed to thinking of my RSI as TMS.
That's the leap you have to make now. Really, after 16 years of failed physical treatments, what do you have to lose?!
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What were you expecting? |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 10:17:56
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Hi-
Armchair couldn't have said it better (as usual!)...
I read your story and I sympathize. I've been dealing with TMS or psychosomatic symptoms of some kind all my life, but the most severe and recent were neck and shoulder pain with a tingling elbow (for about a year). I'm very stubborn and had a hard time eliminating the doubt I had about my TMS.
But it's the doubt that perpetuates the symptoms.
I wanted to believe that a cure could come through a pill, doctor or other quick fix. I tried them all. But the remedy, not to sound overly dramatic, is inside ourselves. Meditation is great and relief will come when you find what works best for you. If you haven't seen it already, there's a great thread on this forum with lists of what's working for people. |
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Elorac
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 13:02:53
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Hi Andrew. I only found out about TMS about a month ago and am in the early stages of recovery, so I don't yet have much personal experience to go on, but I have gathered that doubting the TMS diagnosis is one of the symptoms of the TMS itself. Your mind wants you to doubt and will come up with various feasible physical alternatives to make you doubt that it is a psychologically based pain. Try reading your posts in chronological order and imagine that the posts are not yours but someone else's and see what advice you would give them. Someone on here said that reading other people's posts, it's easy to see obvious signs that it's TMS, but when you're dealing with your own circumstances you can't always see it yourself.
I am in the U.K. also, and fortunately not too far from the clinic in Yorkshire. I am going to see Georgie later this week, because I feel I will benefit from a formal diagnosis, and also I have a few stumbling blocks that I think she will be able to help me with. If you could possibly get a formal diagnosis it might help. If you were diagnosed with TMS by a professional who is trained and experienced with TMS it might help to get rid of any doubt.
Best wishes, Carole. |
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MAbbott
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 16:06:21
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Andrew,
I have understood lately that shoulder pain is the new back pain. As we recognize in our culture that back pain is connected to life stresses, the mind needs a new area to focus on: how about the shoulder? Shoulder pain is becoming epidemic. Look at your life and defy that pain -or- let it lead you to what you need to figure out emotionally.
Best wishes,
M Abbott |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2008 : 12:17:16
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Hi Andrew,
3 suggestions:
1. In the link you posted samchar1 mentions that Georgie Oldfield does phone consultations.
2. Even better, what about taking some time off work and going to see her? Have a week's holiday in sunny Yorkshire. (It's got to be a bit sunnier than Edinburgh!)
3. If neither of these are possible you could try a Journey practitioner. There might be one near you. ("The Journey" by Brandon Bays.) That helped me.
Hilary N |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2008 : 18:54:27
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Hi Andrew.
I had scary shoulder pain last year. It started during a particular nasty period in my life emotionally (fighting with wife, first loss ever as a baseball tournament coach, frustration at work) BUT of course fear and doubt because: I had fallen on that shoulder hard while I was skateboarding (6 weeks before the pain set in LOL), I had thrown a particularly fierce round of batting practice after my team lost the state tourney (rage) and I had felt a twinge while lifting weights (angry at the Mrs)
 fear///confusion///it's TMS , right (doubt,doubt,doubt) Oh crap...I must have really hurt something...NO NO NO..it's tms right?
The part of it that scared me the most was that I KNEW if I have my shoulder MRI'd that they'd find torn stuff, because I have thrown baseballs HARD my whole life. ...about 35 years worth (I'm 42 and still going strong)
I got some clues it was TMS....it hurt bad on the way TOO work, but not so much on the way home UNLESS I was going home to watch the kids (alone)
It got the fiercest when I was working for one of our managers who I particularly don't like, but I particularly work harder for, lest he give my superiors a bad report (he hates my longhair,tattooed,shucking and jiving-ness....he's a tight wound A-hole)
In fact, I used fantasizing about telling him off as my TMS therapy...every time the pain came I had an imaginary conversation with him where I told him just what a big penis he was.
I got better in about 3 weeks from the day I realized how much I hated him. Keep in mind, I had been through the drill a few times by that point.
Every now and than I will still get a shiver of numbness, shot of pain through that shoulder and I just view it as an emotion passing through... I don't pay it much attention.
Needless to say, I am 100% cured, throwing baseballs and lifting weights pain , and most importantly FEAR free.
-bb65 |
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andrews65
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 04:19:26
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Hi, thanks for the responses everyone. I'm still thinking there is something 'on top of' TMS in the mix for me. I think I 'hold' the affected shoulder to protect it, as a legacy from my perception in the past that I've injured it. This is what makes me think my shoulder is tense most of the time. So when I lie down and relax the shoulder (imaging the muscles softening, etc) the symptoms often improve. But this attention to my shoulder to relax it is counter to what TMS teaches, which is to ignore the affected area and think psychologically. Maybe once I get more response to the core problem via my TMS work, the 'holding' will just stop .... but its a bit confusing just now, should I continue my efforts to relax the shoulder and gain relief even though it invloved attention to the painful area?
thanks, Andrew. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 09:10:58
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quote:
Maybe once I get more response to the core problem via my TMS work, the 'holding' will just stop ....
Yes, most likely. It's a learned response to pain, so if you keep having pain, the holding is going to be tough to deal with.
You might try doing a general body relaxation. That may get the benefits without the focus on the area.
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What were you expecting? |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 09:21:34
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You seem to be getting closer to the right frame of mind, but still your thoughts are firmly planted in the physical realm.
You need to try to ignore the shoulder and focus on the psychological issues. You have likely developed bad physical habits over time that contribute to the stiffness. When you become conscious of it, take a deep breath and just try to relax and release the tension, and then shift your thoughts immediately to the emotional realm. Do this repeatedly whenever you are aware of the symptom. This is a reconditioning process. |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 10:56:42
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Andrew,
Yes, it does work that way that the core work releases the bulk of the tension.
But I wanted to add that even after seven months of TMS work and being generally out of pain, I still notice my shoulders riding close to my earlobes. (I'm seeing on the forum that maybe I'm not alone b/c people are reporting that shoulder pain is trendy...)
I know I carry stress there anyway--my posture reflected that tension years before I ever had pain or a herniated disc diagnosis.
So for me, my shoulders are always the last thing to "let go," and this response is deeply ingrained. General body relaxation is part of my program, but during the day, I sit back in my chair and take a minute to (make myself) feel the tension release. And then, yes, as everyone has said, you then get yourself back to the emotional realm.
Once I start thinking about what just happened, why I'm stressed, who just said what to me, etc., I get involved with that and forget about my shoulders. But for me that whole loop is still somewhat conscious. |
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penguins
39 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2008 : 07:16:36
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Andrew,
My pain started as a stiff neck on the right side (woke up with it) and it went into my shoulder area. Initial diagnosis was radiculopathy. I then took tons of pain meds, anti-inflammatories, went to PT, chiro, accupuncture, massage... I stopped lifting weights and anything over my head because that's what "everyone" said to do. I was so depressed, despondant, angry, etc., since I had also been dealing with plantar fasciitis for many months prior to that. I'd visit a particularly horrible website that's out there about back pain that TOTALLY scares the heck out of you and makes you a ton more depressed because it seems that EVERYONE is so miserable with nothing but surgeries and pain ahead. Finally, I went to a back store one day in search of an inversion table (yeah, I was even going to try that) when Sarno's Healing Back Pain caught my eye. I had heard of it, but only the title, and never knew what it was truly about. I ordered the table and went home that night with the book and started reading. By the time the table was in for pick up, I was 80% pain free. Now (5 months later) except for occasional twitches, I'm 100%.
So here's what I did. I started reading the book as well as all the reviews on Amazon. I think those reviews were what helped "seal the deal" for me in believing in TMS. There are so many on there. I'd always instantly skip the negative ones. Wouldn't even allow them in my brain. I printed out the poem from Sarno's book as well as the daily reminders. I was going to paste them below for you but then I thought about it and I think doing it yourself will help the process. It'll give you more ownership if that makes any sense.
I printed out numerous copies of these and had them in strategic places as well as in my car. I constantly read them. I also memorized the poem and would say it allowed all the time (especially in the shower where there were no distractions -- I have a 4 year old, so those are few and far between!).
Finally, and equally as important as the other stuff, I began using weights, doing push ups, lifting things over my head, carrying the groceries in again... Each time I'd do one of these tasks I'd say out loud, "No pain, no fear." Over and over and over again. There were definitely days where the pain would be worse (especially after doing shoulder presses, skull crushers, triceps press, etc.) because I anticipated the pain. When that happened I simply read more, repeated the poem more, talked to my brain more, and it went away.
I'm at the point now where I can actually laugh at the neck/back twinges when they come. It's always during a stressful thought or moment. I have no fear of it anymore. I do use it as a reminder to look at my emotions.
Oh and I just wanted to add that during my year of hell with this pain I had numbness and tingling in my arm. I couldn't sleep because of the pain. It was difficult to work (I'm at my computer all the time). I was so absolutely terrified of what was going to become of my life. That fear perpetuated the pain. Fear is no joke and definitely something to take a deep look at.
To finish, (and I'm sorry this is so long) I just want to say that you can do this. I know how terribly hard it is. I'm now in the trenches again dealing with the pf. This one's taking a lot longer. Sarno says it takes longer for foot issues to resolve. That statement alone I'm sure keeps me from accepting. Try again to immerse yourself. I know you've read HBP a few times, but it's amazing what we can glean when we are ready. I just reread Dr. Sopher's book and there was a line in there that was extremely important to me that I had missed the first time. Try my suggestion of printing stuff out. Seeing it everywhere you turn. You have nothing to lose by trying (except maybe a few sheets of paper!).
Good luck to you. I want to read your success story when it does occur!!! Take care! |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2008 : 22:14:36
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I had the whole shoulder thing recently. Very bad pain and unable to move the arm for a few months. I kept going at the psychological aspect, but eventually went for physical therapy when I was losing mobility etc.
My Physical Therapist and the doc at the place did various things that helped a little bit, so I kept going. And then one day the PTist taped my shoulders back. He actually took medical tape and put it on me so that I couldn't hold my shoulders in their lifelong classic, slightly hunched position.
Now I've known I do this thing of hunching, and at certain very yogic times in my life, I've learned to move the shoulders back and down and enjoyed the more open feeling. But I never integrated this as a normal pattern. Suddenly by having no other option but to stay back, I found myself feeling very vulnerable. There was my heart (and breasts!) sticking out in front, without my rounded posture to protect them. Nothing I could do about it.
Mostly it felt unusual physically.... BUT... now it felt as though there was a lot more space in the place that was so inflamed you couldn't touch it without screaming. I think that I got a little injury (it started while boxing) and my holding pattern meant that the inflammation kept getting pushed on by the joint being impinged. And apparently, more space allowed the inflammation to settle down on its own without being re-battered.
After about one day I realized that I could now move my arm. Over a few days it got better and better until the graph of better versus "frozen" was moving so fast that I cancelled by PTist appointments.
I remembered that while in the ocean in Hawaii with the shoulder pain a few months earlier, I had felt guided to move my shoulders back and hold my arms behind my back, and it felt better. But I couldn't make it stick. Now, after the taping, which I did a couple more times, my body seemed to "get" the new posture. And now, without tape, when it starts to hurt MORE, I move them back, and it hurts LESS.
I apologize to any diehards for what may seem to be a naughty "physical" explanation. Believe me, I have multiple TMS, and I believe in it. But that doesn't mean that everything is always only TMS.
My explanation to myself is that the whole holding in a hunched position thing comes from my reservoir of rage, fear, etc. And my intelligent inner self found something to trigger it in what has been, in fact, a healing of a long-term holding pattern. Halleluia.
Again, I don't believe that everything has to follow the set, prescribed pattern of "had a problem, realized that of course it was TMS because I'm a TMSer, stopped believing it was physical, then it went away quickly or slowly." In fact, I didn't give in and treat it as physical for months - continuing going to the gym and doing weights and all even as my range of motion went down and my pain went up.
I am a great believer in optimizing my physical body by yoga and weights and so on.
I have a whole lot of stuff going on in my life (when don't I?) like family dying, etc. But I have had extreme stressful stuff going on for years - the kind of stuff where I can check off everything on a stress score list and win the gold It-Must-Be-TMS prize.
So - was my pain and loss of use emotional? Yes and no. As I KNOW it, for my reality, it was emotional, translated not through some master control panel sending not enough oxygen to the area, but through gradually shutting me down through clenched postural holding over many years.
If you have shoulder pain, I highly recommend that you check out whether it might be an impingement as well as whatever else you've got going on.
I'm having to learn to follow my own inner guidance as I incorporate my understanding of TMS into my real life experience. It's been a winding path in which I've had to not listen to fundamentalists on either side of the line (it IS physical and it's NOT physical). If you check my posts you'll see what a dire, 30-year desperate situation of fibromyalgia and other stuff I'm recovering from (and have mostly recovered from). Yet it hasn't been easy or a matter of "just realizing" one thing, so much as how different levels interact in my own experience and learning to follow the actual voice of inner guidance, rather than any voice, including my own, that thinks it knows any absolute truths.
xxx
Hope this is helpful to someone.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2008 : 08:25:30
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quote:
My explanation to myself is that the whole holding in a hunched position thing comes from my reservoir of rage, fear, etc. And my intelligent inner self found something to trigger it in what has been, in fact, a healing of a long-term holding pattern. Halleluia.
This is an excellent explanation.
quote:
I've learned to move the shoulders back and down and enjoyed the more open feeling
This can all be a metaphor for the inner life, no? |
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andrews65
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 13:46:38
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| Thanks for the posts. WavySoul, your post struck chords with me. More than one PT has identified that my left shoulder hunches forward; about 10 years ago I had it taped back a few times and it felt very good. However the strengthening exercises to persuade the shoulder to sit in the correct posture have never had a lasting effect, so I don't do them. I recently did some Pilates classes and one of the excercises was a carbon copy of what the physio had taught me so I'm tempted to continue those, since it was part of a general Pilates fitness program and not (this time) specifically targetting my shoulder problem. Maybe I just never gave those exercises enough of a chance when I first got them ... but I'm aware this thinking rapidly moves off-TMS-topic and may be counter productive. I have had scans and xrays which show no evidence of narrowing or impingement ... which is good from a TMS point of view. Another thing I'll probably do is see my local (200 miles away!) TMS practitioner who is also a physical therapist; hopefully she can dispel any doubt I might have on a physical basis for the symptoms. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2008 : 16:18:18
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Wavy,
Thanks for sharing that story. It reminds me of when I was near-incapacitated by neck/shoulder pain. I wore a very expensive clavicle-retractor type brace for a while, and the first thing I noticed was how much more easily I breathed than before. That reference to the open feeling is very familiar to me, and it was the beginning of the end for the pain.
Is bad posture to blame for the symptoms? Who knows, really, but why not attempt something like this to retrain yourself from the tense, tight way you are doing things now? Give the TMS approach a good whirl, then move along if you don't see results. After all, it is your body and your pain.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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andrews65
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 05:34:42
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Again, thanks for the replies.
Carole, if you get the chance could you drop me an email on how you got on at the Yorkshire TMS clinic? I'm working up to making the trip there.
thanks, Andrew. |
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Elorac
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 13:10:04
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| Have emailed you Andrew, hope it reached you OK. Carole. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 00:09:24
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Anyone see the interview with tennis former number 1 Maria Sharapova? She is out this year because of a shoulder thing that she calls "inflammation," although she insisted that the MRI DID show slight tears.
Watching her interview, I could see the defensiveness I have always felt when I've been wiped out by some symptom that I'm secretly afraid may have been emotional in source, but I couldn't change it and I didn't know good TMS theory, so what could I do except argue FOR my illness?
And the stress of being and staying #1 as a young tennis player is probably something like what I feel like when I have a bad hair day.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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TMS or chronic shoulder tension? - Help!
