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andrews65
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2008 : 06:53:26
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Hi -
I struggle with the classic Sarno theory that pain is caused by the subconscious in an effort to distract you from uncomfortable and inappropriate feelings. My experience seems to be that its a symptom of ongoing stress/anxiety and potentially 'wrong living'. If that's the case, shouldn't you act on it instead of the normal advice to ignore it? If it really is a warning sign, and you push through it, maybe your body will resort to something worse .....
On reading this, I'm aware there is possibly not a big difference between the two definitions. Are both the same? Are both correct?
thanks, Andrew. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 07:10:42
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Before I was done reading your post I thought:
"um hum...he's right...and he's right"
We are acting on it BY ignoring it, as long as we're doing prolly the most difficult thing in all of TMS recovery...that is CONSCIOUSLY and FORCEFULLY bringing to mind some unsavory thought/idea/feeling ..whatever...to RE condition the brain that this particular strategy isn't working.
I only put that in caps, because 'just ignoring' the pain has never done too terribly much for me. Obviously there are times when you can't do your TMS exercises and you have to ignore it....but it's ignoring it AND turning your conscious mind towards that unsavory thing that does the trick (over time, which varies)
But that IS acting on it...by not acting on it in the 3D world, but in a much harder place....in the head. We have a natural aversion to that, thus the anxiety..
But yeah, I think they are both correct
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 13:29:38
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quote:
Originally posted by andrews65
I struggle with the classic Sarno theory that pain is caused by the subconscious in an effort to distract you from uncomfortable and inappropriate feelings. My experience seems to be that its a symptom of ongoing stress/anxiety .....
That is circular reasoning -- Dr. Sarno believes stress/anxiety to be just another symptom, an equivalent of the pain.
Ignoring the anxiety -- "pushing through it" -- diffuses the symptom because it defeats its purpose. Of course, it does not happen immediately. It is necessary to do this over and over, every time you are aware of the symptom, to recondition your reaction to it.
If by "act on it" you mean to take steps to address the underlying emotional causes of these symptoms, that is certainly part of the recovery process. But to acknowledge the symptom as anything other than a benign signal would be contradictory. |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 00:56:03
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quote:
in an effort to distract you from uncomfortable and inappropriate feelings
These could be uncomfortable and inappropriate feelings for your inner child. Not for the sensible and reasonable adult you are. So you might feel you have uncovered all the possible issues and dealt with them but picture a child's tantrum. It's v hard for a parent to find out what exactly caused it or for the child to explain it but something flipped. |
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andrews65
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 06:13:37
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Thanks for your replies.
Scotty - Is your point that even though I might think I've investigated all psychological issues that may be contributing, there might be some I've missed from not using the right criteria to identify them? And these could be causing me pain/anxiety...? That's certainly possible.
Let me check I understand correctly on anxiety. A month ago I had a TMS recurrence after I threw myself into investigating starting my own business, something I really wanted to do. While doing this I felt anxious and the pain began to increase. The reality is that I have big doubts about my ability to run a business, but I did not admit this to myself at the time. So was the anxiety a TMS equivalent, to mask the inappropriate thought that this venture was not for me, or was it more simply anxiety at the prospect of a risky venture? I suppose it doesn't matter, since the way to proceed for both is to try to find the reasons for the anxiety and push through (provided you are OK with those reasons). |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 08:20:48
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quote:
Originally posted by andrews65
...even though I might think I've investigated all psychological issues that may be contributing, there might be some I've missed from not using the right criteria to identify them?
You cannot identify the true sources of the pain. They are unconscious and cannot be felt. The psychological issues you are aware of are only a small part of the equation. The symptoms exist to distract you from going deeper and revealing the rage being felt by the child inside.
quote:
...While doing this I felt anxious and the pain began to increase. The reality is that I have big doubts about my ability to run a business, but I did not admit this to myself at the time. So was the anxiety a TMS equivalent, to mask the inappropriate thought that this venture was not for me, or was it more simply anxiety at the prospect of a risky venture?
I would venture to guess that the real psychological issue here is low self-esteem. The thought that "this venture is not for [you]" is a manifestation of that. The child inside is angry that you are unable to do what it takes to become a successful entrepeneur. The child just wants to be left alone and not have to face the pressures of life. The child is in a rage over the fact that you would consider taking steps to increase these pressures. Or, perhaps the child is in a rage over the fact that you have such low confidence in your ability to succeed.
This is hypothetical, provided only as an example of a thought process you might want to explore. The key is to realize that no matter how much you think and analyze yourself, it doen't matter. You can't think your way out of TMS. You have to explore the real reasons inside that lead you to have those doubts about your ability to run a business. You have to try. |
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winnieboo
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 09:53:59
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Hi,
Yes to both the pain being a distraction and coming from stress. Working through it is probably more than thing than pushing through it, because I think you're right again, putting up resistance to anything in your body, thoughts or physical pain, is a negative move. Just leads to more resistance!
A helpful slogan that came from my therapist was to "go to the feelings" instead of the pain, and she added, "BE ALERT!" We often are so consumed with the pain that it's hard to pay attention to what's happening right in front of you (for example, my boss is unfair, my kids are irritating me, etc.) It can be as simple as that. Think of the pain as a camoflauge for what's going on in your moment. Being alert to immediate emotional reactions can be surprising when you're not used to it. Subconsciously, we fear feeling those emotions, so our body contracts and the pain crops up.
Obviously there's past stuff that conditions us, too. Therapy can be great, as whether it's past or present stuff, just talking can help to vent out some of the tension and modify ones thinking.
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andrews65
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 11:27:23
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| Thanks Dave, yes I see your point. So you proposing 'feeling' the rage rather than than thinking about/acknowledging the emotions, right? |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 12:33:54
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i suppose everyone is slightly different in their struggles. i can tell you mine. i've been in intensive psychotherapy for four months to get to the bottom of my intense anxiety. i'm a classic TMSer, and in the past have dealt with chronic low back pain, nasty gastro issues, arm and hand pain, etc. etc...you know the drill.
for most of my life, i have been incapable of feeling any real emotions other than frustration and bursts of anger, mostly toward myself. i was taught not to feel by my parents and family. as i work through my issues in therapy, each time we touch on something that makes me cry, the anxiety abates, even if only for a while.
before therapy, i hadn't cried in probably 20 years. i am just now starting to scratch the surface of my buried emotions, but at least it's a start. so i can tell you that - at least in my case - anxiety serves to distract AND signal that there's A LOT of emotions that need to be acknowledged and authenticated. in my case, i need to go even deeper and actually experience some of them.
it can be VERY hard to get to where you need to be for the symptoms to go away and it's easy to get totally discouraged, but few things worth doing are easy. and this is worth doing.
moose |
Edited by - moose1 on 08/15/2008 14:12:59 |
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Peg
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 16:26:04
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Good question/thread Andrew
I came across an article today that speaks to identifying and feeling our feelings to avoid repressing them. While there are a couple of things I don't buy (like previous life and "choming") overall I thought it was very good information.
http://www.mkprojects.com/fa_emotions.html
Peg
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei |
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What is the pain for?
