| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Suz
559 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2004 : 11:23:14
|
Dear all,
I wondered if anyone of you has included prayer as part of your emotional homework. Do any of you out there have a faith as part of your life? I have been doing the TMS work and have found it amazingly effective. I am still experiencing some minor TMS equivalents - the new one being some carpal tunnel pain in my left hand - I am sure it is just TMS. I am going to go to Sarno's small groups but may want to go into some sort of one on one therapy - doesn't greatly appeal to me as I don't like to wallow in my past - I would have to find someone who has a faith. I do believe that the way to switch off the TMS pain is through focusing on the emotional but I also stronly believe that only God is able to totally heal and change one. I don't want to go all super religious on you all. I am trying to combine both my beliefs and this TMS work - just wondered if anyone else had a similar situation.
thanks
Suz |
|
|
2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 12:10:17
|
Hi Suzzane, I am with you. That took guts to post what you did. It seems as though you are finding out that there is a spiritual aspect of TMS. I pray to, which gives me more hope and, peace that this pain will go away and it will. If you are interested there is a book out there called Deadly Emotions written by Don Colbert that may help you. He incorporates the Mind-Body-Spirit. You seem to be on the right track, just be patient. If you would like to talk with someone feel free to e-mail me @ mattrhoden@hotmail.com. Also Kenny V is a good person to talk to. Keep at it, you will be cured of this pain.
|
 |
|
|
Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 13:30:50
|
thanks Mat very much for that response.
It is strange that mentioning God is often received in a negative way - one can talk about anything else and be received with great tolerance and respect for freedom of opinion but get on to something spiritual and the same attitude is not applied - sort of strange double standards. I am glad that this board supports freedom of expression - as long as it keeps to the same goal - solving the TMS dilemma. My dilemma lies in the fact that I do not want to be so self involved - it is part of my faith to focus on being of service to others with the best intentions - on a good day - I get out of myself and am able to do that - so being so self focused does not tie in with this - sort of a conflict. I just feel so at peace when I apply the spiritual principles of helping one's neighbors - not judging people and trying to be kind and considerate. I do not get caught up in anger and so feel better. I don't expect the world to do what I want - just have to go with the flow. I have good days and bad days at this as I am human. I am using prayer to help me to stop perfectionist behaviour and relax about things - have you done this? Normally I don't pray for myself unless I think it could be helpful for others. |
|
|
|
2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 14:01:06
|
| One thing that this whole tms thing has done for me is it has helped me evaluate myself. I was always a worrier, and Sarno makes a reference that some of his patients worried a lot, but also the bible refers to worry. So I kind of got the connection that worry accomplishes nothing, what do I gain from worry, nothing but pain. Also I am a goodist, I always felt like did I do enough to make someone else happy, and againSarno saw that in his patients. As far as me being perfectionist, I guess I was in my own little way. I am not a neat freak or clean freak. I guess my perfectionism had to do with my life. Growing uo I had to have the nice car, I wanted a big house pretty wife, good health, be the best althlete. My life had to be perfect, no longer do I think like that. Since my mind was focused on these things, my spiritual life suffered. So it makes perfect sense to me that I needed this pain to slow me down so I could make the changes I needed to make and not let so many things bother me. So like I said before this is no battle, but a time for self-evalution. As far as praying for yourself there is nothing wrong with asking to be a better servant or a better person. |
|
|
|
n/a
21 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 14:05:16
|
Religious beliefs and Spiritual beliefs(thinking) are two distinctly different areas of thought for me and I am presently drawn to spirituality and not to formal religious beliefs. This is not a right or wrong thing for me or anyone -- it is just what is working for me now and how I am evolving.
How does all this shake out with TMS??? GOOD QUESTION, because in the beginning, I didn't know how to resolve my own personal thinking when I began working on ANGRY, RAGEFUL (so-called NEGATIVE) emotions within myself starting the TMS work. I said to myself -- "Isn't the goal to get BEYOND negativity and perpetuate happiness and peacefulness within myself?" "Won't happiness and tranquility have a more healing consequence within me? -- Why stir up all this negativity?" Well, in spite of all my "spirituality" and positive thinking the PAIN CONTINUED.
The first person to address this particular issue for me was Dr. Sopher in his book -- He says, in effect, it is CORRECT THINKING about our own particular emotional issues that will begin to resolve the TMS pain -- not spiritual or religious thinking. With his words I began to see that FEELING my present emotional state without judgement was my goal (be it up, down or around) and that I had been labeling my emotions(if I was able to feel them at all)-- and using spiritual ideas about "positive thinking" to avoid feeling and acknowledging negativity (rage and anger) and thus perpetuating TMS.
John Lee in his book, Facing the Fire -- helped me with these concepts as well.
Now, I do not label any feeling as good, bad or indifferent -- I just invite them ALL in and FEEL them for all they're worth and this seems to work quite well for alleviating TMS. And I act them out appropriately.
Delving into the past -- yup, I have done that -- the inner-child work. This work kind of cracked things open. These exercises helped crack my emotionally "numbed-out" state and the intellectualization process that I was perpetuating -- keeping TMS alive. I haven't had to KEEP mulling over my past pain because that brief work brought my feelings to the surface NOW and it is helping me to live presently with more consciousness. But if I get "stuck" again and TMS becomes the bell-weather for the stuckness, I will not hesitate to use the past as a gateway to my feeling self in the present.
I am also more aware of living in the present and being conscious of my SELF as a spiritual and fully feeling being. What has brought me healing is the understanding that my rich emotional nature is not GOOD or BAD -- POSITIVE or NEGATIVE it is just me and I am learning to live and love it ALL.
|
|
|
|
Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 15:05:01
|
Very interesting, Sunfish. I love your approach to the accepting of yourself without judgement. This is something I need to work on - after all I try not to judge others. It is so nice to hear that you delved into your past for a short period of time in order to shed light on your thinking patterns now - that gives me great comfort. I I just don't want to get caught in going to therapy for ever.
Mat - I know just what you mean about looking for things to fill the void - the perfect life of great house, car etc, fantastic paying job - these things do not hold nearly as much importance in my life today as they did not bring me peace- I actually think they were all about my ego.
Great insight - that this pain would force one to slow down and reevaluate oneself - God works in mysterious ways!
Thank you both for such insightful, helpful responses |
|
|
|
shelliebill
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 16:02:57
|
Sunfish,
Thanks for a well-written, insightful post on what around here can be a hot-button. As someone who looks more to personal spirituality than formal religious worship, I could really relate to your musings.
When I stopped labelling my emotions as good, bad, etc., I was able to begin honestly feeling my emotions instead of just judging them. That was also when I lost my fear of getting sucked down by negative emotions to the exclusion of the positive things in my life.
I've also noticed that my attempts at meditation can begin or end in a more traditionally religious context. I may be upset and find myself 'praying' for guidance and it will evolve into a more meditative state that just clears my mind without being what I would consider a formal prayer.
I guess I'm saying that the lines become blurred for me. I was raised Roman Catholic with all the trimmings, so I can never turn that off totally, even though I find organized religion to be somewhat divisive and exclusionary.
My very devout grandmother said a rosary every day and I always mentally thought of it as being a form of meditation with the world's longest mantra
Guess, like with everything else, we all have to find the unique recipe that works for each individual.
|
|
|
|
n/a
21 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 16:51:27
|
Hi ShellieBill and all --
After I wrote this post I got in the shower and the word "GOODIST" rang like a gong in my head -- and since it is this tendency toward "goodism" and not being "good enough" that got me into TMS hotwater in the first place, I began thinking about my wanting to be "good" to the exclusion of acknowledging the other (so-called dark) side of my personality. I began to giggle to myself -- thinking things like "I think I will be a "badist" for a while (maybe just a teensy weensy while)-- brake the mold and LOVE all of me.
It feels very good to have such a safe place to share. THANKS DAVE. |
|
|
|
austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2004 : 19:18:13
|
one can talk about anything else and be received with great tolerance and respect for freedom of opinion but get on to something spiritual and the same attitude is not applied
I think while that is the case in some venues, that, in general, just the opposite is closer to common experience.
People are typically tolerant of even the most outlandish and impossible religious beliefs while they are hostile to those who take a naturalistic view and reject the supernatural. |
|
|
|
Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 08:07:00
|
Sunfish,
I know just what you mean - a big part of why I have TMS is because of my "goodist" tendencies" -
However, that is very different to the practice of my faith. To be a "goodist" implies something negative - because the person does not feel good enough inside they do everything they can to help people - with the sole goal in mind (probably unconsiously) to make people like them - in other words it is a form of unconscious manipulation - a form of self seeking as a result of a lack of self-esteem. (I believe the root problem lies in Fear - fear of not being good enough, fear of not being lovable etc. etc. and through prayer I believe this can be healed)
To do good deeds - or really just to try to lead a life based on being helpful to others whether within the context of a faith or not can be perfectly healthy and I believe not contribute in any way to TMS pain. This is when it is done from a healthy place with no essence of martyrdom.
The challenge is to find the balance. I am really focusing on checking my motives before I do something - I tend to take on too much and so I have cut back my work load. I have also stopped volunteering to work at weekends for my boss's family - so this is all progress for me and consequently my pain in my hip/back has totally gone away. I do have TMS equivalents and I know there is more work to be done but it is a start.
|
|
|
|
Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 10:30:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Suz
My dilemma lies in the fact that I do not want to be so self involved - it is part of my faith to focus on being of service to others with the best intentions - on a good day - I get out of myself and am able to do that - so being so self focused does not tie in with this - sort of a conflict.
I think you bring up a very interesting subject and what has struck me as a conflict between doing the anti-TMS work and Christianity (to take the religion with which I am most familiar). Exploring the unconscious, with its dark, aggressive, hate-filled emotions, SEEMS contradictory to what we have been told we should be (the Church has never been very friendly toward Freud). Giving vent to our hatred of our boss, our spouse, our neighbors seems, on the face of it, very un-Christian. Conversely, being a goodist seems very Christian--Mother Teresa appeared the ultimate goodist. But I remain so convinced of the accuracy of the TMS approach to pain that I think it is worth it to try to reconcile these apparent opposites. Recognizing that I hate my boss might be the starting point for dealing with my pain, but it doesn't mean I have to do something about it (hitting a pillow with a bat rather than his head--which would be frowned on in both religious and secular circles). And I think there is neurotic goodism vs. authentic goodism; recognizing the difference can be a help in overcoming TMS.
But having said all that, I think there remain some significant issues between faith and the anti-TMS work. My mother is very religious and will never admit hating anybody, and I see her TMS symptoms all the time; she would never acknowledge the dark side of her psyche--which for me is essential if we are to understand ourselves. |
|
|
|
Connie
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 10:41:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Suz
I wondered if anyone of you has included prayer as part of your emotional homework.
This group has brought to the forefront my thinking about what's attributable to God and what's the result of one's own efforts to use human potential in healing. Interestingly, I'm finding the same advice in TMS literature as I heard in faith healing churches when I attended a few years ago: to talk and act like you're healed even when symptoms are still present. Of course, they said it was an answer to prayer when someone then became well, but now I'm reading the same kinds of results here without the religious trappings--and find myself asking, What's going on?
My tentative personal conclusions are that humans have tremendous built-in potentials that few have realized. Just like the sun and rain benefit everyone, regardless of their convictions, so the power of the mind to heal is available to everyone, praying person or not. I think many praying persons tend to hope and wait for something "miraculous" to magically happen to cure them, when what they need to do is take action themselves. That said, I do still believe in a power called "God" that is greater than myself and able to guide and help me. Just how it all fits together, I don't know right now.
>...may want to go into some sort of one on one therapy ... I would have to find someone who has a faith.<
Suz, I understand your feelings on this because I used to think the same way, but ended up with a therapist two years ago who doesn't believe in God, and I've never felt emotionally safer and more accepted anywhere. True, the difference in our beliefs is an obstacle sometimes but it's minor in comparison to the healing of being accepted without judgment. He's a caring, loving person, and that meets a basic human need all of us have. I doubt anyone can fully heal without knowing unconditional love (which many of us lacked in growing up) because it may take that kind of experience to feel safe enough to allow the health-robbing emotions to surface. He also believes in the mindbody connection. I wouldn't have chosen him according to my criteria for a one-on-one therapist, but he's turned out to be near perfect for me despite some rough spots we've been through--but I understand conflicts happen in practically any relationship, and they've only served to convince me of his commitment to me.
I think a person can know the "right" therapist for them more by feelings--which is what we're after anyway--than a list of "must-have's." I felt understood, liked, and a profound peace that even affected me physically after meeting with the one I have now. I just want to encourage you that if you don't find a therapist like you're looking for, you may find a good one where you're not expecting it. If necessary, I hope you can give any opportunity a chance. |
|
|
|
Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 11:01:19
|
Jim,
I liked the way you phrased it as "neurotic goodism vs authentic goodism" - that was exactly my point.
As a practising Christian, my initial reaction to the TMS work was not favourable although I totally believe in John Sarno's diagnosis. I do not like the thought of dwelling on all this anger etc from my past/present as it is very self-involved.
You wrote:
Giving vent to our hatred of our boss, our spouse, our neighbors seems, on the face of it, very un-Christian. Conversely, being a goodist seems very Christian--.
I think it is perfectly healthy to acknowledge anger in the form of hatred etc. but it is what you do with it. After all, my faith reminds me that I am human being who is going to experiences all sorts of ugly emotions. I can be jealous, angry (I can identify with fury towards my boss! or rather his wife!!) self seeking etc.etc.
In order to do the TMS work, I don't think it is necessary to sit in the negativity. What I do is recognize them when they crop up, do not spend time on berating myself as that just feeds into my perfectionism - I make sure I feel the emotion and then I move on - asking God to help me with the emotion. When it comes to resentment/anger, I always look for my part - somewhere in my anger, there is probably fear on my side - again I recognize it, maybe tie it in with something that happened to me long ago and then I move on. It is sort of a therapy exercise on the go! It allows me to live a much more peaceful life, while still doing the work.
You mentioned that your Mum does not like to look at her dark side - Maybe it is frightening for her - I think it is just being human. We are reminded frequently in many religious books - eg. the bible - that we are fallible as human beings - having ugly emotions is part of us.
|
|
|
|
Connie
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 11:25:44
|
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jim D
...a conflict between doing the anti-TMS work and Christianity ... But I remain so convinced of the accuracy of the TMS approach to pain that I think it is worth it to try to reconcile these apparent opposites.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you, Jim. I think that the very fact that anti-TMS work makes such a difference points to the truth behind it. Some of what's called "Christianity" has often produced people who are rigid and controlled emotionally as well as physically, rather than warm, loving human beings. Emotions are part of who we are, and if one believes in a creator God, I see no reason why their acceptance wouldn't be in harmony with Christianity. Seems like it's all part of being honest with ourselves and each other, which is a Christian virtue. |
|
|
|
Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 11:53:09
|
Carolyn,
I believe that anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" and behaves in a cold, emotionless manner is not practicing Christianity at all. Unfortunately, I know what you mean - I have come across this. It is such a shame. There is nothing worse than someone preaching the Word and not practicing it. We can call ourselves anything and not act accordingly. The whole point of Christ's teachings is to be loving, warm and importantly show affection and emotion - that's what makes the world a better place, I believe. To be rigid is to be inhuman.
Suz |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 16:36:10
|
| In regard to religious faith healers, it's my understanding that those who are "miraculously" healed have been carefully screened ahead of time by the staff of the healer. These people have TMS and the screeners know how to screen out those that are truly incurable from those that have illness ameneable to faith healing. Since according to Sarno, 80% of what ails us is TMS, the odds are excellent for a cure. |
|
|
|
JoeW
United Kingdom
61 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2004 : 19:27:56
|
Interesting point TT - when I first came across Sarno, and read of people literally getting out of their wheelchairs and walking, the parrallels with religious miracles were clear.
But surely Sarno himself is a faith healer of sorts ? He also screens ahead, and the cure only works if we believe, if we have faith, in his explanations. |
|
|
|
kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 08:41:58
|
[i]We can go deep with this subject and I will keep it simple, only relating to the journaling and healing side of TMS. A miracle and miraculous healing is what we are all looking for. We cannot deny it takes place, nor can the medical community explain when it happens. May I say many are going way off to the wayside of what divine healing and authentic prayer is. Nothing is outside of Gods control and we must not limit his power, nor try to contain his existence and deity, putting him in a box. For the benefit of TMS recovery I will stick to Journaling in reference to prayer. I have spoken in the past how it came to a point after reading MBP, that I realized psychotherapy along with journaling would only bring me to the next level of healing. It was at that point I started to journal my life history. [I used journaling as a vehicle to discover and uncover many things that were unresolved in my life.
But it was actually prayer that let me release and let go of these things that were holding me prisoner, such as anger and pain. This I spoke as “cleaning out my closet” and “making peace with my past”. During this time is when I made the SPIRITUAL connection to the MIND and BODY connection. But it was not until I got “real” in my journaling process and got in touch with my inner pain and emotions, that ultimately released me from my bondage. May I call it “real repentance”?
Too many people use prayer as a one way conversation, asking but not listening. God will not be mocked he is not a glorified Santa Claus looking to fulfill our want list. Nor is he a benevolent grandpa looking to give gifts of healing without a continued change of heart. He wants a relationship with us, not a religion.
If you have a close friend who has wronged you and he just says to you he is sorry, but is not sincere, does that bring “real healing”? Just by mouthing the words will not bring healing and restoration to the relationship. It is a real confession and change of heart that brings true healing.This is the same with God, he longs for an intimate relationship with us, and this is what will fill this void and emptiness in each one of us. Do we really know him on a personal level? Is he capable of healing us? It is my responsibility to seek him out. Is your God bigger than TMS and your pain? He can heal and will heal us physically and spiritually, and oftentimes uses sickness and pain to bring us to a closer dependence upon him. First we must let go of our own agenda and let him be in control of his universe. Sometimes when we are brought to our knees from pain and sickness, this is when we start to seek, ask, listen. And then what is our response?
Always Hope For Recovery
|
|
|
|
austingary
USA
95 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 09:13:34
|
Nothing is outside of Gods control
Then, why does he make your back hurt? Oh, never mind, I can understand how he might get a kick out of that. Better to ask, why does he give little kids AIDS and cancer? Could it be that the god in your pantheon of supernatural spacemen in bathrobes who is really in charge is the one with the pointy tail? |
|
|
|
Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 09:44:01
|
Kenny,
I absolutely loved your email. I am struggling with the idea of combining my TMS work with my faith. I know that God can heal all in me but it takes me doing the footwork. I called my church and I am starting work with a counsellor. How have you combined your journal work with your faith? Did you go to a TMS therapist - I am very hesitant and so decided to go to my church. Hopefully, the counsellor is ok.
Suz |
|
|
|
kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2004 : 10:40:06
|
Of course doubting Gary is the first one to comment. I will only say (NC) &(NM) and leave it at that.Suz,
I have made many posts in the past referring to journaling and the TMS healing process, but have chosen not to continue to mention the spiritual application of this because of the sense of how it was taken on this board. Most of what this forum expands and focuses on is what is only mentioned in Doctor Sarno’s books. So I have chosen to speak with people personally on the phone and via e-mail.
I will do so with you, not to get deep into the spiritual application of the mind body connection on this forum.
Always Hope For Recovery
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Combining Faith with TMS work
