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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2008 : 15:25:49
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OKay, I am a long time Sarno Believer and have cured my back pain in the past.
I also had dizziness for a few years and was diagnosed with Meniere's disease after a butt-load of tests, but that is mostly under pretty good control with occasional flare ups. (I do have to watch my diet, especially with salt) For the last year or two I have had horrible neck pain, only on one side about 3 inches below my right ear with painful pressure point. (This is the same side that I have the most problems with my inner ear problem - Menieres) I know the Sarno concepts and have been just yelling at my brain constantly and trying to address any anger issues, but to no avail. Finally went to a chiro a few weeks ago, and he told me it was my job, working a high stress job in front a computer all day.
He said chiro probably could not help much.. I was shocked he did not try to chain me to his table twice a week for treatments. He seemed very honest. He said get ergonomically correct while working that it could be caused by posture.
I keep wanting to believe it is TMS but after a year of this pain and it causing migraines at night and other symptoms, I am just back here looking for support. I supposed you will all say it is just my TMS flaring up in a different spot, and I know that but then I also keep thinking in the back of my mind that it could be some injury or structural issue as I sleep on two pillows ( for other symptom relief related to Meniere's) at night kinking my neck in odd positions. So I would like to hear from some people having success with treating neck pain with Sarno principles..
I also ordered Dr. Brady's book. I think it is the only book I have not read yet on TMS..
Thanks for any support here.
Elise
Elise8 |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 18:06:15
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| Forgive my bluntness, but it sounds to me like youve never gotten past Sarno 101. Saying you're a "long time Sarno Believer" and then reciting a list of classic psychosomatic problems that you are accepting as organic or physical is like calling yourself a pacifist while stockpiling weapons. I'd never heard of 'meniere's' and im no doctor, but it sounds completely equivalent to every other psychosomatic issue that Sarno and others have tried so hard to expose. Tinnitus and Vertigo are common TMS symptoms, certainly you know that if you've read the books. As are alimentary/digestive issues. If you believe you are 'controlling' it with diet (PLACEBO!) then you are playing right into the TMS trap, and it doesnt surprise me in the least that you developed neck pain, it is classic "symptom imperative". In fact, i have neck pain right now, which is what prompted me to read your post. It is just another stress/tension/anxiety symptom rearing its ugly head because ive dismissed all the other symptoms (which included psoriasis and sinus congestion this past year). I'll bet you one million dollars my neck pain will be gone very shortly, ive dealt with it before and this time around is no different. The bottom line for you is that you have not accepted the TMS/psychosomatic diagnosis. If you had, you never would have gone to a chirporactor, which just reinforced your doubt. You have to stop "wanting" to believe, and just believe! Once it has sunk in at a subconcious level that you no longer accept the nonsensical physical diagnosis, you will regain control. the cycle of anxiety will cease, and you'll improve. Until then, it's a lost cause. If it were me (and i am not recommending you follow my personal choice of action, just telling you what I personally would do), I would go out and get some incredibly salty french fries and down them with some beer. |
Edited by - stanfr on 04/19/2008 18:09:31 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 20:12:46
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You cannot say you are a "Sarno Believer" yet still go to a chiropractor for treatments. This is a total contradiction.
It's clear you want to believe, but that is not enough. If you cannot repudiate the structural diagnosis and cease physical treatments, then you have not passed step 1. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 21:37:37
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quote:
working a high stress job in front a computer all day
In front of a computer all day is a complete red herring. And I say this as someone who was once in agony after being at a keyboard for two minutes. I compute all day and at home, in all kinds of crazy positions. Nothing happens pain-wise anymore, since finding Sarno.
Forget the computer. It's the HIGH STRESS JOB, full stop...
"Pressure point" sounds like a trigger point, which is a particular physical (muscular) manifestation of tension and oxygen deprivation, AKA TMS.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2008 : 22:05:17
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Hi Elise,
I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've been experiencing. I've had a couple of similar symptoms, so maybe it would be useful to you if I tell you about my experience.
I used to have such bad dizziness/vertigo that I was checked for Meniere's, but I can't remember just what they're looking for to diagnose that. I know I had an MRI done and some test where I looked at flashing lights while they poured water into my ear--in the end the ENT could not find anything wrong and the neurologist decided I must have an "overactive inner ear" (if that makes any sense) and prescribed Valium to calm it down. The Valium helped me sleep better for a while, but didn't do a thing to improve the dizziness/vertigo symptoms. They went away when I learned about TMS and read The Divided Mind. Occasionally I get a little bit of vertigo, when I'm stressed, but nothing anywhere near like what I had before.
I was also having frequent pain in my neck and shoulders that was so bad that often I just couldn't turn my head at all and some of the time I couldn't lift my arm above my shoulder, on one side of my body. That would actually come and go, but was really debilitating when it was present, which was fairly often. After I learned about TMS it suddenly hit the other side of my body and I knew for sure it had to be TMS, so I told my unconscious mind "No you don't," and got rid of it. Hasn't occurred since.
It does sound like the neck problem, at least, is likely to be TMS. Have you ever done any journaling? Did you get an "instant" cure for your back pain when you read the book in the past or did it take some time for you to get rid of the pain? It seems that some people who had good results very quickly the first time have ended up with some new problem down the road that is more stubborn.
I think you'll find Dr. Brady's book useful. I appreciated his explanations of the personality traits that often play a role in TMS. Let us know how things go for you.
Corey |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2008 : 10:58:01
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Interesting that your CHIRO told you it's stress related.
Do you accept that all of your symptoms (migraines, etc.) could be emotionally-caused? Or are you still stuck with physical causes? That will keep you from getting relief.
I suggest checking Louise Hay's books for emotional correlations from dizziness and neck pain. See if her suggestions can work for you.
What exactly are you hoping to hear from someone who has had neck pain (as you requested in your post)? Most of us have had it at one time or another. And it was indeed TMS.
And, of course, (I know forum readers have been waiting for my post to say it) GET WRITING about your issues and concerns!
Best wishes for your healing,
Lori |
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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2008 : 13:56:39
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I guess I just wanted confirmation that the neck pain was TMS.
When I underwent testing for Meniere's (an inner/middle ear disorder) I was hoping that they would say, nothing wrong with your ears, but after testing twice with the "water in the ear thing" etc. (,called an caloric/ENG test), confirming sensory loss, and hearing tests comfirming hearing loss, two ENTs made the diagnosis based on the tests and the symptoms.
I believe even Claire Weeks in one of her books said to be sure to have your ears check if you have vertigo, ear pressure and tinnitis to rule out any underlying ear disorder. With Meniere's you cannot have high levels of salt as it causes fluid build up in the ear which triggers the vertigo and other symptoms. I have learned to live with this without medication and by just watching my diet. Salt definitely has an effect. My blood pressure and health is much better off without it anyways.
But the neck pain, I agree is TMS, and is probably not triggered by my postural positions in front of the computer but rather my reaction to STRESS in front of the computer. The chiro was telling me it was postural or ergonomics. I guess I just needed to hear it again. I am glad this forum is here for support, blunt or otherwise.
Thank you all for your comments. I will WORK harder on TMS principles. I guess I have gotten a bit lazy about applying the knowlege. It is not just believing, you have to do the mental/written exercises too.
Elise8 |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2008 : 18:40:33
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Elise, i have not doubt that you have 'meniere's' but also have little doubt that it is another manifestation of TMS. When you said that "salt contributes to fluid" my first reaction was "huh????" so i did a quick search of the online sources, number 1 being the "Meniere's page". Here is what they say about the low sodium diet:
"There is no doubt that restriction of dietary salt does help large numbers of Meniere's patients. However, this is a good example of a treatment which does not yet have a solid scientific explanation for how it works."
Exactly!! That is why i strongly caution you to take everything you hear from MDs with a large grain of salt (pun intended). I dont pretend to know more than the doctors, but i am very familiar with the various excuses they make up in an attempt to explain what for them is unexplainable, because they are unfamiliar with mind-body, it wasnt taught in Med School.
When I was diagnosed with carpal and ulnar nerve entrapment years ago, concurrent with sciatica, i was shown nerve conduction tests that verified without a doubt that there was nerve "slowing". They of course wanted surgery. I realized it was all TMS and cured the problem, permanently. Point being, TMS/psychosomaticism does in fact cause real physical results, testable results! But ask your ENTs what caused your meniere's. They won't have a good explanation. But a number of us on this forum have a good one--it's a TMS equivalent! When i asked my ENT whether my deviated septum might not be the cause of sinus congestion/colds, he was able to point to the MRI and show me that my right septum was virtually closing off the right side. So, i had surgery, and only after the fact (when the congestion continued despite the correction) that i realized that the septum was just another red herring. You might have success dealing with your neck pain apart from the other issues, but i have a hunch you are going to have difficulty dealing with it until you realize how TMS is affecting the rest of your health. If you didnt have some suspicion that your meniere's symptoms weren't related in some way, i doubt you would have mentioned it in your post.
IMO, from years of experience dealing with this disorder, belief is actually more important than writing/work. Something to consider. |
Edited by - stanfr on 04/20/2008 18:49:07 |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2008 : 07:06:19
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Acceptance and belief the condition is NOT structural is absolutely the first step. It is a big step to accept and internalize that your emotions are causing your physical ailment.
In order for symptoms not to move from place to place though, I believe it is necessary to process via journaling or therapy -- whatever method you choose. I personally don't want a new symptom, which will happen when the root cause is still there. I want to process the cause of the physical symptom (emotional) and do as much writing as is needed until I feel rid of it, or at least at peace with whatever it is. In this way I take my power back.
So I am an advocate of journaling or therapy. I believe it's what has rid me of TMS and its equivalents. Accepting the emotional aspect alone may work for some; I chose to take it farther.
-Lori |
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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 13:52:59
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Okay, I really do appreciate all the advice and comments.
I bought the book "Pain Free For Life" and and finding it extremely useful.
I could identify with the author, Dr. Brady in that I am a people pleaser, perfectionist type as he is. My neck pain has already dimminished by 80% just after reading half the book and doing a lot of "self talk" and I am sure it will be 100% relieved soon. Just reading the book from yet a different point of view, AOS instead of TMS makes perfect sense to me. I am not put off by his spiritural slant as I am a Christian. In fact, I find it very refreshing. He melds science and spirituality together that resonates with me. I will start journaling tonight and hopefully this will help my TMS- related Meniere's associated symptoms to improve.
By the way, someone posted that I should ask my doctor what causes Meniere's. My ENT (actually an neuro-otologist) told me that Meniere's is caused by the varicella virus (aka chicken pox virus) that has attacked the inner ear. I believe that is just one of the theories out there, but he was adamant about it and no doubt has studied the scientific literature since he specializes in treating people with Meniere's. The reason he says that low sodium diets help is that salt tends to make the body retain fluid and with Meniere's there is a defect in the endolymphatic sac in the ear which cannot regulate sodium ions in a normal fashion hence you get the build up of fluid in the inner ear causing vertigo, pressure, etc. Sometimes the fluid feeling is so obvoius in my right ear, that it feels like a water balloon is inside my head.. Meniere's is sometimes called endolymphatic hydrops...
But whatever, regardless of the diagnosis, there are a lot of associated symptoms with Meniere's that are TMS equivolants, so I am going to work hard, start journaling, and get relief!!
I am so like Dr. Brady in many ways with similar personalities and he also suffered from IBS and off and on headaches, which are other symptoms I have, totally related to stress....totally TMS, AOS..
I will keep you all posted as to my progress...
(I have a lot of resentment that I have to continue to work in my stressful job that I really don't like, but need the money it pays right now to support my family. I am positive this anger is a direct cause of many of my symptoms)...
I am sure glad this site is here for guidance!! Even though sometimes the truth is hard to accept..thanks again all.
Elise
Elise8 |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 14:21:49
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Meniere's disease is a clinical diagnosis, as is TMS. Many of the symptoms do indeed overlap (tinnitus, vertigo, etc.). Dr. Sarno has never said explicitly (to my knowledge) that MD is TMS. That being said, I suppose MD may not even exist. Given it's highly variable prognosis, I'm even more inclined to believe that emotional factors are probably involved. I think without significant sensorineural hearing loss (which should be present in MD), I would just treat it as TMS (especially if you have had other psychosomatic disorders in the past). It's not like there is a cure for MD anyway. Of course, there is no harm in cutting down on your salt intake either.
Best,
MK |
Edited by - mk6283 on 05/03/2008 14:25:43 |
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 15:52:29
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Elise, sounds like your on the right track and im sure youll be successful.
MK, true there is no harm in cutting down your sodium intake for general health, the problem arises when you are doing so specifically to address what you see as a physical problem with a physical solution. To give you an exact analogy, spicy foods and alchohol are supposed to aggravate hemorrhoids. There's a plausible explanation for sure--alchohol does influence blood flow! But a plausible explanation isnt always the best one--I can now eat roasted jalapenos and drink myself unconcious without any fear of a negative reaction because i finally truly accepted the mind-body connection and disowned the pure physical BS. I dont think it's any different with meniere's--it sounds like pure conditioning to me. Common sense suggests to me that, assuming your kidneys are functioning, eating a 1000 mg diet rather than a 2000 mg diet wont make one iota of difference to your physical system. |
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mk6283
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2008 : 17:08:37
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Stanfr, you are probably right. If it was me I'd probably eat a 5g Na diet just to challenge my mind! I'm just trying to stay politically correct. However, I do agree with you. Thinking psychologically is definitely the best approach.
Best,
MK |
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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 15:08:02
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Salt has been scientifically proven to cause high blood pressure and lead to many diseases. Added salt as in table salt, celtic salt, sea salt, etc. is poison to the body. After all the food industry does use salt for preservatives and that is exactly what it is doing to your arteries, pickling them..
Since I have reduced my added salt intake to 500 mg per day my blood pressure at age 55 is that of a teenager..
Here is a link to Dr. Joel Fuhrman's advice on salt. Dr. Joel Fuhrman is the author of several books on nutrition and is a board certified family practice physician.
www . drfuhrman . com/faq/question.aspx?sid=16&qindex=1
Elise
Elise8 |
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NECK PAIN
