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Jeremy
USA
27 Posts |
 Posted - 02/27/2008 : 10:30:45
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I would love to hear from people who have experience with TMS symptoms stemming (seemingly) from *conscious* triggers in their lives. I've read-- and been involved with-- discussions here that note that Sarno's "distraction" theory is just one "interpretation" of what's going on with TMS, but I haven't seen a lot of direct discussion of things such as Dr. Leonard-Segal mentions in her very resonant (to me) pages in TDM (pp. 245-270; in particular, pp. 265-268); for instance, she writes:
"Patients with these emotionally induced physical symptoms are often in the throes of decision making. They may find themselves in the uncomfortable place of someone who is uncertain of her best choice to make. The issues holding them back generally have to do with concerns about disappointing someone, or setting standards too high for themselves."
And: "Often, it is difficult for the patient to see his or her way out of a difficult situation."
And: "It is important to recognize that TMS is a symptom of life not going well and out-of-control circumstances and emotions."
These observations seem to speak directly to the idea that TMS symptoms are not inescapably a distraction from unacknowledged, unconscious emotional pain (whether rage or sadness). There are some of us who *know* we're in a very difficult place, have felt stuck here for a long, long time, and now experience physical symptoms as an extra sort of red flag to figure something out already rather than as a distraction from unrecognized pain.
I know that not everyone here feels the distraction theory fits perfectly with their experience. I have not seen, however, a lot of discussion about working with the pain/symptoms under those conditions. I'd love to be pointed to such discussions if they've already happened long before I got here (just a few weeks ago).
By the way, I fully acknowledge that the difficulties of one's life circumstances may at some level be masking unrecognized emotional pain, and I have focused a lot of my journaling on exploring what may in fact be below my surface awareness. I understand, further, that Dr. Sarno makes it clear that one does not have to *solve* one's underlying emotional challenges to free oneself of physical symptoms. I am trying to figure out how to put this all together in the case of someone (me) who a) fully accepts the idea that my physical symptoms are psychogenic; that there is nothing structurally wrong with me; b) believes, as per Dr. Leonard-Segal, that my TMS symptoms are very much connected to life circumstances; and c) likewise accepts that these circumstances may be an outgrowth of unconscious emotional pain.
Any perspective from anyone who can relate to these issues would be greatly appreciated. Links to previous discussions on the matter are great too, if this has already be overdiscussed in the past. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2008 : 12:25:17
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You can see my thread "Science or Sarno" from yesterday for a discussion of this.
At the time my symptoms hit, and they hit all at once, back pain, panic, insomnia, etc., I was struggling with a job I hated but couldn't leave because my wife was not working at the time, and nothing I saw looked appealing in the job market, boredom at home, although I love my kids, I don't love being with them constantly without any time for myself, feeling of being TRAPPED, like I had no control any more over any aspect of my life. Then my body felt like it betrayed me, so now I had additional stress, not a distraction from it. That was one of the many problems I had with with Dr. Sarno.
It is possible to analyze this to death, as I did for a very long time. That personality trait is part of the problem. But once I read Dr. Brady's book, all the explanations came together for what was happening, and I decided I didn't have to follow the letter of the law in Sarno's books in order to achieve my goals. It must be maddening to read two separate explanations for the same diagnosis in the same book, but that is the nature of the beast. |
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mizlorinj
USA
490 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 09:15:06
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Jeremy, I get pain from conscious stuff. There are things that happen occasionally where I will get a slight (or bad) headache and I can usually figure out why. I have talked myself out of those headaches too so it is positively TMS equiv.
My recovery from horrible back pain did have some unconscious triggers I'm sure too; as I wrote about some things from my "list" more things came back to me--which was really cool to witness. There are times things buried deep will come to the conscious level. Dr. Sarno knows this as he's seen it. BUT it does not happen with everyone every time.
After my recovery I had a major change at work and did get some butt pain back! But I knew that it had to be related to this unexpected change, did journal work IMMEDIATELY about how I felt about things, and the pain left and did not return.
I recently recalled how when I didn't want to tell my parents something as a teen, I would get a stomach ache! No one could figure out why I had occasional stomach aches. Well, I certainly know now!
How it can be a distraction is you know you need to take action (in your personal life of whatever) but you are not ready or don't want to for whatever reason. Pain comes up which is your brain distracting you--you then concentrate on the physical pain and not the core issue at hand (postpone taking action you need to, etc.) Really, it does make sense. Example: my S.O. was avoiding telling his mother he wasn't coming there for Thanksgiving. he lifted weights on Tuesday; Wednesday morning had pain in his shoulder he attributed to lifting the weights. I said, well if that's the case (strained muscle?) it'll be gone in a couple days. But I asked (as I was suspicious it was NOT weight-related) "did you call your mom yet?" He had not. Later in the day Wednesday I asked how his shoulder was. The pain went away right after he called his mother! So the brain created pain to distract him from something he knew he wanted and needed to do!
I have seen this distraction (or whatever one wants to call it) in action and therefore I do believe it stems from both unconscious and conscious emotions. Some (conscious) we can easily write or talk about and be rid of, or at least at peace with, and sometimes more will come to us that are buried deep down. Sometimes it won't. We do the best we can!
-L
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Jeremy
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2008 : 09:47:18
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Lori-
Your input is much appreciated. What has aggravated me about the distraction theory at my end is that not only has it been very clear what has been at the heart of my personal angst, shall we say, but I do not seem to need any pain to distract me-- I've been stuck and pretty much incapable of movement on the matter for a long time prior to the pain. All the while very aware of-- and introspective about, via journaling, therapy, etc -- what the conscious issues are. The pain seems to be the icing on the cake.
That said, I do imagine that it will in fact go away if I ever get myself to a place of movement. I'll admit there have been years where I've been resigned to nothing happening for me in a positive way. It's almost like the pain has come when I have finally gotten a bit closer to believing positive movement is in fact possible. And now the pain is my constant reminder: Keep at it. You can do it. Etc.
j |
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Capn Spanky
112 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2008 : 14:56:09
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Jeremy,
Those quotes from Dr. Segal very much speak to me. Thanks for sharing!
I react much harder to change than I ever realized. Even good change (like a new job or even a new dog)  have caused TMS symptoms in me.
I'm going buy The Divided Mind. I've got the audio book on CD and really like it, but it's not complete. I'm thinking TDM might turn out to be my personal favorite of all his books. YMMV!  |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2008 : 17:56:00
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quote:
I would love to hear from people who have experience with TMS symptoms stemming (seemingly) from *conscious* triggers in their lives.
Another thing to keep in mind is that just because the trigger is conscious doesn't mean the emotion is. The emotion that you're trying to avoid may still be buried. You may be aware, for example, that you're stressed out about a decision, but not aware of how angry you are at having to make that decision, or being put in that situation, or whatnot.
For you, though, Jeremy, I already gave you my opinion. You've done the work but haven't yet moved on your insights about your situation. I think you may unstuck in a very real way, by taking action, before you see symptoms change. Sarno, by the way, does say that this is sometimes necessary.
quote:
I've been stuck and pretty much incapable of movement on the matter for a long time prior to the pain.
And now your inner child is not only tired of this situaion and hates it, but is completely fed up and enraged that not only are you in this situation, but you KNOW you're in it, and you still haven't made any changes!
This is hard stuff to face but honestly there are some situations that cannot be fixed. You need to figure out if yours is one of them.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2008 : 01:05:15
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It can be very frustrating to know what you feel but be unable to take external action to change things. There are situations where you literally can't - I have been through several years of some very complex, very traumatic situations that were not in my control (due to betrayals, divorce, etc.).
When I can't find a way to move, externally, I try to move the stuck energy internally as much as possible. For me this involves breathing into the feelings, whatever they are, changing any limiting beliefs, and turning the whole situation over, as much as I can, to a higher organizing level of consciousness, aka God.
In a way, if I do these inner "actions," I feel I am taking the action I need to take. Then sometimes an outer pathway will appear that allows me to move on the outer as well.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. This is quite a brilliant thought.
x
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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Jeremy
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2008 : 20:05:04
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Another thing to keep in mind is that just because the trigger is conscious doesn't mean the emotion is. The emotion that you're trying to avoid may still be buried. You may be aware, for example, that you're stressed out about a decision, but not aware of how angry you are at having to make that decision, or being put in that situation, or whatnot.
I'm hearing you loud and clear on this. That's a lot of what I'm doing my best to explore right now--emotions that may be buried, that I've been unconsciously avoiding.
quote:
For you, though, Jeremy, I already gave you my opinion. You've done the work but haven't yet moved on your insights about your situation. I think you may unstuck in a very real way, by taking action, before you see symptoms change. Sarno, by the way, does say that this is sometimes necessary.
Yes, I seem to remember his noting this at some point or another in the books I've read. And I do sense this is ultimately what I must face: action first. That's a lot to do with why, I believe, the symptoms have arrived. To force my hand, as it were.
quote:
quote:
I've been stuck and pretty much incapable of movement on the matter for a long time prior to the pain.
And now your inner child is not only tired of this situaion and hates it, but is completely fed up and enraged that not only are you in this situation, but you KNOW you're in it, and you still haven't made any changes!
This is hard stuff to face but honestly there are some situations that cannot be fixed. You need to figure out if yours is one of them.
When I am honest with myself I know full well it cannot be fixed. It's up to me to make the change, to stand up for my own needs, but that's exactly what I've never done very well-- and no doubt exactly why I've found myself in this situation that, yes, has been slowly and steadily enraging my inner child. But little have I realized it, since anger has never been what I "do."
So between my seeming inability to act in my own self interest (isn't this really selfish, I ask myself?) and some long-ago programming that seems to have assured me that there outside of out-and-out abuse, there's no good reason to break up a marriage, here I sit. And it figures, doesn't it, that my physical pain and discomfort is pretty much exactly there: in where I sit. :)
Which brings me to Wavy Soul's point: I know that in theory I *can* change this but there's some part of me that doesn't think I'm entitled to, basically.
And yes: more rage for the inner child!
Thanks yet again for the thoughtful input, one and all.
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 14:54:01
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I really relate to this thread .. so much so that I have finally decided to stop lurking and start posting! I am new at this .. I started reading The Divided Mind, November 7th, 2007 and did VERY well at first ... I achieved my first goal of getting off daily (headache) meds and was able to abort many, many headaches, so I know I am on the right track... but I had a big setback a number of weeks ago (mainly unabortable headaches 8 days in a row!) I did manage to calm things down, so I am still fairly confident in this approach, but I have a # of other health issues I am not sure about. I think they are probably TMS-related, but I'm just not sure.
Anyway, I am in a confused state at present, as I have lots of very conscious rage and unhappy emotions about many things and I am not able to extricate myself from some of those things that are enraging in my life. However, Dr Sarno also says of course, that if it required changing one's personality or stopping generating anxiety and anger, then his "cure rate would be zero."
I don't know if the "distraction" theory makes sense to me or not, but I don't know that it matters, because what I'm doing has had amazingly good (for me) results so far.
Now to my main point, after that long preamble! -- I do wonder whether it all has a lot more to do with the "Rage Soothe" ratio that Dr Sarno talked about in the Mindbody Prescription. There was just a short section about that, but that part really spoke to me, as I know I have a tremendous reservoir of rage compared to any "reservoir of soothing." So sometimes I think I need to work more on upping my Soothing Reservoir rather than focusing on (journalling about) or trying to practically resolve my current sources of rage. I also have much past rage, and that seems even less "resolvable" than the current sources! Hence, I wonder whether I need to focus more on the "soothing." |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2008 : 15:24:12
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Jeremy,
I think my situation may have some similarities with yours, so I'll pass along what I've figured out so far.
Prior to learning about Dr. Sarno and his TMS theory, I always viewed my physical symptoms as red flags that I was in a situation that wasn't *right* for me.
In my 20's it usually applied to jobs--if I got IBS symptoms and headaches, I'd know the job stress was too much for me and I'd quit. After a divorce that I really didn't want, I got symptoms of so-called Fibro/CFS (at the time I thought they were related to both the depression I was going through and chemical exposures from living in a newly remodeled apartment), but when I decided I needed to take action to move on with my life the symptoms went away.
In moving on with my life, I met my present husband, a really good guy whose childhood and early adult life had been at least as dysfunctional as mine. (That was one of my criteria in men I'd date--they had to have a dysfunctional background so they wouldn't be scared off by my own dysfunctional background and family.) After a year and a half together, I knew his emotional needs were in conflict with mine, but we got married anyway. After not quite two years of marriage, my CFS/Fibro symptoms, the IBS, and the headaches returned and stayed, plus I developed a lot of other unexplained symptoms.
I know exactly what events triggered the return of the symptoms and every time I got a new symptom, I could tie it to some particular stress that had been added to my situation. I’ve always recognized certain obvious emotions that are involved, particularly anger, resentment and a sense of being emotionally abandoned. When I first learned of TMS, about 19 months ago, I did suddenly get rid of a number of severe symptoms, simply by accepting that it’s ok for me to feel those obvious emotions, that they don’t make me a bad person, but I still have a number of symptoms that seriously limit what I can do.
At times I've been encouraged by friends, family and mental health professionals to leave this marriage, but I believe I would lose more than I would gain by doing so, even though the stress caused by our conflicting emotional needs continues to be overwhelming. And I don’t believe that leaving would be all that’s needed to eliminate the physical symptoms. I believe that what I need to do is learn to stop being willing to always set my own true needs and emotions aside in order to maintain *peace and stability* in relationships and to *earn* love.
I think the ideal situation for me would be if I could get my husband to really examine how we were both influenced and affected by our dysfunctional upbringings and how some of the methods we’ve each used in trying to fulfill our emotional needs conflict. Then maybe we could get to a point where we’d both be a lot happier in our relationship. But for now it doesn't seem likely that he'll ever be willing to acknowledge and examine his real emotions, much less reflect on how they've driven his decisions and actions in life. Still, I hope that by gaining more insight into the full spectrum of my emotions, I’ll be able to stop being so affected by my husband’s dysfunctional behavior and expectations, that I’ll be able to extract myself from the emotional dance that goes on in dysfunctional relationships. I’ve learned that setting healthy boundaries isn’t about changing the other person’s behavior, it’s about changing how I choose to engage or not engage with their behavior.
This is not to say that you should or shouldn’t leave your relationship. I don’t consider it my place to give any opinion on that. The reason I’m telling you about my situation is only to show that *change* may need to come from within us first. Regardless of whether our physical symptoms are serving to distract us from emotions or are serving to warn us that we need to respect and act on our emotions, the TMS method of analyzing our emotions, both those we’re already conscious of and those we may be repressing, can help us figure out what we may need to change and how to do it. Even though Dr. Sarno says that we don’t need to change our personality, I think that some of us need to find the real self that we’ve buried in our efforts to meet the needs and expectations of others. Finding and acknowledging that real self will help to reduce the rage and anxiety.
I hear in your comments in some of your posts the same self-effacing language that I tend to use, in fear of inconveniencing or upsetting anyone. I think you might find it useful to read some of the other books that are often recommended on this forum, such as Alice Miller’s “The Drama of the Gifted Child” (it’s not about intellectually gifted people, it’s about how our childhood affects our adult life) and John Bradshaw’s “Healing the Shame that Binds You” and “Homecoming: Reclaiming and Championing Your Inner Child.” While I don’t agree with everything the authors say, enough of it fits to be helpful in my efforts to better understand my emotions and to discover some of the repressed feelings I didn’t realize I have.
By the way, the kind of stiffness you’ve mentioned in other threads is one of the symptoms I had that stopped overnight when I read “The Divided Mind.” I don’t think that one type of symptom is really any different than another when it comes to TMS. The *treatment* is the same, no matter what the symptoms.
I wish you all the best, Jeremy. Don’t give up on exploring your emotions and getting to know yourself, your real self.
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Jeremy
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 09:02:42
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I'm taking your words to heart, Littlebird, as much of what you wrote does, as you anticipated, ring true at my end.
quote:
Originally posted by Littlebird
At times I've been encouraged by friends, family and mental health professionals to leave this marriage, but I believe I would lose more than I would gain by doing so, even though the stress caused by our conflicting emotional needs continues to be overwhelming. And I don’t believe that leaving would be all that’s needed to eliminate the physical symptoms. I believe that what I need to do is learn to stop being willing to always set my own true needs and emotions aside in order to maintain *peace and stability* in relationships and to *earn* love.
I understand exactly that: that leaving would not be all that's needed to eliminate the physical symptoms. I too believe that I first and foremost need to stop setting my true needs and emotions aside for the *exact* reasons you state above.
And yet I've been thinking that for a pretty long time. I've come into this long-standing, limbo-like catch-22 situation, in which I know that I must affect that inner shift and yet that shift seems all but impossible to make within my current circumstance. It's become its own sort of trap: me believing I must be able to come to that level of support for myself entirely on my own, when in fact it's been me feeling so entirely on my own for so long that created the defense mechanism of NOT supporting myself. I believe I need also to acknowledge the environmental problems, somehow. The analogy I've been using for myself--although it has yet to provoke action; and I know it's probably full of holes as analogies go--is of a plant that's in the wrong habitat. If a plant requires a rainy habitat it will not survive in the desert; neither will a cactus do well in the rain forest.
But. again, I've been here and not moving and so in the meantime, these words, also hit home:
quote:
But for now it doesn't seem likely that he'll ever be willing to acknowledge and examine his real emotions, much less reflect on how they've driven his decisions and actions in life. Still, I hope that by gaining more insight into the full spectrum of my emotions, I’ll be able to stop being so affected by my husband’s dysfunctional behavior and expectations, that I’ll be able to extract myself from the emotional dance that goes on in dysfunctional relationships. I’ve learned that setting healthy boundaries isn’t about changing the other person’s behavior, it’s about changing how I choose to engage or not engage with their behavior.
I'd love to hear more about how this goes for you, as you continue to make this effort. Feel free to email if it seems a bit too far off topic here.
Thanks also for the book recommendations. A quick visit to Amazon showed me that the Alice Miller book is an immediate must-read, followed by at least one of the Bradshaws.
And I also appreciate your observations about my perhaps excessive self-effacement. Old habits die hard, as we all know!
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2008 : 12:14:41
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quote:
as I know I have a tremendous reservoir of rage compared to any "reservoir of soothing." So sometimes I think I need to work more on upping my Soothing Reservoir rather than focusing on (journalling about) or trying to practically resolve my current sources of rage. I also have much past rage, and that seems even less "resolvable" than the current sources!
I think that increasting the soothe can be a very wise course to take. I have been finding recently that sometimes I'm upset and simply talking to someone can help. This sounds basic, and I was aware of it, but the way it affects my feeling about the situation bothering me is really notable. I get support and soothing, and I feel better.
But remember too that the goal isn't to resolve the rage, but to acknowledge it, and to engage in an ongoing dance with the emotions as they continue to come up. It's to change your experience so that being able to acknowledge rage and other emotions is part of your habit.
Jeremy and Littlebird --
I so relate to what you are saying. I'm not necessarily advocating leaving a situation, but just taking action. In fact, that first action of changing how you react, how you take care of yourself, is what I'm working on right now. It has been a big step for me. The first step was awareness, but I had gotten a bit stuck on that step. I was knowing what I was feeling, but I wasn't acting on it. I wasn't disengaging from dysfunctional situations, I wasn't bringing up things that bothered me. I've been working on it the past few weeks and seen that it is a huge, hard, and scary step. So far it's turned out pretty positively. There's an honesty with myself and the beginnings of that honesty in the relationship that I've never felt before. It's so different I never even knew what I was missing until I felt it.
But for me there is also even one more step, and that's deciding, once I feel like I've gotten closer to where I want to be, whether the situations and relationships I'm in are fulfilling my emotional needs, now that my needs are known to me and respected by me. So the personal change part is the first step, but I do think there's a second step. We'll all get to the steps we need to be at when we're ready, if we keep advancing our respect and caring for ourselves.
--
It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Jeremy
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2008 : 18:02:38
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
Jeremy and Littlebird --
I so relate to what you are saying. I'm not necessarily advocating leaving a situation, but just taking action. In fact, that first action of changing how you react, how you take care of yourself, is what I'm working on right now. It has been a big step for me. The first step was awareness, but I had gotten a bit stuck on that step. I was knowing what I was feeling, but I wasn't acting on it. I wasn't disengaging from dysfunctional situations, I wasn't bringing up things that bothered me. I've been working on it the past few weeks and seen that it is a huge, hard, and scary step. So far it's turned out pretty positively. There's an honesty with myself and the beginnings of that honesty in the relationship that I've never felt before. It's so different I never even knew what I was missing until I felt it.
But for me there is also even one more step, and that's deciding, once I feel like I've gotten closer to where I want to be, whether the situations and relationships I'm in are fulfilling my emotional needs, now that my needs are known to me and respected by me. So the personal change part is the first step, but I do think there's a second step. We'll all get to the steps we need to be at when we're ready, if we keep advancing our respect and caring for ourselves.
I can relate to getting stuck on the step of awareness. Oh boy, can I relate. Because it was a huge deal just to arrive, truly, at some level of awareness of how I'm feeling *when I'm feeling it*. So even to get to that place where, as you say, I know what I'm feeling but I'm not acting on it-- that was a big step.
So hurray for you for getting there, and then to the next place of honesty with self and honesty within the relationship. Another huge step.
And then, yes, and yikes, the next step-- even bigger. The action thing. I'm just so so not action oriented. So it's really wise of you to break the action further down, so you can truly see how your internal shifting is in itself an action-- getting to where your needs are known to you and respected by you. I believe this is the kind of action I can set my mind too. Although even that is hard, just by force of habit and life circumstances.
This circles back into my ever-developing understanding of my TMS. One of the central underlying issues for me is a deep-seated feeling of not being listened to, fostered in my childhood and running as a thread through my adult life to date (a long time already!). I set up all sorts of psychological defenses as a child to defend against this basic reality-- I stopped assuming I had needs, for instance; I made it my business to serve everyone else's needs, for another instance. If I worked at having nothing in particular to say, you see, then the fact that no one listened to me wouldn't matter. Right? (Yeah, I know-- wrong. But little did I know at the time.)
So I got to thinking about how I had essentially trained myself not to listen to my feelings and emotions. (The Alice Miller book, I can see, just from the first couple of dozen pages I've read, has a lot to say about this.) These feelings and emotions began expressing themselves through my body. I can look back now at things I experienced begin back in my early 20s (TMJ, knee pain, shoulder pain) and see that it's probably been TMS all along.
And in those years, it was, most definitely, a distraction: I was not ready to plumb the depths of my soul, basically. I had trained myself not to listen to my feelings, but I very attentively listened to my body. Rather than tend to the serious flaws in my primary relationship, I tended to my knee problem. Later on, it would be intermittent--and at the time very mysterious--shoulder pain.
It was never so serious as to require medical attention, or maybe I just hate going to the doctor :). It was an annoyance in my life, and a big-time distraction. I never went to look for the emotions that were there. So the physical symptoms effectively served to continue my self-inflicted program of not listening to myself emotionally.
Over the course of the last 10 years, a big change. Much therapy, much introspection, and much inner listening on my own behalf. All happening, however, in the context of a life circumstance established under the "old rules," as it were. I've learned more and more about all this, growing more and more bereft at my seeming inability to act on my own behalf and change anything.
Enter my current bout of TMS, all the lower back and hip pain and stiffness. And I believe it is not here this time to distract me but rather to reinforce what I've uncovered psychologically without being able- yet- to do anything. It's almost as if I grew so accustomed to pushing down emotions that even when I spent a lot of time and energy looking into them and understanding them, they still felt dulled, they still lacked the sharpness required to motivate change. My therapist has assured me that people in general are motivated by strong emotions: usually, in the context of relationship, anger.
Being perhaps still unable to tap into that, because of my basic personality, the TMS comes along and expresses it for me. I may be able to "ignore" my anger, but I can't ignore my lower back pain. And maybe working in conjunction with it, some real action will emerge. I agree with the assessment that I am unlikely to lose my physical symptoms before I make some changes. So at this point, I do, I see the symptoms as provoking me in a way, perhaps, that my emotions never consciously could. Either that or, in doing all the TMS work, I'll finally and deeply start experiencing some of the emotions, which will then also begin to provoke change. I imagine it'll be a mix.
It all sounds sort of scary. But I finally feel a bit readier than ever before to push through some scary stuff. Because hiding from all that isn't really living, I finally see.
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2008 : 00:31:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy
... One of the central underlying issues for me is a deep-seated feeling of not being listened to, fostered in my childhood and running as a thread through my adult life to date (a long time already!). I set up all sorts of psychological defenses as a child to defend against this basic reality-- I stopped assuming I had needs, for instance; I made it my business to serve everyone else's needs, for another instance. If I worked at having nothing in particular to say, you see, then the fact that no one listened to me wouldn't matter. Right? (Yeah, I know-- wrong. But little did I know at the time.)
... I've learned more and more about all this, growing more and more bereft at my seeming inability to act on my own behalf and change anything.
Jeremy, you’ve described me very accurately. After a childhood of being totally afraid to express any needs, I did make some effort to do that in my first marriage, but when it ended I thought that I would never be able to maintain a relationship unless I made my needs secondary. If they didn’t conflict with anyone else’s, they might get met, but otherwise I’d have to be satisfied with whatever I got. There have been issues I’ve brought up before in this relationship, but after they’ve been brushed aside a few times I’ve given up.
I understand the feeling that a different environment might make it much easier to grow away from these old patterns. When people are used to us behaving a certain way and we try to change, they can be very determined to maintain the status quo. My husband’s needs come out of the fears from his own background, and right now he doesn’t want to be forced to look at them or do anything differently. Of course, that’s because we’ve both been putting his needs first.
quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
... In fact, that first action of changing how you react, how you take care of yourself, is what I'm working on right now. It has been a big step for me. The first step was awareness, but I had gotten a bit stuck on that step. I was knowing what I was feeling, but I wasn't acting on it. I wasn't disengaging from dysfunctional situations, I wasn't bringing up things that bothered me. I've been working on it the past few weeks and seen that it is a huge, hard, and scary step. So far it's turned out pretty positively. There's an honesty with myself and the beginnings of that honesty in the relationship that I've never felt before. It's so different I never even knew what I was missing until I felt it.
But for me there is also even one more step, and that's deciding, once I feel like I've gotten closer to where I want to be, whether the situations and relationships I'm in are fulfilling my emotional needs, now that my needs are known to me and respected by me. So the personal change part is the first step, but I do think there's a second step. We'll all get to the steps we need to be at when we're ready, if we keep advancing our respect and caring for ourselves.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment.
ACL, it was really encouraging for me to read this from you. How I would love to be able to develop real honesty in my relationships! Knowing about your efforts and success helps me feel like I can get there. And I think I’m finally getting to the point where if respecting and caring for my own needs damages some relationships, I’m not going to let the fear of that possibility stop me. Thanks so much for sharing that!
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Dr. Leonard-Segal in TDM and "not distraction"
