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MRosenthal
USA
30 Posts |
 Posted - 12/04/2004 : 08:24:16
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| Yesterday I was told that my friend's mother is having surgery for degenerative disk disease. Her back was actually bulging out in the back of her neck from the swollen disk area. How the heck is that TMS. The disks have deteriorated over time and they said she may become paralyzed if they don't operate. TMS? That was a huge step back for me hearing that last night. I am back to square one with believing in this stuff. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 08:57:02
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I don't spar with people any more,so I'll keep this short.
I am a HUGE fan of science,particularly physics and astronomy.
The rule of thumb in science is: If ANY phenomenon can NOT be explained by the theory,than you have to start over OR expand your theory.
A good example was Einsteins "Cosmological constant"....Relativity theory mathematically implies that the universe must either A.Be in constant motion or B.Implode in on itself
Well,we are not all compressed into a pinhead so....:
Einstein wrote a weighty and cumbersome explanation of how gravity works backwards at long distances...he called it "action at a distance"...it was very tedious compared with the simple beauty of relativity theory
When Hubble and Humason discovered the red shift of virtually all galaxies in the universe,and subsequent scientists came to agree on the "big bang" and various versions of expansion theory,Einstein was a bit embarassed and dropped the Cosmological constant from his theory...he was a theoretical Physicist,not a mathematician or observational astronomer.
Your friends Mothers plight proves "medieval" medical models as well as the presents under the tree prove there is or isn't a Santa Claus.....Oh yeah..I'm ALSO supposed to be in Jeopardy of becoming paralyzed if I ever run,twist,turn.yada yada yada....
I'll outrun ANY neurosurgeon with a cigarette hanging from my lips.....
I feel bad for you......you come here because you want to be well.You must be in pain....Nobody would ever waste the time if they weren't,and your pain is real...but you spend all your energy trying to tell world travelers that the world is round...I've been around the world too many times.
I hope you find what you're looking for.
Peace
Baseball65
Baseball65 |
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MRosenthal
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 09:38:14
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| Thank you for avoiding a simple explanation. All I wanted was for someone to tell me that big bulge coming out of the skin is just TMS. |
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polly
127 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 09:59:48
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MRosenthal,
Nobody ever said that everything is TMS. It seems like you're looking for things to prove TMS doesn't exist instead of finding a way to help yourself. You can do whatever you want and believe whatever you want. I just spoke with Sarno about an orthopedic problem I'm having and he said that's not TMS, offered me sympathy and
wished me luck.
If you're trying to prove to yourself that this is hogwash, you will. You're friend's mother's diagnosis that you got third hand if your gift back into the world of shots, pills, surgeries and the like. We all find what we want and need at some point.
I hope you rethink some of this for yourself. I've read your other posts and think that you know that doing the work required will bring you relief. Maybe you're not ready. I have a friend that went to see Sarno years ago and got nothing out of it. A few weeks ago I gave her a copy of MBP and she started getting better within days. It's all timing sometimes.
I hope you, your friend and his mother are well.
Polly |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 10:07:11
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Oh ,you want it simple?
OK...The bulging disc in her neck is bulging disc.The bulging discs in my back are also bulging,along with the missing vertebrae,birth defect,and my leg that is 1.25"-1.75" longer than the other.
My MRI's are not TMS,nor is your buddies Mom.
TMS is our conversion of these normal degenerative changes into Physical symptoms.
But....
You know what..you're RIGHT...This is definitely a HUGE event that has proved Sarno wrong.Please forward the name and address of her surgeon so I may have all these structural problems of mine dealt with ASAP!!
My back is Killing me....I was just deluded,now I see the truth!!
Thank you for illuminating our misguided selves.
I am selling all my Baseball gear,weights and my bike on eBay,and am asking Santa Claus for a new crutch,Lumbar support belt and a Lazy boy recliner.I have to be a lot more careful now that Sarno has been proven wrong!
Gotta'now and tell my boss that I can't come to work monday.
What was I thinking?!?!?
Thanks
Marc
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Suzanne
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 12:29:46
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I don't get into tiffs on boards, but I do want to put in my 2 cents.
I can feel a huge lump where my TMS comes from (piriformis? Levator Ani? Not sure, but I and specialists all feel the tightness and how big an area it is). The muscles are in complete spasm. It's only on the left side. If it's very severe, it's obvious visually in my lower back, because then it spreads upwards. I was told I have disk degeneration — L5, S1. CT scan said so ;) That's *normal* for a 38 yr. old. But the doc didn't say it was normal and suggested all sorts of crazy things. The mass even showed up on MRI. Luckily the tech who read the film said that it was only a spasm caught in the act.
For 2 years I had no relief EVER, no matter where I was, when, etc. I finally saw Dr. Sarno and was diagnosed with TMS. The next vacation I took, it all WENT AWAY. No lump in my left buttock. No lower back bump (muscle knot). No pain at all. Came home, it all came back. I can feel both sides at the same time and feel the left side is a big hard lump, but not the right side. The same thing happened for the next 6 times I went away on trips. No pain, no muscle spasms. No visual lumps, no tightness when feeling around for it. Nothing. One 12 day trip was amazing. Not one sign of anything. On the plane home, the closer we got to the airport, the more symptoms I felt. Hour One, no pain. Hour 5, 50% and growing. In the front door to home, and bam, back to the same ol' — big rock hard lump below, and knotty bump in my lower back.
Prior to my TMS dx, every doc I saw said I had something different. Even my neurologist prescribed Neurontin and wanted me in PT. Now, that same neurologist sends people to Dr. Sarno when he finds no logical explanation for pain, spasms and other conditions. I didn't mention Dr. Sarno to him. He came across him himself.
My internist used to be baffled by my symptoms and suggest pain management. I saw him last week because I was in a car accident. He said that had I not found Dr. Sarno, I would be a mess. He said I'd have either been sliced and diced, or possibly in a wheelchair by now from Fibro dx's and all the drugs.
My TMS took a hike after the accident. It came back once I knew I was not seriously injured. As I said before, it goes away when I go away. My spine, my back, my muscles, etc. don't know what state or country I'm in and when, so the fact it goes away when I go away proves that TMS exists 110%. Only my mind knows. As for the accident, I was far too distracted by the car accident for my mind to play the TMS game on me. Once things calmed down, it saw an open window to hop back into.
My car accident was 3 weeks ago this weekend. My car is totalled and I'm stressed out of my mind by the insurance co. and paperwork and lack of tranportation, lack of money and so on. Funny, my TMS is worse now. It's not from the car accident, not a physical injury. I didn't smack my butt up. I injured my neck and shoulders. Yet by left side muscles in the butt area are knots like rocks, and my very low back is little spasm balls. The doctor I saw for no fault a few days ago said "Neck and shoulders, car accident. Low back and butt, stress. You need a vacation." |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 13:41:32
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Of course, there are cases of disease and injury that are not TMS. Dr. Sarno's makes this very important point at the beginning of his books. One must rule out real, physical causes. While swelling is not conclusive either way, it is certainly possible that your friend's mother's neck problem is physical.
On the other hand, there is a good chance that other physical diagnoses such as herniated discs and osteoarthritis are made in cases where the true cause of pain is TMS. Herniated discs and osteoarthritis do not necessarily cause pain.
In any event, it is clear that you are approaching the TMS theory from the wrong angle, that is, assuming the theory is wrong and demanding evidence to prove otherwise. With your attitude there is no hope for successful treatment. Unless you can modify your way of thinking (and it may well be that you can't) then you will probably remain in pain. |
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plainchant
41 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2004 : 13:43:07
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| I think this guy is goofing around. |
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floridaboy
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2004 : 05:09:04
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| Baseball65...God I love you man! You kill me. Great posts. |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2004 : 10:04:39
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"I'll outrun ANY neurosurgeon with a cigarette hanging from my lips....."
oh man, that's a good one. i'm with you on that. i'll outrun him with a cigarette and a drink in my hand! |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 20:13:01
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Oh, my gosh! You guys are too much! I agree with Dave in that you probably won't get better with your perspective on Dr. Sarno. You are definitely a "glass half empty" type of personality and I can see why you probably have TMS to begin with. I also agree with you, Polly, that timing is everything. I first read Sarno's books five years ago and didn't really apply the methods and didn't give it much hope. You get desperate enough when you are in misery and you'll give things another shot. Or, maybe you are like a friend of mine who believes it's all hogwash and remains in her "fibromyalgia" misery, running from doctor to doctor, having test after test, and never getting any closer to feeling any better. Some people are just too narrowminded to accept Dr. Sarno's theory. Either that or they enjoy all the busyness of running around to doctors and trying new procedures. My doctors told me there was nothing they could do for my vertigo and that I'd just have to live with it. It has only improved since I have applied Dr. Sarno's theories. Nothing you or my friend say will make me feel any different. Maybe you should just have surgery because it doesn't sound like your mind is open to what Dr. Sarno has to offer. I'm not trying to be mean -- it sounds like you are really pissed off and need to vent. But for those of us who are getting well from applying Dr. Sarno's theories I don't think it helps us to read that everything we are invested in is all a bunch of b.s. Just a thought.
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2004 : 20:29:04
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| it took me about three tries before Sarno really hit me. for many people, they need a complete shift of consiousness in order to get it...which often means being completely desperate. the time that it finally came clear to me, i broke out in hives as i was reading MBP and my back pain disappered. i still struggle with my LBP, but it's about 60/70% better than it ever was going through the nightmare of traditional back care. there is no proof beyond a reasonable for anything in life, including this. |
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A huge event proving Sarno is wrong!
