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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
 Posted - 11/28/2007 : 08:28:07
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I continue to have relatively mild pain that moves between neck, back etc, but believe it is TMS and therefore for many months have not been to a PT or chiro or anyone etc and really things are nowhere near as bad as they once were. I have made progress. I feel I am aware of the long list of things that make me angry and do not want to see a therapist but today I suddenly realised that I kind of missed my PT. While I do not think seeing her helped me as I have TMS, I liked the attention, I liked the massage (even if it did no long term good)and I suppose I liked having someone to moan about my symptoms to on a regular basis. I know I am meant to ignore the pain and think about what is causing it or think about anything but the pain. I know when I did obsess about the physical/pain (which i still can to some extent despite my best efforts)my husband found it frustrating which in turn made me frustrated at not being listened to in a caring way. I love my husband dearly but we have dealt with my TMS differently and I can see how frustrating I used to be. Because of TMS I never say how I physically feel and no one asks, though I suppose I would not say anyway because I believe there is nothing wrong and as a goodist hate to moan in public. I suppose I wonder if I can beat TMS when things are stressful as they are now (friends' bereavement,a lot to do at work etc,) My PT was positive when I used to go and listened to my pains and I suppose it was nice. Dealing with TMS is something I have to do myself and that can feel a bit lonely, though there is this board to make me feel less alone in this.
Hope you all do not mind the moan and maybe understand.
Lizzie |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 08:56:35
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ahhhhh...the soothe/rage ratio that Sarno discusses briefly (too brief) in MBP.
Sarno stated that like a wgt scale (libra) if the stresses outweigh the soothes (is that a word ) then wallah, symptoms!
You were being soothed at PT.
While it's great your'e out of the conventional enviornment, you found a gap where you realize you need time for yourself and that includes someone you can confide in and talk to on a regular basis who doe'snt share the same stresses and burdens you do like your husband. (perhaps this is how affairs start so make sure it's a professional whatever of some sort, gym personal trainer, pedicurist, massagist, guitar teacher...etc so your hubby is cool w/ it)
Dr. Dave in his book actually prescribes 5hrs a week where stressed out people pleasers include themselves on the list of people to please and have found this to reduce/eliminate stress illness.
I used to hate how much my wife would spend to get her hair "did" (slang for you hip hoppers) 4 times a year. But now I get it, it's her time to sit there and get pampered, discuss the latest gossip w/ the hairdresser, and then come home feel great about herself. And then it's the topic of discussion for her and her friends for a week or two. Mentally, shes a different person after getting her hair did. Nothing else in her life changed, it did'nt give her a raise, it did'nt quiet the kids any more, there's still bills to pay, but she was soothed.....oh, she looks hot too!
I found PT pleasurable after shoulder surgery (that I'm not sure I ever needed now). It was a relaxed nice enviornement where I was able to escape the wifey and kiddos and pump blood into my muscles w/ soft pop music in the backround. Then I'd be iced, and heat wrapped and forced to relax w/ a nice magazine.
I missed it so much, I joined a gym afterwards |
Edited by - skizzik on 11/28/2007 09:08:22 |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 09:36:32
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I can totally relate to this. I have COMPLETELY stopped talking about any of my symptoms, because it never did any good anyway (people just ignore you if you have chronic stuff). Now it's "don't ask, don't tell" around here.
And I recently realized that one of the ONLY things in my life that provides soothe was the one thing I stopped doing because of finances. That's taking myself out to breakfast once or twice a week. I've started doing it again because i realized what a negative effect that loss of soothe was causing. My level of rage is way too high and out of balance with soothe input, and I absolutely cannot decrease soothe input or I'm going to lose the battle.
I've had PT twice (torn foot tendon and knee surgery), and I know what you mean about the positive attention. |
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AnthonEE
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 10:17:06
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I find that talking to my girlfriend about my various aches and pains is totally unproductive, worse it's counterproductive. I get nothing much back from it, and it serves to fuel my obsession with physical pain and disability. But it also puts strain on the relationship because she's not sure what to say or do that would help, and quite frankly she gets tired of hearing it. So all I've ever asked is that she listen and show some genuine concern for my well being. Maybe even ask me out of the blue one time per week, or month, or ever, how I'm doing. But either she doesn't know how to show it in a way that I understand (because maybe she can't fully relate?) or maybe she's just not that interested. I'm not sure. But I have definitely learned from direct experience that I need to abstain from these complaints. Jeez, I even need to refrain from positive comments relating to my physical health because she even seems to take that wrong too. So... it's really not easy. Maybe she's the perfect girl for a TMS guy like me, she simply will not acknowledge the physical. Even still, I bottle it up and/or find another outlet.
So that's one of the primary benefits or comforts (soothes?) I've found in journaling. It's a little empty compared to interaction with another person. But I've found that, aside from my own mother, people really do not like to discuss these physical problems. They really don't. You'd think it was like discussing politics at the dinner table. It usually goes over like a fart in church, and I find that frustrating, and a little bit lonely. So this board is a great outlet, as long as the discussion steers away from commiseration or unproductive complaining. And the journaling is great outlet that I've found helpful, if only to have a place to tell my story in my words. It really seems to help, and I often look forward to it.
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catwilliams
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 10:21:59
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Lizzie,
I think virtually all of us COMPLETELY understand how you are feeling.
I think the real question is how you can feel heard, 'soothed', etc. without continuing the pain cycle? I know for sure that if you continue to discuss it, feel it, talk about it, and need an outlet to talk about it, then the TMS is WORKING as a disctraction and it will continue. Carl Jung once said, "What you Resist, Persists" and I believe it!!
If you can lose the hangup around having a therapist then I cant imagine a better person to chat with about everything. Or consider keeping a daily journal, or a best friend, clergyperson, parent, someone who you can talk with briefly each day. My caveat would be to stress that you focus on talking about your progress, your sources of stress, and the feelings there, instead of talking about the pain symptoms.
Another idea is to get a TMS doctor - Dr. Sarno has a couple docs who train with him and have written books, etc. and most will consult on phone, over email, or in person. I am happy to refer you to the 'legitimate' ones if you would like. Having a 'doctor' on board with me when I was kicking meds and going through the acute phase of the transition was a huge benefit.
I wish you the best of luck - I think you are in the hardest phase, where the initial excitement of your diagnosis has worn off and you have to constantly 're-excite' yourself while continuing to feel achy pain cycles. Best of luck,
Catharine
Be Well! |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2007 : 11:05:13
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The rage/soothe ratio is definitely under-discussed. I know I missed my 'therapists' (chiro, etc) after I stopped seeing them. I am seeing an actual therapist (emotional) now, which is a good thing on many counts. But I also do a lot of small 'soothes'. If there is a nice smell of bread on my walk, or it is sunny and crisp, I really focus for a bit on enjoying it. If I really want some coffee from a coffee place, or not to make lunch one day and go out instead, I do that. If I am tired and want to stay in bed and read all day on a Sunday, I sometimes do that! If there is a cute dog or cat, I talk to it. That sort of thing. It is very small, but it can make a big difference. I'm not inclined to go overboard with that sort of thing (few people with TMS are, I think -- we are not a self-indulgent lot or we would not have TMS!) so it works out well.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 04:44:47
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Thanks to all who replied. I feel listened to by you all today. There was so much I understood from your replies. I think you all hit the nail on the head as I has masses of stresses going on currently and although I am pleased this has not resulted in a "TMS episode" there are few opportunities for soothe!Added to which the past three days have been misty and wet which means very little light all day outside so there has been less soothe of the type armchairlinguist suggests. Today however it is sunny, so I shall go for a walk at lunchtime and treat myself to something that catches my eye! Sounds selfish in print (risk of guilt creeping in!!), but it's medicinal spending after all. Ooh I like the sound of that, medicinal spending...doing me good..got to be done...no guilt!
Lizzie |
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mamaboulet
181 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 07:05:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Lizzie
Thanks to all who replied. I feel listened to by you all today. There was so much I understood from your replies. I think you all hit the nail on the head as I has masses of stresses going on currently and although I am pleased this has not resulted in a "TMS episode" there are few opportunities for soothe!Added to which the past three days have been misty and wet which means very little light all day outside so there has been less soothe of the type armchairlinguist suggests. Today however it is sunny, so I shall go for a walk at lunchtime and treat myself to something that catches my eye! Sounds selfish in print (risk of guilt creeping in!!), but it's medicinal spending after all. Ooh I like the sound of that, medicinal spending...doing me good..got to be done...no guilt!
Lizzie
A very smart person once told me that certain personality types don't give enough to THEMSELVES, and that these personality types need to see themselves as a "creditor" who is OWED something. You OWE yourself those soothes. No guilt needed. There is a huge cosmic debt of soothe that needs to be delivered to the perfectionists/goodists of the world, and nobody is going to deliver it but ourselves. Now get out there and seek your soothe! |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 07:39:28
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Thanks Mamaboulet
The soothe I bought was chocolate, not the cheap type but the hand made SOOTHE type and not just one lot but four! Suppose its the Ferrari next? (just joking.. do not think that would provide soothe!)
Lizzie |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2007 : 11:47:22
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Hey Lizzie,
Something struck me while reading your posts. I went and took a look over about 10 other of your posts.
Some observations:
You seem to apologize alot.
You make sure to "thank" everyone for their posts.
You seem to feel guilty all the time.
You're a busy mom, and you wrestle w/ what your husband wants to do..
And you brushed off your Mom getting re-married by saying "oh well, mum needs to be happy too" or something like that.
My take on all this:
You are absolutely SEETHING inside! |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 03:04:48
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Gosh...strange to read about yourself like that! I do not feel seething because I suppose as a goodist seething is not good so I try not to encourage/acknowledge it. Last night for example I was at a business dinner and was stuck sitting next to an obnoxious, arrogant man. I was so polite to his face, then on the way home stated to a colleague about how I found this person so conceited and unpleasant. And yes you guessed it, this morning I felt guilty about what I had said and about therefore not being nice or tolerant. I suppose I have an ideal image of how I would like to be or feel I ought to be and do not measure up to this. This is self imposed pressure, but as to seething, that is not how I want to be. The idea of seething is so destructive (hence TMS I suppose) but Sarno says you do not have to change your ways/personality just acknowledge them as the cause of TMS and it is knowledge that is your cure, but what if you do not like this knowledge? What if you do not like what you find out about yourself? Does that add to the reservoir?
Lizzie |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 04:11:47
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quote:
There is a huge cosmic debt of soothe that needs to be delivered to the perfectionists/goodists of the world, and nobody is going to deliver it but ourselves. Now get out there and seek your soothe!
Ah - what a relief to read this.
I am going through a hard time, and got up at 3 in the morning feeling anxious and variously TMSing, and was very very pleased to read this.
When I have broken out in tears about my pain and exhaustion that have recently seemed to take over my life, and asked myself "what is it?" a voice has come out saying "I want my mummy!" Almost immediately, especially if there is someone there (I do have compassionate friends thank God), I say, "Well, I don't mean I want the mummy I had, but I want A mummy."
My mummy wasn't very motherly, to put it mildly, and now she is in her final decline in which she is needing love and care and nurturing from me and my sister. Although I am doing my best, and have gone over to England many times and am going again soon, I find it quite enraging the way she demands what she didn't give. I notice I feel guilty saying this. I feel that I am making a fuss, and shouldn't have these feelings, which is exactly the message she gave me.
I feel like I need tons of soothing, but a lot of my usual methods don't work when I am this exhausted, lying on the couch in pain. I am also aware that in a way I am trying to take myself out of having to take care of mom, although I will anyway when the time comes.
So all that is one of the causes of my current outbreak of "illness." My sister, on the other hand, has manifested a one in a million form of cancer. She is overtly enraged about my mom's demands, and by many things she has said, seems to be taking herself out of responsibility to my mom also. The weird thing is that my mom has early (and getting later) Alzheimers, and doesn't seem to remember about my sister's illness.
Mom also has never believed in my illness, from childhood. She called me a hypochondriac when I was a little girl. It was probably true, but if my childhood symptoms were coming from emotions, I needed some love and soothing, not to be told it wasn't real. It certainly didn't work to tell me my symptoms weren't real - they just became more virulent and insistent.
I think so much of my rage comes, basically, from not feeling soothed, nurtured and loved by my mother as a child.
Thanks for all being here.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
Edited by - Wavy Soul on 11/30/2007 04:14:13 |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 04:26:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Lizzie
as to seething, that is not how I want to be. The idea of seething is so destructive......... but what if you do not like this knowledge? What if you do not like what you find out about yourself? Does that add to the reservoir?
Lizzie
Yeah...I think that IS the reservoir. Not the seething, but the conflict of seething.
Its taken me a while. But...I'm realizing that HATE is just a normal emotion as LOVE. As we have become a society however, our minds have realized that if we lash out our hate as we feel it, there w/b no society. Just anarchy.
So over the eons, thru the way we are raised we are taught from a young age to be NICE, LOVING, CARING...ETC
Then society/parents tell us not to hate, not to lash out, turn the other cheek, take the high road, ignore unpleasent thoughts, if you have nothing nice to say....etc
Well, what do we have? our PERFECTLY NATURAL INSTINCTIVE EMOTION TO HATE is now REPRESSED.
I used to take pride that I was a nice guy. I used to get compliments for never complaining.
No wonders I've suffered from everything mentioned on this board at one time or another.
No one on this board is suggesting you walk up to those, and tell them you hate them, but until you acknowledge that HATE is as natural as LOVE then you will continue to feel guilty all the time.
Can you acknowledge in your journal how much you hate 3 people in your life? Write down all the hate, you will probably flow out a repressed 10 pages. Perhaps you were afraid to do this because you feared someone would find your writings. Just write it and toss it. You don't have to tell the people you hate them to neutralize it, just let it flow out your hand, not into the body.
When I journal now, I sometimes put "this is the inner kid in me talking." This helps take away the guilt. Then I write as if I'm a child and journal how much I hate some people for what they did to me.
BaseBall65 who had perhaps one of the best recoveries on the board would write about what he'd like to do to some people and this relieved him. He never would of course (hurt anyone), but now those thoughts were neutralized.
Lizzie, I would love to see where your symptoms w/b a month from now if you could channel out the repressed hate from your back or wherever out through your arm on to paper.
Try writing at the top of the page you plan to throw away or not, "no apologies, no more guilt, I'm pleasing me now. Its not my fault that I hate" and have a go at it.
Write how you hate/resent your husband, kids, Mom. Dr. Dave/Sarno tells us that resentment builds when we please everyone as we get older and unconciously see that we did'nt get this kind of treatment when we were growing up and that resentment thanx to our clever minds of keeping the peace gets repressed. BUT IT HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE!!!
I don't know what kind of journaling you've been doing, but if you've been doing the work w/ no resolution, then you have to be missing something per every guru (Sarno, Rostocki, Sopher etc) out there. You know definition of insanity and all that (doing the same thing over and over and getting the same result).
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 09:16:38
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What do you make of this? I have had only mild pain and no major episode since early September but after reading Skizzik's reply an hour before and returning home after a very stressful week and glad to have got to Friday, my back spasms up big time! I feel so annoyed with my body, myself and TMS for playing so appallingly with my life. I deserve a good weekend. I knew this week was stressful and returned to the forum more this week to help prevent pain by keeping up my TMS understanding. That was conscious!I will go and write down all this anger and guilt looking back at previous posts but I do envy those who appear symptom free and I do fear my abililty to tell this episode to go away (stronger words uttered under my breath!) and am finding it hard to ignore this pain. So how did it start...well I did some daily stretches I enjoy so when it hurt/spasmed I simply carried on and repeated the stretches thinking that would challenge the pain to go away/pit battle against it, but it did not. The spasm intensified and I felt so annoyed, frustrated and a little fearful. TMS is awful!
Now what! I suppose i know the answer: find some soothes (but even they are not so much fun when in pain), talk to my brain and carry on. Should I try the stretches again yet? I envy Dr Brady and his ability to carry on playing golf in pain until the pain went away. I lack that kind of courage.
I do not think I have ever written so much on the board in such a short space of time.Funny it should lead to an episode. It can't be coincidental but it is maddening!
Lizzie |
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campbell28
80 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2007 : 14:48:49
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it sounds like maybe your back is acting up to stop you thinking about exactly the stuff that skizzik wrote about. it is definitely doesn't feel nice acknowledging that you can feel really strong anger, hatred, resentment to people you are close to - but it is totally normal. I have always wanted everyone to like me, been nice to people, excused other's bad behaviour but felt guilty about my own, tried to live up to very high standards etc etc.
Since doing all the TMS work i have realised that inside I really was seething, and was actually really angry and resentful towards various people. This is a very hard thing to acknowledge if you think of yourself as a 'nice' person - but it is absolutely normal. I have realised that it is OK for me to have really nasty feelings about people I love. It is much much better for you to acknowledge the feelings, write them down or just accept them, than to try and igonre them because it doesn't fit with your ' nice' image of yourself.
I reckon maybe you have started to get closer to acknowledging and maybe even experiencing those feelings, and so your back is acting up to distract you. And it is very effective, because now you are thinking about how awful TMS is and what a difficult thing it is to deal with, rather than the nasty feelings you don't want to deal with yet. just keep telling yourself it is really OK to think awful things about people! and do write them down if you can - you can rip them up / burn them straight away. |
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samchar1
United Kingdom
11 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2007 : 10:01:45
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Hi
I am new to the site but live in england yorkshire i am i think a goodist like you and i was wondering how you are getting on with TMS and the Sarno approach. My pain is my leg and bum had it for 12mths.
kuk yorkshire |
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Lizzie
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2007 : 05:55:07
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Hi Samchar
If you are in Yorkshire I think there is a a physio in Huddersfield who specialises in TMS. Dr Sopher mentioned her but I am sure if you google you should find her. She might be able to help. I do not live near Yorkshire so can not vouch for her.
How am I getting on...well on a positive I know episodes are always related to stressful times and they generally do not last very long since discovering the theories of TMS. TMS makes so much sense. I have made progress but think I am my own worst enemy sometimes at making total progress. That is why dropping into this forum helps. I receive encouragement here and know I am not alone with TMS.
Good luck!
Lizzie
PS:Samchar...take it you are a tea drinker! |
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qso
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 22:11:02
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Dear Lizzie and everyone,
I think I have made a breakthrough 3 weeks ago which could give you virtually instant relief. For a year I had TMS from the neck down to the legs and in the worst episodes could not sit or stand for more than 10-15 minutes. I spent most of the year looking at ceilings - you all know what it's like. I knew about TMS for years before I had it so when I did get it I thought I knew what to do. I turned the house of my mind upside down and spent a lot of time on "issues" of the mind. I even did some deep meditation and uncovered distrurbing childhood experiences that I didn't even know about. But still no relief.
I got on a plane to San Diego 3 weeks ago, concerned about the journey and could barely lift 5 pounds and had to ask people to lift my luggage. However by the time I arrived in San Diego I was lifting my own luggage off the carousel and since then have been walking, sitting and driving for hours everyday and this week picked up my 50-pound son for the first time in a year. I am free and the TMS is never coming back (it tries to sometimes -but
you can stop that-see later).
So what happened on that plane? In a nutshell, when my conviction that I have no physical injury or damage turned to 100% the TMS melted away. 99.99% is not good enough. It must be total and utter belief, deep down. You won't even have to tell your subconscious when you reach that 100% -it will know before you are aware. That means you can't fake it. Nobody can do that for you. That also means that you must believe deep down that none of the physical treatments are going to fix you. You must believe that you excercise because it is good for you anyway, not because it is going to fix you. If you have massage therapy you must believe deep down that you are getting it because it is nice and that it is not going to fix you. Getting physiptherapy is not consistent with 100% belief and your subconscious knows it. Your subconscious wants you to be in no doubt that your pain is due to it trying to communicate with you. Once you submit 100% it will let go of you. You will no longer be imprisoned in your own body.
I didn't even have to resolve any emotional issues - indeed from the menu of items I don't even know which of them caused my TMS. Nothing about my issues changed on that plane journey. The only thing that changed was my 99% conviction (that my subconscious is trying to communicate with me) turned to 100%. I was reading Fred Amir's book, and half way through I knew something fundamental had happened. Here's an analogy: a baby that is crying before it can speak: you don't know what it wants but often just picking it up will stop the crying.
To help you reach that
100% level think about how your TMS episodes are totally at odds with physical injuries-
they heal in weeks. Sudden reversals as in TMS do not happen with physical injuries. Think about really unfit people who do no excercise and yet are living in blissful normality having no problems sitting or standing. People who are cut open with major surgery are running about after a month yet TMS goes on and on and on. My Dad who had heart procedures done was in better shape than me and he is more than twenty years older! It just doesn't add up.
Here's another often neglected factor but Sarno has mentioned it many times. The subconscious does not have a concept of time. It does not know past or future. Therefore things that happened to you in childhood are as if they are happening now. The downside is that all your issues accumulate from birth. The upside is that you can console the child *now*. When you reach that 100% conviction you should console the child. You can do this in general terms. Imagine yourself meeting the younger you (not sure what age is appropriate but just let your thoughts flow and a vision of a younger you will come...hang on to it). Tell the child that you know life has not turned out the way you expected but don't worry, you are here for you now, no need to be afraid now, you are listening and you will protect (the younger) you. However, this consoling will have no effect until you reach the 100% conviction because your subconscious will know that it (and that includes the you at every age from birth) does not have your undivided attention. The consoling will be most important for fighting off the twinges that come after your intial relief, as the subconscious tries to test your 100% conviction.
I hope this helps you all, it is still unbelievable how I got my life back in a matter of hours.
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qso
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2007 : 23:24:03
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All,
I forgot to say that taking pain killers is also not consistent with 100% conviction so they will hinder you. I never took any because of the side effects and it never made any sense anyway, in terms of finding the root cause of the problem.
QSO |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 03:51:16
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BREAKTHROUGH ALERT
Check out this post above by qso in which he (she?) has a big TMS breakthrough in a few hours!
Thanks - this was very helpful
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2007 : 10:14:54
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12/30/2007 : 23:24:03
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All,
I forgot to say that taking pain killers is also not consistent with 100% conviction so they will hinder you. I never took any because of the side effects and it never made any sense anyway, in terms of finding the root cause of the problem.
QSO
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I purchased the video put out by Dr. Sarno- The Mindbody Prescription.
In it, the question is posed to him- "What do you do when the pain is really bad?"
His response is to take painkillers and continue working the program.
Has Sarno changed his mind? Would he approve of something if it hindered recovery? |
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Anyone FELT like this?
